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"There are 3 planned pretty big systems in the Gambler's Chest. Two of them are very much intertwined. We'll get into it in the next few days / weeks!"

Chopxsticks wrote:
The other thing that gets me is how much people threw in before they even knew what things cost. At this point Adam could be going back through all the updates and adjusting prices. This is extreme Conspiracy Theory, but its a valid point. People pledged for things they dont even know the cost of.

Well, partially it's the mad rush to get a good EB pledge to drives that. I jumped in early for my BF Silver Lantern because that looked like the best option for me from a glance at prices. I loaded the Kickstarter page within 15 seconds of it going live, and when I blacked it only showed 3 other backers. I'm backer 245. I only started really looking at the page and pledge levels after, and even then there's the pledges were filling up fast. Everyone knew this was going to be big, and it was an unknown just how fast the EB pledges would go. I understand that the idea of Adam changing the prices for planned stretch goals seems a bit far fetched and conspiratorial, but look at that from a business/economical perspective: it's a course of action that has no downsides. It's not like Adam will come out twirling a mustache laughing how the money already pledged will pay for upcoming stretch goals, but we'll never know the reality if he does do that. And in full honesty, I'm torn on that.

- On one hand, if I were advising Adam about financial matter, I would avidly recommend doing just that. It will bring in more pledge money that, as I said before, can be used in a number of ways to help the project and the company have better monetary breathing room. Breathing room that can better ensure that the company survives to actually deliver everything.

- But on the other hand, I am a consumer, and on a strained college student budget. I don't want to have spent $230 on just an update (that from the sounds of it includes a number of things that were going to be in the Lantern Festival), the Gambler's Box (which I agree with NewTruthNeomaxim, sounds like a very lackluster and dubious thing), a single expansion, and a single new monster. The idea that things were left shrouded to potentially increase funds for things that will probably be additional costing as add-ons doesn't really sit too well with me.


And it's that very blatant (or seemingly) lack of preparation that's not sitting well for me. The FAQ, for example, is there now; it wasn't at the start of the campaign.

- In the best case, this is gross incompetence on the parts of Adam and everyone else working there. I stand by my statement that there was no chance that this wasn't going to be a massive funding success. A quick cursory look at the online community would have shown that over a month ago. For them to be this unprepared - not only in terms of plans, but in how little information was present at the start, and how they are moving forward with communication/releasing information - it's boggling my mind so much; I'm finding it hard to believe that their claims of complete surprise are true.

- In a more neutral case, if Adam and company didn't expect things to be this big and this fast, and are trying to stretch things out to allow for the already raised funds to pad other aspects of the Kickstarter or company - that's not sinister, but again the seeming lack of preparedness or clarity of information doesn't really fill me with confidence. These are mistakes that a first time Kickstarter might make a few years ago, but with so many successful Kickstarters and having several under his belt now, these are mistakes that Adam and company should not be making.

- And worst case scenario, the massive success in funding was predicted, and the lack of information was planned to allow goals to be shifted around to maximize the potential revenue. Most likely not the truth of the situation, but with the way things have gotten off to a start and the way that things have been progressing, as I said in my previous post it's hard not to feel a bit wary and cynical.


Like SpiralingCadaver, I'm trying to hold my judgement until more information is released. But if things start shaping up to be inauspicious, such as the vast majority of "already unlocked" goals being paper materials and miniatures/expansions being disproportionally placed in higher funding levels, or the already tooled Lantern Festival miniatures needing more funds to be unlocked, I'm not going to to have a happy tone about this. And the rampant fanboyism that is present in the Kickstarter comments is astounding me. As I said before, if any other company, people would be vocal about the red flags.

 RivenSkull wrote:
I stand by my statement that there was no chance that this wasn't going to be a massive funding success. A quick cursory look at the online community would have shown that over a month ago. For them to be this unprepared - not only in terms of plans, but in how little information was present at the start, and how they are moving forward with communication/releasing information - it's boggling my mind so much; I'm finding it hard to believe that their claims of complete surprise are true.

Maybe, maybe they had their expectations set at reasonable levels, people saying they will do something and people doing it especially at KDM prices are two entirely different worlds and expecting it to reach the levels it reached the last time in the time-frame it reached them last time is not an illogical assumption.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Maybe, maybe they had their expectations set at reasonable levels, people saying they will do something and people doing it especially at KDM prices are two entirely different worlds and expecting it to reach the levels it reached the last time in the time-frame it reached them last time is not an illogical assumption.

I would disagree with that.

The last Kickstarter was in 2012 - a very different time for Kickstarters and Kingdom Death. Four years ago was at the cusp of the tabletop gaming renaissance that crowdfunding has enabled, and the widespread acceptance of using Kickstarter for games wasn't as common. Kingdom Death was a small miniature company, producing a very ambitious project that was going to be using 2012-era PVC miniatures until towards the end it was switched to HIPS.

This Kickstarter is for a reprint of an already produced game. A game with some of the best produced plastic miniatures on the market, that has had widespread praise and acclaim for the quality of the game itself. This draws in both the miniature crowd and the board gaming crowd. Even at a $400 price tag, the game sold out very quickly, and lots of people have been trying to get a hold of Kingdom Death: Monster, and many are willing to pay very high prices for it. Adam has lamented eBay for the markups that all of the Kingdom Death products sell for - he's very aware of the price people are willing to pay. And for those who wanted the game but didn't like the $400 cost, the second Kickstarter was going to be the only chance at getting it at a lower cost. Especially since there is very little risk in backing this project for an already completed product.

