Red Box Games - Goblin Horde Kickstarter ($2.5k to Berserkers - Wolf Rider WIPS Page 7)

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**RiTides**

I ave decided that even if they don't fund I'll just get his regular dire wolves and convert them with footmen on top

**Azazelx**

recruittons wrote:
I actually really like the idea of conservative projects. Shooting for the moon means that delays are inevitable, which can affect reputations, timetables, and cause jaded backers to walk away.

Personally, I think you would do best retooling small chunks of models very quickly. It would make for a smoother process, I think. Doing them in big spurts is just a ton of logistics to juggle all at once. I vote finishing out this project, do it fast and well, and watch the next one attract more customers.

THIS.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

tre manor wrote:

Well I don't think there is a lack of interest in the Wolf Riders or Bonebacks it is more the opportunity for creating successful product that I was referring to. As per the idea of launchign a new KS with the bonebacks and riders..... well that is exactly what i woudl do BUT I will have to deliver on this stuff first which means a delay between now and the time of the next KS, and then there is also the delay between that KS and final fulfillment. Ugh..... What happened to the good old days of makign something and putting it up in a store??

You're welcome to just do that, you know. You don't have to Kickstart everything.

Get the Helsvakt into the store and start making some income. If Trollforged is the problem, get yourself a second supplier. Look at Anvil Industries in the UK.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Da Boss wrote:
Agreed, Tre. Kickstarter mania has destabilised the market.

I dunno about that. People still buy things via internet retailers and FLGS. A lot of Kickstarters don't offer particularly good value over RRP either. Perhaps it impacts Tre more than others because he no longer has production going out to retailers because of the discontinuation of his metal line and he sells his remaining stuff directly on his website. Speaking for myself, the shine has certainly left the idea of Kickstarters, and I'm not really looking at backing much any more.

If you want to worry about devalued perceptions, just look at Reaper. Not even their Bones KS. The Bones line (started before KS, but obviously going to be huge at retail shortly) is what endangers current perceived value more than any number of small startups like Stonehaven miniatures selling a few Dwarves or Gnomes.

**RiTides**

Here are the wolf rider WIPs since they got caught on the page rollover:

czakk wrote:
Wolf Rider WIPS

I'm still just as excited about this

although really I just want the bonebacks, and I think we can get them just fine. It'd be nice if they all unlocked at 20K, though, instead of just 6 of them!

**Trodax**

Azazelx wrote:

tre manor wrote:
Ugh..... What happened to the good old days of makign something and putting it up in a store??

You're welcome to just do that, you know. You don't have to Kickstart everything.

Get the Helsvakt into the store and start making some income.

Exactly; get those gorgeous guys out there so I can buy them already!

If you feel bad about Kickstarter, think of it this way. If not for Kickstarter, I'd have never heard of Tre Manor or Red Box Games (granted, I'm kind of new to the mini hobby outside of GW, so I may just be an ignorant fool). But now, after hearing about how awesome your first KS was, I'm keeping my eyes on Red Box developments, and I'm talking about your awesome minis with my buddies. So even if you in the end lost money over KS1, you may have gained reputation and potential customers.

**Mr Gutsy**

Azazelx wrote:

tre manor wrote:

What happened to the good old days of makign something and putting it up in a store??

You're welcome to just do that, you know. You don't have to Kickstart everything.

Get the Helsvakt into the store and start making some income. If Trollforged is the problem, get yourself a second supplier. Look at Anvil Industries in the UK.

I agree with Azazel, I just don't understand why Tre thinks that KS is the only way now to release new models. For the regiments that don't quite fit into his future Kickstarter plans (The Helsmaidens are a good example.) i think that Tre should just consider selling pre-orders for them from the RBG website and include an exclusive item in the deal as a way to help entice more early buyers. (This method of pre-order has worked pretty well for Taban, Raging heroes and Avatar of War in the past.) It would also help Tre get some actual money out of those sculpts now, instead of just sitting on the models for 6-12 months in the hopes that the next Kickstarter is successful enough to pay for them.

The exclusive item wouldn't need to be anything too major either, it could be a brand new sculpt or a modified existing model. A single sprue containing a few unique weapons/heads/gear, or even just a small familiar that could be a mascot for the regiment.

(Just another shout out for the Helsmaidens, i'd love to be able to get a full unit without having to wait until the next Helsvakt KS is launched...)

**RiTides**

Those are great points, and I hope Tre heeds them once this is over

as I'd love to see things back up in his store for sale.

