Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Melissia wrote:
Maybe we could convince a yaoi fangirl to play Space Marines.

While I usually do agree with you Melissia, I'm afraid that I will not be the one to release a yaoi loving player upon the fanbase. I already nearly started christian J-pop out of spite for the world. Now this?

Although it shames me to admit it, i do find i tend to take notice of posts more if i know or highly suspect they are written by woman. I'd really prefer that i didn't do this though as it makes me feel slightly stalkerish.

At my closest gw theres a girl who collects nids. She has them painted dark green and purple though. She is a goth though so i suppose she might have a tendency for dark colours anyway...

 ShatteredBlade wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Maybe we could convince a yaoi fangirl to play Space Marines.

While I usually do agree with you Melissia, I'm afraid that I will not be the one to release a yaoi loving player upon the fanbase. I already nearly started christian J-pop out of spite for the world. Now this?

I'm pretty sure she is already in the hobby, she probably plays Orks.

Firstly to the OP. The video was good, its nice hearing a girl's experience on 40k.
On an unrelated note, your hair looks great. Keep that color and style!

CrowSplat wrote:
It's funny how the tyranid thing seems to be a pretty universal observation. About half of the women I've seen playing have been nids and the other half have been pretty varied. The only army I have never seen a woman play is SoB.

My wife does not like the SoBs at all. I thought if I could get her to paint anything it would be SoBs, but was dead wrong. She muttered something about the 'butch haircuts' of SoBs and hates the models.

As far as '40k women', I have only played one in my life. She played necrons.

To be honest, you don't just see strange treatment of women in gaming circles. Head out to a bar where there is only a couple of women and a bunch of guys and you will see a bunch of "normal" guys being fricking idiots.

The behaviour may be different but its still not that normal.

If you frequent stores with older customers, you will tend to see more normal behaviour towards women - it will still tend to be different to how they act towards other men but it won't tend to be quite as weird as they will have more experience interacting with women, be married, etc.

In relation to the armies "women" play, there was a girl at my universities wargaming society who played WHFB Brets. There is a woman staffer at my local GW. I don't know what she plays, though she painted herself green to be an ork at haloween, so maybe she plays orks (I only go in to the GW every few months to look at the painted model displays).

My wife had, when she was young, a lizardman army from the WHFB starter that her brother split with her. And she had a few wood elf models as well. She has no interest in the game now and refuses to enter GW stores because of how they make her feel.

 labmouse42 wrote:
Firstly to the OP. The video was good, its nice hearing a girl's experience on 40k.
On an unrelated note, your hair looks great. Keep that color and style!

CrowSplat wrote:
It's funny how the tyranid thing seems to be a pretty universal observation. About half of the women I've seen playing have been nids and the other half have been pretty varied. The only army I have never seen a woman play is SoB.

My wife does not like the SoBs at all. I thought if I could get her to paint anything it would be SoBs, but was dead wrong. She muttered something about the 'butch haircuts' of SoBs and hates the models.

As far as '40k women', I have only played one in my life. She played necrons.

Funnily enough there are only two women who come in to my local GW. One plays Sisters the other plays Slaanesh Deamonettes. IT goes to show aesthetics are never universally pleasing.

Experiment 626 wrote:


High five sister! (I also play Chaos Daemons as my main for a good few year now! )
Who's your favourite God btw? I went with Tzeentch, mainly because I love the fluidity & motion in the (old metal) Pinkies and Flamers, combined alongside the avian look of the Greaters/Heralds.
The only downside of course, being my one kitten who sees something birdy-looking and is constantly trying to kill and eat it...

I love Tzeentch and my army is lead by Kairos or when playing smaller games the herald if tzeentch! I like the idea of the Fateweaver being utterly paranoid and the fact that nothing is ever constant, it just changes. I dream of one day having an entire army only made up of tzeentchy units ^^


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 captain collius wrote:
Also I liked your Sammael very traditional and clean, I would be interested to see more of you paint jobs.

Thanks

I have some more pictures on my blog if you haven't already checked it out: http://www.thewarhammerlady.blogspot.se

Currently I'm working on the Deathwing terminators and I'm working on making a tutorial for them as well.

 Melissia wrote:
Maybe we could convince a yaoi fangirl to play Space Marines.

Even though SM has a lot of homoerotic tropes, I don't really think they work as yaoi fuel.

 SilverMK2 wrote:
To be honest, you don't just see strange treatment of women in gaming circles. Head out to a bar where there is only a couple of women and a bunch of guys and you will see a bunch of "normal" guys being fricking idiots.

