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2013/01/17 06:24:18
Subject: 1750 BAO Rematch - Hive Fleet Pandora vs The Space Wolf Horde Part II (Completed)
Are Space Wolves really the anathema to tyranids? Are tyranids destined to always play second-string to the wolves? Or have tyranids finally stepped out of their shadows in the new Edition? The only thing I am positive for sure is that there is no such thing as a guaranteed victory in 6E. Under the right circumstances, any army can beat any other army and this is not taking into consideration extreme dice. This I truly believe.
Anyways, enjoy my last battle report before my tournament.
10x Grey Hunters - 2x Meltaguns, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard
10x Grey Hunters - 2x Plasmas, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard
10x Grey Hunters - 2x Plasmas, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard
10x Grey Hunters - 2x Plasmas, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard
7x Grey Hunters - 1x Melta, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod
6x Long Fangs Alpha - 5x Missile Launchers
6x Long Fangs Beta - 5x Missile Launchers
5x Long Fangs Delta - 4x Missile Launchers
Mission:Bay Area Open Scenario #5 - Purge the Alien (4pts) & The Scouring (3pts)
The way the BAO scenarios work is this. There are always 2 book missions, one worth 4 points and the other worth 3 points. There are also the 3 bonus points - First Blood, Slay the Warlord and Linebreaker - for a possible total of 10 points. Whoever gets the most points wins. In scenario #5, Purge the Alien is worth 4-points and the Scouring worth 3-points.
A couple of things to note about this game that can influence your voting:
1. Space Wolves are going first.
2. While Space Wolves are going first, Tyranids actually win the roll to pick sides first.
3. Space Wolves get a Scoring Warlord.
4. Space Wolves get 1 Skyfire objective, which they then place a unit of long fangs with the scoring Warlord on it (and with Prescience!).
5. Tyranids get a FNP Warlord within 3" of an objective.
6. Tyranid Warlord gets Iron Arm!
As usual, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this matchup. Report will probably be out on Friday. Tomorrow, I have some practice games for the tournament.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/01/20 07:49:26
1 Divination (normally would be Living Lightning and Murderous Hurricane).
1 Jaws + Murderous Hurricane (in Drop Pod)
1 Jaws + Living Lightning
Yeah I'll give this one to the wolves, sadly. All though you might be able to give your self a fighting chance with warp speed. Skyfireon that unit of long fangs is nasty. Even if you manage to get to T9.
For a foot SW list, I'm surprised you aren't taking advantage of Wolf Guards in Terminator Armor, joining Grey Hunter squads. It provides a 2+ save, which could be useful if placed in the front.
SabrX wrote: For a foot SW list, I'm surprised you aren't taking advantage of Wolf Guards in Terminator Armor, joining Grey Hunter squads. It provides a 2+ save, which could be useful if placed in the front.
I will consider that for my future SW armies. The trade-off in this case = more bodies. 1 TDA wolf guard = 2 grey hunters. Also, in the case of ATSKNF units, lower LD is actually good. This way, it's easier for you to get out of combats you don't want to be in and it can change the game should you fail morale and mess up your opponent's assault plans. For example, say a flyrant plans to assault your unit. He first shoots them, they fail morale and flee and now the flyrant has a good chance to fail his assault and is in Glide mode for your army to shoot down next turn.
You'll still may consider to build up a list including WG in TDA and deploy them as a team if vs FMC or others similar adversaries.
That's one of the great bonuses of WG.
Every molecule will be useful
6000+ pts NIDS
() 2000 pts growing to 4000...
2013/01/17 19:31:54
Subject: 1750 BAO Rematch - Hive Fleet Pandora vs The Space Wolf Horde Part II
Again like the first engagement, the space wolves having the initiative is pretty big, even if the bugs seize as it forces bug deployment. Will he reserve his tervigons? Or will he castle up to prevent proper pod dropping? We will see...