And many online communities have been full of people who were very excited for this Kickstarter. I feel that a few hours looking into online communities, doing a little bit of research, would have shown the massive hype surrounding the chance to buy KD:M at a "sale" price. We here commonly jest about GW's former policy to not perform consumer research. When new, small companies like Diemension Games can spend time to research and drum up support for a brand new game like Deep Madness, I find it hard to see that a company like Kingdom Death, who knew the selling factors of its products, would be caught off guard at the result of this project.

I'm sure Adam expected it to be both a success and popular. I don't think anyone expected over four million pledged in less than 24 hours from the start. I also don't think Adam expected to even hit the two million dollar mark, given that he was mostly pitching a reprint of a sold out game.

Adam just opened up some more Black Friday pledges if anyone still wants to jump in or change your level.

That Black Friday Gambler's Lantern is so tempting but I've already secured a Black Friday Silver Lantern. Must resist temptation to switch...

A handful of people buying the game for $800 on eBay != broad enough demand to catapult past $4MM in less than 24 hours. When it comes time to expect people to put hundreds of dollars where there mouths are, I can appreciate being on the cautious side.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A handful of people buying the game for $800 on eBay != broad enough demand to catapult past $4MM in less than 24 hours. When it comes time to expect people to put hundreds of dollars where there mouths are, I can appreciate being on the cautious side.

Something you guys might want to be aware of.

Q: Does the Satan's Lantern Pledge include the Resin Pinups from the 2012 Kickstarter Campaign?

A: No it does not. It includes all of the hard plastic pinups.

Just in case you guys were expecting everything.

(duplicate post)

More BF deals are open everyone

.

So Update 4, and its announced the new book is hard back,. This is the sh*t I'm talking about, Thats not a stretch goal to announce, why could it not have been part of the original KS page... its just the little frustrations that add up..

 Breotan wrote:
I'm sure Adam expected it to be both a success and popular. I don't think anyone expected over four million pledged in less than 24 hours from the start. I also don't think Adam expected to even hit the two million dollar mark, given that he was mostly pitching a reprint of a sold out game.

Also, add in all the people saying how unhappy they were about the cancellation of the Lantern Festival (and how they won't back KD2 because of it) and there's another reason why one wouldn't expect this KS to outdo (in less than 24 hours) the first KS.

Certainly, there are lots of reasons to have expected this KS to do well, but to hit four million in less than a day? THAT is unexpected.

New update



All these male pinups are hilarious.

Hardback rulebook! I'll stop complaining now, poots wins my moneys. Plus only revealing male pin-ups is hilarious.

Probably because he wanted such news about the stretch goals to generate hype?

Even though I did stay up late and grabbed one of those elusive 777 pledges I have to congratulate his decision to open more black Friday gamblers lanterns, it is the most logical package for returning completionists.

I, for one, am happy that we'll be getting a hardback rulebook. It's not a big cost bump, but it's an obvious one that I'm sure everyone wanted, but something Poots couldn't quite afford in the first go.

I'm also assuming that we'll get an extra set of dice in there.

A printed art folio would also be nice.

I'm also finding the male pinup reveals to be quite amusing, but in terms of value the stretch goals are a little underwhelming so far, but it's early days yet.

The hardback book I could do without, it just adds extra unnecessary weight to the parcel which means higher shipping costs.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
I'm also finding the male pinup reveals to be quite amusing, but in terms of value the stretch goals are a little underwhelming so far, but it's early days yet.

The hardback book I could do without, it just adds extra unnecessary weight to the parcel which means higher shipping costs.

I think at the weight the box will be anyway, the extra shipping will be pretty negligible.

I think he will retroactively reveal stuff spread out to keep interest.

Probably the pinups are thrown out as a jest to have a stretch goal, since their reveal and the swap from female to male are done in a humorous way.

That male pin-up would be a great Slaanesh hero.

Is it KS exclusive? Not backing a 200$ game *and* adding a 15$ single plastic mini

Still, that Phoenix...Is that available outside the core box? I really should've backed during thatlast KS.

Keep the interest going?




OK?

After all, it is only at $4.5M after a day and a half...

And more 'paper' goals announced too - hurrah?

I do love that Kicktraq's simple projection tool (which we all know is silly and not accurate) has this one heading towards $100M though - woo hoo!

So is the golden smoke knight in the core Monster 1.5, and by spending 250$, I will get him? Because this might be the straw to break the donkey's back, that is my self control over in spending money on miniatures

Nuts how much this has made already.

Totally missed the early bird and BF sales for this but currently working out the best pledge level. Would people with a good knowledge of Kingdom Death recommend the gamblers chest in addition to the basic game box?

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
So is the golden smoke knight in the core Monster 1.5, and by spending 250$, I will get him? Because this might be the straw to break the donkey's back, that is my self control over in spending money on miniatures

Yes.

 Pacific wrote:
Nuts how much this has made already.

Totally missed the early bird and BF sales for this but currently working out the best pledge level. Would people with a good knowledge of Kingdom Death recommend the gamblers chest in addition to the basic game box?

It will probably be worth it but we don't know the value until all of the stretch goals are unlocked.

Could he open up some more Black Friday pledges at a convenient time for us Europeans? :(
Edit:he did!

 Binabik15 wrote:
That male pin-up would be a great Slaanesh hero.

Is it KS exclusive? Not backing a 200$ game *and* adding a 15$ single plastic mini

Still, that Phoenix...Is that available outside the core box? I really should've backed during thatlast KS.

It's Kickstarter exclusive I think, but shouldn't you be able to pledge a minimal amount and then add the 15 dollars to get it as an add on? Or do you need to actually pledge for a reward to do add ons? I don't really know how Kickstarter works still haha.

250 gold lantern early bird opened! Gogogo