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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/23 12:08:05
Subject: Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Que? Britain leaving the EU?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21148282
David Cameron has said the British people must "have their say" on Europe as he pledged an in/out referendum if the Conservatives win the election.
The prime minister said he wanted to renegotiate the UK's relationship with the EU, before asking people to vote.
The British people would face a "very simple choice", he stated, either to accept the result of the talks or to leave the EU altogether.
France and Germany both warned the UK could not "cherry pick" EU membership.
Labour said Mr Cameron was "weak" and being driven by "party interest", while the PM's coalition partner, Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg, said "years of uncertainty" caused by a future referendum would hit jobs and growth and "was not in the national interest".
In a long-awaited speech, welcomed by many Conservative MPs, Mr Cameron pledged to hold a referendum during the early part of the next parliament - by the end of 2017 at the latest - if the Conservatives win the next general election.
He said it would be a decision on the UK's "destiny" and, if he secured a new relationship he was happy with, he would campaign "heart and soul" to stay within the EU.
"It is time for the British people to have their say," he said. "It is time to settle this European question in British politics. I say to the British people: this will be your decision."
However, Mr Cameron did not spell out what powers he would like to see the UK take back as part of a new settlement or what would happen if the negotiations did not go his way.
'Very simple choice'
The Conservative leader has been under pressure from many of his MPs to give a binding commitment to a vote on Europe.
Continue reading the main story
Analysis
Iain Watson
Political correspondent, BBC News
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It has taken quite some time for the prime minister to go from promising a major speech on Europe to delivering it.
But today marks the beginning of a process, not the end.
The many Eurosceptics in his party will be pleased that he is offering an in/out referendum on Britain's membership of the EU - although some will regard the timescale as tardy.
But there are important hurdles. He has to win the next election with an overall majority. His European partners will have to be willing to renegotiate Britain's relationship.
And while the promise of a referendum will unite many in his party this side of an election, the process of renegotiation might re-open divisions. What the PM didn't say today is what would he do if the negotiations deliver less than he would like.
Would he still proceed with an in/out referendum? Would he still argue for a yes vote? Would others in his party who would be prepared to stay on the EU on the right terms defect to the No camp if they don't like the deal the PM strikes with Brussels?
Labour and the Lib Dems say David Cameron is creating damaging uncertainty for business, but he has thrown down the gauntlet to them.
Can they allow him to be the only major party leader to offer voters a say on EU membership after the next election?
Annotated transcript: Cameron speech
Mr Cameron said "disillusionment" with the EU was "at an all time high" and "simply asking the British people to carry on accepting a European settlement over which they have had little choice" was likely to accelerate calls for the UK to leave.
"That is why I am in favour of a referendum," he said. "I believe in confronting this issue - shaping it, leading the debate. Not simply hoping a difficult situation will go away."
Setting out the conditions for a future poll, he said he would seek a "mandate" for a renegotiation and a referendum in the next Conservative election manifesto.
"And when we have negotiated that new settlement, we will give the British people a referendum with a very simple in-or-out choice to stay in the EU on these new terms; or come out altogether. It will be an in/out referendum."
But he said holding such a referendum now would be a "false choice" because Europe was set to change following the eurozone crisis and it would be "wrong to ask people whether to stay or go before we have had a chance to put the relationship right".
Mr Cameron said he "understood the appeal" of Britain going it alone and he was sure the UK would survive outside the EU. But, he said, the UK must think "very carefully" about the implications of withdrawal for its prosperity and role on the international stage.
"If we left the European Union, it would be a one-way ticket, not a return," he added.
The prime minister rejected suggestions that a new relationship was "impossible to achieve", adding that he would prefer all other EU countries to agree a new treaty but would be prepared to seek negotiations on a unilateral basis.
However French foreign minister Laurent Fabius warned "you can't do Europe a la carte... to take an example which our British friends will understand - imagine Europe is a football club and you join, once you're in it you can't say 'let's play rugby'".
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Nigel Farage: 'The attempt to kick the can down the road for five years is not good enough'
German foreign minister Guido Westerwelle said Germany wanted the UK to "remain an active and constructive part of the European Union... but cherry picking is not an option" before adding that Europe needed more, not less, integration.
Conservative MPs who want a looser relationship with the EU said it was a "watershed" moment.