Particularly, if anything here doesn't fund (like the wolf riders) but is Already Sculpted, putting it up for preorder in his store would be great for everybody

. But even moreso things that are already cast and in his hands going up for sale.

I just upped my pledge by $5 and we've got 3 new backers today

. Hopefully we will start the final upward climb! I am really happy with my pledge now that I've decided just to pledge for dire wolves and bonebacks with my extra funds. If the wolf riders don't unlock, bare dire wolves will suit me just fine

**recruittons**

So I painted my first Boneback today. I have the full set in metal, and they were so cool looking that I was afraid to touch brush to them. Well, I can honestly say this was one of the easiest and most fun to paint models I own. Seriously.

It's not a stellar paint job, but it only took me 90 minutes and I'm actually really happy with it. Thank you, Tre, for making such amazing gob-orcs!

I highly recommend anyone who doesn't have these to pledge for at least 1 special rank and get 12. They are awesome!

**Da Boss**

Hmmm. The number of backers has increased slightly, but we've lost over 1000 in pledge money. Wonder what's happening there?

**Mahrdol**

Da Boss wrote:
Hmmm. The number of backers has increased slightly, but we've lost over 1000 in pledge money. Wonder what's happening there?

The pledges have a expectation on what they wanted from this KS. That expectation does not match reality of how the KS is doing so they are reducing their pledges. It happened to me and may happen again because right now my pledge is not valid unless more stretch goals open up.

**Da Boss**

Aye, but wouldn't it make sense to wait until nearer the end to do that? If everyone loses confidence, then we won't get to the stretch goals. Whereas if we all stuck with it, we might get some momentum going.

**Mahrdol**

Da Boss wrote:
Aye, but wouldn't it make sense to wait until nearer the end to do that? If everyone loses confidence, then we won't get to the stretch goals. Whereas if we all stuck with it, we might get some momentum going.

I am going to leave mine for now but some of the stretch goals like the last one have a very little chance of funding 3 different special ranks so unless you want 3 duplicate sets. I see no point in being in there. Right now no special ranks are even available so I can see why people are dropping down.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Da Boss wrote:
Aye, but wouldn't it make sense to wait until nearer the end to do that? If everyone loses confidence, then we won't get to the stretch goals. Whereas if we all stuck with it, we might get some momentum going.

Depends on how/where they access the net,

If you access it at work, but will be on holiday or out on the road it may well make sense to reduce now and increase again if things improve if you DO manage to get net access

**Mahrdol**

I think this is the first KS I have seen where some pledge levels are not valid and will only become valid depending on future stretch goals. I think this is part of the reason why it is not succeeding to my expectation.

**Da Boss**

That's a fair point.

**CashWiley**

I'm still in on my initial pledge that includes special ranks, just to try and keep things from deflating further, but there's no reason to pledge more than the $55 pledge level and add funds for one more solo rank. Assuming the deflation doesn't drop it below 15k.

Right now there are only 2 lesser ranks and 3 solo, dropping it below 15k would be 2 lesser ranks and a single solo option.

**judgedoug**

Methinks it should have been structured this way:

initial goal 10k
funds 1 normal rank (12 spearmen), 1 solo (3 archers), 1 special (6 bonebacks)

alternative stretch goals every 5k unlocking another rank/solo/special:
15k - 6 more bonebacks
20k - characters
25k - rank footmen
30k - 2 wolf riders
35k - more characters

etc

So that way all pledge levels would have had something initially.

**czakk**

Bonebacks will be in sooner.

Hey Ya'll Ok I figured out a way to get the bonebacks in sooner rather than later and almost definitely by the end of the campaign. Now instead of waiting to fund two sets of 6 I will break them up into 3 sets fo four. That brings the funding much closer into reach. So now when we hit $18,000.00 4 bonebacks will unlock. These will still count as 1 special rank selection so if the other 8 do not fund then you will receive 3 sets of these four unlocked uniques as a full rank ( 12 figures total. ). Then as the two other sets of four unlock they will replace one set of duplicates in the final 12. This way the special ranks selections are CERTAIN to have value and we are CERTAIN to get the bonebacks in. I think once the one set is unlocked and in we will see the second two sets rather quickly as people get back in on the campaign...... Oddly enough if no one had reduced or canceled their pledges we would already be over $25,000.00. :/

So we can do this, I blame myself for not adding in more variety from the beginning and for mis-prioritizing the initial goals. The Bonebacks should have been first and then followed by the footmen, then spearmen and then archers and solos. Sorry guys the NEXT campaign will be a ringer!

