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 judgedoug wrote:
As long as they don't eff up my KoW Orcs, I'm just fine with them redesigning their space orcs. I personally have zero investment in them.

I coulda sworn everyone was like "fantasy orcs with rayguns are st00pid! mantic is a dumb!" when the original Marauders came out, and now they're being redesigned and now the cries are "they don't match the old ones oh noes! mantic is a dumb!"

The negative reaction wasn't as strong as it was for the forgefathers since the marauder sprues are quite nicely done, with 2 separate sprues with lots of different weapon options included.

Whereas the steel warriors were half of a 2-man sprue that didn't turn out so well.

 judgedoug wrote:
I coulda sworn everyone was like "fantasy orcs with rayguns are st00pid! mantic is a dumb!" when the original Marauders came out, and now they're being redesigned and now the cries are "they don't match the old ones oh noes! mantic is a dumb!"

Those are two entirely different problems; the first is equipment, the second is anatomy. If you cannot understand that a medieval knight and a modern marine should be equipped in a drastically different fashion, but should also possess the same body shape, that says more about you than the critics.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
I coulda sworn everyone was like "fantasy orcs with rayguns are st00pid! mantic is a dumb!" when the original Marauders came out, and now they're being redesigned and now the cries are "they don't match the old ones oh noes! mantic is a dumb!"

Those are two entirely different problems; the first is equipment, the second is anatomy. If you cannot understand that a medieval knight and a modern marine should be equipped in a drastically different fashion, but should also possess the same body shape, that says more about you than the critics.

What is says more about is that I don't particularly care about the Marauders either way, which I stated before that quote clip begins. I just remember lots of complaints about them.

So, in fact, the Orx Marauders are well received and universally loved, and this redesign of the line is something which raises the ire of the legions of current style Orx Marauders fans. Gotcha.

With these new pictures, I for one am quite happy. That Enforcer with the heavy flamer looks great! The goblin cannon cart is goofy but neat. The mercs all look pretty damn cool, too. Speaking of, is that Freya in there with them? It's a little hard to tell if that's her or something else. That Marauder Hulk looks WAY better than it's initial sculpt we saw with its twig-like waist and and legs. The lower body looks much better bulked out. I thought they were going to go with the helmetted option for him though?

Have we seen the Hobgoblin Pyro or female Enforcer yet in render or pysical form?

I don't think so. Its as much of an issue for the enforcer infiltrator on bike since she is wave 2. If you meant boomer... I don't think we've seen him yet and I do believe he was wave 1, although he may be wave 2 with all of the faction characters.

Hulk looks much better now than the preview. Between the improvement on that, the heavy suits, and how the artillery turned out I'll probably be grabbing two BOGO's for the Maruaders for other games.

holy hell, im glad i got everything for the 4 starting factions, EVERYTHING looks ace. the Enforcers are looking amazing.

 Taarnak wrote:

One does get tired of talking to the wall...

As to heroic scale:


Big head, big hands (although not nearly as off as the head, and mostly forgivable, even for me).

Regardless of anatomy issues, which I can handle (once painted on the table I won't really notice how big her hands are) this pose still bothers me. That is the stupidest 'holding a rocket launcher' pose I've seen in a long time. Hand and arm position are just silly.

 Alpharius wrote:
But not if he's for hire all the time, right?

Anyway - I am just really happy to see how good everything's looking, and now my only concern is the Resin Master to Restic (ugh.) conversion process.

First, I am an excellent privateer. Goes back to the old Wing Commander Privateer game, back when CD-ROM games were new
Second, I find restic on figures to be a royal pain due to the mold lines.

I'm a decent hobbyist but stuff like the current Enforcers, Void SIrens (female DreadBall team with mold line right down the middle of players' faces) and their rat-men Veer-Myn make me cringe.
On a vehicle, you've at least got a quasi-reason to justify a seam being on a surface or edge. Down a human female model's face (very tiny face because they are more 25mm scale) not so much.

The location of the mould lines is not so much a function of the material, more of poor planning in terms of the sculpt and how it's fitted into the mould

smart digital sculptors (or technicians converting a physical sculpt to digital) who know their stuff will try and have mould lines placed in such a way that they're easy to remove

eg running along a seam, or across bits with little fiddly detail (GW excels at this, but it could be done with PVC too)

typically PVC minis are in fewer parts so it makes it trickier, but not impossible, they just need to think about it more clearly

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:


I believe you, internet stranger who tells unverified tales.

However, I just met the Shadow King of Tooling (nice guy, BTW), and he tells me that the problems were definitely on Mantic's end. In fact, when Ronnie saw the original prototypes, he demanded that they be fixed to look more like "the unflushed present I left in your office bathroom, jabroni. Merry Christmas." Then he got the factory owner in a headlock so Tony Reidy could kidney-punch him repeatedly. Unfortunately, due to the investigation, I can't share my proof with you at all, but the MaA models were definitely Mantic's fault. Biased sources have confirmed this.

