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 CIsaac wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Thing is. I have nothing against the company really. I keep meaning to start it. I want too. But whenever I try, the people who give me advice always start badmouting GW, saying things like "This would cost X from GW" kinda points me away.
Most of the models looked great. PP seems nice, but their fan base around here DOESNT.

I've had similar experiences around these parts. It feels like one of those 'there's nothing as fanatical as the converted' sorts of things in regards to a lot of folks. Also a lot of the WAAC player types went to PP games whereas the casual modellers are the ones I've experienced playing GW (though they have WAACs still) mostly.

It appears you've both run into former GW players who've made the switch due to perceived slights, which is unfortunate. I advise you to treat them like you do anyone who has been burned by any company. Carefully.

hotsauceman, don't let their comparisons drive you away. Let them know that you're aware of the price comparisons. But remember it is the most accessible and simple comparison, even if their opinions are biased.

CIsaac, seeing as you've played the game (I see Menoth in your sig) but not in a rather long time (old point totals), try giving it a go again if you enjoyed it at all the first time. I've come to find that the WAAC people, when viewed from the ruleset, aren't actually WAAC. They just play a game with a tight ruleset, thus can change their playstyles as neccessary to win.


I don't mean to be the defender of PP or to highjack this thread, but mending fences and breaking down biases are something we can all aim for.

The break down of the store is thusly:

A big second hand book rack which contains both RPG splat books and the like and actual fantasy novels, a couple massive book racks (three or so) with all the RPG systems you could dream of, another small shelf with Black library stuff, a couple big walls filled to the brim with GW products and another case with all the WFB and 40k codex. A couple massive paint racks, and a huge paint display case with just about everything in it. The rest of the room has racks dedicated to table top games (think Munchkin, Settlers of Cattan, that type of thing) all the TCG stuff is kept behind the counter and the rest of the walls are taken up with PP (a decent amount but nothing compared to GW), some Infinity (starting to catch on in the local), and flames of war.

The local Warmahordes night is well attended, but nothing like the 40k night. GW rules the local area, and I'd put Flames of War in second place for "most actively played" (not shocking, this is a military town, so military history's popular)

 gunslingerpro wrote:

 CIsaac wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Thing is. I have nothing against the company really. I keep meaning to start it. I want too. But whenever I try, the people who give me advice always start badmouting GW, saying things like "This would cost X from GW" kinda points me away.
Most of the models looked great. PP seems nice, but their fan base around here DOESNT.

I've had similar experiences around these parts. It feels like one of those 'there's nothing as fanatical as the converted' sorts of things in regards to a lot of folks. Also a lot of the WAAC player types went to PP games whereas the casual modellers are the ones I've experienced playing GW (though they have WAACs still) mostly.

It appears you've both run into former GW players who've made the switch due to perceived slights, which is unfortunate. I advise you to treat them like you do anyone who has been burned by any company. Carefully.

hotsauceman, don't let their comparisons drive you away. Let them know that you're aware of the price comparisons. But remember it is the most accessible and simple comparison, even if their opinions are biased.

CIsaac, seeing as you've played the game (I see Menoth in your sig) but not in a rather long time (old point totals), try giving it a go again if you enjoyed it at all the first time. I've come to find that the WAAC people, when viewed from the ruleset, aren't actually WAAC. They just play a game with a tight ruleset, thus can change their playstyles as neccessary to win.


I don't mean to be the defender of PP or to highjack this thread, but mending fences and breaking down biases are something we can all aim for.

For me there's also a rather particular story of a really jerky group of players that really soured me on the deal. I admit that it's personal experience, but I've not seen anything to change my mind about it. Whereas in this area we also one one of the best and most loyal old guard Outriders from the GW halcyon days still running the local scene and he does everything he can to foster a good environment so it's easy to want to stay associated with that.

Yeah, but Jerky and WAAC players can happen in both games. Have had a few 40k players in the past that were banned from events for cheating at the FLGS, but never had a Warmahordes player that got caught cheating yet.

Truly difficult players are pretty rare anyway, thankfully. I've run into only one the last 5 years (and he eventually quit to play other games after being a jerk at three tournaments in a row).

I also do not think WAAC players actually exist. It is like "Politically Correct", a successful invented (or in PC's case, adapted) word with rather ambigeuous meaning whose main purpose is to bash other people over the head with.