**RiTides**

Seems like a great idea to me. Puts people's minds at ease to have some of them unlocked sooner

but I still think we'll get all the bonebacks.

I need to confirm that my pledge works with Tre, but I'm going to post it here (feel free to comment if you see it, Tre!).

Long Howler's Tribal War Host ($165 + $5 shipping)
Runty Gobs War Party ($115 + $3 shipping)

That gives me a total of 5 lesser ranks, 5 special ranks, and 8 solos. To that I will add:

1 Solo ($5)
3 Dire Wolves ($15)

Total: $300 + $8 shipping

I am going to divide it up as follows:

21 Archers
24 Spearmen
36 Footmen
60 Bonebacks
Dog's Bane
Black Tongue

Also going to ask Tre if he can make a note to swap 4 spearmen for 4 more footmen (since they're in the same category) so that I can basically have 20 archers, 20 spearmen, 40 footmen, and 60 bonebacks

**tre manor**

Hmmm.....Swapping the footmen in liek that might not be do-able. Too much of that and I will go absolutely INSANE!!

As to the rest it looks right to me.

**judgedoug**

A couple hand-snip-glue-swaps would work, RiTides.

**RiTides**

Yeah, I'm sure I will figure something out!

**Trodax**

This last reshuffling is a good move I think; we're now only $2500 away from unlocking (at least some of) the bonebacks. Having those in the bag will mean a lot I think, since people won't have to worry as much about what to fill their special ranks with.

There are 6 days left, still time for this to turn around! We just need a couple more fellows that, like RiTides, realise what an enormous army you can affordably get here.

(I think that horde is going to look awesome.)
Or, barring that, a slightly few more fellows that realise that you can get one of each of 29 beautiful, currently funded goblins for the very reasonable price of $60. Throw in some dire wolves, and you have a pretty nice deal, with the additional chance that bonebacks, wolf riders and trolls will also become available. Do it!

**grefven**

Had I been playing any fantasy wargame I'd definately would have built up an army around Tre's goblins! Compared with GW, for example, you'd get an army for half the price! Granted, Tre's figures are smaller, but if you get an entire army, it would still look right.

**RiTides**

Tre, I sent you a PM on here, just FYI

I can send it through Kickstarter if that's easier for you.

**tre manor**

Got it RiTides....sorry I always miss my PM's here.

**RiTides**

Service with a smile, I'm always a sucker for project creators who respond quickly and post here

. Can't wait for the last few days push!!

**rpgplayer88**

For a miniature kickstarter without gaming rules, I'd say it's quite a success for Tre.
If the kickstarter should reorganize using backer's opinion, I recommend opening a poll thread somewhere in the forum to vote would be one of the choice

**RiTides**

Down to 5.5 days left I think, within a 2-3 days I expect the final rise to start, with a 5K bump the last day. Bonebacks will be in easily despite current backer indecision

. See the Endless Fantasy Tactics kicktraq graph for a similar dip in the middle, then last 2 days surge.

**Mr Gutsy**

I wish i had as much faith in the campaign as you Rtides. Don't get me wrong, im praying that over the last few days this campaign will somehow defy all odds and skyrocket into the $100,000+ region. But so far i've seen a quite a few people state that they're planning to lower their pledge if there isn't a decent final push, and when you consider that a total of 69 people are currently pledging for rewards that contain 'Special Ranks' you just have to wonder how many of those people might also be planning to lower if there isn't a sign of that boost.

I was actually planning on lowering my 'Warhost' pledge today, but since the campaign is only at $15,005 i just didn't want to be the one to push the campaign back under the 'Runty Goblin' stretch goal...

**Da Boss**

Aye, at present I have pledged for the top level +110 not counting shipping. But as it stands, I'm likely to be looking at having 9 of the same Bonebacks for quite a chunk of that pledge if I don't reduce my special rank commitment, and perhaps even nothing stated for it.

I'm a supporter and a fan, but we need something now as a special rank option, something to give confidence and get things moving. I'd say we've needed it for about 5 days now. I obviously know nothing about the logisitcs of it, but it would seem to me that offering some stuff that has already been dispatched from KS1 (Like the very popular zombies, or Helsvakt) as a special rank would go a long way towards getting some positive momentum going.

I'm sure Tre has thought of all that at this stage and probably has his reasons for not going down that route, but I'd be really curious as to what they are. We seem stuck between a rock and a hard place right now.