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Hi all. I'm starting a new marine army and I'm a bit confused as to which pauldron (if either) is the 'proper' one to have the legion emblem on it. I'm planning to do one shoulder studded and do legion emblem on the other so any feedback would be greatly appreciated.







Does it not matter? Do some marines put it on oneside, some on the other?

Post-heresy, Chapters which stick to the Codex Astartes would have the legion symbol on the left, and the squad type on the right. But there are a fair few that differentiate from this.

During the Heresy, before the Codex Astartes, it was pretty much whatever the Legion wanted - there was little standardisation across the Imperium at all, even in terms of Guard armament. Most Legions displayed their Legion logo somewhere, but it seems from the Betrayal book, that this could vary from squad to squad. Some legions, like the Alpha Legion, would sometimes have completely unadorned armour.

This isn't suprising when you consider that a Legion is thousands upon thousnads of warriors, all fighting for years and years far away from each other and using different armour marks, all with completely different studding, padding, pauldron styles, and where each Legion has completely different martial traditions with absolutely no standardisation other than 'be ready to fight'.

!

It is usually on the left in my experience but in the case of the MK 5 marines pictured in your post it would be on the right. Whether that is just a MK 5 thing, I don't know.

Usually it's the left with the squad type on the right, other than Deathwatch, which has the DW symbol on the left and the symbol of the parent Chapter of the marine on the right.

Really depends on what the the chapter / foundling legion felt like. Generally though Squad on right and chapter on left. There's always exceptions for particular squads, or characters or companies to do whichever they want though. Unless you are recreating a standard chapte, ie ultramarines, just think of any one of myriad of reasons someone may have done it differently and no one would blink twice.

Its always on the left (even in pre-heresy times, i've yet to find exception to this) UNLESS the Marine is in the Deathwatch or wearing (a full suit of) Mk V "Heresy" Armor (reason being that the left shoulder received the molecular bonding studs to reinforce it since it was the shoulder that would face towards the enemy s they advanced in firing stance).

chaos0xomega wrote:
Its always on the left (even in pre-heresy times, i've yet to find exception to this) UNLESS the Marine is in the Deathwatch or wearing (a full suit of) Mk V "Heresy" Armor (reason being that the left shoulder received the molecular bonding studs to reinforce it since it was the shoulder that would face towards the enemy s they advanced in firing stance).

Exceptions are on lots of the heresy-pattern armour mark pictures - including that Ultramarine in the OP. In Betrayal, the Emperor's Children are the only ones that stick to the left - the Sons of Horus, Death Guard and World Eaters switch randomly between the left, the right, both, or neither, depending on the individual marine. It doesn't seem particularly linked to armour mark either.

I read in one source (that I can't find at the moment) that it's on the left so it is facing the enemy when a marine is advancng and firing a bolter. To intimidate the foe of course!

In modern armours it is usually on the left, but as it has been said, it used to vary. However, the studded shoulder pads are almost always on the left side, so if you're going to use mostly those, it is probably better to have the chapter badge on the right side.

Yes, I intend to use studded shoulders on the majority of the models. And I am specifically going for guys at the moment of the HH.

The project is a team army, so it will include Sons of Horus, Emperors Children, Death Guard, and World Eaters. So I will keep that in mind when making the EC marines (probably wouldn't do any studs for them anyway since they should be more ornate).

I think what I'm going to do is do it squad by squad. The team army will have two squads per legion, so out of those I'll do one with studs left and one with studs right.

The oiginal fluff on the mk 6 armour, which was supposed to be the "new" mk during the heresy, was that the left shoulder was always studded as it was cheaper materials, leaving the better protection on the gun arm. It being difficult to get insignia on the left that left the right shoulder for all relevant markings (chapter, speciality [tactical, devastator, etc], squad and even weapon type)

I'm doing my preheresy marines' shoulder pads like this picture:

The bad thing about conflicting canon is that there is no "right" answer. For every example of X, there's usually a Y example to disprove it, so anyone that tells you "always" is flat out wrong...

The good thing about conflicting canon is that you can model your dudes any way you like.

I've been collecting since the late '80s so I tend to model my boys the way the original MK6 marines (my first dudes) were.... studded shoulder pads on left shoulder and smooth pad on the right. It's also how they were shown in Rogue Trader.

To me, the reverse looks backwards, but I'm not putting my time or $$ into your minis. You do whatever you like.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Usually it's the left with the squad type on the right, other than Deathwatch, which has the DW symbol on the left and the symbol of the parent Chapter of the marine on the right.

Fluff wise this would be unlikely as all codex chapters ( from where the vast majority of marines serving in the deathwatch come) have their chapter symbol on the left. Every tech marine always takes care not to offend his armours machine spirit by painting over his chapter symbol, I can't imagine the deathwatch emblem would be different so it should be on the right and the chapter badge should stay on the left to appease the machine spirit.

Ugly Green Trog wrote:
I can't imagine the deathwatch emblem would be different so it should be on the right and the chapter badge should stay on the left to appease the machine spirit.