 CIsaac wrote:


For me there's also a rather particular story of a really jerky group of players that really soured me on the deal. I admit that it's personal experience, but I've not seen anything to change my mind about it. Whereas in this area we also one one of the best and most loyal old guard Outriders from the GW halcyon days still running the local scene and he does everything he can to foster a good environment so it's easy to want to stay associated with that.

This seems to be a reoccurring theme. The early years of "Play like you have a pair" left a bitter taste in the mouths of a lot of interested gamers.

As for all the people who state PP is a "better" company than GW, no it isn't. Both companies are bad. Have heard from multiple sources that working at PP is horrible. It's poorly run, turnover is high, and relies on a pool eager fanboys to replenish the ranks. Shocking reason for the turnover is the business philosophy of Matt Wilson's wife who runs the business side of the company. If an employee has been with the company for more than two years and hasn't been promoted, is fired. Heard this business philosophy several years ago. Thought it was idiotic then, still think it is idiotic now.

Reason for the shortages a few years ago at PP, they fired two of their three figure casters and planned to have the third train new casters. Problem is, he left the company a month later, leaving them to scramble to rebuild production.

Though one source of this info stressed, don't think any of the other companies are good either. CMoN is also ruthless and not to trust their owner further than you can throw him and even Reaper can have a sharp elbow when it needs it. That source also joked he is now hearing the same "converted" talk ex-GW players/employees had when moving to PP from ex-PP players/employees who are moving to other games and companies.

What about Warlord Games?

silent25 wrote:

 CIsaac wrote:


For me there's also a rather particular story of a really jerky group of players that really soured me on the deal. I admit that it's personal experience, but I've not seen anything to change my mind about it. Whereas in this area we also one one of the best and most loyal old guard Outriders from the GW halcyon days still running the local scene and he does everything he can to foster a good environment so it's easy to want to stay associated with that.

This seems to be a reoccurring theme. The early years of "Play like you have a pair" left a bitter taste in the mouths of a lot of interested gamers.

As for all the people who state PP is a "better" company than GW, no it isn't. Both companies are bad. Have heard from multiple sources that working at PP is horrible. It's poorly run, turnover is high, and relies on a pool eager fanboys to replenish the ranks. Shocking reason for the turnover is the business philosophy of Matt Wilson's wife who runs the business side of the company. If an employee has been with the company for more than two years and hasn't been promoted, is fired. Heard this business philosophy several years ago. Thought it was idiotic then, still think it is idiotic now.

Reason for the shortages a few years ago at PP, they fired two of their three figure casters and planned to have the third train new casters. Problem is, he left the company a month later, leaving them to scramble to rebuild production.

Though one source of this info stressed, don't think any of the other companies are good either. CMoN is also ruthless and not to trust their owner further than you can throw him and even Reaper can have a sharp elbow when it needs it. That source also joked he is now hearing the same "converted" talk ex-GW players/employees had when moving to PP from ex-PP players/employees who are moving to other games and companies.

Source?

silent25 wrote:

 CIsaac wrote:


For me there's also a rather particular story of a really jerky group of players that really soured me on the deal. I admit that it's personal experience, but I've not seen anything to change my mind about it. Whereas in this area we also one one of the best and most loyal old guard Outriders from the GW halcyon days still running the local scene and he does everything he can to foster a good environment so it's easy to want to stay associated with that.

This seems to be a reoccurring theme. The early years of "Play like you have a pair" left a bitter taste in the mouths of a lot of interested gamers.

As for all the people who state PP is a "better" company than GW, no it isn't. Both companies are bad. Have heard from multiple sources that working at PP is horrible. It's poorly run, turnover is high, and relies on a pool eager fanboys to replenish the ranks. Shocking reason for the turnover is the business philosophy of Matt Wilson's wife who runs the business side of the company. If an employee has been with the company for more than two years and hasn't been promoted, is fired. Heard this business philosophy several years ago. Thought it was idiotic then, still think it is idiotic now.

Reason for the shortages a few years ago at PP, they fired two of their three figure casters and planned to have the third train new casters. Problem is, he left the company a month later, leaving them to scramble to rebuild production.



Though one source of this info stressed, don't think any of the other companies are good either. CMoN is also ruthless and not to trust their owner further than you can throw him and even Reaper can have a sharp elbow when it needs it. That source also joked he is now hearing the same "converted" talk ex-GW players/employees had when moving to PP from ex-PP players/employees who are moving to other games and companies.

