Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

New Deadzone terrain looks cool. I like that they're incorporating more detail pieces as connectors, like those monitors. Now, if that next Deadzone KS has full plastic Corporate Marines, I think I may have to go all in on it.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Well then.

Did you not get your add ons locked in? Or did you just forget you'd already done it? They gave warning updates about it on the 30th, 20th and 13th of September

I'm looking forward to more DZ stuff and I'll be in for anything plastic for sure and probably everything in premium resin or metal, too. I hope they keep restic to a minimum.

I haven't filled out my third survey yet, but honestly I wish they would space their kickstarters out a little further. DKQ just wrapped up last month...

It would be nice if they did space out their kickstarters more, but I think kickstarters are now integral to Mantics business model. (At least their product growth)

I think we need to remember that at least 35% of the funds Mantic get from their kickstarters is gone before they even get it.

I'd guess that there's not that much left after the production and fixing their mistakes for future development.

 JoeRugby wrote:
It would be nice if they did space out their kickstarters more, but I think kickstarters are now integral to Mantics business model. (At least their product growth)

I think we need to remember that at least 35% of the funds Mantic get from their kickstarters is gone before they even get it.

I'd guess that there's not that much left after the production and fixing their mistakes for future development.

How do you figure 35%?

KS and Amazon payments grab about 5% each, right? Where does the other 25% go?

 CptJake wrote:

 JoeRugby wrote:
It would be nice if they did space out their kickstarters more, but I think kickstarters are now integral to Mantics business model. (At least their product growth)

I think we need to remember that at least 35% of the funds Mantic get from their kickstarters is gone before they even get it.

I'd guess that there's not that much left after the production and fixing their mistakes for future development.

How do you figure 35%?

KS and Amazon payments grab about 5% each, right? Where does the other 25% go?

Shipping?

Shipping is what I figured he meant as well.

The main thing keeping me from getting the HC rule book at this point is that there will most likely be an update to the rules in the new KS later this year, which will make it all but useless.

 CptJake wrote:

 JoeRugby wrote:
It would be nice if they did space out their kickstarters more, but I think kickstarters are now integral to Mantics business model. (At least their product growth)

I think we need to remember that at least 35% of the funds Mantic get from their kickstarters is gone before they even get it.

I'd guess that there's not that much left after the production and fixing their mistakes for future development.

How do you figure 35%?

KS and Amazon payments grab about 5% each, right? Where does the other 25% go?

Tax well VAT makes up 20% (in UK at least )

I thought KS fees were 10% (checked and their 5% my bad doh ) and Amazon payments were 3-5% + nominal transaction fee per backer.

Templarscrusade01 has a vid with Prodos where they talk about it, check it out I didn't think about tax until after I watched it.

I didn't even think about the hit a company would have to take on free shipping.

Nerdiness follows
If we worked out shipping for 1 wave of deadzone at just the parcelforce price (cheaper than Royal Mail for large items) for the sweetspot and no more you'd be looking at £10 per package.
That's £43,060.00 ($68764.00 with current exchange rates)just on shipping just to UK overseas shipping would be much higher.

I guess taxes and shipping, in my opinion, are like material and productions costs, part of the total product cost. You (as a business) charge a price that allows you to deliver the product and make the profit you feel makes it worth your while.

If a company like Mantic can't ensure taxes and shipping are covered within their price points I would be surprised.

 CptJake wrote:
I guess taxes and shipping, in my opinion, are like material and productions costs, part of the total product cost. You (as a business) charge a price that allows you to deliver the product and make the profit you feel makes it worth your while.

If a company like Mantic can't ensure taxes and shipping are covered within their price points I would be surprised.

I'd imagine they do (though if I recall from that interview it sounds like other kickstarters have been caught short by taxes). I was just using it to show that Mantic probably aren't making enough net profit from their kickstarter products to break free from having to use a kickstarter as part of their ongoing business model.

My assumption has always been that a vast majority of the kickstarter monies go into making the tools and producing everything, getting the rules writing paid for, maybe the marketing and packaging etc, such that they don't really make money from backers, they're basically treading water and getting the tools made. Then when they make retail sales they (potentially) rake in the monies there hand over fist as the tools have been paid for and the rules are written, theu just have to keep ahead of orders.

But I'm nobody's business major either.

So which things in the third survey are priced significantly lower than discount retail at this point?

I suspect that we're getting a good deal on peacekeepers at 5 for $10.

Enforcers seem alright for the price, but who knows after army deal discount + 3rd party discount.

Forge guard seem pretty solid too 6 hard plastic squatty not-terminators.

Battlezones seem to trend slightly better than retail discount but not enough so that I'd be kicking myself later on.

Gonna look at it later tonight and figure out what if anything I want.

Oh the connector bundle is solid. 5 for 10 and I think they're 20 on the mantic webstore.

Peacekeepers, Enforcers Booster, Zombies, probably the terrain bundles and the Asterian and Forge Father faction Starters, I think.

It's quite difficult to tell, I imagine, but those are either massively cheaper, or they contain significantly more models than their retail equivalents.

Peacekeepers are definitely a fantastic deal, and the Striders are normally $20 (16 discounted), so $10 is a steal.