Have you ever seen things working in inverse? Where a guy walks into a room with a lot of women.

 ShatteredBlade wrote:
I don't think I've ever seen a Woman play Space marines. Like, in person that is. The two woman at our FLGS play Daemons/Necrons and Sisters of Battle.

There is a female who plays Dark Angels around here and there used to be one who played Blood Angels before she moved a year-or-so ago. The other two female 40k players that I know well are die-hard 'Cron fans. We've got a pretty welcoming group of people here, but when they showed up, it was definitely a bit of a "ooh, who's that!?!" deal, but they've been some of the most successful players in the area (or were when they were playing more before one had a kid and the other got a promotion).

I also don't think that the stigma against gamers is as bad as it once was, however. "Nerd" is making its way as the "in" thing in a lot of places, so maybe we'll be fortunate enough to have more women grace the gaming tables in the future.

Oddly enough, A lot of women I knew who played did like 'crons...

Well, they certainly also fit into the "we can corrupt these with indecent comments" category. What girl wouldn't want an army of BOBs?

nomotog wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:
To be honest, you don't just see strange treatment of women in gaming circles. Head out to a bar where there is only a couple of women and a bunch of guys and you will see a bunch of "normal" guys being fricking idiots.

Have you ever seen things working in inverse? Where a guy walks into a room with a lot of women.

I have. It's why I try to avoid my daughter's Daisy (little girl scouts) troop. I helped set up the float for the Christmas Parade (read:did the whole thing) and it was a little uncomfortable with the flirting and the environment in general. It wasn't confined to the single moms either.

I think it is partly the ratio of male to female and partially in the activity. Stereotypically, women aren't as interested in war, especially in space. Men are attracted to women who share their interests, and they're rare.

nomotog wrote:
Have you ever seen things working in inverse? Where a guy walks into a room with a lot of women.

I'm the only male in an office with about 50 women

I see this every time a young, good looking delivery guy or something comes in.

nomotog wrote:
Have you ever seen things working in inverse? Where a guy walks into a room with a lot of women.

Heh, yea.My son rides horses for Hippotherapy.

Lads! Trust me on this one. If you want to enjoy a hobby where 95% of the people you will meet are young women (teens to mid 20s), go ride horses!

Darrett wrote:
women aren't as interested [...] in space.

That certainly isn't true from my experience... dunno about war, but space and space exploration certainly don't turn off most women in my experiences.

But then again, according to popular media, women HAVE no interests except talking about men, so eh.

 Melissia wrote:

Darrett wrote:
women aren't as interested [...] in space.

That certainly isn't true from my experience... dunno about war, but space and space exploration certainly don't turn off most women in my experiences.

But then again, according to popular media, women HAVE no interests except talking about men, so eh.

Space exploration is one thing, but I was referring to war. The fact that war is occurring in space is just an additional ding against it. Fantasy settings are far more accepted by women it seems. Modern and space settings less so. Even my daughters whom I have desperately tried to get interested in science fiction is more interested in swords and sorcery.

My wife also demands that I correct the record and say her favorite WHFB army is Dwarfs, not Lizardmen.

Warhammerlady wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:


High five sister! (I also play Chaos Daemons as my main for a good few year now! )
Who's your favourite God btw? I went with Tzeentch, mainly because I love the fluidity & motion in the (old metal) Pinkies and Flamers, combined alongside the avian look of the Greaters/Heralds.
The only downside of course, being my one kitten who sees something birdy-looking and is constantly trying to kill and eat it...

I love Tzeentch and my army is lead by Kairos or when playing smaller games the herald if tzeentch! I like the idea of the Fateweaver being utterly paranoid and the fact that nothing is ever constant, it just changes. I dream of one day having an entire army only made up of tzeentchy units ^^

If I were to ever grab Fateweaver, I'd want to base him ala Bart Simpson's first bed that Homer built for him - the psycho clown bed! (partly too because one of my mates had a fear of clowns)
Just love the image of Fatey rocking back and forth muttering, "can't sleep, Tzeentch'll eat me... can't sleep, Tzeentch'll eat me..."

I'd also love to do a mono-Khorne army since I love the whole 'martial honour at odds with the blood-mad butcher' aspect of his daemons, but I've endured a few too many "Red Fury" comments from young'uns thinking themselves cleaver, or older single dudes who's closest encounters with women involve TV screens & akward dreams.
(also the same reason why I can't do Blood Angels...)

 SilverMK2 wrote:
To be honest, you don't just see strange treatment of women in gaming circles. Head out to a bar where there is only a couple of women and a bunch of guys and you will see a bunch of "normal" guys being fricking idiots.