Douglas Carswell told the BBC it was the speech he had "been waiting to hear from a Conservative prime minister all his adult life" while Mark Pritchard said it was "a major triumph" and would unite his party.
Mayor of London Boris Johnson said the British people had not been consulted on Europe since 1975, and it is "high time" they were.
But the former European commissioner and Labour cabinet minister Lord Mandelson told the BBC that Mr Cameron was putting forward a "completely bogus and rather phoney set of demands and circumstances" designed to appease critics in his party.
Shadow foreign secretary Douglas Alexander added: "We understand the need for change but I don't honestly believe the best way to get change in a club of 27 is to stand at the exit door demanding change or threatening to leave."
'Threatening to leave'
The Lib Dems say pursuing a wholesale renegotiation of the UK's membership will cause uncertainty.
"Efforts to reconcile his own position with that of his eurosceptic backbenchers leads logically to the position that if he could not get what he wanted out of Europe, he would be willing for the UK to leave," said its former leader Sir Menzies Campbell.
"This will hardly commend his approach to those in the EU whose co-operation he requires."
The UK Independence Party said the "genie was out of the bottle" about a possible exit from the EU.
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Nick Clegg: "In my view it's not in the national interest"
"Winning this referendum, if and when it comes, is not going to be an easy thing but I feel that Ukip's real job starts today," the party's leader Nigel Farage said.
John Cridland, director general of employers group, the CBI, said "closer union of the eurozone is not for us" but Mr Cameron "rightly recognises the benefits of retaining membership of what must be a reformed EU".
The BBC's Steve Evans in Berlin said opinion was hardening in Germany and France, with many politicians believing that those opposed to further European integration would be better off "leaving gracefully".
The speech, which has been in the planning for six months, had been scheduled for last Friday in the Netherlands, but was postponed because of the Algerian hostage crisis.
Tweets from BBC reporters
What are tweets?
David Cameron gets a very welcoming response from his own benches as he enters the chamber for PMQs
@iainjwatson
3 mins agoCameron's referendum pledge: the great political gamble http://t.co/9ZJvI8Qc
@bbcnickrobinson
16 mins ago
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/23 12:16:20
Subject: Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
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Yeah, on the whole the British are pretty intensely Euroskeptic. Lots of unreasoning anger at the EU there, stoked up by their venonmous yellow press for some reason or another.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/23 12:57:46
Subject: Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle
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Hay, not all. Probably not even most, just a large vocal minoraty who make up reasons to hate the EU by imagining laws that never existed and complaining that the French and Germans ignore EU law becasue a friend of a friend told them they once saw something.
Personaly I think that whilst the EU has some failings on the whole it is a good thing and we have a net gain from it.
Most of the complaining apparently is comeing from small businesses who blaim the EU for overburdening them with red tape because of things like employment law and heath and safty, nither of which are actualy much to do with the EU.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/23 12:59:35
insaniak wrote:Sometimes, Exterminatus is the only option.
And sometimes, it's just a case of too much scotch combined with too many buttons... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/23 13:45:30
Subject: Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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Krazed Killa Kan
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I think the problem is that the spirit of imperialism is still alive and well in british society, we still see ourselves as an 'empire' even though that era has long since passed, and the idea of an unelected commitee imposing often arbitrary rules on us as a country sparks that patriotic attitude in us. Combine that with the current more-or-less unregulated immigration (which even the left-wingers in UK government admit is an issue at the moment) that occurs as a result of free movement of labour within the EU and you've got a dogma for anti-EU. Plus, the EU isn't exactly known for making sound decisions. As an example, I work for a company developing software for Life insurance and Pensions, the EU recently passed legislation that makes it illegal to alter insurance premiums based on gender. Now then, with respect to life insurance, women get a slightly worse deal because they are statistically likely to live longer than men (so need cover for longer), but in car insurance they get a slightly better deal because they are statistically less likely to claim on car insurance (because of the whole 'boy racer' thing. The net result is that both genders are now worse of in both car and life insurance, as the companies absorb the costs of the changed premium calculations by passing them straight onto the consumer, and they can no longer offset the extra cost of males against the savings on females. Also, at a time when 50% of all food eaten in the western world goes to waste, we have EU legislation that prevents farmers from selling fruit and veg that are not a certain size or shape (an example springs to mind of a farmer who had to landfill a good few tonnes of perfectly good kiwi fruit because they were XXmm in diameter less than is allowed by the legislation). Me, I think we need to go all or nothing, either dissolve the current european nations and create a super-state, or don't bother with the EU at all...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/23 13:46:29
DR:80S---G+MB---I+Pw40k08#+D+A+/fWD???R+T(M)DM+
My P&M Log: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/433120.page
Atma01 wrote:
And that is why you hear people yelling FOR THE EMPEROR rather than FOR LOGICAL AND QUANTIFIABLE BASED DECISIONS FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE MAJORITY!
