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Well, I'm not gay. So if I'm reading about a gay character, that's just one more barrier that prevents me from putting myself in the characters position, and just makes the authors job more difficult (for me).

I think if space marines are likely to be anything, it would be gay.

I could easily see them having some kind of Ancient Spartan thing going on... there are no women space marines, and all mortals are lesser creatures so not worthy of love. Their still human in terms of their brain structure so they are likely to have some sort of romantic feeling, even if their sex drive hormones are no longer present...

They probably have sex just by oiling up each others bodies, and beating each other to a bloody pulp or something. Naked wrestling probably.

Cogs wrote:
I have been wondering this for a while. Would you be interested in reading fiction about a character and if the character was strong in the game would you add him or her to your lists? I don't want to limit this to 40K or Warmachine, just in general wargaming would this be something you would be interested in seeing or would it turn you off that game or character?

To give you a hint, I named my Marneus Calgar set "Manliest Cougar and the Mournful Patbenatar, starring Heart-Breaker, Love-Taker, Dream-Maker, and Dontchu Messaround."

Also, my DE witches are the Cabal of the Little Monster, led my Lady Gagamel.

I would love--LOVE--to have a suitable not-George Takei model as Captain Oh Mai. For a campaign...

What does a character's sexual orientation have to do with a game? Probably not too much. Kinda.like when Ellen decided to come out (big surprise), her sitcom tanked because everything had to revolve around her new sexuality.

Make things like this an issue, and people stop taking the issue seriously. Just let people be.

I'm surprised at how many people keep saying that a character's sexuality doesn't matter or isn't important. Sexuality is an extremely important aspect of one's identity. Just look at how much it influences everyone's behavior, or even just the English language.

If you really want characters without sexuality, try reading early Asimov, or Sanderson's Elantris. Those sexless characters are totally unbelievable, and it ruins their stories.

 Kaldor wrote:
Well, I'm not gay. So if I'm reading about a gay character, that's just one more barrier that prevents me from putting myself in the characters position, and just makes the authors job more difficult (for me).

So how do you read science fiction at all? If a character's sexual preferences are a huge obstacle how do you deal with the much bigger differences like being a genetically engineered super-soldier equipped with power armor and a chainsaw sword, or fighting giant fungus monsters with a bizarre habit of acting like rioting soccer fans? How can you identify with anyone?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
What does a character's sexual orientation have to do with a game? Probably not too much. Kinda.like when Ellen decided to come out (big surprise), her sitcom tanked because everything had to revolve around her new sexuality.

So we must assume that everyone is straight, and if there's any mention of "his husband waits back home, praying for his safe return from the war" it should be censored as an irrelevant detail? Do you feel the same way about an equivalent statement like "his wife waits back home, praying for his safe return from the war"? Or do you honestly hate any mention of a character's personal life that might get in the way of describing all of their skills at killing people?

It would bother me and I wouldn't read it or play the character.

Why? 99% chance that it turns into some gay romance fan fiction which I have no interest in. Sorry there is too much gay fan fiction out there to convince me otherwise that it is not secretly a gay romance story with 40K as the setting.

In reality I don't care if the character is gay if it has no romance in it, but then if it has no romance then why bother bringing up the character is gay? What relevance does that have to the story? None so then the writing is just trying to be 'modern' or some such crap which tlls me they are most likely a bad writer.

Also my reasoning doesn't apply to all fiction with gay characters, just sci-fi/fantasy with gay characters. The reason again, is fan fiction.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I'm surprised at how many people keep saying that a character's sexuality doesn't matter or isn't important. Sexuality is an extremely important aspect of one's identity. Just look at how much it influences everyone's behavior, or even just the English language.

If you really want characters without sexuality, try reading early Asimov, or Sanderson's Elantris. Those sexless characters are totally unbelievable, and it ruins their stories.

Yes, but from what i have read, marines have no character anyways
that might have changed with the newer books coming out, but before they weren't much beyond praise the emperor, put skulls on everything!
I've not read any recent 40k novels since, well 6th ed sucks to me so, why would I keep following its non moving storyline

Always assumed Slaanesh was into man on man anyway.

