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1750 Tournament - Double-Trouble Chaos Dynamic Duo! (Game #1 p.2, Game #2 p.4, Game #3 p.5)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Poll
Which army to bring to a tournament?
1. Tyranids, because they are good and I have had the most practice with them recently.
2. Necrons, because they are the "strongest" army currently.
3. Chaos, because I need to challenge myself.
4. Space Wolves, because I want to see if they are still a top-tier tournament army.
5. Grey Knights, because I want to see how much they've fallen from the top spot. ;)
6. Other. Please see comments.

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

There is a 1750 tournament coming up this upcoming Saturday at our local LGS. It's been a while since my last tournament (last summer), which was the Golden Throne. I've decided to take a day off from work in order to participate in this one. Some of the dakkalites that will show up include Janthkin, Grey Therion and possibly Kingsley as well. Too bad SabrX won't be going.

Now I haven't really decided which army I will be bringing yet, but I have a couple of armies in mind. Let me know what armies you guys would like to see in action.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


1. 1750 Hive Fleet Pandora

Flyrant - 2x TL-Devourers
Flyrant - 2x TL-Devourers

Doom of Ma'lantai - Mycetic Spore
3x Hive Guards
2x Zoanthropes

Tervigon - Adrenal Glands, Catalyst, Cluster Spines, Onslaught, Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs
10x Termagants
Tervigon - Adrenal Glands, Catalyst, Cluster Spines, Onslaught, Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs
10x Termagants

15x Gargoyles - Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs

2x Biovores
2x Biovores


Thoughts: This is a tournament-winning army. However, I'm thinking of saving this one for the Bay Area Open. Probably, bugs and necrons are my 2 strongest tournament armies currently. Grade: A.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


2. 1750 Wraithwing Necrons

Destroyer Lord - 2+, Mindshackle Scarabs, ResOrb
Destroyer Lord - 2+, Mindshackle Scarabs, ResOrb

5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors

6x Canoptek Wraiths - 3x Whip Coils
6x Canoptek Wraiths - 3x Whip Coils

Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Doom Scythe


Thoughts: Another tournament-winning army. As a matter of fact, I won the Golden Throne using a 1500-pt version of this list. Probably the hardest list to fight due to its 4 flyers. However, I'm thinking of saving this one for the Bay Area Open. Probably, bugs and necrons are my 2 strongest tournament armies currently. Grade: A+.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


3. 1750 Double-Trouble Chaos Marines

Abaddon
Typhus

33x Zombie Cultists
32x Zombie Cultists
10x Zombie Cultists
10x Zombie Cultists
10x Zombie Cultists

5x Chaos Spawn - Mark of Nurgle
Heldrake

3x Obliterators - Mark of Nurgle, Veterans of the Long War
3x Obliterators - Mark of Nurgle, Veterans of the Long War


Thoughts: Unproven army build that is more of a fun list than a competitive one. I admit that I really want to test this list out in a tournament to see how competitive it really is. Of all the lists here, this one is probably the only underdog list. But that's what I love about it - the challenge of playing as an underdog. Will probably get destroyed my Janthkin's tyranids....or I may surprise him. Grade: B.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


4. 1750 The Space Wolf Horde

Rune Priest - 2+, Chooser
Rune Priest - 2+
Rune Priest

3x Wolf Guards - 3x Combi-meltas, Drop Pod

10x Grey Hunters - 2x Meltaguns, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard
10x Grey Hunters - 2x Plasmas, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard
10x Grey Hunters - 2x Plasmas, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard
10x Grey Hunters - 2x Plasmas, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard
5x Grey Hunters - 1x Plasma

6x Long Fangs Alpha - 5x Missile Launchers
6x Long Fangs Beta - 5x Missile Launchers
5x Long Fangs Delta - 4x Missile Launchers