Phototoxin wrote:Kids go in , they waste tonnes of money on marnus calgar and his landraider, the slaneshi-like GW revel at this lust and short term profit margin pleasure. Meanwhile father time and cunning lord tzeentch whisper 'our games are better AND cheaper' and then players leave for mantic and warmahordes.
daveNYC wrote:The Craftworld guys, who are such stick-in-the-muds that they manage to make the Ultramarines look like an Ibiza nightclub that spiked its Red Bull with LSD. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/23 14:15:59
Subject: Re:Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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Junior Officer with Laspistol
Perth/Glasgow
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Currently debating whether to study for my exams or paint some Deathwing |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/23 14:54:16
Subject: Re:Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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So we going to leave Europe and become an American state?
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DC:90-S+G++M--B++I+pW40k08+D++A++/eWD257R++t(S)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/23 14:54:55
Subject: Re:Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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No Greater Texas. Remember boys: vote Cthulu. Why pick the lesser evil?
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/23 15:00:46
Subject: Re:Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
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Britain has also been warned by the White House and a host of business leaders it would lose global influence if it left the EU.
Doesn't seem likely?
Also I find myself oddly agreeing with the French:
France went so far as to call Britain's bluff and say it was free to leave. Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said he had told a recent meeting with British businessmen: "If Britain wants to leave Europe we will roll out the red carpet for you."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/23 16:33:57
Subject: Re:Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Same old story, a Tory leader trying please both sides in his party. How strange it is that he wants the referendum after the next election. If he gets in he's free to do what he wants, and if not, then he can ignore it. I would imagine he's hoping that he can grab some anti euro voters, then betray them once in power by "tweaking" the actual trigger or content of the referendum.
It's about time somebody actually printed out the facts in B&W so we can make an informed decision about it. I personally feel that the biggest moaners are the businesses that see the EU stopping them taking advantage of their workers.
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Live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about his religion. Respect others in their views and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life. Beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and of service to your people. When your time comes to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song, and die like a hero going home.
Lt. Rorke - Act of Valor
I can now be found on Facebook under the name of Wulfstan Design
www.wulfstandesign.co.uk
http://www.voodoovegas.com/
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/23 16:35:27
Subject: Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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Sounds eerily similar to how Americans talk about the UN
Guess we're not so different after all.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/23 16:45:30
Subject: Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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Oberstleutnant
Back in the English morass
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The reason for this is really quite simple. The tories are haemorrhaging voters to UKIP and a lot of Tory MPs are becoming rebellious. This move cuts off UKIP support at the knees and throws a bone to the hard right of the Tory party.
I think that its a moot point though as I doubt that the Tories will be in power after then next election. I also doubt that the EU will allow the Uk to renegotiate so that leaves withdrawing from the EU entirely and most of the UK population isn't stupid enough to let that happen.
I do find it illuminating that one of the biggest complaints with the EU is with the working time directive (how dare those fat cats in Brussels prevent our BRITISH workers from working more than 48 hours a week and giving them at least 20 days leave a year!1!).
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/23 16:49:54
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/23 18:43:30
Subject: Re:Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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Fixture of Dakka
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And the joke is that David Cameron doesn't even want to leave the thing...
Personally I'm against this, its just conservatives saying "rabble, rabble, rabble". When the rest of the EU's looking at you like a spoiled child who just want their way I'd say its time to grow up. By this I mean that the line that the EU's putting out is, "we're all making sacrifices, what reason do you have to make less than the rest of us?". The Tory backbenchers have someone above them telling them what to do, thus they're unhappy. =P
Anyhow, what's the point in leaving? The next government will just appeal to rejoin when the Tories are out. All the current government is doing is giving the next one more paperwork to do (oh and fudging up the country as much as they can until they can worm their way into power again).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/23 19:08:46
Subject: Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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Oberstleutnant
Back in the English morass
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If the Uk rejoisn they would have to adopt the Euro, I can't see that happening unless the economy is completely wrecked.