But on a serious note, either spill the details or admit that Mantic ARE completely responsible for the product they greenlit and chose to send to backers.

Mark Wallace confirms that we are genuine in the facebook album here.

Again for the record, Ronnie asked us not to divulge the details of what happened with the men at arms and I'm not about to break a promise. To quote someone else who knows:

Wow.. just wow.

There's just so much wrong with that from an artistic perspective I think I'd want to strangle them if I was the original 3d sculptor.

Mantic are definitely right not to go public about it though, it could be taken the wrong way or seen as making excuses by some people.

I agree that Mantic should have handled things better in terms of informing people about the sprues up front rather than when people started getting the sprues, what happened is not Mantics fault nor do they have the capital to correct the problems right now.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
The location of the mould lines is not so much a function of the material, more of poor planning in terms of the sculpt and how it's fitted into the mould

smart digital sculptors (or technicians converting a physical sculpt to digital) who know their stuff will try and have mould lines placed in such a way that they're easy to remove

eg running along a seam, or across bits with little fiddly detail (GW excels at this, but it could be done with PVC too)

typically PVC minis are in fewer parts so it makes it trickier, but not impossible, they just need to think about it more clearly

Good point. However, when their planning fails and a mold line is prominent, restic is a royal bear to clean up without damaging detail.

Love their rules sets. Like their minis for the most part. Dislike restic and any plastic/metal hybrid kits.

Daedleh wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:


I believe you, internet stranger who tells unverified tales.

However, I just met the Shadow King of Tooling (nice guy, BTW), and he tells me that the problems were definitely on Mantic's end. In fact, when Ronnie saw the original prototypes, he demanded that they be fixed to look more like "the unflushed present I left in your office bathroom, jabroni. Merry Christmas." Then he got the factory owner in a headlock so Tony Reidy could kidney-punch him repeatedly. Unfortunately, due to the investigation, I can't share my proof with you at all, but the MaA models were definitely Mantic's fault. Biased sources have confirmed this.

But on a serious note, either spill the details or admit that Mantic ARE completely responsible for the product they greenlit and chose to send to backers.

Mark Wallace confirms that we are genuine in the facebook album here.

Again for the record, Ronnie asked us not to divulge the details of what happened with the men at arms and I'm not about to break a promise. To quote someone else who knows:

Wow.. just wow.

There's just so much wrong with that from an artistic perspective I think I'd want to strangle them if I was the original 3d sculptor.

Mantic are definitely right not to go public about it though, it could be taken the wrong way or seen as making excuses by some people.

I agree that Mantic should have handled things better in terms of informing people about the sprues up front rather than when people started getting the sprues, what happened is not Mantics fault nor do they have the capital to correct the problems right now.

Having said all that, if Mantic can't/won't control this, then they need to stop asking for people to pay for things sight unseen up front, maybe?

Daedleh wrote:


I agree that Mantic should have handled things better in terms of informing people about the sprues up front rather than when people started getting the sprues, what happened is not Mantics fault nor do they have the capital to correct the problems right now.

How is it not Mantic's fault sockpuppet?

An example of 'not mantic's fault' would be if they shipped 2000 orders via UPS which had the packed boxes sit in a 140 degree warehouse and the plastic used was inferior and grossly expanded and warped due to the heat and arrived at customers doorsteps ugly, warped and out of proportion. That would have been 'not Mantics fault'.

If they had used their own money, tooled the model, and then saw it they would have said 'this won't sell, we need to start over opposed to release it to retail and rather than let it be the ultimate pegwarmer.'

But they already have people's money, so while it is unacceptable model which shouldn't have been released, they have already sold them so it is easier to just ship the poor models, keep the money and move on.

If they had to rely on their products own merits to sell them and suffer the financial downfall of unselling inventory, then they wouldn't have let this model get to production, pure and simple. This is a result of them not having enough bandwidth to take their KS seriously and a total lack of art direction and accepting of things being 'good enuff' because they already got people's money.

nkelsch wrote:

Daedleh wrote:


I agree that Mantic should have handled things better in terms of informing people about the sprues up front rather than when people started getting the sprues, what happened is not Mantics fault nor do they have the capital to correct the problems right now.

How is it not Mantic's fault sockpuppet?

it pains me to do it, but I must agree with nkelsch. Mantic released the models, plain and simple.

but, nkelsch, you should really learn what a 'sockpuppet' actually is before you continue to use it incorrectly.

 judgedoug wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

Daedleh wrote:


I agree that Mantic should have handled things better in terms of informing people about the sprues up front rather than when people started getting the sprues, what happened is not Mantics fault nor do they have the capital to correct the problems right now.