Aegis Defense Line - Quad-guns


Thoughts: Strong tournament army. It has the potential to win it all, however, it's also got its weaknesses. I'm actually in the mood to bring my Wolves or my Chaos. Will definitely give tyranids, necrons and Tau a hard time due to its psychic powers. Grade: A-.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


5. 1750 The Grey Knight Horde

Coteaz

10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo, 1x Halberd
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo, 1x Halberd
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo, 1x Halberd
8x Strike Squad - 1x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo, 1x Halberd
3x Henchmen

Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter
Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter
Psyfleman Dreadnought - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo

Aegis Defense Line - Quad-guns


Thoughts: Another strong tournament army. I think this list is about on par with my space wolves. I've modified my original list, dropping 1 unit of strikers (firepower & scoring) for more support (psyfleman) and better mobility (teleporters on dreadknights). It may have problems against Janthkin's tyranids, but otherwise is very solid. Grade: A-.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


So let me know what you guys think. Naturally, battle reports to follow in this thread after the tournament.

Also, if you think I should bring something else other than the above, or if you think I should modify my lists somewhat, please comment below.

Thanks.



This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2013/01/24 01:39:20




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Made in ca
Tunneling Trygon




British Columbia

I'd say really challenge yourself by playing your evolving Chaos list.

I'm not very familiar with the new Chaos book, but judging by their success in your recent reports have you thought about finding a way to include another large group of Nurgle spawn?

It seems since you added them to the list they've been able to add a dynamic element to your attack that was lacking before.

Are you completely sold on using Abaddon? Obviously quite deadly in melee, but that's a lot of points spent doing little until then, and his lack of mobility might be exploited in a competitive setting.

Dropping him would get you another Nurgle spawn group and 80(?) points to play with.

No matter what you choose I'm looking forward to the reports that will follow.

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Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut



Warsaw

I would prefer to see Necrons, seems currently that players do more and more flying stuff so I would very much like to see how/if your opponents will counter your flying

and as above I would very much like to read further reports!
   
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I want to see the Nids ruin some people day when they under estimate how good they are.

   
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Deranged Necron Destroyer





Wichita, Ks

As a fellow Cron player i must admit missing your crons in action...

Would love to see you crush your opponents with your wraithwing!

"The Old Ones and their kin, shall burn..."

7000pts



 
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut



Warsaw

unless you would run Eldar...
   
Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer






My top 3 would be:

Nids, most balanced all comers list
Gk, they are still good
Necrons, op army atm, maybe you will have to many mirror matches.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/16 14:10:51


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[MOD]
Lord Commander






San Jose, CA

Eldercaveman wrote:
I want to see the Nids ruin some people day when they under estimate how good they are.
It's a little local tournament; I can assure you that no one who would be there would underestimate tyranids.

I'd vote against your Tyranids, just because of time issues - I'm not sure you're up to pace yet, given how multiple barrage weapons tend to screw with time. If you do bring them, make sure you have multiple large blast markers to speed it up. For that matter, having one of them with thin legs (so that it can stand on the table) would actually be very handy for that scenario.

Chaos seems like the most fun (non-Tyranid) list to play of your available options.

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Sneaky Sniper Drone




Portland, Oregon

Chaos does seem the most fun, also I think it is a lot more competitive than people give it credit for.
   
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Arizona

I would have to say your Chaos army. You obviously wanna play test it, and what better time than now?

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Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





Hey, good to hear you will be at the tournament! I will be there as well.

I think that, of those armies, playing your Tyranids will probably maximize your chances of winning-- I actually think it's better than the Necrons overall-- but I think the Chaos army is the coolest and I would love to see it in action.

BAO 2013: Best Space Marine 
   
Made in be
Deranged Necron Destroyer






With the new faqs the GK Footknights would do well, changing out that dread for a Vindicaire...

You have ruled this galaxy for ten thousand years
Yet have little of account to show for your efforts
Order. Unity. Obedience.
We taught the galaxy these things

And we shall do so again.

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Hauptmann




Fortress of Solitude

I will also be attending the tournament.