Is this a self match? Those can be tricky because it's hard to not subconsciously favor one side.
I like the wolves in this matchup though, missiles and plasma are great against big bugs as long as they're not T9, but the RPs should help with that a bit (and of course Jaws is rough on Tervs, HG, biovores, and thropes to a lesser extent). With KP being primary, it can be risky to generate gaunts. There is some great LoS blocking terrain on that table though for the Biovores, HG, Tyrants, etc. to hide behind. But I think the Wolves can drop the Tyrants quickly enough to be able to mop up the rest of the army. The Jaws Deny rules can be gamed pretty well too. If it hits a Guant/Garg/etc. before a Terv it's only a 6+ deny.
The one thing that might swing it back for the nids is Doom, he can be absolutely brutal for foot lists (also long as he doesn't mishap die again lol), and if the tyranids get a good first 2 turns there might not be much S8 stuff left by the time he shows up. One thing I'm curious about is why you always swap for Shriek over cataclysm (I don't see anything else worth it for him in telepathy so I assume you want shriek). Against anything but wolves I think going biomancy would be hilarious simply for the chance at an Iron Arm Doom. Also did you use the new Spore disembark rules? That's a pretty big boost for Doom (And how does the new "out of range" b.s. affect Doom? can he only kill people within 6"? I hate that ruling lol, way more trouble than it fixed)
2013/01/18 04:31:30
Subject: 1750 BAO Rematch - Hive Fleet Pandora vs The Space Wolf Horde Part II
Drop pod with Jaws priest comes in. Fortunately for bugs, they scatter 12" directly away!
Unfortunately for bugs, the guys inside can still disembark 6" out.
The wolves advance.
The far right long fangs move up in order to see the bugs behind the LOS-blocking mountain (impassable).
Here's a neat little tip for SW players. The first unit hit by Jaws is the only unit that can Deny it. Thus aim for a non-psychic unit first like the gargoyles for a 6+ Deny rather the tervigon for the 5+ Deny.
In any case, the drop pod wolves target the gargoyles. Even after the 12" scatter, Jaws is still in range to kill the tervigon, thus giving the wolves First Blood. Wolves also gun down 3 gargoyles.
SW: 1, Tyranids: 0
Grey hunters run.
Finally, far-right long fangs fire snap-shots and put 1W on the closer flyrant (my non-Warlord....they were out of range to shoot at my Warlord).
Tyranids 1
Spoiler:
Despite the shakey start for tyranids, things aren't really all that bad. That's because the wolves are trading off their Rune Priest and squad for the tervigon. The tervigon is 210pts but the unit of space wolves who are about to die is 235pts.
I make 2 mistakes this turn. First of all, I forget about the Rune Priest's Rune Staff (psychic defense vs tyranid psychic powers). But it really wouldn't have made a difference as you will see later on.
Secondly, I forget the the drop podding Rune Priest does not have Runic Armor. So I was playing him with a 2+ armor instead of a 3+ armor. Overall, neither mistakes really made much of a difference in the game fortunately.
Tyranids go after the podding RP. The Warlord swoops 12". The other flyrant has to glide in order to remain hidden behind the mountain. Warlord gets off Iron Arm and becomes T9. The other flyrant casts Endurance on itself.
Biovores fire at his other Jaws priest's unit, but bad scatter means biovores only end up inflicting 1W on him.
It takes the entire firepower of army - hive guards, gargoyles and both flyrants - but tyranids manage to kill all but 1 hunter, including the Rune Priest who fails enough Look-Out-Sirs and armor saves to die.
SW: 1, Tyranids: 1
Gargoyles then assault and kill the last hunter, losing 1 gargoyle in the process.
SW: 1, Tyranids: 2
Space Wolves 2
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 2. Warlord casts Prescience (not on his, but another unit of long fangs).
Long fangs scoot to the left.
They can actually barely see the head of the Tyranid Warlord.
