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Q: When making a Shooting attack against a unit, can Wounds
from the Wound Pool be allocated to models that were not within
range any of the shooting models when To Hit rolls were made (i.e.
half the targeted model are in the shooting models’ range, and half
are not)? (p15)
A: No.


am i reading this right? if only 5 models in a 20 man squad are within range of my guns i can't harm the rest of the squad like i've always been to? is that right?

I think so, that is how it sounds. No longer can you measure to be just in range of the first bloke and then let rip on his mates.

So..... flamers suck now?

How does that work with blast markers, if the centre is just within weapon range?

The weapon range is measured from the barrel, and models out of that range can not be wounded no matter how many were under the marker?

Polecat wrote:
How does that work with blast markers, if the centre is just within weapon range?

The weapon range is measured from the barrel, and models out of that range can not be wounded no matter how many were under the marker?

I'll take a stab at this. With blast it'll be place the marker in range, roll for scatter, determine how many hits have been done, roll to wound and then start removing models that are in range and LOS until you run out of models in range or wounds to take.

I may of course be completely wrong here.
*EDIT* Ignore me, LThanatos has the rule below.

This entry is only making reference to "rolling to hit" so blasts and templates are excluded from this restriction.

Polecat wrote:
How does that work with blast markers, if the centre is just within weapon range?

The weapon range is measured from the barrel, and models out of that range can not be wounded no matter how many were under the marker?

Blast special rule:

Note that it is possible, and absolutely fine, for a shot to scatter beyond the weapon's maximum or minimum range and line of sight. This represents the chance of ricochets, the missile blasdng through cover and other random events. In these cases, hits are worked out as normal and can hitand wound units out of range and line of sight (or even your own units, or models locked in combat)

What about units with mixed weapons? For example a tactical squad with 24" bolters and a 48" missile launcher: can the bolters suddenly cause wounds outside their 24" range (as long as there is at least one model within 24") because of the range of the missile launcher? Doesn't seem to be in spirit of the rule.

this Faq that is actually and errata is going to take a lot more F.a.q (cough cough) to fix it. I'm sure there are a lot more questions to come. this is fantastic.

jayjester wrote:So..... flamers suck now?

Not necessarily. You just need at least one shooting model that has a further range

Redemption wrote:What about units with mixed weapons? For example a tactical squad with 24" bolters and a 48" missile launcher: can the bolters suddenly cause wounds outside their 24" range (as long as there is at least one model within 24") because of the range of the missile launcher? Doesn't seem to be in spirit of the rule.

That's how I read it. Against the spirit? I'd argue that this whole answer goes against the spirit of the rule as it is written in the book. But I suppose it does prevent some silly situations, like flamers being able to wipe out a horde of troops stretching 24" or more, when the flamers are all concentrated on one flank...

Thats the key. Heavy weapons just got more important, as they generally provide better range. As long as one weapon is in range, wounds can be allocated to everything in the unit. Doesnt matter that only 1 krak missile wound is actually in range all those bolters can wound as well.

So if I understand this correctly. If I have a squad of 5 Chosen, four armed with flamers and the Chosen Champ with base equipment and I fire into a mob of Orks I can wound all the Ork within range of the Chosen's Bolt Pistol(We'll say Bolt Pistol though he has a Bolter also) or all models within 12 inches of him.

But if the Chosen Champ is dead I can only wound models which are in range of any of the Flamer templates. This sounds right but I of course might be wrong again.

If models in the unit you're firing at are out of range of the model that's firing, they cannot be hit by it and therefore cannot be wounded via the wound pool.

To expand on your example, if only 5 of the 20 are in range of your bolters, then you're rolling to hit and wound 5, not 20, because the weapon you're firing cannot reach past its maximum range. Blasts are the exception to the rule because the scatter can legally take the shot beyond its maximum range.

It also works in reverse - If the 5 men at the front of your squad can just about reach the 5 men at the front of your opponent's squad, then only those 5 can fire, the rest of your unit is out of range of the enemy and would not fire.

Some say it's silly, but I would say since you're now allowed to pre-measure pretty much everything before you make a decision, just don't make stupid decisions! :-)

Looks like a pretty big change overall!

So range and LOS sniping is in.
As a Nid this makes me happy because I rarely have specific models I'm trying to protect.
As a player in general this makes me sad.