More importantly, how to shoehorn a homosexual character into the grim darkness in a way that seems relevant? Not that homosexuality isn't relevant, but when the background focuses on giant armies killing each other, kind of makes you wonder how orientation would be introduced into his/her background without it being a weird snippet.

Would be kinda funny/cool to see I guess.

I don't mind characters I can't relate to, honestly. If anything, the more unrelatable a character is the more likely I'm going to experience something new, really.

We wrote:
Why? 99% chance that it turns into some gay romance fan fiction which I have no interest in. Sorry there is too much gay fan fiction out there to convince me otherwise that it is not secretly a gay romance story with 40K as the setting.

You do realize that the most common genre of fanfiction is "porn in text form" and it's little more than an excuse to write sex scenes with the characters, no matter what combination of genders, right? Maybe you should just be more careful in your choice of reading material and avoid sex fanfic instead of assuming that any story, fanfiction or not, with a gay character is going to turn into a porn story?

In reality I don't care if the character is gay if it has no romance in it, but then if it has no romance then why bother bringing up the character is gay? What relevance does that have to the story? None so then the writing is just trying to be 'modern' or some such crap which tlls me they are most likely a bad writer.

Do you object this strongly every time a (straight) character says something like "I miss my wife back home, why did I join this stupid war"? Do you immediately throw the book away and rant about how it's so stupid that they brought in that irrelevant nonsense?

 Kaldor wrote:
Well, I'm not gay. So if I'm reading about a gay character, that's just one more barrier that prevents me from putting myself in the characters position, and just makes the authors job more difficult (for me).

hahaha are you serious? You know we're in the arena of genetically modified super soldiers and space daemons right?

I can put myself in the place of Drago and really see myself burning down Nurgle's non physical garden and painting my armour with those battle sisters' blood, but if he's gay, well no that's a deal breaker!
Its cool if he doesn't like women but liking men? How can my super special ultra women blood wearing manly demon killer be cool now?!
how can he?!?!?

 Rainbow Dash wrote:

Yes, but from what i have read, marines have no character anyways
that might have changed with the newer books coming out, but before they weren't much beyond praise the emperor, put skulls on everything!
I've not read any recent 40k novels since, well 6th ed sucks to me so, why would I keep following its non moving storyline

I wasn't talking about marines, really. Asexuality works for the marines because it highlights just how inhuman they are (Like an army of Sheldon Coopers.)

However, there is plenty of room for sexuality in the Guard, Inquisition, and other factions. Well-crafted novels tend to rest on the quality of their characters, and their characters' quality often relies on how 'human' they are. One of mankind's primary motivations is love. It would be very difficult to write a good story without even touching on it.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kaldor wrote:
Well, I'm not gay. So if I'm reading about a gay character, that's just one more barrier that prevents me from putting myself in the characters position, and just makes the authors job more difficult (for me).

So how do you read science fiction at all? If a character's sexual preferences are a huge obstacle how do you deal with the much bigger differences like being a genetically engineered super-soldier equipped with power armor and a chainsaw sword, or fighting giant fungus monsters with a bizarre habit of acting like rioting soccer fans? How can you identify with anyone?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
What does a character's sexual orientation have to do with a game? Probably not too much. Kinda.like when Ellen decided to come out (big surprise), her sitcom tanked because everything had to revolve around her new sexuality.

So we must assume that everyone is straight, and if there's any mention of "his husband waits back home, praying for his safe return from the war" it should be censored as an irrelevant detail? Do you feel the same way about an equivalent statement like "his wife waits back home, praying for his safe return from the war"? Or do you honestly hate any mention of a character's personal life that might get in the way of describing all of their skills at killing people?

You absolutely love to white knight and extrapolate on comments to make them out to sound more evil than they are and invent malicious intent when there was none, don't you?

People can write whatever they want. I can choose not to read it. A gay protagonist might be a reason I might choose not to read it, a gay protagonist might not be a reason I might choose not to read it. There's a whole heap of reasons I might choose not to read a book, many of which may be entirely trivial.

