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The old thread, "Has GW finally hit that magic number that will price people out of the hobby?" prompted me to post this:

While looking over the new The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey releases, I'm seriously considering purchasing a starter box set. Games Workshop games are not a cheap hobby, but the figures look quite good. The Hobbit figures are all quite excellent, of that there's no doubt. Even as plastic figures, they look miles ahead of the plastic figures included in the Mines of Moria box set.

But then as I look over the products available some doubt start to creep in...

First, the prices. You can't have a discussion about Games Workshop without touching on the prices. Now, I realize New Line Cinema tripled the licensing costs, but still. The basic box game is $115 and includes 750 points worth of model kit figures. That's a decent value. Additional box sets of goblins (virtually mandatory) are $36 for 18 half-size figures. The Goblin Town terrain set is a ridiculous $60. Normally useful, I'd pick up multiples if the price was better. Something I *want( to do, if the price wasn't so off-putting.

Hunter Orcs on Wargs is $40 for six cavalry figures, or $6.66 each for plastic figures. That's far above the $29.75 cavalry figures cost in Lord of the Rings. Hunter Orcs on foot is $35 for 12 figure, or $2.91 each. Same deal. These are perhaps the only box set past the core set that's remotely close to being worth considering picking up, although you do of course need to purchase multiple copies.

The Great Eagles are $50 for two models, and although they are large figures, the cost of amassing a sizable flock of them becomes prohibitive past the first box set.

The Finecast stuff quickly goes off the rails. Riddles in the Dark is $35 for three half-size figures on 25mm bases, one of which is a terrain piece and Bilbo you already get in the basic boxed game. Bolg is $25, which is an absurd price for even a half-ogre-sized figure, made of Finecast or not. The Goblin Captain is $15, an absurd price for a half-size figure, made of Finecast or not. Fimbul the Hunter on foot and mounted, is a ludicrous $40, Finecast or not.

The White Council is an absurd, ludicrous price that's not even worth considering. *Four* human-sized figures for $75?! You mean $18.75 each?! Made of Finecast or not, that's just beyond the pale.

I guess I'll have to be happy with just getting the basic box set then...

But then I notice the mini rulebook included in the starter set contains no rules for the figures whatsoever. I mean no points whatsoever. This is a first for the strategy battle game. Every previous rulebook has had a complete profile section, even if the included models were different. GW has not made *any* mention of this change on their website, or in White Dwarf.

No painting guide included with the box set or with the White Dwarf I paid good money for. No, now Games Workshop expects you to pay extra for a digital painting guide, available as a digital download from Apple's iBookstore. But even then the quality isn't good, and the Dark Angels painting guide was reputed to be quite poor.

This isn't a huge problems for me, since I'm an experienced painter and tutorials are available at http://taleofpainters.blogspot.de/search/label/The%20Hobbit but I feel very sorry for any kid just getting into the hobby today.

"Sorry Billy, thanks for coughing up the cash for your The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey starter box set, but it looks like you'll have to cough even *more* cash for the digital download if you want to find out how to paint your models... Oh and the rulebook, you'll have to pony up an extra $85 for the rules manual for points and scenarios if you want to find out how to actually *play a game* with your new "starter" box figures."

If everything beyond the starter set figures is so overpriced, and even multiples of the goblins and the terrain pieces are so expensive, why get into it at all?

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

I'm surprised you don't have any LOTR. I'd suggest picking some up second hand if you can since you can get pretty much everyone bar the dwarves from pre-hobbit days.

 BryllCream wrote:
I'm surprised you don't have any LOTR. I'd suggest picking some up second hand if you can since you can get pretty much everyone bar the dwarves from pre-hobbit days.

I've got a ton of LotR, that's the thing, which makes my decision not to get into The Hobbit that much more painful. But to buy the basic set, an extra couple sets of Goblin Tow, and an extra couple sets of Goblin Warriors, the cost is just astronomical, and they doesn't even include the Hunter Orcs and the Eagles.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

I really like LotR, it's a universe that I like many of everyone else around here grew up with, and I figured the new Hobbit starter might be a fun way to acquire some cool new models to paint where people would actually know what's in my model case for once...

Not any more.

Thanks for the warning Chris!

I cant convince you to get into the Hobbit as I have no conviction to do so myself

LoTR SBG was a great game and the base ruleset is IMO the best there is .

GW mucked about with LoTR with the new ' Codexe$ ' . To my regret I weakened and purchased a Mordor ' Codex ' that I will never use .

I am afraid the Hobbit looks like a damp squib - maybe when the Films get into large battle scenes this will get it some more interest , but the prices seem high and must be off-putting .

