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I'm backing. Don't know which army to take though. Either Bauhaus or Brotherhood. Might add on some Cybertronic depending on what sort of add-ons become available.

 Ronin_eX wrote:
http://forum54.oli.us/index.php/topic,7152.msg57822.html#msg57822


Over on the Excelsior Games forums (and probably on Facebook). And looking over a bit more, it looks like Drachen has an Equalizer! How did they know that it was my favourite Bauhaus gun for all time?

But yeah, the Hussar's helmet isn't as flat as the head-on shot makes it look (protrudes out a bit for side-mounted vents). If you add a helmet-spike to it and change nothing else, then they look like Ducal Militia wearing 1st Edition Hussar helmets. And I'm glad to see that on Drachen they are keeping the concept of Special Forces specific Cresthelms with their own meanings (Templar eh? Interesting...).

Holy crap. I thought I was the only one that ever checked excelsior's site.

Yeah, still not a fan. I don't know if it's the posture or what of that sketch....no, pretty much hate everything about it. I never liked the hockey helmet Hussars. I really liked the 2nd ed Bauhaus esthetic. Really gas masky.

I mean this guy is bad ass!

Does anybody know if all the mega corporations vill show up evntually?

 c0un7_z3r0 wrote:
Does anybody know if all the mega corporations vill show up evntually?

I'm sure they will get to them Capitol is a kickstarter goal. I assume they will do Imperial and Mishima later.

Their website is down. Everybody probably hit it at once.

 kaiohx wrote:

Man, I hate this, but I think I'm going to have to skip this kickstarter and just find a set of rules post-release somewhere and use my old minis.

Umm. The rules in PDF are included in the £1 pledge level. That's pretty damn good value for the money. How much is a GW electronic book?

And how in the world is a £30 starter with 12 miniatures (two of which are either big or special characters), 75 cards, dice and rules more expensive than GW? £35 pound starter sets are right at the sweet spot for starters. Whether it's Infinity, Malifaux, Dystopian Wars, Warmachine/Hordes, Kings of War or Warpath, starter sets right around 30-35 pounds retail is right where things should be.

When people started talking about these being really expensive, I went back and looked at the numbers again and the price is around 14% off with free shipping in the UK, or if you're outside the UK, it works out to slightly more than retail after shipping. I think it'd be a good idea if they could get international shipping to be retail + free shipping. After all, they won't have to remit VAT on those sales, so that's 20% of the pledge available to cover shipping.

When you factor in that a full game is supposed to be in the 20-30 miniature range, so the starter gets you half way there, maybe more so depending on the points values of the special character or big model you get in there on top of the infantry.

This looks good to me! I can't really chip in right now, but I'll definitely be picking up the Dark Legion and Brotherhood starter sets as soon as I can. Best of luck with the Kickstarter!

A few things I did notice:

1) The video doesn't have any real content. This is where you want to put a real person in front of the camera (or at the very least narrating) and have them explain what the KS is all about and why people should pledge. The little trailer isn't good enough here.

2) The bonus stuff when stretch goals are hit don't create a sweet spot which provided momentum as people see it as such a good level to pledge as more things are added. If you announce some additional bonuses for Razide and higher at every Stretch goal that will encourage the selection of those reward levels and upgrading as the KS proceeds. I can't actually identify a sweet spot at all at this point.

3) Still no real painted miniature shots. This should have been done before the KS went live. You want to sell miniaturs? Show miniatures.

4) Length of 60 days. The more successful Kickstarters have been 30 day ones. Are you going to have enough real content to keep making meaningful updates for 60 days? And this is your KS, not a pre-KS teaser. Show real stuff and not little ovals with just the head of a miniature or just a gun and everything else greyed out. When you're at the point of getting funding from the end user, you should be showing them the real thing and not partial sneak peaks like the daily teasers you did before the KS went live.

5) Risks and Challenges is where you talk about the risks and challenges, not how good you are. Be honest here and actually talk about the risks and challenges rather than blowing smoke up people's butts about how reliable you are.