Forge Guard are also $10 in the survey and $19.99/£9.99/€12.99 for preorder on the Mantic site, don't think discounters (in the US at least) will beat that

So they are $20? That's cool, seems like a pretty solid retail price when you compare them with terminators and the like. If peacekeepers come out the same way they'll probably do really well. Bit more worried about enforcers though. If they want $20 for 5 they'll be the same price for 10 as a tactical squad and even though they have options to make 2 (3 after a couple of boxes) different squad types included, things costing the same as GW is generally a bad trend. Hard to say though, they may have larger squad size discounted costs (and may not cost that much at retail either), and Mantic usually has fairly strongly discounted army sets too...

Need to go fill my own survey out before I forget =/

The restic regular enforcers are currently $19.99/£9.99/€12.99 and have been the whole time, but there's no pricing or preorder for the new hard plastic ones - I think it's possible there will be a price drop when switching to the new material, I know I've seen a bunch of old metal KoW stuff in the discount bin that is identical to something now made in restic or hard plastic but with double the original RRP.

NTRabbit wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Well then.

Did you not get your add ons locked in? Or did you just forget you'd already done it? They gave warning updates about it on the 30th, 20th and 13th of September

It doesn't really matter. I told Stewart in an email that I wouldn't be adding anything unless the Mars Attacks rewards were out, giving me a chance to experience the new plastic. He assured me that I would have a chance to find out if I liked the new material before filling out the pledge manager for DBX. Obviously, that did not come to pass.

I feel like Mantic is in too much of a rush. Why did they need to close the pledge manager so soon after another campaign and before their customers received anything from the previous campaign? Beyond wallet fatigue, their fast pace is costing them money due to creating a sense of shadiness or incompetence. Slowwwww Dowwwwwwwwn, Mantic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

NTRabbit wrote:
Forge Guard are also $10 in the survey and $19.99/£9.99/€12.99 for preorder on the Mantic site, don't think discounters (in the US at least) will beat that

$19.99 for 6 or for 12? For 6 HIPS figures--one sprue--that seems a bit ridiculous. For 2 sprues, the eventual discount will be far better than buying in bulk from the pledge manager.

Maybe it's a good thing I only ordered one or two sprues of all the new plastics to test them out. Except for the Men at Arms. I got a gakload of those.

NTRabbit wrote:
Forge Guard are also $10 in the survey and $19.99/£9.99/€12.99 for preorder on the Mantic site, don't think discounters (in the US at least) will beat that

Miniature Market is selling Forge Guard for $16 so they beat the pre-order but not the KS survey price.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

It doesn't really matter. I told Stewart in an email that I wouldn't be adding anything unless the Mars Attacks rewards were out, giving me a chance to experience the new plastic. He assured me that I would have a chance to find out if I liked the new material before filling out the pledge manager for DBX. Obviously, that did not come to pass.

I feel like Mantic is in too much of a rush. Why did they need to close the pledge manager so soon after another campaign and before their customers received anything from the previous campaign? Beyond wallet fatigue, their fast pace is costing them money due to creating a sense of shadiness or incompetence. Slowwwww Dowwwwwwwwn, Mantic.

I didn't have an email back and forth with Stewart, but I was also interested in seeing the MA plastic before putting a cent into the DBX PM. With the result that I didn't. They got my $1 "donation" in the KS, I guess.

privateer4hire wrote:

Miniature Market is selling Forge Guard for $16 so they beat the pre-order but not the KS survey price.

Yeah that's what I meant, they'd beat the Mantic store but not the KS price, for a sprue of 6 anyway. Mantic are always cheapest in bulk, so if you're after 30+ Forge Guard the smart money is always going to be in the post-KS army deal.

Once again, are you sure that price is for one sprue? It seems way too high.

They are indeed 1 sprue for $19.99

http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/pre-order/deadzone/product/forge-father-forge-guard-booster.html

 DaveC wrote:
They are indeed 1 sprue for $19.99

http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/pre-order/deadzone/product/forge-father-forge-guard-booster.html

Their web page is messed up with the prices it shows. When I view that your 19.99 price is what shows up, but when I scroll to the bottom I see the FORGE FATHER BROKKR BOOSTER for 9.99. Yet when I click on it I see them at 19.99 (and see the forge guard listed at the bottom for 9.99).


I guess it is a $$ to Pound error (shows as pounds at the bottom, but the item page shows dollars).

For $19.99, they're as expensive per model as metals. While I like working with plastic more than metal, I fully expect the economy of scale involved to yield an attractive savings for me, the consumer.

Twenty bucks for 6 dwarfs is a GW-level pricing disincentive. It's not like Mantic's new plastics have tons of extra bits, either. What in the hell were they thinking?

Mantic: Building bigger price tags.

No joke. For a couple of bucks more I can get really nice Wargames Factory zombie survivors, with 30 figures and a TON of extra weapons and accessories. Or 18 sci fi shock troopers.

That is how to price plastics...

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Twenty bucks for 6 dwarfs is a GW-level pricing disincentive. It's not like Mantic's new plastics have tons of extra bits, either. What in the hell were they thinking?

"These are the Forge Father equivalent of Space Marine Terminators, so 40% of the price, plus an extra model compared to them seems reasonable."

Would be my guess. In saying that, considering their price in £, around $18 for the 6 would seem a bit fairer. - And would still include an 'exchange rate' buffer of a couple of dollars.