How is it not Mantic's fault sockpuppet?

it pains me to do it, but I must agree with nkelsch. Mantic released the models, plain and simple.

but, nkelsch, you should really learn what a 'sockpuppet' actually is before you continue to use it incorrectly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet)

"A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception"

"The term now includes other misleading uses of online identities, such as those created to praise, defend or support a person or organization,"

"A significant difference between the use of a pseudonym[3] and the creation of a sockpuppet is that the sockpuppet poses as an independent third-party unaffiliated with the puppeteer"

Low post count, Someone of a deep inside tour of mantic but is not affiliated with them, "I know real info which makes it not Mantics fault but I can't tell you!", Appearing on the scene right as this very legitimate issue appears?

Fits the bill to me.

judgedoug wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

Daedleh wrote:


I agree that Mantic should have handled things better in terms of informing people about the sprues up front rather than when people started getting the sprues, what happened is not Mantics fault nor do they have the capital to correct the problems right now.

How is it not Mantic's fault sockpuppet?

it pains me to do it, but I must agree with nkelsch. Mantic released the models, plain and simple.

but, nkelsch, you should really learn what a 'sockpuppet' actually is before you continue to use it incorrectly.

Ahaha glad to know I'm getting under the trolls skin.

Alpharius wrote:Having said all that, if Mantic can't/won't control this, then they need to stop asking for people to pay for things sight unseen up front, maybe?

I think that the trolls would be bleating even louder if Mantic went ahead and released nothing which was the alternative. I'm absolutely agreeing with you two that this should have been handled much, much better and that yes, the models are terrible and ultimately reflect poorly on Mantic.

I'm not sure that it's fair to brush all of Mantics kickstarters for the few KoW releases that were poor/sub-par. The Sci-Fi kickstarters have all been great so far and it's just a pity that the KoW one was misjudged from the start.

I think we've been knocked way, way off topic by nklesch here.

Alpharius wrote:Having said all that, if Mantic can't/won't control this, then they need to stop asking for people to pay for things sight unseen up front, maybe?

That would be great advice that is 100% pro-consumer so unlikely to happen considering Mantic is on a biannual kickstarter binge.

nkelsch wrote:How is it not Mantic's fault sockpuppet?

An example of 'not mantic's fault' would be if they shipped 2000 orders via UPS which had the packed boxes sit in a 140 degree warehouse and the plastic used was inferior and grossly expanded and warped due to the heat and arrived at customers doorsteps ugly, warped and out of proportion. That would have been 'not Mantics fault'.

If they had used their own money, tooled the model, and then saw it they would have said 'this won't sell, we need to start over opposed to release it to retail and rather than let it be the ultimate pegwarmer.'

But they already have people's money, so while it is unacceptable model which shouldn't have been released, they have already sold them so it is easier to just ship the poor models, keep the money and move on.

It might be best to leave name calling out of this... or at a minimum use more accurate descriptions like apologist or water carrier. Sockpuppet accounts tend not to be 5 years old and I think we can both agree that Mantic's handling of their first KS shows they're not capable of planning 5 years in advance.

Also, in Mantic's "defense", goofy looking models like the goblins (haven't seen them, just repeating what others said multiple times) and the drakon riders do show that they're willing to release shoddy work straight to the peg as well. I do agree though that it's probably alot more tempting if you've got the money in hand to pay for it to begin with.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Daedleh wrote:
I think that the trolls would be bleating even louder if Mantic went ahead and released nothing which was the alternative. I'm absolutely agreeing with you two that this should have been handled much, much better and that yes, the models are terrible and ultimately reflect poorly on Mantic.

I'm not sure that it's fair to brush all of Mantics kickstarters for the few KoW releases that were poor/sub-par. The Sci-Fi kickstarters have all been great so far and it's just a pity that the KoW one was misjudged from the start.

I think we've been knocked way, way off topic by nklesch here.

Just for the record, sheep bleat.. not trolls. And the pejorative "sheep" is generally used for people who tow the company line in spite of common sense and to their own detriment as customers. I would guess trolls grumble and moan. I agree that this was, in the end, a lose lose scenario for Mantic. They chose to cut their losses and release the product for short term gain (sales to those ignorant of the quality) at the cost of their long term rep. That might have been the only viable financial choice for them but that doesn't soften the blow to someone getting the shoddy models. While I agree that they've done better with their subsequent dreadball KS (to my limited knowledge nothing has shipped for deadzone so you can't count that yet), you'll likely find that the complaints about the first will keep rolling in until it is finished and it stops being an continuing/ongoing disappointment.

nkelsch wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

Daedleh wrote:


I agree that Mantic should have handled things better in terms of informing people about the sprues up front rather than when people started getting the sprues, what happened is not Mantics fault nor do they have the capital to correct the problems right now.