Stuff like the two years "up or out" rule isn't really new nor is it just a PP thing. It seems to have prevailed in some business schools. I worked for a major computer company for 6 years, and they had the same philosophy. Keep in mind this is also a 60,000 employee company. It's a way to keep folks on their toes and remove dead weight (or that was the party line anyway).

 darefsky wrote:


Stuff like the two years "up or out" rule isn't really new nor is it just a PP thing. It seems to have prevailed in some business schools. I worked for a major computer company for 6 years, and they had the same philosophy. Keep in mind this is also a 60,000 employee company. It's a way to keep folks on their toes and remove dead weight (or that was the party line anyway).

This seems like an absurd line of reasoning. It requires that number of positions above any other given position are equal in number or you'll have to fire people by virtue of there not being enough room at the top. You could have a gaggle of people who are fundamentally great at their jobs and simply not the best for whatever higher positions opened (if any did at all), in that two-year window. You then fire them and get total incompetents in their place. In fact that seems almost certain to happen. If anything it feels like the best this could accomplish is keeping a higher percentage of new hires in entry level positions to avoid having to give out salary increases or to keep them in trial or contract positions and thus pay out fewer benefits.. or both.

Then again I'm not a fancy schmancy business school graduate so whatever.

Chongara wrote:

 darefsky wrote:


Stuff like the two years "up or out" rule isn't really new nor is it just a PP thing. It seems to have prevailed in some business schools. I worked for a major computer company for 6 years, and they had the same philosophy. Keep in mind this is also a 60,000 employee company. It's a way to keep folks on their toes and remove dead weight (or that was the party line anyway).

This seems like an absurd line of reasoning. It requires that number of positions above any other given position are equal in number or you'll have to fire people by virtue of there not being enough room at the top. You could have a gaggle of people who are fundamentally great at their jobs and simply not the best for whatever higher positions opened (if any did at all), in that two-year window. You then fire them and get total incompetents in their place. In fact that seems almost certain to happen. If anything it feels like the best this could accomplish is keeping a higher percentage of new hires in entry level positions to avoid having to give out salary increases or to keep them in trial or contract positions and thus pay out fewer benefits.. or both.

Then again I'm not a fancy schmancy business school graduate so whatever.

 darefsky wrote:

Chongara wrote:

 darefsky wrote:


Stuff like the two years "up or out" rule isn't really new nor is it just a PP thing. It seems to have prevailed in some business schools. I worked for a major computer company for 6 years, and they had the same philosophy. Keep in mind this is also a 60,000 employee company. It's a way to keep folks on their toes and remove dead weight (or that was the party line anyway).

This seems like an absurd line of reasoning. It requires that number of positions above any other given position are equal in number or you'll have to fire people by virtue of there not being enough room at the top. You could have a gaggle of people who are fundamentally great at their jobs and simply not the best for whatever higher positions opened (if any did at all), in that two-year window. You then fire them and get total incompetents in their place. In fact that seems almost certain to happen. If anything it feels like the best this could accomplish is keeping a higher percentage of new hires in entry level positions to avoid having to give out salary increases or to keep them in trial or contract positions and thus pay out fewer benefits.. or both.

Then again I'm not a fancy schmancy business school graduate so whatever.

And now you know the reason the companies stock was once in the $60 range and now hovers around $12....

A retired friend who was hired as a manager at a company that practiced this (not PP), told me it doesn't promote the most productive employees, it promotes the most political (aka brown nosers) employees. All you have are people that can convince others they are doing a good job, not necessarily an actual good job. He didn't stay there long before deciding it was a good idea to leave before he engaged in acts of physical violence

Also, if you ever have a chance to meet Mike McVey in person, give the man a hug. He has had the unfortunate experience of having a major dump be taken on him by both GW and PP.
*edit* and no, he is not the source of my information.

silent25 wrote:

 CIsaac wrote:


For me there's also a rather particular story of a really jerky group of players that really soured me on the deal. I admit that it's personal experience, but I've not seen anything to change my mind about it. Whereas in this area we also one one of the best and most loyal old guard Outriders from the GW halcyon days still running the local scene and he does everything he can to foster a good environment so it's easy to want to stay associated with that.

This seems to be a reoccurring theme. The early years of "Play like you have a pair" left a bitter taste in the mouths of a lot of interested gamers.

Yup. My experiences happened right in the middle of that marketing theme. WAAC was a way of life for those players I played.