If GW think there will be another cash bubble from this , they are going to be mistaken ,

If it is just a price thing, wait for Tre Manor's shirelings, dwarves and goblins to go plastic and buy them. They are in the same scale as the LOTR stuff.

The Hobbit is not worth your money. Seriously.

 chris_valera wrote:
Now, I realize New Line Cinema tripled the licensing costs, but still.

I don't know if that has ever been officially stated or if it is just part of web speculation with super secret sources...

But even if it were true, the impact of that would likely be going from 5 cents per figure to 15 cents per figure. Even the most lucrative of licensing deals do not generally impact the price of the products significantly. If you take a look at other products which are under the Hobbit license - you don't see that significant (or any for that matter) change in the price from the Hobbit to the generic or non-Hobbit products.

That said - I wouldn't. Not just because it is GW and I don't care for them. Not just because you get very little for your money. Not because the game really isn't there yet (still not enough released to do much gaming with...). Not just because what is there is somewhat...white bread. But because of all of that.

A friend was given a copy of the game by his wife. We went ahead and took a look at it and figured we would put the figures together and give it a spin. While it wasn't a horrible game, it wasn't exactly something memorable. In fact, I recall more about the football game that was playing on TV than the actual game itself - and that normally doesn't happen. Probably the best thing going for it is the goblin king is big - maybe 2 and a half inches or so. Other than that - I was underwhelmed.

My FLGS is already selling off all of its stock of Hobbit miniatures at 25% off. That's just a reflection on just how much the community can't be bothered with the game really. With the previous Lord of the Rings game you at least has a reason to play big battles with various forces, but the fluff for the Hobbit for the most part is about the same small band of dwarfes twatting x number of creatures. ...Riveting. The quality of the regiment boxes isn't terrible, but its not spectacular. Given a decade since they first started producing the line I'd expected more. But rather its the case that the price goes up, but the overall quality either remains the same or goes down verus GW's competitors. I didn't pick up any of the kits for £15 and they're still sitting on the shelves in my FLGS, so I guess nobody else can be bothered either.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
My FLGS is already selling off all of its stock of Hobbit miniatures at 25% off. That's just a reflection on just how much the community can't be bothered with the game really. With the previous Lord of the Rings game you at least has a reason to play big battles with various forces, but the fluff for the Hobbit for the most part is about the same small band of dwarfes twatting x number of creatures. ...Riveting. The quality of the regiment boxes isn't terrible, but its not spectacular. Given a decade since they first started producing the line I'd expected more. But rather its the case that the price goes up, but the overall quality either remains the same or goes down verus GW's competitors. I didn't pick up any of the kits for £15 and they're still sitting on the shelves in my FLGS, so I guess nobody else can be bothered either.

Wow, really? Which FLGS? Contact info?

I know the prices went up, but so did the licensing costs, which tripled. I wanted to be fair to GW, but the prices make it just too hard to get into LotR

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

I thought I'd have someone to play, I would get into it.

Static Games in the Scotland, but I doubt there's any point in shipping the things to Canada given the shipping fees...

Actually they're selling off a load of the kits that don't see right now it appears. I got a box of ogres for the same price and saw a set of ghouls going for £12 I think. The money's not really in GW products here I don't think seeing as they sell the kits with a bit of the price cut off, and that nearly everyone who shops there gets a 10% discount on top of that due to being part of local wargaming clubs.

...No, before the thought even came to mind I was told I couldn't get an additional discount on the stuff that's already on sale. Hmph. =(

I'm interested in what GW do with The Hobbit in the long run, but at this point I'm not really tempted to get the boxed set. It has some nice looking stunties in it, but other than that, meh.

 chris_valera wrote:


First, the prices. You can't have a discussion about Games Workshop without touching on the prices. Now, I realize New Line Cinema tripled the licensing costs, but still

Herolix sold their first LOTR set for 2.99 a blind box. That was their price for the Hobbit too. Their quality isn't comparable; but they didn't hike up the cost 1 cent due to licensing.

Contact Reese at Frontline gaming. Theyre TRYING to give their Hobbit stuff away at @ 50% off MSRP. IIRC

 gregor_xenos wrote:
Contact Reese at Frontline gaming. Theyre TRYING to give their Hobbit stuff away at @ 50% off MSRP. IIRC

Wow. Temping if true.

 Byte wrote:

 gregor_xenos wrote:
Contact Reese at Frontline gaming. Theyre TRYING to give their Hobbit stuff away at @ 50% off MSRP. IIRC

Wow. Temping if true.

Yeah I'd actually be tempted just to add cool LoTR minis to my hobby case

Problem with iPad releases is that not everyone has an iPad. I use other systems, android and another. How am I supposed to use their protocol? Another lost sale for GW as I would like to have e-versions of their rules and codecies.

xraytango wrote:
Problem with iPad releases is that not everyone has an iPad. I use other systems, android and another. How am I supposed to use their protocol? Another lost sale for GW as I would like to have e-versions of their rules and codecies.

