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Hey dakka, so i would like to know, is it possible for a successor chapter to have multiple parent chapters to try and eliminate the genetic flaws of ones geneseed ?
Eg. Imperial fists and Blood angels ? to try and eliminate the flaws from the BA seed ?

Thanks in advance

It has happened once to one space marine, and he was a chaos marine, honsu is a mix of several different legions created by fabious bile,so basically the answer is.no. Mixing Geneseed does not work properly and will result is wild mutation or death

Have been done before. Your reasoning can at least be bought (unlike other chapters I have seen here). But then they are of the cursed 21st.

Then lights, film, camera, go.

If you want to have an army of Blood Angels without Flaws. Try Lamentors. The most awesome Chapter imo. Also the one that is most screwed over in fluff terms.

 Warp Angels wrote:
Hey dakka, so i would like to know, is it possible for a successor chapter to have multiple parent chapters to try and eliminate the genetic flaws of ones geneseed ?
Eg. Imperial fists and Blood angels ? to try and eliminate the flaws from the BA seed ?

Thanks in advance

While you can always fall back on the "anything is possible", and the "21st Founding", ultimately, why is the AdMech going to bother when they can crank out another Ultramarines successor and not have to worry about missing organs, or genetic defects, or secret brotherhoods and such?


But yeah, the AdMech did all kinds of loopy nonsensical stuff during the 21st Founding, trying to make better Space Marines and correct gene flaws. Ultimately the 21st Founding was full of epic failures, for the most part, though. Making Space Marines isn't a process it is generally advisable to mess around with, at least as far as the fluff has seemed to suggest. Mostly because nobody's actually sure how it works, only how to replicate it.

Only Fabius Bile has every done it 'successfully'
unless you count the the cursed founding.
Lots of speculation whether they made a primarch or mixed geneseed.

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
If you want to have an army of Blood Angels without Flaws. Try Lamentors. The most awesome Chapter imo. Also the one that is most screwed over in fluff terms.

I refuse to call a bunch of pansies who weep and scratch their cheeks up at funerals awesome.

 Beaviz81 wrote:

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
If you want to have an army of Blood Angels without Flaws. Try Lamentors. The most awesome Chapter imo. Also the one that is most screwed over in fluff terms.

I refuse to call a bunch of pansies who weep and scratch their cheeks up at funerals awesome.

Sounds like someone has never read their write up in the Badab War books.

Yes, it is. Especially in M41 where a lot of chapters have lost their original heritage.

It's suspected the Blood Ravens have multiple predecessors.

 Harriticus wrote:
Yes, it is. Especially in M41 where a lot of chapters have lost their original heritage.

It's suspected the Blood Ravens have multiple predecessors.

Thats just a theory.

The Soul Drinkers are more likely to be multiple heritages.

jareddm wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
If you want to have an army of Blood Angels without Flaws. Try Lamentors. The most awesome Chapter imo. Also the one that is most screwed over in fluff terms.

I refuse to call a bunch of pansies who weep and scratch their cheeks up at funerals awesome.

Sounds like someone has never read their write up in the Badab War books.

They were torn up by the Minotaurs. Big deal.

 Beaviz81 wrote:

jareddm wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
If you want to have an army of Blood Angels without Flaws. Try Lamentors. The most awesome Chapter imo. Also the one that is most screwed over in fluff terms.

I refuse to call a bunch of pansies who weep and scratch their cheeks up at funerals awesome.

Sounds like someone has never read their write up in the Badab War books.

They were torn up by the Minotaurs. Big deal.

Read what they did at Slaughterhouse III. I'd like to see any other chapter do the same and refuse any reward for it.

They still weep and scratch their cheeks up. And plenty of chapter doesn't claim rewards, mostly it's because the reward would be crappy. It's sort of me giving you 22 kg of Edam-cheese for you overhauling my car.

So, overall it would be possible although very unlikely ? and very risky ?

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
Yes, it is. Especially in M41 where a lot of chapters have lost their original heritage.

It's suspected the Blood Ravens have multiple predecessors.

Thats just a theory.

The Soul Drinkers are more likely to be multiple heritages.

0.o The Soul Drinkers are a second founding chapter. They were formed from the ship to ship boarding action specialists of the Imperial Fists. That's also why the Imperial Fists recorded their names on their memorial on Terra...

Anyhow...

I didn't realize having multiple parent chapters was a problem? It was something that was pandered about in White Dwarf in chapter's background a while ago. For instance when the Blood Ravens first came about they were speculated to have the Blood Angels and Raven Guard as parents in their Index Astartes article. Of course we all know that they're really Thousand Sons descendants.

Lamentors. Only ever have less than 500 Battlebrothers. They had the cure to the Black Rage for a long time, until it took shape again. Now all that is left of the chapter is a badass Dreadnought so awesome that he would never let a Xeno live to show that he is not as cursed as his chapter was. Just my opinion though.

 Warp Angels wrote:
So, overall it would be possible although very unlikely ? and very risky ?

It is possible and if it did happen it would have been in the Cursed founding. 21st if you want to know. Good Luck to you and may your new chapter be awesome.

Strictly speaking, Grey Knights are a chapter made of varying gene stock. The individual marines in said chapter, not so much.

You could also think of the Death Watch the same way.

 Dentry wrote:
Strictly speaking, Grey Knights are a chapter made of varying gene stock. The individual marines in said chapter, not so much.

You could also think of the Death Watch the same way.

The grey knights are made of a single unique genestock as said in their codex. The original founding memebers (those marines still loyal from traitor legions) did not pass on their geneseed, because they most likely did not have any (the great crusade had rapid induction rates of marines so all geneseed would be removed when mature so most marines would not have any geneseed in them after 10 years.

The deathwatch are an organisation of inducted marines and not a chapter.