I make 2 mistakes here, both tactics-wise. First off, the Rune Priest gives Prescience to the unit of long fangs without Skyfire. Secondly, in the excitement of actually being able to shoot at the Warlord flyrant, I actually forget about Skyfire on the objective! But to the SW defense, only 3 out of 5 of the skyfire long fangs were actually able to see and shoot at the flyrant.
In any case, both units of long fangs miss the Warlord.
Hunters advance.
Boltguns from 2 units of hunters as well as Living Lightning kills all but 2 of the gargoyles, most of whom are out in the open.
They turn out to be out of synapse and thus flee off the board.
SW: 2, Tyranids: 2
Far-left long fangs fire at the normal flyrant (with Endurance) because he is not in swooping mode. They manage to put 2W on him and he fails both cover and FNP saves (down to 1W remaining).
Grey hunters fire at the hive guards and only put 1W on them.
Tyranids 2
Spoiler:
The Doom comes in! Quad-guns put 1W on him at the end of the Movement phase.
So does the tervigon, as it goes after the far-left long fangs. He moves into area terrain for some protection.
Tyranids cast psychic powers (they always will unless I note otherwise). Warlord becomes T7.
Tyranids advance.
Flyrants go into glide mode and prepare to assault.
The Doom kills 6 grey hunters from 1 unit and the Jaws priest (who failed his Look-Out-Sirs!) from the other!
SW: 2, Tyranids: 3
Fortunately for the space wolves, the Warlord's long fangs pass their 3D6LD from the Doom's Spirit Leech. He would then go on to negate the Doom's Psychic Shriek with his Runic Staff.
Biovores make the clustered-up long fangs pay, killing 3 from the Warlord's unit and 1 from the other unit.
Shooting - hive guards and the flyrant - kill 2 and 4 grey hunters.
The unit of hunters who lost 6 to the Doom fails Morale and flees.
Flyrant would then assault the unit.
As does the tyranid Warlord, who only shoot down 1 grey hunter this turn.
Flyrant kills 3 and then catches them in a Sweeping Advance. However, due to ATSKNF, they are not destroyed and instead just stays locked in combat.
The Warlord kills 2 in combat.
Overall, a very good turn for the bugs. Both Jaws priests are dead and both flyrants are protected from shooting by locking themselves in combat.
Space Wolves 3
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 3.
The Warlord and his unit of long fangs move back and out of Spirit Leech range of the Doom. RP casts Prescience on the other unit of long fangs.
Grey hunters advance to make a play on the tyranid objectives.
Other grey hunters advance as well to get away from the Doom.
Spirit Leech from the Doom kills 3 hunters locked in combat with the tyranid Warlord.
In shooting, long fangs only put 2W on the tervigon.
Long fangs would also insta-gib the Doom.
SW: 3, Tyranids: 3
Grey hunters shoot down 1 hive guard and put 1W on the other.
In combat, the Mark of Wulfen hunter is able to rend the flyrant and kill him, but not before losing 2 members.
SW: 4, Tyranids: 3
Finally, the Warlord flyrant whiffs in combat, managing only to kill 1 hunter.
Tyranids 3
Spoiler:
Flyrant tries to cast Iron Arm but is blocked by the Rune Priest.
Tyranid movement. Zoanthropes cast Endurance on hive guards, who advance.
Tervigon casts Iron Arm to become T7. He then spawns 14 gants and runs out. Bugs advance.
Gants fire on the grey hunters and kill 3. Tervigon fires its cluster spines at the long fangs and kills 2.
Biovores fire at the long fangs and kill 1 from each squad.
Hive guards shoot down 1 grey hunter.
Long fangs then fail morale and flee! Uh oh....not good for the tervigon, who was planning to assault them.
Hive guards assault. 1 dies to Overwatch.
Tervigon still manages to make the 8" charge through difficult terrain.
Grey hunters manage to put 1W on the hive guard, who flees and gets away. It falls back into synapse range (of the zoanthropes).