I can get on board with this, reasonable priced ebook variants available on google books, kindle and apple would be a solid win for everyone

I love LOTR but the pricing of the mediocre sculpts has kept me away from the Hobbit. I was even "chomping at the bit" months ago with the prospect of the new movies, putting aside money specifically for LOTR models! However, GW in their British way of doing business has decided to release some of the ugliest sculpts ever at some very ridiculous prices.

I am a huge LOTR fan and was definitely part of GW's "LOTR Profit Bubble" 10 years ago. Move forward to 2013 and instead of being first in line to purchase models from my local GW store, I am now hesitant and perplexed. Did they not learn from the first go around? It makes me sad. Oh well, ebay here I come.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
My FLGS is already selling off all of its stock of Hobbit miniatures at 25% off. That's just a reflection on just how much the community can't be bothered with the game really. With the previous Lord of the Rings game you at least has a reason to play big battles with various forces, but the fluff for the Hobbit for the most part is about the same small band of dwarfes twatting x number of creatures. ...Riveting. The quality of the regiment boxes isn't terrible, but its not spectacular. Given a decade since they first started producing the line I'd expected more. But rather its the case that the price goes up, but the overall quality either remains the same or goes down verus GW's competitors. I didn't pick up any of the kits for £15 and they're still sitting on the shelves in my FLGS, so I guess nobody else can be bothered either.

I was digging though my local private store clearance bin and they had the warg riders or whatever at 50% off. I held it up and said...really, already? He said yeah... I asked him if GW made him buy the hobbit stuff for the store and he said yes, but did not make him buy a lot. That's prob how GW got their sales lol. Making the local private store owners buy it to sale so GW gets their money up front.

GW does have some steep prices and that's why I only play one game system with them. I'd love to play fantasy, but then it would cut into my primary game of 40k and building those armies. Hobbit and lotr...while I am a fan of the movie and books...no I won't buy them again. I spent about 300$ or more when it came out the first time and had no one to play with. Now the models are in a box rotting. Those did get me into the hobby though.

Nobody wants The Hobbit. My LFGS predicted this after seeing the prices in combination with the actual products and didn't actually bother to order any of the Hobbit releases. He hasn't gotten 1 request from a customer asking if they're in stock, which he typically gets when people can't find a product on the shelf.

If the boxes are still there in a month I may pick up the goblins to use alongside the rest of my Apocalypse Dark Mechanicus Servitor horde. Will they still be there? Probably not. If its cheap people may well just pick it up on a whim. Either way however if flgs are selling it at 50% I'm presuming that that's still high enough a price to be making a profitable margin.

lotr is a good game with, well, the best fluff out of any GW game, its models are pretty nice, and are very cheap on the second hand market
I have a hobbit army, the envy of many lol

Well, the game's fun. That's the best I can do. If you don't think it's good value and you can't find other people who play the game, then why bother?

I don't think the sales are impacted by GW prices. It is the fact that the movie was average (3.5/5 in my opinion) with no real "battle" scenes to inspire people to buy the sets.

Just seeing the other day how much my sister blew on her two kids this holiday season convinced me that there is plenty of room left in parents wallets for GW. Also as I said before, the amount of money people (some posting in the thread) blew on Kickstarters, shows there is also plenty of room in gamers wallets as well.

That people are reporting that stores can't even get rid of the stuff at 50% off shows that price is not issue. It is that the designs for a lot of the figs in the movie were not inspiring or impressive. You think kits of WHFB or 40k would be sitting on the shelf at 50% off? They would disappear the second the sale sign went on.

 Breotan wrote:
The Hobbit is not worth your money. Seriously.

I second this. Its not worth it after the releases so far.

I guess the only way I'd buy any Hobbit minis is if they're in either plastic or metal, and if I really, really, REALLY love them. Not for gaming, but for painting. The bx set is tempting to me, but the price makes me put it on the last of my things to buy.

Hobbit would be worth it if the whole set was $90-100 imo. But instead it's like $560 or some absurd number.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

xraytango wrote:
Problem with iPad releases is that not everyone has an iPad. I use other systems, android and another. How am I supposed to use their protocol? Another lost sale for GW as I would like to have e-versions of their rules and codecies.

I can get on board with this, reasonable priced ebook variants available on google books, kindle and apple would be a solid win for everyone

Ditto. I know a lot of Android/Windows tablet users are downloading PDF's of the rules, simply so they can have them on their tablet. Had they been Apple users, or had they been released through other OS's respective book stores, I have no doubt in my mind that they would have purchased them. More lost sales for GW indeed.