The behaviour may be different but its still not that normal.

If you frequent stores with older customers, you will tend to see more normal behaviour towards women - it will still tend to be different to how they act towards other men but it won't tend to be quite as weird as they will have more experience interacting with women, be married, etc.

The above is typically why at least two or three of my buddies join me the odd time I go out for a night of drinking. (typically due to play-off hockey or after a hard day of 40k tournament gaming!)
A few large, imposing 'older brother' types combined with a helping of The Escalation Game keeps all the morons at bay and in their place.

Warhammerlady wrote:
So for me, I like the variation rather than the brightness of the colors and I think it's the same for most people out there?

Heh. I have trouble painting anything but black, because if I even contemplate such a thing, I take a step back because any other color just doesn't look as good That's why I have trouble with painting C:SM, because they'd turn out looking like my Templars so I'm not sure what to do about it. In addition my Orks end up Goffs (though I've only painted one model so far), and my Chaos Marines will end up some sort of black too.

Admittedly it'll be somewhat monotonous to paint, but at least the end result is a color combination I like. And of course painting black Orks is different from painting black Marines, since there's also green skin involved, and so forth. I will say that I'm more bothered by repetitive-looking poses etc than the similar colors. Yet I'm hesitant to do major conversion works, such as reposing legs and arms.

But by the Emperor, how I hate painting vehicles. Because they need to be black too, and black is especially unforgiving of all the unevenness in the flat surface areas. No such things in infantry so it's fine, but the vehicles are a major pain in the rear! I'd have to sandpaper every damn inch of the vehicles while somehow avoiding sanding off the small details

Oh, and gotta admit that there are a few other color styles I would consider, but they seem a bit too difficult for my nonexistent skills to pull off to the extent that it'd look good enough. Iron Fists and Red Templars are some examples, the subtle black shading of the Red Templars (shown in the Vanguard model picture) seems difficult to get right, and for Iron Fists... well, while metal colors on smaller bits look great, I have trouble with getting it to look good on larger areas (even stuff like Bolters) for some reason.

This vid is the best commentary I've ever heard about gender and wargaming.

 Melissia wrote:

But then again, according to popular media, women HAVE no interests except talking about men, so eh.

Ugh, that old fallacy.

Fluffy Land Raider lol

The OP of this post if sexy as hell. The fact that she is a gamer is just a bonus. I have absolutely nothing constructive to add or say about the content of the video. Just reverting to my base alpha male instincts here...now excuse me while I go sit on the front porch and grunt while smashing anyone who comes near my step with a large piece of wood.

As for some on topic discussion, I had a couple of questions for the OP, but they're not so much centered around gender. In America, a large amount of our gaming takes place in independently run stores (we refer to them as FLGS) and little to no gaming takes place in actual GW stores. In britain, most of their gaming is either at home, or in an official GW store (with the name and everything). Where you live, where do you guys typically play? I saw one of your batrep videos where you guys played at home (btw tell the Death Korps of Krieg guy his army is awesome) but is that a typical thing over there? Basically what I'm asking is, do people over there tend to play in GW stores, at home, independent stores, clubs, etc.?Everywhere seems to be different and I wonder if that has something to do with women joining the hobby. For example, in areas where most playing happens in stores, there will naturally be a higher "barrier" for women to join (for example, when you looked in the window and went "oh boy, I wasn't expecting this") But for areas where people play at home, I could see the "barrier" for women to start playing being much easier. You're with people you know, and there's a much lower chance of running into wierd or awkward moments than if you played in a store. It'd be no different than showing up and playing a game of monopoly essentially.

Secondly, does the game seem to be growing or shrinking in playerbase over there? Over here, we've been seeing a ton of new players with 6th. To keep this one on topic, do you see any chance of more women joining the hobby anytime soon, or do you see yourself as a "rare" occurrence? Guys can sit here and argue whether more women will start playing back and forth all day, but I'm interested to hear a viewpoint from a woman who is in the hobby and knows what it's like.

Thanks for all the insightful posts by the way. Sorry for the "trollish" posts earlier, I tend to do those on every thread. I like to keep things lighthearted.

Just my opinions on the girl gamer thing but i find that throwing yourself out as a 'girl gamer' kind of takes away the equal footing of some of this.