1 grey hunter still lives against the flyrant.
Finally, the tervigon wipes out the long fangs, losing 1W in the process.
SW: 4, Tyranids: 4
Space Wolves 4
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 4.
Long fangs and Warlord move into terrain.
Hunters advance.
They shoot pistols and put 1W on a zoanthrope.
Their plan is to kill the zoanthropes, thus destroying synapse on that side (where there are 2 units of termagants on objectives).
However, they would fail their charge!!!
Long fangs fire and put another 2W on the tervigon (5W total, 1W remaining).
Lone hunter fires at the pod and put 1W on it.
Finally, the flyrant finishes off the lone grey hunter.
SW: 4, Tyranids: 5
Tyranids 4
Spoiler:
Gants come out to play. Zoanthropes cast Iron Arm and Endurance on themselves.
Warlord goes after the Warlord. Flyrant fails to cast Iron Arm once again due to the Rune Priest.
Tervigon gets out of the LOS of the long fangs.
Shooting by 20 termagants, the biovores and hive guard kill 4 hunters.
Flyrant decides to shoot at the non-Warlord long fangs, wiping out the unit.
SW: 4, Tyranids: 6
Hive guard, Iron Armed zoans and 1 unit of gants assault the grey hunters.
They kill 2....
....and the last survivor breaks.
Space Wolves 5
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 5.
Space wolves don't have much left. This turn will mainly be cleanup by the bugs.
Lone hunter automatically regroups due to ATSKNF and goes after the wounded hive guard. BTW, he is the guy with the Mark of the Wulfen.
The other lone hunter moves away from the gants and then runs.
Drop pod shoots down 2 gants.
Rune Priest and lone long fang fail to hurt the flyrant.
Assault....
....and triumph due to a rend.
SW: 5, Tyranids: 6
Tyranids 5
Spoiler:
Tyranid movement. Zoans cast Endurance on both units of gants.
Tervigon goes after the drop pod. Gants the objective.
Flyrant casts Iron Arm to become T9. He shoots down 2 long fangs, wiping out the unit (except for the Rune Priest).
SW: 5, Tyranids: 7
He would then flee and not regroup.
SW: 5, Tyranids: 8
Shooting wipes out the lone hunter.
SW: 5, Tyranids: 9
Tervigon would blow up the drop pod in assault.
SW: 5, Tyranids: 10
Game ends.
Aftermath of the carnage.
Space wolves have only 2 models left, of which one is on a 2-pt objective. They would also get 1 Scouring VP for killing the gargoyles, for a total of 3-pts for the Scouring.
Bugs would get the 3-pt and 1-pt objective for a total of 4-pts for the Scouring.
Tyranids take Victory Points 10-5 for +4 VP's. They also take the Scouring 4-3 for +3 VP's.
Finally, space wolves get +1 VP for First Blood (tervigon). Tyranids get +2 VP's for Warlord and Linebreaker.
Final tally is Tyranids 9, Space Wolves 1.
Complete Domination by Hive Fleet Pandora!!!
Oh nooeeessssss....I will be back!
This message was edited 18 times. Last update was at 2013/01/20 07:48:28
ouch, already a tervigon down... Jaws is so dirty.
Nids are definitely going to have a tough time againt SW it seems.
Still rooting for them to pull out a win though! been watching you develop your tyranids for a few months now, i love what you've been doing with them!
4000+
1500+ (WIP)
2013/01/18 22:24:39
Subject: 1750 BAO Rematch - Hive Fleet Pandora vs The Space Wolf Horde Part II
You have ruled this galaxy for ten thousand years
Yet have little of account to show for your efforts
Order. Unity. Obedience.
We taught the galaxy these things
And we shall do so again.
