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Well i think that the 40k universe spells it out pretty well "in the grim future there is ONLY WAR!"

Space Marines are made for war only...

The whole universe consists of plastic, metal and resin... so no gays or straights in the universe of 40k.

I am happy with it being about war and no love interest junk. This world is too full of love interest entertainment gay/straight/etc. I prefer to keep my gaming universe/hobby universe in a different realm... yeah chaos has some sexual stuff etc.. but, not political/emotional stuff.

Slaanesh Doesn't care, Just as-long as sex is involved.

 nectarprime wrote:

GreySkull wrote:
Each one of my characters I've ever played in RPGs has a little bit of me in them so no, I wouldn't. It's not that I have anything against homosexuals or lesbians I just can't play as a gay character since it's not in me to do so.

Playing a character that is just like yourself is kind of against the point of playing an RPG, don't you think?

Not really. It's perfectly in the spirit of an RPG to want to play a character that is either like yourself, but faced with different circumstances, or a character that is what you want to be and faced with different circumstances.

 Papaskittels wrote:
Slaanesh Doesn't care, Just as-long as sex is involved.

preferably with a ton of drugs

 scarletsquig wrote:

I'd forgotten about the gay Astropath and Navigator. Pretty much everyone in the book was wanting to get it on with each other at some point, even in the pages that weren't entirely dedicated to the slanneshi marines and their mutant genitalia.

Could've called it 50 Shades of Astronomican Grey...

Personally, the sexual orientation of a character in a universe like this is kind of irrelevant. In fact, it might actually be irritating if it's elaborated on since we only really care about the characters on the battlefield, or maybe that's just me.

Coming from a 40k standpoint, most of the characters are aesexual or presumed heterosexual but it never plays into the story at all except in rare instances. For me, I don't see why it would matter that a character should be gay and I would likely see it as social commentary rather than something written because the story is more compelling BECAUSE the character is gay...so yeah, I would probably steer clear of reading such a novel...I would use the character in a game if it was worthwhile to do so...I just wouldn't spend hours on reading a story.

Part of it is the relatability factor. As a hetero man I find it difficult to relate on a relational level to a gay man. That's just me though

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Personally, the sexual orientation of a character in a universe like this is kind of irrelevant. In fact, it might actually be irritating if it's elaborated on since we only really care about the characters on the battlefield, or maybe that's just me.

It's not just you, sexual orientation in this context is completely irrelevant. The *only* reason to bring it up would be an attempt to spin the authors view on the subject one way or the other.

So, to answer the original question:
I would not want to read about a gay character in a 40k novel: male or female.

This has nothing at all to do with my own views on sexuality. Which for posterity is simply that I could care less what two consenting adults choose to do.

However it has everything to do with why I read 40k pulp: an escape from real life about larger than life characters overcoming great odds (or dying trying) in a militaristic setting. There is no room for sex in those novels. If I want sex, I'll watch a porn flick.

Heck, I finished one of the Ciaphis Cain novels last week in which there was a minor situation of a SoB leaving the apartment of a Ecclesiarch after some personal action. It added nothing to the story and should have been cut out.

It added humor to a comedic story. By your logic, everything should be left out of the Cain novels but Jurgen's melta.

2000AD recently brought this point across with Dredd, who gives a feth, he's still a badass either way

Cogs wrote:
As this has developed I am now wondering more why is it that most characters in these games are white males? Where are the minorities and the women?

I've always (like, since I was a teenager, in the dark mists of time when RT came out) painted some of my IG and Marines and Ogres with skin tones ranging from really dark, through the browns and reddish browns right through to paints that have always actually been called "flesh". I've done so because it just seems more appropriate than an all-white force. I think the race issue is actually more interesting in the context of Warhammer (at least). Salamanders were originally painted with African-brown skin tones. At some point they became ash-black for some reason. I painted my GorkaMorka Diggas with African skin tones, again, because it seemed more appropriate for the figures and background. Ratskins? No prizes there. Al-Muktar's Desert Dogs? Do you need to ask? Escher? Back to a variety of skin tones.

And a little laugh for Buzzsaw's talk of "gene-seed". In the old, old fluff, when it was introduced, the stuff was actually called "gene-sperm".

