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 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Oh yeah, that's much better. I think this new direction is growing on me.

I do have to note again that the stances feel a bit to samey. Will there be no more variation in poses?

yes, 3 variants of legs, 3 torso, 5 arms , 2 weapons, 8 heads in one pack,
each pack is 5 models.

now legs can be rotated ±90°
depending on torso/leg mix you will get more/less dynamic position
in general 720+ combinations for one model, like for skirmish should be ok ?

AND all of that for price of Jack Daniel's! ))



Soon painted version!

So when will we see some release dates/prices? Will those peices be resin or plastic or one of the new plastic/resin hybrids?

 c0un7_z3r0 wrote:
Looks good but why aren't they wearing armor?

Because they are these:



The original Chasseurs were dudes in tanktops with some headgear. These guys at least have visible dermal plating going for them (along with the headgear). Weren't you just complaining about how you were afraid they would throw old designs out? Or is that another c0un7_z3r0 I'm thinking of?

Either way, I think they are marked improvement on the the source material.

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:
AND all of that for price of Jack Daniel's! ))

Hmm, good thing I'm more of a Scotch man.

I can have my Cyber and drink Scotch too! (not sure how happy my wife will be about this)

 judgedoug wrote:

 c0un7_z3r0 wrote:
Looks good but why aren't they wearing armor?

Aren't they replacing these guys?

Spoiler:

http://shop.princeaugust.ie/warzone-mutant-chronicles-wargame/cybertronic-mega-corporation/tg9508pb-warzone-cybertronic-chasseurs-4-figures/

Dermal plates seems more armor than a wifebeater


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

yes, 3 variants of legs, 3 torso, 5 arms , 2 weapons, 8 heads in one pack,
each pack is 5 models.

AND all of that for price of Jack Daniel's! ))

$21.99 ?

that is about right ±1.99

Hmm, $4.80-ish per fig for proper multi-part plastic that one can actually pose? In a skirmish game? That's damn reasonable. Certainly cheap enough for me to pick up a new box or twelve.

Not really a fan of those. I always thought cybertonics basic soldiers would just look like tech advanced humans with a few bionics and advanced weaponry, these are just too much, and I hate the shirtless thing, it doesn't make sense to me.

$4.00 a piece, for 6 piece miniatures, that don't really appear to have much poability. I think I'll pass. That's more expensive than GW and is up there with forgeworld.And yes I understand you don't need as many, but to me a high detailed mini is a high detailed mini.

I'm going to guess the price is higher because these are resin or restic, not plastic.

...Or Catachan kevlar wifebeaters.

 Andrew1975 wrote:
Not really a fan of those. I always thought cybertonics basic soldiers would just look like tech advanced humans with a few bionics and advanced weaponry, these are just too much, and I hate the shirtless thing, it doesn't make sense to me.

another troll?

they are replacing this ones:

http://shop.princeaugust.ie/warzone-mutant-chronicles-wargame/cybertronic-mega-corporation/tg9508pb-warzone-cybertronic-chasseurs-4-figures/

... IP rights? Rings the bell?

If you've got a lot of bionics (generating heat) you might actually be better off shirtless

(or incorporating cooling fins)

 god.ra wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:
Not really a fan of those. I always thought cybertonics basic soldiers would just look like tech advanced humans with a few bionics and advanced weaponry, these are just too much, and I hate the shirtless thing, it doesn't make sense to me.

another troll?

they are replacing this ones:

http://shop.princeaugust.ie/warzone-mutant-chronicles-wargame/cybertronic-mega-corporation/tg9508pb-warzone-cybertronic-chasseurs-4-figures/

... IP rights? Rings the bell?

I'm not a troll. I hated those ones back in the day. There is no reason to hold onto an asthetic that is just not good. They can do whatever they want with the IP, this is one of the lines of miniatures that they should have changed. They look like WWF wrestlers, not soldiers. The old cybertonic shock troopers were much more in liine with how I like cybertronic to look. In the fluff the basic cybertronic soldiers were not supposed to be super augmented, augmented yes, cyborgs no, they were pretty much just basic soldiers.

 Ronin_eX wrote:
Love 'em! They remind me a lot of an updated version of the black & white interior art from Mutant Chronicles (the RPG). I do kind of miss the classic Cybertronic weapons a little, though they were a bit incongruous with the rest of the setting (looked like they were designed by Shirow Masamune actually). But the guys themselves are brilliant, a big improvement over the Mk1 Chasseurs/People's Volunteers. And the full view actually makes them look a lot sleeker as well. I could see them done up with a chromed armour look from classic cyber, it would be brilliant.