4500 pts
2013/01/18 23:23:04
Subject: 1750 BAO Rematch - Hive Fleet Pandora vs The Space Wolf Horde Part II
I don't really see any way for that nid list to beat the SW list. That's a terrible matchup and 6th hasn't really changed that. The only advantage the nids have here is mobility, but if the wolves hunker on the high point objectives, then the nids shouldn't be able to pry them off.
Jy2 made a cunning move, he left the Iron Arm Tervigon in reserve presenting the other one to Jawws, it will be a lot more difficult for the wolves to get rid of that one, cause now the Nids can go hunting those threats.
Make no mistake the Doom has still to come and he will have a huge impact, dictating again the wolves actions for a turn, I think this is all the Nids will need to take the initiative, and wolves dont have forceweapons to kill him when he locks in hth...
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/01/19 07:59:04
You have ruled this galaxy for ten thousand years
Yet have little of account to show for your efforts
Order. Unity. Obedience.
We taught the galaxy these things
And we shall do so again.
4500 pts
2013/01/19 07:01:17
Subject: Re:1750 BAO Rematch - Hive Fleet Pandora vs The Space Wolf Horde Part II
Sorry, will have to finish this report tomorrow. Today need to spend the time to get ready for my tournament tomorrow (also got in a practice game against my very nasty Wraithwing necrons as played by SabrX).
Yes the two Tyrants just need to jump over the mountain and assault two GH squads. The wounded one needs to survive Overwatch And then they both will smash to try and keep the GH squads stuck in combat for the next turn.
The Doom has a bunch of bunched up infantry squads to try and hammer. I think the GH should not have advanced so close to that mountain.
2013/01/19 20:27:04
Subject: 1750 BAO Rematch - Hive Fleet Pandora vs The Space Wolf Horde Part II
Making that gap for the doom seemed like an embaressing move for the wolves. You just basically let him drop into the middle of all your guys with no effort.
Turn one for the wolves I think the pod was better off coming in less central in order make the bugs split up in order to get the VP's.
Not sure I agree that forgetting about that ruin weapon didn't impact this game at all as the warlord flryrant was able to go up to T9 and indecently the two units of long fangs could target him. It was only silly error by the wolves not twin linking the correct unit of LF that mitigated this other wise the warlord could have been killed or at least grounded for the far left squad and the other snap firing squad.
Also not sure I agree with the wolves advancing up to that mountain like that, they would have to realized this just lets the dual flyrants hop over for assault, and again creates that money shot glory hole for the doom to land in lol.
Still an interesting read never the less, I think as I have said in the past that these errors are unavoidable in self played games. After all two heads are better then one (usually) and it's hard enough remembering one armies rules and tricks.
End of turn 2 and I'd say the Tyranids have this one. The Flyrants should finish off those GH squads on the Space Wolf turn, with the help of the Doom (who appears to be in range of at least one of them).
A third of the Long Fangs are dead, plus one unit will be forced to either snap shot or stay in range of the Doom again...and they HAVE to deal with him this turn.
Either way it would probably make very little difference, but are you remembering to shoot with all your "little" guns? On turn 2, you didn't mention the Spore Pod shooting anything or the Tervigon shooting those Long Fangs.
Great report so far!
2013/01/20 06:01:57
Subject: 1750 BAO Rematch - Hive Fleet Pandora vs The Space Wolf Horde Part II
Bugs_N_Orks wrote: Is this a self match? Those can be tricky because it's hard to not subconsciously favor one side.
Yes it is. Not only that, but it's hard because you have to remember the rules and tactics for both armies as well. Honestly, it's hard to play a perfect game when you are playing both armies.
Then again, getting someone else to play one of my optimized armies means that he may not be playing it entirely correct either, especially if they don't have the experience to play it correctly.
Valek wrote: Jy2 made a cunning move, he left the Iron Arm Tervigon in reserve presenting the other one to Jawws, it will be a lot more difficult for the wolves to get rid of that one, cause now the Nids can go hunting those threats.