Oh, and at least a couple of my Escher are lesbians. Hot ones.
Well, one of them is at least - The Leader with Plasma gun - converted from the heavy with the Stubber. (Plasma is pretty hot, right?) Zarina Veraghen. Based on the Grendel character Susan Veraghen. Not because of Hot Lesbian Action, but because the character was cool and kicked arse - and the mini had braids/dreadlocks.

I have RPed characters of all sexual orientations in various games and have read at least one novel series that featured several prominently gay characters. I don't see an issue with it.

Whether or not I would write one into a story is more of a quandry. I tend to neglet them not out of dislike, but simply because sexual orientation isn't particularly relevant to me.

Cogs wrote:
As this has developed I am now wondering more why is it that most characters in these games are white males? Where are the minorities and the women?

To me this is a bigger issue. Look at LotR for example. One strong female character (who had her role ruined in the film). You could arguably put Galadriel up there as well. All the good aligned male characters are white, be it white humans, super special white men (elves), grouchy short white men (dwarves), white everymen (hobbits), or old white men with magic powers (wizards). The only non white characters are evil and portrayed in a somewhat racist (at the very least stereotypical) fashion.


When female heroes are featured they are typically an archetype that relies on stealth, range, or magic and lack physical strength or marital prowess. When they are physically powerful and strong warriors they are invariably half naked. There are very few prominent depictions of strong female soldiers/warriors. At least I can not think of any.

Minorities (male or female) are nearly always portrayed as fantasy counterpart culture based on Eurocentric stereotypes of non western nations.

scipio.au wrote:

I've always (like, since I was a teenager, in the dark mists of time when RT came out) painted some of my IG and Marines and Ogres with skin tones ranging from really dark, through the browns and reddish browns right through to paints that have always actually been called "flesh". I've done so because it just seems more appropriate than an all-white force. I think the race issue is actually more interesting in the context of Warhammer (at least). Salamanders were originally painted with African-brown skin tones. At some point they became ash-black for some reason. I painted my GorkaMorka Diggas with African skin tones, again, because it seemed more appropriate for the figures and background. Ratskins? No prizes there. Al-Muktar's Desert Dogs? Do you need to ask? Escher? Back to a variety of skin tones.

Aye, I'm the same, in my gallery I have a couple of surviving shots of my previous Guard forces in my old armies file, and although you can't zoom, there are plenty of dark skinned characters, including a Ogryn, a Commissar and the Colonel in charge. I'm currently in the process of rebuilding my guard and will be doing the same thing again.


As to the OP, aye, not an issue at all, even in beyond fade to black scenes, I have no issue describing gay relationships on a sexual level as a ST/DM, playing someone who is gay or reading about them. It just doesn't cause me a concern in the slightest.

I paint my Dark Eldar like Nebari from Farscape. Does that count as diversity?

 Breotan wrote:
I paint my Dark Eldar like Nebari from Farscape. Does that count as diversity?

Honestly, no.

I don't see what possible difference sexuality could make to the character being great, GW will probably reveal at some time in the future that abbadon had a relationship with Slaanesh... Who knows but anyway I dont think it would make any difference to the performance of a character.

 Breotan wrote:
I paint my Dark Eldar like Nebari from Farscape. Does that count as diversity?

Watching Farscape as I read this, I want to start Dark Eldar now.

I would have no problem reading about a Gay characters so long as it didnt focus on his romantic exploits and thoughts. As im just not interested in that and while I dont care about it dont want to be privy to it. As to regards to his character if hes got cool fluff and good rules I see no reason not to

Just finished up my copy of The Complete Hammer's Slammers #1. One of the major characters in the story - Joachim Steuben - is a Major (ha) in the Slammers Regiment. He's cold, precise, seemingly inhumanely quick (he only wears armor when shrapnel is expected - in any other case he says it only slows him down), an amazing shot with his pistol, and immaculately dressed with custom-made uniforms.

He's a merciless killer, unafraid to kill fellow solders (even those who have served with him for years, if its to protect Colonel Hammer) and children, and a complete psychopath. There's nothing he wouldn't do if he thought it'd benefit Hammer.