A conversation went something like this -- with some minor editing most conversations were essentially the same:

Me: "I just started playing. I've got Menoth and I'm halfway through painting them. Would you like a friendly game? I could use some practice."
WAAC Player: "You have Menoth? They're too powerful right now. I won't play friendly games with you. I will pull out my Tourney list."
Me: "Um. I don't even have all my models assembled so can't field a balanced list yet."
WAAC Player: "You shouldn't have picked Menoth. You must have known they were the best when you picked them."
Me: "I like the color scheme and I like paladins and knights. What more of a reason do I need?"
WAAC Player: "You should really do more internet research before picking your army. Go buy another and I'll play a friendly list."
Me: "I can't afford that."
WAAC Player: "Your problem, not mine. Don't play Menoth around here unless it's a tourney."

I haven't pulled my Menoth army out except to inspect them after moving apartments since then. It's a shame. They were some really nice models.

Why didn't you tell the guy to piss off and find another opponent? Menoth are certainly not the strongest faction. Just look at the constantly cycling top spots at the major tournaments, there simply is no top faction.

That guy would be a dick regardless of the game you are playing. Why not instead do some networking and exchange contact info with other people playing the game? It works so much better than hoping for a pick up game.

Send the guy a link to this thread so he can read how he's a chump for not being willing to play a new person just because they play a specific faction.

agustin wrote:
Why didn't you tell the guy to piss off and find another opponent? Menoth are certainly not the strongest faction. Just look at the constantly cycling top spots at the major tournaments, there simply is no top faction.

That guy would be a dick regardless of the game you are playing. Why not instead do some networking and exchange contact info with other people playing the game? It works so much better than hoping for a pick up game.

Send the guy a link to this thread so he can read how he's a chump for not being willing to play a new person just because they play a specific faction.

This happened a few years back. Apotheosis was just coming out, I remember. I don't remember the guy's name and it was basically the viewpoint of the entire WM league, as that conversation happened in several different versions. At the time it was the only shop in the area I could find that had it. I had, before that, ordered all the models online and only been playing with one friend who owned just the Khador starter box using only the models from my starter box. I bought some more, found where the one league in DFW was at the time, and then... that happened.

That sucks. I don't think Menoth was the strongest in MK1 either though. The crap you could pull with Legion, for example, was ridiculous in comparison-- though even then I'm not sure I could pick a clear strongest faction.

Have things changed over the intervening years? Perhaps it's time to see the beautiful models on the table? I bet you could find entirely new opponents if those guys are still around and mired in their group-think like that.

Apotheosis was during the broken times of MKI. It was similar to people complaining about GK at the end of 40k 5th.

That said, that guy was quite clearly an asshat.

I have never ever played against a waac opponent. Never ever has anyone tried to f* me in the ass because I happened to be a newbie.

What they did was playing the game to the maximum. They destroyed me the first few times, but I actually felt very good after those game. It showed me that the game had a lot to offer. 40k/40k is all about rolling some dice. WH/Ho is about knowing the rules, coming up with combinations and finding weaknesses in the opponents play.

I loved getting destroyed for it showed my this game offered depth and a way to improve on your own abilities.

I think a lot of people mistake playing the game to win for "WAAC" playing. The way to counteract that is to make it entirely clear you want to play a casual, relaxed, learning game.

I mean, I've been playing WMH for almost 6 years now, and I sometimes get my rear handed to me unexpectedly now and then. That just means I will never fall for that trap again

Eh, Warmahordes players bleed just like everyone else.

agustin wrote:
That sucks. I don't think Menoth was the strongest in MK1 either though. The crap you could pull with Legion, for example, was ridiculous in comparison-- though even then I'm not sure I could pick a clear strongest faction.

Have things changed over the intervening years? Perhaps it's time to see the beautiful models on the table? I bet you could find entirely new opponents if those guys are still around and mired in their group-think like that.

Yeah. That store shut down. More stores carry the product and even offer a permanent 25% off. I'm still working on getting my Space Marine army modeled though and I'm having real trouble getting any motivation to touch any of the old, unpainted, metal slugs of models from MK1 still in the closet. I already sold some unpainted Skorne models for more marine terminators.

The old 'never get a second chance to make a first impression' thing, I guess.

 angel of ecstasy wrote:
Eh, Warmahordes players bleed just like everyone else.

Source?

 CIsaac wrote:

Yup. My experiences happened right in the middle of that marketing theme. WAAC was a way of life for those players I played.