Make no mistake the Doom has still to come and he will have a huge impact, dictating again the wolves actions for a turn, I think this is all the Nids will need to take the initiative, and wolves dont have forceweapons to kill him when he locks in hth...
Yeah, I learned from the last game. Though I should have kept the original powers on one of them so I can still cast Catalyst. Oh well.
Wolves still have lots of S8 weapons to gun down the Doom. Of course that would mean that the TMC's will get a free pass for one turn....but that doesn't really matter for a flyrant locked in combat anyways.
Red Corsair wrote: Making that gap for the doom seemed like an embaressing move for the wolves. You just basically let him drop into the middle of all your guys with no effort.
Turn one for the wolves I think the pod was better off coming in less central in order make the bugs split up in order to get the VP's.
Not sure I agree that forgetting about that ruin weapon didn't impact this game at all as the warlord flryrant was able to go up to T9 and indecently the two units of long fangs could target him. It was only silly error by the wolves not twin linking the correct unit of LF that mitigated this other wise the warlord could have been killed or at least grounded for the far left squad and the other snap firing squad.
Also not sure I agree with the wolves advancing up to that mountain like that, they would have to realized this just lets the dual flyrants hop over for assault, and again creates that money shot glory hole for the doom to land in lol.
Still an interesting read never the less, I think as I have said in the past that these errors are unavoidable in self played games. After all two heads are better then one (usually) and it's hard enough remembering one armies rules and tricks.
Good luck at the tourney!
I actually agree, but that is talking with hindsight. The reason why I advanced them were several:
1. Last game when I played more aggressively and advanced the wolves, they actually did quite well (almost tabled the bugs). So why mess with success.
2. Was trying to create more separation between the hunter and the long fangs. If I kept the hunters back, I think the Doom would have even more targets so I was trying to move them away from the fangs.
3. Jaws priest need to advance in order to be able to target the other tervigon.
4. It matches my philosophy of Positional Dominance. The space wolves needed to achieve an advantageous position, which is to move onto those objectives. Otherwise, when bugs overrun the objectives, the wolves really don't have the mobility to quickly reach the objectives as well as to fight the bugs off of them.
But it's not over yet. There is still a lot of fight left in the wolves.
Either way it would probably make very little difference, but are you remembering to shoot with all your "little" guns? On turn 2, you didn't mention the Spore Pod shooting anything or the Tervigon shooting those Long Fangs.
Great report so far!
Yeah, I did. They just didn't do any damage or failed to penetrate the armor saves. Usually in my reports, if I don't mention something, then most likely it did not do anything or it failed to do something. I usually just mention something of note and usually if I make any mistakes, I will note it down in my reports.
Are you trying to ask where the hell is jaws or what the hell is jaws? I'll answer both:
1. Jaws is a psychic power that forces you to take an Initiative test or die. Tervigons are only I1 and hence are easily killed by Jaws.
2. Jaws came down on a drop pod with the 7 hunters on turn 1. They then killed 1 tervigon which was exactly what they had wanted. Tyranids then wiped out both the priest and the unit.
The 2nd Jaws priest failed 2 Look-Out-Sirs, taking 1W from a biovore (barrage sniping) on Turn 1 and dying to the Doom on turn 2 (no saves).
Nice play from the Nids, so i still stay with statement, that Nids list is truly an all comers, the only issue might be a full Necron Airforce but that will have its issues at tournaments to.
About the wolves yes they are strong, very strong but i deem the Grey Knights better not in the least by having Coteaz, and Dreadknights
Maybe both should ally for the best of both worlds, allying in a podded runepriest with jaws in a GK army would not be that wrong and its quite inexpensive.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/01/20 08:25:18
You have ruled this galaxy for ten thousand years
Yet have little of account to show for your efforts
Order. Unity. Obedience.
We taught the galaxy these things
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
(
) 2000 pts growing to 4000... 
Though realistically I think it'll be a really rough ride for them!