Celesticon 2013 Warhammer 40k Tournament- Best General
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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

 Eldarain wrote:
I'd say really challenge yourself by playing your evolving Chaos list.

I'm not very familiar with the new Chaos book, but judging by their success in your recent reports have you thought about finding a way to include another large group of Nurgle spawn?

It seems since you added them to the list they've been able to add a dynamic element to your attack that was lacking before.

Are you completely sold on using Abaddon? Obviously quite deadly in melee, but that's a lot of points spent doing little until then, and his lack of mobility might be exploited in a competitive setting.

Dropping him would get you another Nurgle spawn group and 80(?) points to play with.

No matter what you choose I'm looking forward to the reports that will follow.

I don't really feel that I need another unit of Chaos Spawn. They are good but they are more of a tarpitting unit than a killy unit, and I've already got a lot of tarpitting units in this list. If anything, what I need is another heldrake, but I'd probably have to dump Abaddon or 2 oblits and some zombies to fit it in.

Abaddon is mainly for fun. If I want a truly balanced list, I'd drop him and his big block of zombies for plague marines and maybe another Fast Attack (i.e. another Heldrake or more Chaos spawns). I am taking him because....well, he's Abaddon and he's there to kick a$$ and take names.


Fikol wrote:
I would prefer to see Necrons, seems currently that players do more and more flying stuff so I would very much like to see how/if your opponents will counter your flying

and as above I would very much like to read further reports!

Probably the only counter is Janthkin's flyer necrons and that is only if he isn't taking his bugs. Honestly, I don't think there will be good counters to my flyer wraithwing crons because there probably won't be more than 20 players. It's not a really big tournament.


Eldercaveman wrote:
I want to see the Nids ruin some people day when they under estimate how good they are.

 Janthkin wrote:
It's a little local tournament; I can assure you that no one who would be there would underestimate tyranids.

I'd vote against your Tyranids, just because of time issues - I'm not sure you're up to pace yet, given how multiple barrage weapons tend to screw with time. If you do bring them, make sure you have multiple large blast markers to speed it up. For that matter, having one of them with thin legs (so that it can stand on the table) would actually be very handy for that scenario.

Chaos seems like the most fun (non-Tyranid) list to play of your available options.

Right, I don't believe anyone here will under-estimate tyranids. Both Janthkin and my tyranids are a horror to play against. Most people are scratching their heads trying to figure out how to beat them. Here, tyranids are very intimidating. It may have something to do with the generals who are running them.

If we both bring bugs, I hope we can even make it to Turn 4 should we play against each other.

It'll definitely be interesting to see the clash in tyranid styles - my dual-flyrant/biovore nids against Janthkin's Swarmlord-led/stealer-ymgarl infested bugs. We need to have that matchup one of these days.





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[MOD]
Lord Commander






San Jose, CA

I won the last one with Tyranids; I probably won't bring them again. If my Chaos were in a fit state, I'd likely deploy them instead.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/01/17 00:53:12


Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

 Riddick40k wrote:
As a fellow Cron player i must admit missing your crons in action...

Would love to see you crush your opponents with your wraithwing!

Probably the toughest matchup for them will be Janthkin's tyranids. For some reason, my necrons have always had problems against the bugs.

Then again, people can surprise you.


Fikol wrote:
unless you would run Eldar...

Sorry, don't own Eldar.

But Janthkin does. I haven't seen him run them in 6E yet, but maybe someone should consider bringing eldar.


 Valek wrote:
My top 3 would be:

Nids, most balanced all comers list
Gk, they are still good
Necrons, op army atm, maybe you will have to many mirror matches.

Agreed. All those armies are still strong. I'd also actually group space wolves up there with the grey knights. They are still very good.


 Panopticon wrote:
Chaos does seem the most fun, also I think it is a lot more competitive than people give it credit for.