I think the biggest problem of the whole 'girl gamer' thing is not that they are girls at all so much as 'attractive girls' and to be fair those girls get attention everywhere. Online even a sexy voice or the statement that a person is a girl can be enough for some men to hope (including me though sexy voices worry me that this will end up like 'live free or die hard' and my *ss is about to be destroyed). People aren't entirely fair to attractive people including myself. Some of it is justly done as people probably treat them better and give them an easier time but that's what makes some other people mad. A good looking female player may be a decent player or a bad player but she's gonna get that attention. I suppose we just expect female power gamers to be unattractive and/or fat.

I'm sure treatment of women isn't always the greatest online and sometimes it's pretty bad but yeah some pretty lonely dudes are online (myself included) and it's bound to happen. I know it isn't right but you have to admit this thread and others get tons of posts because said gamer states they're a girl. Some of it is unfair bad treatment but some of it is good unfair treatment. I noticed that often girl gamers on another forum i used to go to definitely got noticed more and even got somebody to draw art of them like other forum members while some old guard of the site had been there for 4 years and gotten not one picture of themselves. I know i always hear about the negative treatment and maybe some can be creepy but you have to admit there's positive unfair treatment as well. Sure maybe they just want to get in your pants but how many free drinks have you gotten or other things that you've gotten because you were pretty or a girl? I know plenty of guys that are expected to pay for a whole date. That's not fair.

Also i don't know the case of other game stores but to be fair the couple GW's i have visited have had as a total maybe one or two attractive girls interested in the hobby. It's not entirely a matter of you being the bestest girl that there ever was so much as this is war-gaming and girls aren't interested in it and the few who are often aren't attractive. So yeah when an attractive girl comes along to displace all the dudes and she actually is a nerd it's extremely attractive. I mean there are a ton of dudes and few women in the hobby and what few women there are usually middle level at best from the GW store i went to. Oddly enough female gamers that state so on forums have been fairly attractive as i noticed. Maybe the attractive women are comfortable enough to state they are women?

I still think if a woman wants equal treatment online she should probably just stay anonymous. I know it isn't totally right and voice chat would be hard for them but for now that's what would be equal. I miss the days of adventure games when women actually would play those games. Now the only girls you find that are gamers would probably play rpg's. It's probably just my opinion but there ya go.

I'm sure melissia will kill me for saying this and she seems to state she gets negative attention for being a woman but i've heard on forums that she actually was probably given more lee-way for being a woman. Also if she was a dude with the same personality and interests i'd find people would give a lot less of a crap about her and may in fact insult her more even if the comments would probably be less unfairly sex-based. It's more the fact she seems always angry at everything in my opinion but that's just me. Meh i dunno. I know she'll destroy me for saying that but i felt it had to be said. She's done an insanely good job putting up with me though and even made huge strides towards getting along with me (or at least paying less attention to me at times) so i'll give her that (pretty f*cking applaudable actually).

--------------------------

Not entirely sure what else i wanted to say but yeah it's nice to see nerdy girls around.

I won't lie part of why i commented is because you're attractive but i feel i had some stuff to say about the girl gamer thing. To me it's really attractive when a girl actually enjoys some of these nerdy things esp. warhammer. Normally if i do mention it i brush it under the rug in shame to women. It's very attractive when the gender you're interested in actually enjoys what you do.

I also noticed on another forum that what few girls were on the war-gaming forum about half of them were not interested in guys O_O and if attractive probably had a boyfriend anyway or just weren't interested but then maybe that's just because it's me .

-------------------

Gotta admit, i expected a spam video, glad to be proven wrong. Personally, i don't play the wargame, too expensive for me. If i want to get my ass handed to me in a strategy game, i will play Starcraft. I preferred painting. I originally spurred to this for collecting. Yeah i imagined my army, but i didn't think too much on it. Get models paint them, maybe play. Because i have horrible use of my hands, i felt that the detail for the miniatures would do me good, which i am pleased to report they have. Dead on with picking miniatures & armies. I chose what i think is cool, model, background, and what i could do with it. Thats how i assume everyone else operates unless told otherwise, and why not? its a good way to run by.

In my own off topic, i do love Swedish people. Of all the online games i played and all the nationality's i have encountered, a Swedish Guild was my favorite, joined and discovered that Swedes are ridiculously good looking. Every person in that guild was mind bendingly beautiful, and i didn't even feel bad in their presence. Most times i encounter good looking people they rubbed it in my face, not the Swedes.
*goes off on a thousand tangents of how amazing Swedish people look*
I should get back in touch with them.

One thing that's always puzzled me; I find women are less inclined to roll dice and consult tables. Obviously that isn't universally true, but of the dozen or so RPG/Board Game women I know, they prefer fewer moments of page turning and figuring out statistical probabilities and more storytelling moments. I like the two elements equally.