Look Out Sir! allows you to protect your characters well enough anyway IMO. As for your non characters with your heavy weapons and such... beware the Vindicare and any character due to Precise Shots allowing the rolling player to allocate wounds to whichever model he wants!

Ouch, Trying to decide if this hurts or helps FireWarriors.

I was very happy about about avoiding an, IMO immensely "gamey" aspect of the game, namely LOS-sniping and range-sniping.

I am kinda worried that we are moving back in that direction.

How does this interact with Look Out, Sir? Can I allocate the hit to the nearest model if said model is out of range?

I don't get the range-sniping argument. How exactly would one take advantage of not being able to hurt something that's out of range?

Enceladus wrote:
beware the Vindicare and any character due to Precise Shots allowing the rolling player to allocate wounds to whichever model he wants!

Any character? I think it's just the Vindi.

rigeld2 wrote:
So range and LOS sniping is in.
As a Nid this makes me happy because I rarely have specific models I'm trying to protect.
As a player in general this makes me sad.

I'm not sure why you mention range sniping.

Your opponent already had to pull his models from the front first, you can't force him to pull them any more closer to the front by being out of range of half the unit...

I don't think the heavy weapon example works. It says shooting models not the unit and since the pool is emptied group by group does that mean that you look at the group of bolter rounds and use them up until you hit max range and then move to the heavy weapon wounds and repeat?

Also how does this work with rapid fire? Do you just ignore the fact you just killed to a range beyond 12" and continue using up the rest of the bolter rounds?

Our group has always had trouble with wound allocation from rapid fire as well. We just kind of fudge it so a FAQ on that would be helpful.

 Redemption wrote:
I don't get the range-sniping argument. How exactly would one take advantage of not being able to hurt something that's out of range?

By making sure only the sergeant is in range. Then only the sergeant will die.
But if the sergeant is all you want dead, then that;s a win.

Remember, wounds from different ap weapons form SEPARATE wound pools.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
I don't think the heavy weapon example works. It says shooting models not the unit and since the pool is emptied group by group does that mean that you look at the group of bolter rounds and use them up until you hit max range and then move to the heavy weapon wounds and repeat?

Also how does this work with rapid fire? Do you just ignore the fact you just killed to a range beyond 12" and continue using up the rest of the bolter rounds?

Per the FAQ, all that matters are the models in the unit being shot at that are completely out of range of all firing weapons when 'to hit' rolls were made.

So yes, you always use the longest range of any weapon being fired to determine what models are 'in range' and therefore viable to be pulled.


And to someone else's question about Look Out Sir...as far as I know Look out Sir has always been able to chuck wounds onto models in the unit that are out of line of sight, range, etc, so this is no change (so long as that model is of course the closest to the character using LoS).

 Drunkspleen wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
So range and LOS sniping is in.
As a Nid this makes me happy because I rarely have specific models I'm trying to protect.
As a player in general this makes me sad.

I'm not sure why you mention range sniping.

Your opponent already had to pull his models from the front first, you can't force him to pull them any more closer to the front by being out of range of half the unit...

I guess that's true...


On another note - Blessings can be used the turn you arrive from Reserves.
Iron Arm Doom just got significantly deadlier.

 lunarman wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
I don't get the range-sniping argument. How exactly would one take advantage of not being able to hurt something that's out of range?

By making sure only the sergeant is in range. Then only the sergeant will die.
But if the sergeant is all you want dead, then that;s a win.

Yes but as it stood pre-faq and even now if the sergeant is the model you want dead and is the closest model all of the attacks must go through him first anyway.
The FAQ didn't stop you using LOS! to kick all those wounds back to some mooks.

 Briancj wrote:
Remember, wounds from different ap weapons form SEPARATE wound pools.

That is incorrect. They form different groups within the pool.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
I don't think the heavy weapon example works. It says shooting models not the unit and since the pool is emptied group by group does that mean that you look at the group of bolter rounds and use them up until you hit max range and then move to the heavy weapon wounds and repeat?

Also how does this work with rapid fire? Do you just ignore the fact you just killed to a range beyond 12" and continue using up the rest of the bolter rounds?

It actually says "not within range [of] any of the shooting models". If a model with a longer range weapon is shooting, then more target models will fill that requirement.

It's a bit of a messy ruling.