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The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/23 19:13:30
Subject: Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Palindrome wrote:If the Uk rejoisn they would have to adopt the Euro, I can't see that happening unless the economy is completely wrecked.
I thought that the impetus to leave the EU was to protect your currency??!?
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/23 19:23:04
Subject: Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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Oberstleutnant
Back in the English morass
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The isolationist nature of the English is what provides the real impetus to leave the EU
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The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/23 19:24:47
Subject: Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
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Nah, the Sterling isn't connected to the Euro except in the general way that if the Eurozone collapses, it'll likely drag down the British banking system too, since so much money is owed to britain from Euro-using countries.
Glad to see sensible posts here.
I think if the UK leaves it will end up with far less political sway and will be on the poorer end of any agreements with it's neighbours, having given up it's ability to influence the decision making process due to irrationality. I hope Britain stays in, and that it's hysterical press are reigned in or go out of business.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/23 21:02:23
Subject: Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
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Da Boss wrote:Nah, the Sterling isn't connected to the Euro except in the general way that if the Eurozone collapses, it'll likely drag down the British banking system too, since so much money is owed to britain from Euro-using countries.
I think that comment was in reference to the fact that there'd no longer be a special exception for the UK, because I don't see the EU playing nice with the UK if they come crawling back after breaking out.
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For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/24 03:46:25
Subject: Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit
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Leave now, not after the next election David.
Quangos and the stupid human rights act have been the bane of this country for too long.
The human rights act only seems to apply to crooks and terrorists. So what about their victims, are they not human to, and require their rights and welfare to be taken into account as well?
The e.u says the crooks and the terrorists rights must come first, and our rights take a back seat to that (just look at all the treatment they get in prison while their victim/s are left with what?) And thats why it's a no on the e.u. for me.
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Come into my web, said the spider to the fly.
Come rest your wings, and let us talk eye to eye.
For I am a spider, and you are the fly. Now that you are here, let us sit, and say hi.
But I have have no morsel to share, nor anything to eat. But wait, what is that stickiness upon your feet.
Ah now I have you, now I can eat. Now I can enjoy you, or store you as meat.
For I am the spider, and you are the fly. How else could it have gone, between one such as you, and one such as I.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/24 04:54:11
Subject: Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Palindrome wrote:The reason for this is really quite simple. The tories are haemorrhaging voters to UKIP and a lot of Tory MPs are becoming rebellious. This move cuts off UKIP support at the knees and throws a bone to the hard right of the Tory party.
Yeah, this is just about positioning the party for the next election so they minimise the loss of votes to the UKIP.
Leaving the vote until after the next election is pretty transparent politics. "Vote us into office and you'll get your referendum, but vote for the UKIP and risk Labour winning and missing out on the referendum."
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“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/24 05:04:30
Subject: Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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Ian Pickstock
Nottingham
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Da Boss wrote:Yeah, on the whole the British are pretty intensely Euroskeptic. Lots of unreasoning anger at the EU there, stoked up by their venonmous yellow press for some reason or another.
Most people actually don't care. People want a referendum on anything that you ask them.
This is about one thing only - the tory party. They just hate Europe and I don't get why.
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Naaa na na na-na-na-naaa.
Na-na-na-naaaaa.
Hey Jude. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/24 05:26:19
Subject: Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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The European Union, in my view, is great. It's benefited my country, Ireland, it's promoted Europe instead of the tiny individual countries and it's protecting European jobs.
What's wrong with it? Sure, some of the economic policies are a bit weird, but overall it's good.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/24 06:11:39
Subject: Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon
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BryllCream wrote:Da Boss wrote:Yeah, on the whole the British are pretty intensely Euroskeptic. Lots of unreasoning anger at the EU there, stoked up by their venonmous yellow press for some reason or another.
Most people actually don't care. People want a referendum on anything that you ask them.
This is about one thing only - the tory party. They just hate Europe and I don't get why.