And I can see a lot of AdMech players wanting some to do Skitarii grunts.

Oddly, they also remind me of Syntha from Void/Urban War. But that shouldn't surprise me, considering who I-Kore descended from. Syntha did always feel like Cybertronic v2.0.

I do kind of miss the classic Cybertronic weapons

 Andrew1975 wrote:

I'm not a troll. I hated those ones back in the day. There is no reason to hold onto an asthetic that is just not good. They can do whatever they want with the IP, this is one of the lines of miniatures that they should have changed. They look like WWF wrestlers, not soldiers. The old cybertonic shock troopers were much more in liine with how I like cybertronic to look. In the fluff the basic cybertronic soldiers were not supposed to be super augmented, augmented yes, cyborgs no, they were pretty much just basic soldiers.

Yeah, I guess it may depend on which edition you like. 1st Edition Cybertronic described the basic Chasseur as heavily augmented and beyond human. The 2nd Edition book described the main-line troops as not having the best equipment (likely referring to the tier-1 People's Volunteers). Personally, not being a huge fan of 2nd Edition's background changes, I prefer the more heavily augmented look. I like Cybertronic being a super-elite force made up of the top picks from other corporations (living and dead). So I hope this is a sign that we will be seeing 1st Edition Cybertronic, myself.

 Andrew1975 wrote:
Not really a fan of those. I always thought cybertonics basic soldiers would just look like tech advanced humans with a few bionics and advanced weaponry, these are just too much, and I hate the shirtless thing, it doesn't make sense to me.

$4.00 a piece, for 6 piece miniatures, that don't really appear to have much poability. I think I'll pass. That's more expensive than GW and is up there with forgeworld.And yes I understand you don't need as many, but to me a high detailed mini is a high detailed mini.

I'm going to guess the price is higher because these are resin or restic, not plastic.

What's more expensive than GW or FW ???? $4 a miniature
Lets see:
My Squad of 10 DKK cost me £36 that is 56 usd... Work out math by your self.
And just to compare with GW I paid yesterday for 5 raptors £20 = 31 USD ....

Just go troll somewhere else.

 Ronin_eX wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:

I'm not a troll. I hated those ones back in the day. There is no reason to hold onto an asthetic that is just not good. They can do whatever they want with the IP, this is one of the lines of miniatures that they should have changed. They look like WWF wrestlers, not soldiers. The old cybertonic shock troopers were much more in liine with how I like cybertronic to look. In the fluff the basic cybertronic soldiers were not supposed to be super augmented, augmented yes, cyborgs no, they were pretty much just basic soldiers.

Yeah, I guess it may depend on which edition you like. 1st Edition Cybertronic described the basic Chasseur as heavily augmented and beyond human. The 2nd Edition book described the main-line troops as not having the best equipment (likely referring to the tier-1 People's Volunteers). Personally, not being a huge fan of 2nd Edition's background changes, I prefer the more heavily augmented look. I like Cybertronic being a super-elite force made up of the top picks from other corporations (living and dead). So I hope this is a sign that we will be seeing 1st Edition Cybertronic, myself.

I'm not sure which edition I'm thinking of either. I just know I always hated the shirtless guys and here they are again! I guess it doesn't matter, I was never a cybertronic man (might have been because of the minis) I liked Bauhaus and Capitol. To be honest I was always hoping they would come out with a soviet type faction Red Star.

What's more expensive than GW or FW ???? $4 a miniature
Lets see:
My Squad of 10 DKK cost me £36 that is 56 usd... Work out math by your self.
And just to compare with GW I paid yesterday for 5 raptors £20 = 31 USD ....

Just go troll somewhere else.

Man, you just love the troll word! DKK are not GW direct that's forgeworld! Sure you can pick raptors, how many pieces on each raptor, there are 116 pieces per box! I'll compare these to guard, pretty static 5 piece plastic models 10 for $29. Hell you get 10 dark eldar for $29 and those have lots of bits, and are pretty dynamic and I think GW prices are absurd! So yeah, $20 for 5 static minis is more expensive than GW.

Before the pure Prussia-fication of Bauhaus in 2nd Edition, there were a lot of Russian influences (alongside French and Italian) in Bauhaus.

And of course the Sons of Rasputin was also present (can't wait to see their update down the line).

No real need for a third faction with Russian influences so long as they bring back Bauhaus's pan-Euro flavour and tone down the be-monacled Prussian bad-guy quotient.