Imagine it....
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Deathwatch#.URFsVKVEGQk

DW pads on left shoulder/ Chapter badge on right shoulder.

jifel wrote:I read in one source (that I can't find at the moment) that it's on the left so it is facing the enemy when a marine is advancng and firing a bolter. To intimidate the foe of course!

This sounds like a cool idea, actually. Thanks for the inspiration.
Simultaneously, the guys behind you will see "who" you are (squad marking) for easier identification.

The studded pauldron is supposed to provide increased protection, isn't it? If so, I could also see why that one replaces the Chapter pauldron on the left, given that this is the side probably most exposed to enemy fire.

Chronepsis wrote:The bad thing about conflicting canon is that there is no "right" answer. For every example of X, there's usually a Y example to disprove it, so anyone that tells you "always" is flat out wrong...
The good thing about conflicting canon is that you can model your dudes any way you like.

^ Also, this.

 Lynata wrote:

jifel wrote:I read in one source (that I can't find at the moment) that it's on the left so it is facing the enemy when a marine is advancng and firing a bolter. To intimidate the foe of course!

This sounds like a cool idea, actually. Thanks for the inspiration.
Simultaneously, the guys behind you will see "who" you are (squad marking) for easier identification.
.

That also makes me think that personal markins, following that theory, should be on the "back half" of the squad pauldron and not on the front.

The studded pauldron is supposed to provide increased protection, isn't it? If so, I could also see why that one replaces the Chapter pauldron on the left, given that this is the side probably most exposed to enemy fire.

I'd dare to say it's either the opposite or both are equally exposed to impact, for if you aim to the bulk mass, if you miss the chest you might hit the backwards shoulder. But it's just me bored at work being silly in front of a mirror xD

I'd say pick a shoulder and stick with it. There is certainly fluff that states the chapter/legion symbol is on the left; however, there are certainly plenty of examples by FW and GW where it is modeled on the right.

My guess is that a lot of the modellers at GW don't really know or simply haven't paid attention.

I've placed all of mine on the left shoulder in order to be consistent within my own army. I can't envision a situation in which a single force left such a thing up to the individual. After all the various markings aren't there for the enemy, they exist for the troopers in your own army to identify themselves and it saves time if everyone follows the same format.

The original White Dwarf article from 1990/1991 states that on mk6 armour the studded pad goes on the left as it is made from inferior materials and it is the right shoulder that needs to be better protected to allow the marine to continue firing. As marines are supposed to be totally ambidextrous this doesn't make too much sense. The article also states that it was only during and just post the heresy that the studded pad was actually made of inferior materials, but later production runs maintained the studs as a mark of respect for the final defence of Terra.

So tradition says the left pad is studded, but really I don't suppose it matters too much

 Chronepsis wrote:

Ugly Green Trog wrote:
I can't imagine the deathwatch emblem would be different so it should be on the right and the chapter badge should stay on the left to appease the machine spirit.

Imagine it....
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Deathwatch#.URFsVKVEGQk

DW pads on left shoulder/ Chapter badge on right shoulder.

I'm not disagreeing that deathwatch shoulder pads are on the right I'm just saying it contradicts the setting. Power armour has its own machine spirit and in the grimdark future even space marines balk at offending these spirits. Several bits of fluff state that armour spirits dislike having their colour changed or chapter badges removed, there is the techmarine lore as well as the passage in one of the night lords books ( Soul Hunter iirc) which describes Talos' armour spirit as a mongrel hateful creature due to the fact that it is comprised of many stolen pieces looted from the dead and repainted.

Consider that the Deathwatch emblem is a variant of the emblem of the Holy Orders of the Inquisition who are higher up the food chain than marine Chapters are, ie: closer to the God-Emperor. Ergo it trumps the Chapter badge in precedent of going 'to the front'

It would be a sacred honour to bear this emblem, any suit whose machine spirit was offended by such an honour would risk being consigned to the furnace of doom for its heresy.

Space Marine chapters, particularly first and second foundings, would argue that their iconography and heraldry was being borne across the galaxy, stomping on xenos and bringing the unruly into line before the inquisition dropped mewling and mucus covered from the womb. Most marine chapters don't consider themselves to be subject to inquisitorial command. I personally think that deathwatch emblems should be on the squad marking pad rather than the chapter pad.

Ugly Green Trog wrote:Most marine chapters don't consider themselves to be subject to inquisitorial command. I personally think that deathwatch emblems should be on the squad marking pad rather than the chapter pad.

In GW's fluff, the Inquisition owns the Deathwatch, so as SerQuintus suggested it would be entirely appropriate that it "overrides" the Chapter for the left side pauldron.

The confusion might arise from the fact that some non-GW sources have recently begun to present the Deathwatch as being independent from the Inquisition. If I were to follow the latter interpretation of the setting, I might actually be inclined to agree with the Deathwatch pauldron taking the right side - although the argument could still be made that, just like a Chapter is the combination of all the specialisations held by its members, the Deathwatch is the combination of all the Chapters which send members to serve in it.