It's not that strange. The EU's attempts at financial regulation don't sit well with the City bankers. Cameron's efforts to protect the British financial sector from outside meddling have put him at odds with the entire Union.
However, I also suspect Cameron, like many other leaders of center-right parties all over Europe, is trying to scratch some votes from populist and far-right parties by assimilating some of their proposals.
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War does not determine who is right - only who is left. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/24 06:15:27
Subject: Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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Ian Pickstock
Nottingham
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Agent_Tremolo wrote: BryllCream wrote:Da Boss wrote:Yeah, on the whole the British are pretty intensely Euroskeptic. Lots of unreasoning anger at the EU there, stoked up by their venonmous yellow press for some reason or another.
Most people actually don't care. People want a referendum on anything that you ask them.
This is about one thing only - the tory party. They just hate Europe and I don't get why.
It's not that strange. The EU's attempts at financial regulation don't sit well with the City bankers. Cameron's efforts to protect the British financial sector from outside meddling have put him at odds with the entire Union.
However, I also suspect Cameron, like many other leaders of center-right parties all over Europe, is trying to scratch some votes from populist and far-right parties by assimilating some of their proposals.
The City needs to be regulated. The fact that Europe has to do it is a damning inditement of our own political class's willingness to regulate financial services. Not that it matters since the City Of London *is* financial services in Europe, so they'll get what they want from the EU anyway.
The Conservative Party has a history of irrational, almost fanatical anti-European ferver. The fact that UKIP exist as a party outside of that is testament to the anti-European feeling amongst our political class.
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Naaa na na na-na-na-naaa.
Na-na-na-naaaaa.
Hey Jude. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/24 11:23:36
Subject: Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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Courageous Grand Master
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Total shambles. 5 years for a vote? What a mess.
I'm quite annoyed that the Americans are sticking their nose into this. Quite frankly, it's none of Washington's business. If any American poster objects to that, then get a rowing boat, and I'll meet you halfway in the Atlantic!
Anyway, I see nothing wrong with letting the British public decide its constitutional future. Why are Labour and the Lib dems against people voting?
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"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/24 11:29:49
Subject: Re:Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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Fixture of Dakka
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Probably because the whole thing is a thinly veiled effort by the Tories to drum up votes with the right wing to keep them in another term. ...And that naturally following on from that its just a tad childish. =)
Sure we could do with some reform in the EU, but you shouldn't go about it being demanding more rights than everyone else, then going off in a huff if you don't get them...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/24 11:35:49
Subject: Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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Courageous Grand Master
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Reform? The EU is a corrupt, bloated mess of an institution.
If Miliband cannot defeat one of the worst Prime Minister's in British history, then that says more about him than Cameron.
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"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/24 12:04:40
Subject: Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
If Miliband cannot defeat one of the worst Prime Minister's in British history, then that says more about him than Cameron.
16.1.13, but..
" 75% of Tories are satisfied with Cameron but just 53% of Labour supporters are happy with their leader "
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/24 12:24:25
Subject: Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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Oberstleutnant
Back in the English morass
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Ed Miliband was the wrong choice for the Labour leadership, certainly initially, but he has definately been getting better. If he keeps improving the way that he has been then he should be in a good position by the next election.
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The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/24 12:25:17
Subject: Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
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Themanwiththeplan wrote:Leave now, not after the next election David.
Quangos and the stupid human rights act have been the bane of this country for too long.
The human rights act only seems to apply to crooks and terrorists. So what about their victims, are they not human to, and require their rights and welfare to be taken into account as well?
The e.u says the crooks and the terrorists rights must come first, and our rights take a back seat to that (just look at all the treatment they get in prison while their victim/s are left with what?) And thats why it's a no on the e.u. for me.
The EU isn't the organisation for the European Court you are referencing. It's the council of europe. If you voted yourself out of the EU, you'd still be part of the council of Europe (which contains many countries not in the EU) and would still agree to be subject to it's rulings.
If you're going to have a strong opinion about something, it's worth making sure the facts are straight first, yeah?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/24 12:28:58
Subject: Cameron pledges referendum on EU
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Oberstleutnant
Back in the English morass
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Da Boss wrote:
If you're going to have a strong opinion about something, it's worth making sure the facts are straight first, yeah?
An excellent example of one of the prime reasons for the popular dislike of the EU, sheer ignorance.
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The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog |
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