It might be that aside from the male-centric theme, the very nature of the game is more suited to analytical minds which are stereotypically male. Maybe we shouldn't be rolling to hit -and- to wound if we want the fairer sex to play more frequently.

Whew...30 minutes of my life down the tube.

From 8 pages down to 3, and 98% of those off-topic posts deleted were from the same 5 people!

Look, I'm going to try to make it simple:

If you'd like to post in this thread, make sure your post is related to the TOPIC, which is the content discussed in the video. If you find your conversation drifting into the realms of general societal attitudes towards gender or any other topic not directly related to gender in gaming, then it is up to you to STOP.

If you want to discuss these larger issues, take them to the off-topic forum and start a thread there.

You have been warned. If you are one of those people who had dozens of their posts deleted from this thread already, then you need to be doubly careful that any future posts you make in this thread are completely on-topic as any further OT posts by you in this thread will result in a suspension.


Thanks.

If i were to state an odd trend i noticed with female gamers or women that take any interest in the hobby whatsoever is they generally love to paint. It interests them even if the rest of the hobby doesn't. It confounds me. Women are more artsy overall i guess.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
If i were to state an odd trend i noticed with female gamers or women that take any interest in the hobby whatsoever is they generally love to paint. It interests them even if the rest of the hobby doesn't. It confounds me. Women are more artsy overall i guess.

I can think of few girls who would not enjoy the painting side. Even a few aspects of the fluff can seem interesting to them, at least if you explain it in a certain way, though I wouldn't expect any girl who wasn't a nerd to actually read Black Library.

The gaming side itself, they have little interest in. Can't say I blame them, I'm not sure why I play it most of the time

 BryllCream wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
If i were to state an odd trend i noticed with female gamers or women that take any interest in the hobby whatsoever is they generally love to paint. It interests them even if the rest of the hobby doesn't. It confounds me. Women are more artsy overall i guess.

I can think of few girls who would not enjoy the painting side. Even a few aspects of the fluff can seem interesting to them, at least if you explain it in a certain way, though I wouldn't expect any girl who wasn't a nerd to actually read Black Library.

The gaming side itself, they have little interest in. Can't say I blame them, I'm not sure why I play it most of the time

I'm actually more into fantasy itself now. I think i prefer the tactics in movement though that was mostly ruined with the double-edged sword that is 'steadfast'. I still think flanking should effect steadfast to a greater degree but chances are if that rule's fixed GW will totally mess up something that was never broken in the next fantasy rulebook. Meh go figure.

I feel bad about saying it and i know it might seem trollish considering this is the 40k forum but i'm not as into 40k anymore fluff included. The whole grim-dark emo crap ruined it for me and the fact that yeah you won't be missed and your accomplishments mean little but then you realize your accomplishments mostly mean little to nothing. It's nice you fought 10,000 battles on a 100 worlds including several forge worlds but in the grand scheme of 1 million worlds in the imperium alone you essentially did nothing and it's not like there isn't at least 1k forge worlds even if you do lose a couple. There's only a couple forge worlds like ryza that mostly make certain equipment. Without ryza i'm pretty sure plasma weaponry use would be crippled pretty badly but i'm not sure on all the details. If it wasn't for 40k orks then 40k would be pretty much devoid of humor i think. In fantasy in the last ogres army book my opponent's butcher farted as a miscast to his magic. Childish yes but it was funny. Skaven and orc & goblins are also pretty funny for differing reasons. Also yeah there are no sides really losing in fantasy but the empire has almost been lost multiple times whereas abaddon can't lead one successful black crusade that manages to even go beyond cadia in 40k (what a f*cking failure man). I can see why some might consider 40k a bit childish though. Big dudes in power armor that sometimes sounds like excited 12 year old boys just sat there talking about the most epic-est scene ever. I guess in some ways guys don't really grow up either considering some of us square off superman vs goku or predator vs master chief. Women are pretty big offenders of not growing up either though considering how many like and watch disney movies.

Sorry but i had to rant. Don't ask where that came from but anyway back on topic.

Oddly enough the genres girls tend to like more are probably steampunk and fantasy as opposed to sci-fi and other similar ones. At least that's what i got off it. Women really seem to love steampunk (warmachine too possibly?). I don't think any woman would like wearing a super tight corset though as it'd be hard to breathe. I never get their interests in anime either considering all the boob groping, flashing and panty shots. They'll probably mention they hate that part of it and yet they enjoy anime. They also play mmo-rpg's supposedly because they get to socialize with people. That's odd to me. I suppose i can understand that but i play games to play games. If i wanted to talk i'd go on the phone.