He's also completely in love with Colonel Hammer, making him one of the most interesting homosexual characters I've ever encountered in a story.

I've always pondered how the innate sense of human sexuality had be completely deprogrammed in Space Marines and there ilk. Maybe I haven't read enough fluff into it. My best guess is that they take their greatest satisfaction from unparalleled violence and crashing power axes through opponents and ripping the faces with their cold metal hands off of traitors.

All in the name of duty...

 infinite_array wrote:
Just finished up my copy of The Complete Hammer's Slammers #1. One of the major characters in the story - Joachim Steuben - is a Major (ha) in the Slammers Regiment. He's cold, precise, seemingly inhumanely quick (he only wears armor when shrapnel is expected - in any other case he says it only slows him down), an amazing shot with his pistol, and immaculately dressed with custom-made uniforms.

He's a merciless killer, unafraid to kill fellow solders (even those who have served with him for years, if its to protect Colonel Hammer) and children, and a complete psychopath. There's nothing he wouldn't do if he thought it'd benefit Hammer.

Spoiler:

This guy's so absolutely hardcore, he commits suicide by hiring a pair of ex-soldiers-turned-assassins to kill him.

He's also completely in love with Colonel Hammer, making him one of the most interesting homosexual characters I've ever encountered in a story.

Sounds cool

Some other interesting characters / novels you might want to read:

Raptor by Gary Jennings about a hermaphrodite Goth warrior at the end of the Roman Empire
Tyrant series by Christian Cameron - one of the primary characters is Philokles, exiled Spartan Warrior and one of the most formidable and resiliant warriors in the novels

Despite some odd references in the Space Wolf Codex - I don't think that the Astartes do retain any sexual urges and it may well be that their "equipment" is removed as its both a vulnerable and useless organ. As part of the hypno conditioning etc I think any remaining "urges" would be channled into the feelings of brotherhood which is a feature of the Marines. Indeed there are some BL references to Astartes looking at women and vaguely remembering / understanding that they are (or would be) considered beautiful but this is like the equally vaguely remebered concept of fear.

Its conceivable and in fact highly likely that there are warrior cultures in the Imperium similar to those of ancient greece and this could conceivable be an narative element in a novel about a Guard or PDF Regiment.

hands_miranda wrote:

 verterdegete wrote:
Yes, gay people in WH40k would be a problem for me. Actually, any of that liberal/politically correct crap would be a problem for me.

I didn't realize sexual orientation was a political statement.

Unless the story is more about a planet and its culture, or some other situation where sexuality has relevance at all, it is a politcal statement. If I want to read a book with a romantic plot, of either stripe, the last place I'd go looking for it would be a 40k book.

I'd read about or play with any interesting character. Orientation, religion, race, politics, gender, hell even species is secondary to that. Just have an interesting storyline or a decent character arc and I'm on board.

 Krellnus wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
I paint my Dark Eldar like Nebari from Farscape. Does that count as diversity?

Watching Farscape as I read this, I want to start Dark Eldar now.

Nothing like a hot cup of mind frell to get you going in the morning.

 aosol wrote:
I've always pondered how the innate sense of human sexuality had be completely deprogrammed in Space Marines and there ilk. Maybe I haven't read enough fluff into it. My best guess is that they take their greatest satisfaction from unparalleled violence and crashing power axes through opponents and ripping the faces with their cold metal hands off of traitors.
All in the name of duty...

You're putting too much thought into it. I'm sure the full story is simply "we don't address that".

Technically, I generally play as a gay character*. In most games that have character generators, I have a specific character I generally flit from game to game with - Pike, who is human, a warrior, 5 feet tall, green eyes, short hair, short temper, not physically strong but fast, fearless, and prefers the company of ladies. I've had Pike Shepard in all 3 Mass Effects, Pike Blackhand in Everquest, Pike Hawke in Dragon Age, Pike in Pathfinder, etc etc. I don't generally think about their sex lives, but some of those games do use it as a plot point.

*Unless the game allows playable Trolls, in which case I play as Ouze, Troll Shadowknight. Likes ladies, pie, and dark magic, doesn't like fire or halflings.