How is it not Mantic's fault sockpuppet?

it pains me to do it, but I must agree with nkelsch. Mantic released the models, plain and simple.

but, nkelsch, you should really learn what a 'sockpuppet' actually is before you continue to use it incorrectly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet)

"A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception"

"The term now includes other misleading uses of online identities, such as those created to praise, defend or support a person or organization,"

"A significant difference between the use of a pseudonym[3] and the creation of a sockpuppet is that the sockpuppet poses as an independent third-party unaffiliated with the puppeteer"

Low post count, Someone of a deep inside tour of mantic but is not affiliated with them, "I know real info which makes it not Mantics fault but I can't tell you!", Appearing on the scene right as this very legitimate issue appears?

Fits the bill to me.

"a false identity assumed by a member of an internet community who spoke to, or about, himself while pretending to be another person" doesn't fit the bill.

Maybe a meatpuppet, maybe. More like a white knight or apologist. As any company grows, there's a greater chance of them (how many gazillions does GW have?) But sock puppet? So next you'll tell me he went back in time to 2008 and joined Dakka just to make your above statements look foolish.

Wow, that hulk is fantastic.

We really need to leave all of the name calling and insults out of the conversation, please!

I was gonna say...

For all of the heated debate those pictures have created, I for one am feeling very destitute.

See, I cancelled a pledge for Deadzone thinking that Toughest Girls of the Galaxy was going to be sooooo hot. I really wanted to Rebs minis. And I can't even drown my sorrows in cheesecake in the meantime.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I was gonna say...

For all of the heated debate those pictures have created, I for one am feeling very destitute.

See, I cancelled a pledge for Deadzone thinking that Toughest Girls of the Galaxy was going to be sooooo hot. I really wanted to Rebs minis. And I can't even drown my sorrows in cheesecake in the meantime.

Fear not. There is plenty of T&A for everyone over at Infinity in the meantime. Heck, even the latest FW press release has a gratuitous marine butt shot!

 Alpharius wrote:
Ah, now I remember nkelsch and his...special relationship with Mantic!
"Kroothawk, is that you?" springs to mind too!

No, I am leaning back, eating popcorn and watch the neverending drama-comedy.
Good thing that most Mantic customers still pay in advance before seeing the product, otherwise Mantic wouldn't exist anymore.
"It's not our fault that we release such crap" <- That's a good one

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Ah, now I remember nkelsch and his...special relationship with Mantic!
"Kroothawk, is that you?" springs to mind too!

No, I am leaning back, eating popcorn and watch the neverending drama-comedy.
Good thing that most Mantic customers still pay in advance before seeing the product, otherwise Mantic wouldn't exist anymore.
"It's not our fault that we release such crap" <- That's a good one

I find that I have to agree with you!

I really, REALLY hope they've learned their lesson by now, but...

...I suppose we'll see with Deadzone!

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I was gonna say...

For all of the heated debate those pictures have created, I for one am feeling very destitute.

See, I cancelled a pledge for Deadzone thinking that Toughest Girls of the Galaxy was going to be sooooo hot. I really wanted to Rebs minis. And I can't even drown my sorrows in cheesecake in the meantime.

Get a hold of another canadian backer and get them to up their pledge in the next survey.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Ah, now I remember nkelsch and his...special relationship with Mantic!
"Kroothawk, is that you?" springs to mind too!

No, I am leaning back, eating popcorn and watch the neverending drama-comedy.
Good thing that most Mantic customers still pay in advance before seeing the product, otherwise Mantic wouldn't exist anymore.
"It's not our fault that we release such crap" <- That's a good one

Kroot, that said, can you find any fault with the Deadzone stuff? Most people are crowing about how awesome it is, the only "hate" comes from the hand placement on that one girl's gun. I'd be interested to see if you can actually find things that are actually bad, as opposed to just you not liking Mantic.

And mentioning nkelsch...best just to tune out at this point.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
...the only "hate" comes from the hand placement on that one girl's gun.

Say what?

There have been plenty other problems pointed out. The "fixed" Marauders being the most common.

~Eric

Don't see the need for extremes?

At present Deadzone is looking someway better than what we have seen of the new KoW, although that doesn't necessarily mean it will be perfect. I think most people right now are probably a bit more confident about getting something worthwhile for their investment.

 Taarnak wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
...the only "hate" comes from the hand placement on that one girl's gun.

Say what?

There have been plenty other problems pointed out. The "fixed" Marauders being the most common.

~Eric

Most of the people who disliked the Orx voiced their opinions before, corrections have been made and MOST people have changed their viewpoints for the positive. Not all, but a big enough swing that those "issues" clearly come down to personal taste. So no, Orx certainly don't fall into the screw up category, otherwise even the fixes would have been met with a similar level of criticism.