Yeah, they are the type of armies that can surprise some opponents. However, they are also one of my lesser balanced armies. "Fun" is definitely a word I would use to describe them.


 xXWeaponPrimeXx wrote:
I would have to say your Chaos army. You obviously wanna play test it, and what better time than now?

That may well be the case. Right now, Chaos and tyranids are in the lead.


 Kingsley wrote:
Hey, good to hear you will be at the tournament! I will be there as well.

I think that, of those armies, playing your Tyranids will probably maximize your chances of winning-- I actually think it's better than the Necrons overall-- but I think the Chaos army is the coolest and I would love to see it in action.

Awesome. Looking forwards to a rematch. Your space marines are actually really good. Can't wait to crush....I mean, play them again.

Yeah, if the votes for bugs and chaos are really close, I may just end up bringing Chaos and saving my bugs for the BAO. My goal isn't necessarily to win the tournament, but to give my armies some good practice.


 Valek wrote:
With the new faqs the GK Footknights would do well, changing out that dread for a Vindicaire...

I may just do that. With the new FAQ, he seems to be viable once again. Need to do some playtesting.

However, dropping the psyfleman means I will be getting rid of my psychic defense.


 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
I will also be attending the tournament.

Awesome! What are you thinking of bringing?





Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Janthkin wrote:
I won the last one with Tyranids; I probably won't bring them again. If my Chaos were in a fit state, I'd likely deploy them instead.

Bring eldar and show us how it's done.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/17 01:05:39




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Longtime Dakkanaut






Bay Area

Jy2, too bad you don't have a 6th list. You could roll a D6 and let the dice gods decide!

Any of the lists are fine. You could also mix it up with allies to make it more interesting.

If it weren't for lack of scoring mobility, I would have voted CSM. CSM + Necron combo could fix that. Otherwise, Spaces Wolves is a solid choice. However, like your CSM, they also lack mobility.

   
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Sabrx- doesn't he have an ork army I endorse this dice god trick!

jy2- Have you read the recent FAQ!?!? The Hell turkey got....BETTER! I'd say squeeze in a second soon but definitely bring Chaos, well, if the die roll falls through



 
   
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Arbitrary Forgeworld

Save your Bugz for BAO. I voted for CSM - go have some fun.





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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Ok, the new FAQ's are out and they have actually helped out some of the armies:


Necrons
  • When a night scythe is wrecked, the passengers go back into reserves without taking damage.



  • Chaos Space Marines
  • Heldrakes have a 360 arc of fire for their gus, measured from their base.


  • No cover saves from its Vector Strikes (applies to all armies).


  • Abaddon can join any marked units.



  • Grey Knights
  • Force weapon activation occurs before FNP saves.


  • Vindicare's shot overrides Look-Out-Sirs! That means I may have to consider him in my lists now.



  •  SabrX wrote:
    Jy2, too bad you don't have a 6th list. You could roll a D6 and let the dice gods decide!

    Any of the lists are fine. You could also mix it up with allies to make it more interesting.

    If it weren't for lack of scoring mobility, I would have voted CSM. CSM + Necron combo could fix that. Otherwise, Spaces Wolves is a solid choice. However, like your CSM, they also lack mobility.

    I can still D6 it. The 6th list could always be Other or Surprise List.

    For some reason, I prefer to use purist lists. Maybe it has something to do with everyone on the net saying that you need allies to compete. Eventually I will get into allies (already have with my Epidemius-CSM army), but that probably won't be until after the BAO.

    The only thing preventing the GK's and SW's from getting an A grade is their lack of mobility. If they had a little more mobility, then they would be truly dominating.


     Red Corsair wrote:
    Sabrx- doesn't he have an ork army I endorse this dice god trick!

    jy2- Have you read the recent FAQ!?!? The Hell turkey got....BETTER! I'd say squeeze in a second soon but definitely bring Chaos, well, if the die roll falls through

    Yeah, that helturkey is a beast! If I had 2, I would definitely bring them. He just may be the best flyer in the game currently. I almost feel sorry for the Imperial armies!