I'm sure there are other issues, but these are the ones that were obvious to me. Especially the poor video. Go watch the very first Reaper Kickstarter video and see what they included in their video.


http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1513061270/reaper-miniatures-bones-an-evolution-of-gaming-min

We have a stretched goal for ‘Kickstarter’ which will allow us to manufacture the ‘starter boxes’ in plastic. If we do not meet this the starter will be made (like the rest of the initial releases) in high grade resin.

Does this make sense to anyone?

So will you make new sculpts, resin and plastic require different kinds of sculpting, You can't just inject plastic into the same mold, even if the mold is now steel. When you design for plastic, I mean it can't be an after thought.

If you change to plastic which is much cheaper than resin, are you changing prices?

I guess I just don't see the point of the switch on material.

Also what is the deal with the cards, I see limited editions and things that look like booster packs as rewards. Is this going to have card collecting aspect where I have be hunting for cards and buying boosters and stuff? That would be a real deterrent.

Maybe they mean restic?

 agustin wrote:
or if you're outside the UK, it works out to slightly more than retail after shipping.

I'm not seeing pricing problems here at all. Especially when you factor in that a full game is supposed to be in the 20-30 miniature range, so the starter gets you half way there, maybe more so depending on the points values of the special character or big model you get in there on top of the infantry.

There's your pricing problem right there - assuming they want to sell this to people outside the UK...

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Maybe they mean restic?

Switching over to restic might be a bonus for them as its a cheaper material, but I don't see that as a bonus for the gamers unless it comes with a price decrease. Why would I pay the same for an inferior material?

This whole project seams a little......thrown together....or rushed.

I just hope I can add the figure case to the "Razide" level later on.

Andrew1975 wrote:

We have a stretched goal for ‘Kickstarter’ which will allow us to manufacture the ‘starter boxes’ in plastic. If we do not meet this the starter will be made (like the rest of the initial releases) in high grade resin.

Does this make sense to anyone?

Doesn't make sense to me either.

If you change to plastic which is much cheaper than resin, are you changing prices?

Very good question.

Also what is the deal with the cards, I see limited editions and things that look like booster packs as rewards. Is this going to have card collecting aspect where I have be hunting for cards and buying boosters and stuff? That would be a real deterrent.

That would be a 100% deal breaker for me.

Azazelx wrote:
There's your pricing problem right there - assuming they want to sell this to people outside the UK...

Perhaps they don't. Perhaps operating just inside the UK is all they can handle right now. Maybe outside of the UK will be handled by distributors and whatnot at a later date, so for now, you don't get any savings for pre-ordering. It seems a bit short sighted though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Steel Rabbit wrote:
I just hope I can add the figure case to the "Razide" level later on.

This should be an add on available now. They must know what KR is charging them to make the cases, so they should be able to offer it as an add on right now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Andrew1975 wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Maybe they mean restic?

Switching over to restic might be a bonus for them as its a cheaper material, but I don't see that as a bonus for the gamers unless it comes with a price decrease. Why would I pay the same for an inferior material?

This whole project seams a little......thrown together....or rushed.

They couldn't even be bothered to have some painted miniatures pictures ready to go for when the KS went live. Perhaps you are right.

I'm also not a fan of "restic" either. It's okay, but it better come with a price drop on the starter. So should styrene (hard plastic) if they manage to go that route.


.

O.o

What exactly is the KS for? Are we looking at funding for just those units, or the revamp of the whole game?

Have to admit they are a lot farther on then that other one, but there seem to be no figures in there, just the pretty pictures.

Any figure's done, yet that we can see?

That looks interesting, but seems like it's a little.... off.

 agustin wrote:
When people started talking about these being really expensive, I went back and looked at the numbers again and the price is around 14% off with free shipping in the UK, or if you're outside the UK, it works out to slightly more than retail after shipping. I think it'd be a good idea if they could get international shipping to be retail + free shipping. After all, they won't have to remit VAT on those sales, so that's 20% of the pledge available to cover shipping.