A conversation went something like this -- with some minor editing most conversations were essentially the same:

Me: "I just started playing. I've got Menoth and I'm halfway through painting them. Would you like a friendly game? I could use some practice."
WAAC Player: "You have Menoth? They're too powerful right now. I won't play friendly games with you. I will pull out my Tourney list."
Me: "Um. I don't even have all my models assembled so can't field a balanced list yet."
WAAC Player: "You shouldn't have picked Menoth. You must have known they were the best when you picked them."
Me: "I like the color scheme and I like paladins and knights. What more of a reason do I need?"
WAAC Player: "You should really do more internet research before picking your army. Go buy another and I'll play a friendly list."
Me: "I can't afford that."
WAAC Player: "Your problem, not mine. Don't play Menoth around here unless it's a tourney."

I haven't pulled my Menoth army out except to inspect them after moving apartments since then. It's a shame. They were some really nice models.

That situation isn't unique to warmachine in all honesty. I ran into the same situation with my grey knight army that I got in trade from a guy trying to get out the 40k hobby. The guys I know locally refuse to play them, and if they somehow do manage to agree to play it becomes an exercise in them giving up at the first possible opportunity, followed by a 20 minute bitch fest where they assume I am supposed be that crying shoulder for them as they bitch and bitch. Now I don't even bother bringing that army an more (I guess I am lucky I have multiple armies). I only get to play them at tournaments, but otherwise the army is just collecting dust. Which is a shame since they are really nice models.

 Blood Hawk wrote:

That situation isn't unique to warmachine in all honesty. I ran into the same situation with my grey knight army that I got in trade from a guy trying to get out the 40k hobby. The guys I know locally refuse to play them, and if they somehow do manage to agree to play it becomes an exercise in them giving up at the first possible opportunity, followed by a 20 minute bitch fest where they assume I am supposed be that crying shoulder for them as they bitch and bitch. Now I don't even bother bringing that army an more (I guess I am lucky I have multiple armies). I only get to play them at tournaments, but otherwise the army is just collecting dust. Which is a shame since they are really nice models.

It's much more discouraging when trying to get into a game initially and when still trying to learn, trust me.

Maybe I'll try it again, one day, but I've got a lot on my hobby plate before that and I'm in no hurry.

 gunslingerpro wrote:
Games Workshop has seemingly embraced that they are a model company, and have removed themselves from the gaming portion of the industry.

I guess thats a good thing, as their rules systems have continued to get worse. I am about to build a 40k army (leaning towards Tau) and finishing my wifes Daemons army. Im going to play my army a little bit in 6th 40k rules with a friend of mine, but both my army and my wifes will be used with the Shockforce/Warengine rules system when we play at home.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blood Hawk wrote:

 CIsaac wrote:

Yup. My experiences happened right in the middle of that marketing theme. WAAC was a way of life for those players I played.

A conversation went something like this -- with some minor editing most conversations were essentially the same:

Me: "I just started playing. I've got Menoth and I'm halfway through painting them. Would you like a friendly game? I could use some practice."
WAAC Player: "You have Menoth? They're too powerful right now. I won't play friendly games with you. I will pull out my Tourney list."
Me: "Um. I don't even have all my models assembled so can't field a balanced list yet."
WAAC Player: "You shouldn't have picked Menoth. You must have known they were the best when you picked them."
Me: "I like the color scheme and I like paladins and knights. What more of a reason do I need?"
WAAC Player: "You should really do more internet research before picking your army. Go buy another and I'll play a friendly list."
Me: "I can't afford that."
WAAC Player: "Your problem, not mine. Don't play Menoth around here unless it's a tourney."

I haven't pulled my Menoth army out except to inspect them after moving apartments since then. It's a shame. They were some really nice models.

That situation isn't unique to warmachine in all honesty. I ran into the same situation with my grey knight army that I got in trade from a guy trying to get out the 40k hobby. The guys I know locally refuse to play them, and if they somehow do manage to agree to play it becomes an exercise in them giving up at the first possible opportunity, followed by a 20 minute bitch fest where they assume I am supposed be that crying shoulder for them as they bitch and bitch. Now I don't even bother bringing that army an more (I guess I am lucky I have multiple armies). I only get to play them at tournaments, but otherwise the army is just collecting dust. Which is a shame since they are really nice models.

A buddy of mine is just getting into 40k and picked GK, even before learning about them, just because ho likes the models and the whole "holy crusader" thing. Ive warned him several times that he will have a hard time finding a pick-up game, as many people want nothing to do with GK. Honesly, Im not really looking forward to playing them that much, as I know that once he gets better with the rules and gaming tactics in general Ill get pasted every time.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Thing is. I have nothing against the company really. I keep meaning to start it. I want too. But whenever I try, the people who give me advice always start badmouting GW, saying things like "This would cost X from GW" kinda points me away.
Most of the models looked great. PP seems nice, but their fan base around here DOESNT.