    Alas, I can see a lot of people whining about it. Heck, even I probably would if I had to go against the double-dragons with my MEQ armies.

    Fortunately, my Xenos armies don't care.


     Dozer Blades wrote:
    Save your Bugz for BAO. I voted for CSM - go have some fun.

    Yeah, that's what I am thinking. For the BAO, there's going to be a future poll about whether I should bring my bugs or my crons....though it would be glorious if the bugs can take that one.




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    Huge Hierodule





    West Virginia

    I voted bugs, but upon reading these responses and reflecting on my own experiences, I want to change my mind and say go with what you think will be fun or challenging. My tyranids are largely undefeated in my area (in 6th, mind you) and I too have been trying to figure out which army I want to play next. I have Necrons, Tau, and Blood Angels - the marines in red haven't seen any table time in 6th and i'm strongly considering trying them out again.

    Back to your original point - I suggest playing around with Chaos. The codex is obviously new even with the Dark Angels stealing the spotlight this month, and I am not sure anybody has 'broken' it yet into a tournament list. Sure...plenty have made strong and functional lists but at least locally i haven't seen anybody dominating with chaos yet. Give it a whirl and see how it goes -- you'll also find yourself having more fun when your list isn't utterly dominating the competition the way your Tyranids tend to do.

    Regardless of which army you choose I look forward to reading the forthcoming batreps!

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     jy2 wrote:
    Ok, the new FAQ's are out and they have actually helped out some of the armies:


    Necrons
  • When a night scythe is wrecked, the passengers go back into reserves without taking damage.



  • Chaos Space Marines
  • Heldrakes have a 360 arc of fire for their gus, measured from their base.


  • No cover saves from its Vector Strikes (applies to all armies).


  • Abaddon can join any marked units.



  • Grey Knights
  • Force weapon activation occurs before FNP saves.


  • Vindicare's shot overrides Look-Out-Sirs! That means I may have to consider him in my lists now.



  •  SabrX wrote:
    Jy2, too bad you don't have a 6th list. You could roll a D6 and let the dice gods decide!

    Any of the lists are fine. You could also mix it up with allies to make it more interesting.

    If it weren't for lack of scoring mobility, I would have voted CSM. CSM + Necron combo could fix that. Otherwise, Spaces Wolves is a solid choice. However, like your CSM, they also lack mobility.

    I can still D6 it. The 6th list could always be Other or Surprise List.

    For some reason, I prefer to use purist lists. Maybe it has something to do with everyone on the net saying that you need allies to compete. Eventually I will get into allies (already have with my Epidemius-CSM army), but that probably won't be until after the BAO.

    The only thing preventing the GK's and SW's from getting an A grade is their lack of mobility. If they had a little more mobility, then they would be truly dominating.


     Red Corsair wrote:
    Sabrx- doesn't he have an ork army I endorse this dice god trick!

    jy2- Have you read the recent FAQ!?!? The Hell turkey got....BETTER! I'd say squeeze in a second soon but definitely bring Chaos, well, if the die roll falls through

    Yeah, that helturkey is a beast! If I had 2, I would definitely bring them. He just may be the best flyer in the game currently. I almost feel sorry for the Imperial armies!

    Alas, I can see a lot of people whining about it. Heck, even I probably would if I had to go against the double-dragons with my MEQ armies.

    Fortunately, my Xenos armies don't care.


     Dozer Blades wrote:
    Save your Bugz for BAO. I voted for CSM - go have some fun.

    Yeah, that's what I am thinking. For the BAO, there's going to be a future poll about whether I should bring my bugs or my crons....though it would be glorious if the bugs can take that one.



    You missed an important one for Doom, he now has a 12 inch threat range from the pod, and you can put an endurance on him the turn he lands from another psyker.

       
    Made in us
    Fixture of Dakka





    San Jose, CA

    Eldercaveman wrote:

    You missed an important one for Doom, he now has a 12 inch threat range from the pod, and you can put an endurance on him the turn he lands from another psyker.