Just go troll somewhere else.

Economy of scale has a lot to do with pricing as well. Going to assume here that Warzone 3 will be more on the high-quality, boutique-miniature level side of design and distribution at first.

Assuming a level of success, maybe if they partner with WGF and do hard plastic sprues, we'll see War of Spanish Succession style pricing of 36 guys for $20.

 judgedoug wrote:

Assuming a level of success, maybe if they partner with WGF and do hard plastic sprues, we'll see War of Spanish Succession style pricing of 36 guys for $20.

Doubt it

Sci Fi dudes usually cost more than historical because of IP and stuff. Look at WGF shock troopers and the dreamforge guys.

Dont really see a problem with price. If you only need like 10-20 guys then you dont need much. Look at Mercs, sure it costs $50-60 for 6 guys but those 6 guys is all you need

Yeah, Warzone is and always has been a skirmish game. I used to play games of it with two 5-man squads and a character and they were a blast. Warzone was awesome because it scaled down really well. But games of 50+ dudes per side were really, really slow. So $20-24 for five guys is just fine for the size. Hell, the 2nd Edition box gave you way to many guys to actually play the game with (40 per side is some kind of mega battle). They are a bit lower on the scale than Games Workshop, close to par for Privateer Press (even a bit under in some cases) and the product they're giving out sounds to be pretty flexible.

A good-sized army can probably be had for less than $100 at those prices (at least under old systems). Price for a game-worthy army is always the important metric to me and if they can keep it to $40-50 for a starter and $100 for a good-sized force, then they are in the sweet spot in my eyes. And since Warzone tends to scale down well (something to do with individual model activation) you can probably get by learning the game on a couple $20 boxes.

I like some their themes a great deal - "tommy helmets" on capital in particular. I just hope they don't do the horrible scale things they seemed to have done in the past. And not making every figure a catachan with a different gun would help. I have enough roid rage figures at the moment. The zombies seem Ok though.

Oh I likey the new stuff already, new life to Warzone!

 god.ra wrote:


Just go troll somewhere else.

Man, you just love the troll word! DKK are not GW direct that's forgeworld! Sure you can pick raptors, how many pieces on each raptor, there are 116 pieces per box! I'll compare these to guard, pretty static 5 piece plastic models 10 for $29. Hell you get 10 dark eldar for $29 and those have lots of bits, and are pretty dynamic and I think GW prices are absurd! So yeah, $20 for 5 static minis is more expensive than GW.

You started with Forgeworld, how may of these cheap guardsman you'll need to play a game?

Old warzone was about 20 minis so lets assume 100 Usd to play nice 3-4 h skirmish game... And how much poits/value you'll get with GW for 100 USD???
Equivalent army in GW damaged my wallet for £200+ = 320 usd
Stop trolling.

 Andrew1975 wrote:
Basing the cost of figures by how many you need in a game, is ridiculous.

GW does that all the time and so do other companies, like PP. This is especially notable in case of special/elite choices in GW armies that cost significant more than core/troops despite usually having a negligible amount of extra materials used in the production process.

 Andrew1975 wrote:

Nothing I have seen so far justifies $4 a miniature.

Metal/Resin Miniatures?

As I said, look at Mercs. Sure some people call it ridiculous but I think game wise it is a fair price

Actually, how much you are likely to sell to someone should also be factored in to something's cost. If you can expect to sell a handful of a unit to each customer and are expecting a certain demand, then you set you price to make sure that you can turn a profit from those expectations. Manufacturing costs, development, material, and quality all factor in to it. But demands and the likelihood of moving a set amount of product also factor in to it.

This is why large-scale army games (like Mantic's stuff) tend to sell figures at ~$1 per figure, and why Infinity and other small skirmish charge $9-10 for each figure. It's why individual characters tend to get costed higher than a similarly made group of figures that you buy more of. If an army is going to be made up of 20-30 guys, then selling them at a buck a pop only works if you can either expect a lot of buyers (not happening for a start-up wargame), especially if you aren't expecting a lot of people to hop to new factions from the get go. It means that each customer ends up netting you $20-30 plus, maybe, a rulebook (which tend to have a much lower return). How many customers do you need to pay for all of that expensive plastic production? Probably quite a few at $30 a person, and even at $60 it may be a bit iffy.

But with, say, Dream Forge or Mantic, they are making stand-ins for games that may require someone to buy 100+ guys. So they will likely see orders large enough to break even sooner (that and they are a pre-established company).