Pointing out cost differences doesn't mean you're bad mouthing GW. I'm a Henchman for Malifaux, my main job is to convince someone that Malifaux is the game for them, I tell them of the small model counts, the low cost of entry, and the unique mechanics you don't find in most other wargames (the card flipping, cheating fate, and alternating activations). But I'm also loyal to my FLGS because they're more supportive of my actions than my old store (I live an hour from the store I hench at, but it's only a 15 min drive from work lol ). So when the store owner is busy running his business and Magic Tournaments, I tend to field ANY questions about any of the war games he has in the store, which are 40k, Fantasy, Hobbit/Lord of the Rings, Flames of War, and Malifaux, all games I play. I try to find out what the person is looking for, if they want a small game, I point them towards Malifaux, the Hobbit, and Flames of War (for half of the Open Fire Box and 3 more tanks, I have a 1500 point army that I can play with little issue), if they want large battles, I suggest 40k, Fantasy, or Flames, if they want low cost... you get the point.

Anecdote spoilered below


I feel as though you're suggesting they're badmouthing GW with a phrase like that, but "This would cost X from GW" is simply a way of measuring costs. I can tell you that 50 dollars of GW will get you enough to start an army, but it'd be a lie, wheras I can say, "50 bucks will get you this Warmachine starter, or this Malifaux starter, deck, and rulebook and with each you'd have enough to play full, legal games. But w/e just try the games, if you have issues with the people that play them, buy a box or two and play at home with friends who won't be total wads to you.

 CIsaac wrote:

silent25 wrote:

 CIsaac wrote:


For me there's also a rather particular story of a really jerky group of players that really soured me on the deal. I admit that it's personal experience, but I've not seen anything to change my mind about it. Whereas in this area we also one one of the best and most loyal old guard Outriders from the GW halcyon days still running the local scene and he does everything he can to foster a good environment so it's easy to want to stay associated with that.

This seems to be a reoccurring theme. The early years of "Play like you have a pair" left a bitter taste in the mouths of a lot of interested gamers.

Yup. My experiences happened right in the middle of that marketing theme. WAAC was a way of life for those players I played.

A conversation went something like this -- with some minor editing most conversations were essentially the same:

Me: "I just started playing. I've got Menoth and I'm halfway through painting them. Would you like a friendly game? I could use some practice."
WAAC Player: "You have Menoth? They're too powerful right now. I won't play friendly games with you. I will pull out my Tourney list."
Me: "Um. I don't even have all my models assembled so can't field a balanced list yet."
WAAC Player: "You shouldn't have picked Menoth. You must have known they were the best when you picked them."
Me: "I like the color scheme and I like paladins and knights. What more of a reason do I need?"
WAAC Player: "You should really do more internet research before picking your army. Go buy another and I'll play a friendly list."
Me: "I can't afford that."
WAAC Player: "Your problem, not mine. Don't play Menoth around here unless it's a tourney."

I haven't pulled my Menoth army out except to inspect them after moving apartments since then. It's a shame. They were some really nice models.

I've been playing WM in the Dallas area since 2004 and never encountered this type of behavior. Which did this happen at and when?

knightdrake wrote:

I've been playing WM in the Dallas area since 2004 and never encountered this type of behavior. Which did this happen at and when?

As I mentioned before, the store has shut down. It was about 06-07. I don't remember the name, but it was in the North Dallas suburbs. Richardson/Plano area I believe. The store was a mix of Mini gaming and Cyber Cafe with computers filling the areas that tables didn't.

I was a Pressganger at that time at Gamewyze in Plano, which fits your description. Really sad to learn someone treated you that way. If it was at Gamewyze, I ran that league and allowed playing games against non-league members to count. Gave them a +1 hospitality bonus for doing so as I believe no gamer should miss out. I would of been all over them for that attitude.

Time has passed on this but if this experience was at Gamewyze then accept a late apology as I don't run a group with that type of attitude.

it always did seem warmahordes had a more power game-y feel to it, which I abhor in a game
the simple concept of a game being fun is a rare thing these days, with warhammer, I'd not even take my army out if they were playing one of the broken armies.
I didn't feel like taking all those orcs or goblins out to be slaughtered turn 2
complete waste of time, I'm not a noob anymore, I know what I want from the miniature hobby and fighting internet lists tooled to table you before you can do much of anything is not my idea of fun (or even vice versa)
as nice as the trolls and minions are, I don't think I'll be taking up the actual game anytime soon