    Are you sure about the Reserve Rolls and Endurance? Then does that mean the Doom can also cast Iron Arm on the turn he comes in? I was under the impression that when the pods come in, it is no longer the start of the Movement phase. At the start of the Movement is when you check to see which Reserves will be coming in.

    Wow...that would be quite a big boon if this was true.




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    San Jose, CA

    The Doom certainly cannot self-cast. See pg. 67.

    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
       
    Made in us
    Fixture of Dakka





    San Jose, CA

     tetrisphreak wrote:
    I voted bugs, but upon reading these responses and reflecting on my own experiences, I want to change my mind and say go with what you think will be fun or challenging. My tyranids are largely undefeated in my area (in 6th, mind you) and I too have been trying to figure out which army I want to play next. I have Necrons, Tau, and Blood Angels - the marines in red haven't seen any table time in 6th and i'm strongly considering trying them out again.

    Back to your original point - I suggest playing around with Chaos. The codex is obviously new even with the Dark Angels stealing the spotlight this month, and I am not sure anybody has 'broken' it yet into a tournament list. Sure...plenty have made strong and functional lists but at least locally i haven't seen anybody dominating with chaos yet. Give it a whirl and see how it goes -- you'll also find yourself having more fun when your list isn't utterly dominating the competition the way your Tyranids tend to do.

    Regardless of which army you choose I look forward to reading the forthcoming batreps!

    Go for it. Give your Angels a try. I've actually got a BA army as well. It is somewhat similar to SabrX's, only I run 3x5 devastators instead of the stormraven and a little less terminators. As with my wolves and guard, I don't play it very much (at all!) lately.

    I feel that Chaos will be as competitive as their heldrakes take them. Those heldrakes are game-winners. The more you take, the more competitive the army becomes. Ideally, a good Chaos army will have at least 2 heldrakes, but that is probably the only cookie-cutter units in the book. 1 heldrake will make it a lot more challenging. But whatever you take, Chaos definitely won't be game-breaking in tournament play. A lot of the xenos armies don't fear the helturkeys.




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     jy2 wrote:
    Eldercaveman wrote:

    You missed an important one for Doom, he now has a 12 inch threat range from the pod, and you can put an endurance on him the turn he lands from another psyker.

    Are you sure about the Reserve Rolls and Endurance? Then does that mean the Doom can also cast Iron Arm on the turn he comes in? I was under the impression that when the pods come in, it is no longer the start of the Movement phase. At the start of the Movement is when you check to see which Reserves will be coming in.

    Wow...that would be quite a big boon if this was true.



    No can't cast on him self, but I pretty sure he can be given endurance by another Psyker now, which still helps.

       
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     Janthkin wrote:
    The Doom certainly cannot self-cast. See pg. 67.

    That's better. For a moment, I almost thought it was too good to be true.





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     jy2 wrote:
     Janthkin wrote:
    The Doom certainly cannot self-cast. See pg. 67.

    That's better. For a moment, I almost thought it was too good to be true.




    Well it still wouldn't be that brilliant, you still have to manage to roll Iron Arm on him

       
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    True that.




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     jy2 wrote:



     Valek wrote:
    With the new faqs the GK Footknights would do well, changing out that dread for a Vindicaire...

    I may just do that. With the new FAQ, he seems to be viable once again. Need to do some playtesting.

    However, dropping the psyfleman means I will be getting rid of my psychic defense.



    I don't see the difference, he will oneshot most psykers in the game, and no lookout sir, on the fat ones he will add 2 wounds a turn... or take out their inv, which you can then introduce them to one of your Dreadknights for some slapping...
    And he will be easier to gain first blood than the dread, sniping a IC with 2 wounds or a rhino like thing on turn one. More than the dread he wil dictate your enemies movement, and he is well protected with allthose footknights and dreadknights around him.

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/01/17 06:30:51


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