For a new company, doing a small skirmish game and actually delivering plastic. $20 for 5 guys is not a horrible price. And who knows, maybe a Kickstarter can push the price down if they go that route. But S20 for 5 guys is not nearly GW prices, hell, it's barely Privateer Press prices. Again, not as huge an issue as you seem to be making it.

I remember doing the math when Excelsior had the WZ license (2003-2006) and their figures averaged to about $4.50 a figure. I forget if I was calculating that for Canadian or American, but I'm sure of that because I wrote a big piece on a blog about the actual costs of various miniatures games.

 Ronin_eX wrote:
Stuff I agree with.

As Ronin said price is not a clear cut thing as more than just the cost of creating the miniature is involved. I won't care about higher prices per miniature when compared with GW as long as two things are true with this revival 1)The new stuff connects with the original WZ. What totally killed FF game for me was the change in scale and the looks, when a Venusian Ranger doesn't look like a Venusian Ranger that's not WZ to me. 2) The skirmish side of the game. WZ was always about a couple squads and some heroes, 300 to 500 pts, if I wanted to play assault on San Dorado I can do that with 40K that deals with masses of troops better than WZ.

M.

 Andrew1975 wrote:
Nothing I have seen so far justifies $4 a miniature.

If you're going to compare costs, do not compare resin to injection molded plastic.

Games Workshop charges $20 for a finecast resin miniature. If these are $4 for resin miniatures, then they are indeed significantly cheaper than Games Workshop.

Economy of scale has a lot to do with pricing as well. Going to assume here that Warzone 3 will be more on the high-quality, boutique-miniature level side of design and distribution at first.

That might justify $4 miniatures, sure.

Sure many of the smaller skirmish games have miniatures that are worth a premium. They are very detailed and each one gets the love and care dedicated to a character model. Take MERCS or Infinity for example. Each miniature design is basically a one off work of art. These however have the look and feel of rank and file troops with pretty static poses and not a whole lot of variety, only subtle differences between the 5 in a box. So again I'm not seeing the justification of $4 a model here.

There are too many companies right now using state of the art technology to make great and affordable miniatures, I really think if the new warzone is going to survive they need to look at a better business model.

GW does that all the time and so do other companies, like PP. This is especially notable in case of special/elite choices in GW armies that cost significant more than core/troops despite usually having a negligible amount of extra materials used in the production process.

Are we really going to look at GW practices as the way companies should model themselves? PP is just as bad with their pricing.

If you're going to compare costs, do not compare resin to injection molded plastic.

Games Workshop charges $20 for a finecast resin miniature. If these are $4 for resin miniatures, then they are indeed significantly cheaper than Games Workshop.

Again just because GW finecast is stupid expensive, that does not justify anything. Mantic works in restic and doesn't charge nearly as much. I just got Sedition wars, and got some nice restic models for about $1 a piece.

I'm not a fan of resin or restic really. The technology is there to create detailed affordable, muliti part, multi pose plastic. Use it!

But with, say, Dream Forge or Mantic, they are making stand-ins for games that may require someone to buy 100+ guys. So they will likely see orders large enough to break even soone

Dreamforge and Mantic have or soon will have their own systems. People will use the stuff in other systems because its cost effective and looks good. If Warzone produces good mini at a good price people will do the same thing and use them in other systems, creating an additional market for the figures. Plus I would love to see the look of panic on GW face when people in mass start using ducal militia instead of guardsmen.....the ultimate sign that GW needs to rethink their practices.

I think its very short sighted and a bad strategy to hope that warzone alone sells enough botique miniatures. Make them so good that people want to use them in other systems. The market is there, exploit it, everyone else is. Plus it's free advertising!
"What are those miniatures your using for guard, they are pretty cool!"
"They are my Bauhaus Ducal Militia from Warzone, haven't you played that yet, it's awesome!" I've actually has this conversation a number of times.


If some guy, without a game system, basically running a company out of his garage can do this, then the warzone guys really need to look at this and decide if they really want to invest in their project. I can order a box of twenty for $33 from the warstore. I got 60 of them for $80 in the kickstarter.

The Spanish player community is very excited about this new project. We want to force your arrival and triumph.

Our community and forum Mutant Chronicles Spain (Mutant Chronicles España) is at your disposal for anything you need in our country.

welcome! For the Cardinal!

Talking about cost per figure, will there be a starter box? but looking at the designs it will be Cybertronic and Dark legion (i was hoping for Imperial!)