I don't think GW has ever written a love story, closest I've read were the trollslayer novels and every woman Felix ends up with either dies or well dies
but since love isn't grimdark they just resort to more killing

or there was Fulgrim where that woman used her blood and her own -MATT WARD CODEX*- to paint that picture

*guess what that word was...

Wouldn't go out of my way to play a character because he/she is gay nor would I avoid the character because he/she is gay. If the character is fun to use, works within the army or squad I'll use. No issue with homosexuality in fluff, it's not like homosexual acts hasn't occurred in the military before (Greece, Rome). As long as it is enjoyable reading I have no problem with it. Wouldn't have an issue with not being able to connect with it because I can' really personally connect with any story involving war.

No problem at all, it might even make the character more interesting. If anyone here can confess to watching the TV series 'Spartacus' they must admit there are some bad-ass gay guys splitting skulls with the best of them, and to the other characters its no issue, they are far more interested in killing Romans, I think the 40k world would be similar.

 Aerethan wrote:
I agree that more often than not, the inclusion of homosexuality as a character trait in fiction is used to appeal to a market that thinks they are more evolved for reading about gay characters.

Are there really that many gay people who yearn to read gay sci fi? If so, it's some massive underground thing that I've never heard of.

And if anything, using homosexuality as a sales tool is offensive to homosexual people.

There's plenty of junk 'gay sf/fantasy' but then there is plenty of junk sf/fantasy as well

there is also some great stories such as those written by Melissa Scott.

For some seeing characters with a similar sexual identity to themselves will help them become immersed in the story

A characters sexuality better be damned relevant to what I am reading.

Is sexuality relevant in a tabletop game, with abstracted rules? I would say no, even with super implicit fluff, stats and rules would determine if a character or unit is played or not.

i.e Look out (behind you) sir. (Joke).

I could see this being of interest in a story driven campaign (possibly) or in an RPG, even then it's up to the players and the GM how obvious or not the sexuality should be or even if this is a factor during gameplay.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kaldor wrote:
Well, I'm not gay. So if I'm reading about a gay character, that's just one more barrier that prevents me from putting myself in the characters position, and just makes the authors job more difficult (for me).

So how do you read science fiction at all? If a character's sexual preferences are a huge obstacle how do you deal with the much bigger differences like being a genetically engineered super-soldier equipped with power armor and a chainsaw sword, or fighting giant fungus monsters with a bizarre habit of acting like rioting soccer fans? How can you identify with anyone?

The Black Library authors aren't, generally speaking, good enough that a characters sexuality becomes an issue. Worrying about that when reading about Space Marines or Orks is like worrying that your tire pressure might be a little low when your car is being engulfed in flames. There's bigger issues at hand.

What does someone's sexuality have anything to do with their ability to shoot someone in the face?

 Stormphoenix wrote:
What does someone's sexuality have anything to do with their ability to shoot someone in the face?

Are you only reading a book to read descriptions of people getting shot in the face?

 Kaldor wrote:
The Black Library authors aren't, generally speaking, good enough that a characters sexuality becomes an issue. Worrying about that when reading about Space Marines or Orks is like worrying that your tire pressure might be a little low when your car is being engulfed in flames. There's bigger issues at hand.

But you said you have a harder time identifying with a gay character, which is completely different from this. I brought up the 40k stuff because those things are a MUCH bigger difference than simply being attracted to different people, so if you have a hard time identifying with a gay character then it must be impossible for you to identify with a space marine.

And thank you for convincing me to ignore the 40k novels. If they're really so shallow that the only thing that matters is constant battle with no time spent on character development, personal lives, etc, then I really don't see why anyone (well, anyone over 15) would ever want to read them.

 Stormphoenix wrote:
What does someone's sexuality have anything to do with their ability to shoot someone in the face?

A lot. It is a motivating force, let's say.

If you love someone, and just happen to be fighting on the front line with them, you might just fight a little bit harder.

Cogs wrote:
I have been wondering this for a while. Would you be interested in reading fiction about a character and if the character was strong in the game would you add him or her to your lists? I don't want to limit this to 40K or Warmachine, just in general wargaming would this be something you would be interested in seeing or would it turn you off that game or character?