To the OP: it is believed that the Ad Mech tried to fix the flaws of geneseed (this may have included mixing geneseed) but the effects of this experiment varied wildly sif you want a chapter to have this origin it will have to have a curse/flaw.

The minotaurs is a chapter with multiple parents.

 CuddlySquig wrote:
The minotaurs is a chapter with multiple parents.

Personally, I wish people would stop saying this or the World Eaters theory like it's "fact"...

OT because this is not about elimination of the genetic flaws. Nevertheless, should fit the theme.. .

As a newcomer to 40k I hope I' m not making a fool of myself but why no one mentions Relictors ?

Lexicanum:
"They are believed to have been created from Ultramarines and Dark Angels gene-seed and were one of the Astartes Praeses Chapters, created to guard the Eye of Terror."

Of course the words "They are believed to" somewhat questions the content but so far I have managed to dismiss all doubt. So is it false or is it just up to myself to decide how I interpret Relictors background?

The Relictors IA article noted that they are believed to be based on Ultramarine and Dark Angel geneseed, and then noted this would be highly unusual.. Because of the use of Dark Angel geneseed! If actual mixed geneseed was a never done perversity you'd think they'd have banged on about THAT being unusual..

Edit: DAMN. Ninja'd!

 BluntmanDC wrote:
The grey knights are made of a single unique genestock as said in their codex. The original founding memebers (those marines still loyal from traitor legions) did not pass on their geneseed, because they most likely did not have any (the great crusade had rapid induction rates of marines so all geneseed would be removed when mature so most marines would not have any geneseed in them after 10 years.

The deathwatch are an organisation of inducted marines and not a chapter.

To the OP: it is believed that the Ad Mech tried to fix the flaws of geneseed (this may have included mixing geneseed) but the effects of this experiment varied wildly sif you want a chapter to have this origin it will have to have a curse/flaw.

The point being that Grey Knights began as such; they were an amalgam of different then-legion's geneseed. And the Deathwatch is functionally a chapter except that, as you noted, their recruitment practices aren't standard.

There's no obstacle to having a chapter with multiple parent chapters except other people telling you they don't like it.

As stated before and in the GK Codex they come from a single unique genestock. That being said however, the original crew of Garro et all were more like the veterans assigned to train and lead this new chapter. Much like has happened oft through the new foundings.

 Wyrmalla wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
Yes, it is. Especially in M41 where a lot of chapters have lost their original heritage.

It's suspected the Blood Ravens have multiple predecessors.

Thats just a theory.

The Soul Drinkers are more likely to be multiple heritages.

0.o The Soul Drinkers are a second founding chapter. They were formed from the ship to ship boarding action specialists of the Imperial Fists. That's also why the Imperial Fists recorded their names on their memorial on Terra...

Anyhow...

I didn't realize having multiple parent chapters was a problem? It was something that was pandered about in White Dwarf in chapter's background a while ago. For instance when the Blood Ravens first came about they were speculated to have the Blood Angels and Raven Guard as parents in their Index Astartes article. Of course we all know that they're really Thousand Sons descendants.

Read the Soul Drinkers last book for a revelation.

I still believe the cursed founding was the result of mixing of geneseed

 Dentry wrote:

 BluntmanDC wrote:
The grey knights are made of a single unique genestock as said in their codex. The original founding memebers (those marines still loyal from traitor legions) did not pass on their geneseed, because they most likely did not have any (the great crusade had rapid induction rates of marines so all geneseed would be removed when mature so most marines would not have any geneseed in them after 10 years.

The deathwatch are an organisation of inducted marines and not a chapter.

To the OP: it is believed that the Ad Mech tried to fix the flaws of geneseed (this may have included mixing geneseed) but the effects of this experiment varied wildly sif you want a chapter to have this origin it will have to have a curse/flaw.

The point being that Grey Knights began as such; they were an amalgam of different then-legion's geneseed. And the Deathwatch is functionally a chapter except that, as you noted, their recruitment practices aren't normal.

A. No that is not mentioned in the GK fluff, what is mentioned is that the geneseed is new and unique, (an amalgum of geneseeds cannot be unique by its very nature, so your idea doesn't work.)
B. The Deathwatch is not a chapter by its very definition, it does not have the same command structure, training, recruiting or organisation. A Chapter refers to a specific organisation, with specific requirements.

You could try mixing geneseed, but you'd generally get strange results, abnormalities, and assorted troubles that could lead to disagreements/accusations of mutation/whatnot.

What are you trying to achieve here? Might be better to alter the fluff/paint/army composition slightly to fit one or the other better than to try and justify an implausible combination.

I thought the 13th Founding was the one where they "fiddled" with the Geneseed to try and correct the flaws?

Its what my chapter is supposed to come from - IH and BA mixed to try and correct the BA geneseed flaw.

I remember reading somewhere that the Black Dragons had chimeric Geneseed, and that one of their parent chapters were the Salamanders.

Whether it's true or I dreamed the whole thing or not is different matter as I haven't been able to find the source since. So likely it was a dream

On a somewhat related note I seem to remember reading that some new chapters have been formed from the remnants of other badly depleted chapters, or that under-strength chapters have 'taken in' the remnants of almost destroyed chapters.

I'm not sure how this would effect the genestock of those chapters. Some chapters have their own specific rituals that are a prerequisite of their genetic enhancements (canis helix, insanguination etc etc) so I would think either:

A) Some of the progenoids from fallen marines would not be harvested as they cannot be implanted & activated in new recruits. One genetic lineage only would be adopted for the chapter. (Most likely)

B) The chapter has several different methods of creating marines based on their genetic lineage (unlikely)

B) Everything goes into some kind of gene-pot and the successive generations of marines are hybrids of their forebears. (Most unlikely)