Yes. I don't see why it would matter.

grrr

Ok... Coplex issue.

Would I have a problem with a gay character on the table top? Probably, yes, but only because the only way I can see someones sexuality (Gay, strait or Tau loving) coming in to it is by shoehorning it in.

Do I have a problem with a gay character in a book? No. Not at all, as long as it is incidental to the story rather than an attept to go "oh look! He/She's gay! Arn't I modern."

Do I have a problem with a gay character in a 40K book? Depends... I don't expect any love storys in 40k books, but if there is a gay character, I have no problem with it as long as it is again treated as incidental rather than "Oh look. A gay charecter!!!!" but this gose for any character in any book I read whatever there sexuality. I don't read romance novels so sexuality should always be incidental to the plot.

Where I have a big problem with it is when it is clearly trying to make a point. Others have talked about "His husband back home" as apposed to "His wife and kids" or "His Gal back home". The problem I have with this is Wife and Kids and Gal are both well known tropes. Unless the carecter is previously estabished as gay then it is just braking the trope to point and stare and show how "right on" they writer is.

To summerise, I have no problem with a gay character, as long as it is natural rather than to go "Oh look! A gay person! Arn't I right on!".

No problem with at all

Its no weirder than a man playing a woman or an Elf Ork or even a female Elf - and I have done both.

There are occassional references to same sex partnerships/ dalliances in BL - eg the recent Nagash/Neferata novels, Cains Valhalans.etc. Both these examples are correctly not highlighted just mentioned in passing, as part of the big wide world/universe.

But then, (correctly in my view) the BL novels include more real stuff these days, Neferata has children by her brother who is her husband. There is even dodgy stuff like one of the first vampires liking underage children......not at all nice but its realistic with the characater.

And of course there is the whole Slaanesh thing -Animal, Vegitable or Mineral - she/he will do anything to anything

I do agree with the previous poster that if it happens it should be normal - unless of course it is a plot point in its own right.

Cogs wrote:
I have been wondering this for a while. Would you be interested in reading fiction about a character and if the character was strong in the game would you add him or her to your lists? I don't want to limit this to 40K or Warmachine, just in general wargaming would this be something you would be interested in seeing or would it turn you off that game or character?

I think it would have to depend on the game.

Honestly, aside from Captain Jack, from Torchwood, or Spartacus Gladiators, I don't have much of an interest/ being relevent in my world.

I might be wrong, but in most games, the topic isn't really discussed or dealt with, seeing as it really doesn't have relevence in game mechanics/ play.

As for interested? Not really.
More on account of it's not really my thing. If I were gay, I'm sure it would be relevent, but from what I remember, there was more of an issue of the PLAYER, then what they were playing.

I wouldn't even know how to run something like that other then steriotypical/ based on what we THINK it is supposed to be played.

I'm pretty secure in being an adult, but this didn't really ever come up. It was more of getting some players, the gay thing didn't really show up in what we were doing.

By the way, what games are we talking about, anyway?

Provided its not a 50 shades of grey sausagefest im good. A 50 shades of grey lesbian version on the other hand

But seriously i dont care there sexuality provided there a good character and they are fun to read about/play. The only exception is one that exists purely because of their sexuality and if that be the case gay, straight, bi they are a load of donkey genitalia.

"Sexuality is an extremely important aspect of one's identity."

Yup, that's why 90% of the population runs around screaming they are heterosexual..... or wearing pro-hetrosexual t-shirts

I would disagree. Sex used to be a private issue between a couple. So our parents and their parents had no identities? These days people are more open about their sex lives, but it is still irrelevant as to who a person is at their core. We are all equal right? I am who I am no matter who I love.

Getting back on topic, the sexuality of our characters is IRRELEVANT in the gaming world... being one reason why it isn't prevailent on these forums, in our codex/rules, books, etc. If it is important to one or two people, make up your own characters lore and there ya go! I enjoy my sexuality as much as the next guy, but do not force sexuality of any type on my games thank you.