So, explain why someone outside the US would want to pay above retail when we can just wait a little while, especially if we don't care about Bauhaus. I play Brotherhood (already going in production and ready to go) and Mishima (not even on the block). Sorry, I'll wait till I can get 20% from Warstore or my LGS or something. And saying "Wooo, I get 14% off MSRP!!!" just makes you look ignorant. It is a arbitrary price set by the manufacturer, and in this case STILL on par with GW, which is insane in and of itself. Anyone who pays that is suffering from Stockholm Syndrome from so many years of paying GWs crazy prices.

You want a breakdown? Here you go:
GW - $37.25 for a set of 10 completely configurable tactical marines loaded with bits. It has enough bits that if you can find spare legs and maybe a few backpacks, you can make a ton of special characters or more troops.

Warzone KS - around $47 (at todays market). 10 single-pose minis (in several poses), a 'special' character, and a second character or a larger mini like a big power armor. Add $12 for shipping and we are up to almost $60. not sure where the 'deal' is.

Still no special extras like a KS exclusive mini, not even a sticker to say "I backed the WZ KS!". And the stretch goals.. the goals themselves are good. the rewards...man...where to begin on how silly those are. People ripped Wyrd in half for offering a pad of character sheets for TtB (hich in the end turned out to be a pretty sweet idea). These guys are gonna include a whole card for each goal. How generous.

So, tell me where this value is again? Maybe I've become a KS snob, but looking at the really successful ones, if your going to go the Kickstarter route, be prepared for it.

 Andrew1975 wrote:

 c0un7_z3r0 wrote:
Does anybody know if all the mega corporations vill show up evntually?

I'm sure they will get to them Capitol is a kickstarter goal. I assume they will do Imperial and Mishima later.

Their website is down. Everybody probably hit it at once.

It does seem so, they are talking about the five mega corporation and are mentioning unlocking 5th, 6th and 7th factions etc in the future, so I guess they are on their way as well!

 agustin wrote:
....you don't get any savings for pre-ordering.

I'd just like to point out that, despite how many KS projects are run, it isn't a system for pre-ordering.

Yeah, they need to sort out the video, post some actual photos, and clarify the plastic/resin query, but there's no reason why a small company who isn't being backed by CMON should offer big discounts on their product. Better to let it stand and die on its own merits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
EDIT: If the official site is down, just check through Kickstarter itself: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/513277403/mutant-chronicles-warzone-resurrection

 kaiohx wrote:

So, explain why someone outside the US would want to pay above retail when we can just wait a little while, especially if we don't care about Bauhaus.

There is literally no reason to unless you want them before they trickle through distribution. Like it said, they should have found a way to make it work at retail + free shipping for outside the UK.

I play Brotherhood (already going in production and ready to go) and Mishima (not even on the block). Sorry, I'll wait till I can get 20% from Warstore or my LGS or something. And saying "Wooo, I get 14% off MSRP!!!" just makes you look ignorant. It is a arbitrary price set by the manufacturer, and in this case STILL on par with GW, which is insane in and of itself. Anyone who pays that is suffering from Stockholm Syndrome from so many years of paying GWs crazy prices.

I think you might be ignorant of current prices of miniatures. Take a look at Infinity, Malifaux, WM/H, Spartan Games, etc., and the prices of their starters. 35 pounds is not out of line. And roughly 14% off UK MSRP is totally consistent with how UK internet retailers discount things. I think you're the one demonstrating ignorance here.

You want a breakdown? Here you go:
GW - $37.25 for a set of 10 completely configurable tactical marines loaded with bits. It has enough bits that if you can find spare legs and maybe a few backpacks, you can make a ton of special characters or more troops.

Warzone KS - around $47 (at todays market). 10 single-pose minis (in several poses), a 'special' character, and a second character or a larger mini like a big power armor. Add $12 for shipping and we are up to almost $60. not sure where the 'deal' is.

The miniatures are resin so it'd probably be better to compare them to 12 GW finecast miniatures made up of 10 troopers, 1 character and 1 larger model. GW in that case comes out to around $100 (and that's being very generous).

So, tell me where this value is again?

For people in the UK. That's about it. They should really change the shipping rates for outside the UK so they don't pay more than their MSRP.

But the actual pricing of the starters is just about right for miniature games these days. Especially when the starter makes up about half of a full army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cybogoblin wrote:

 agustin wrote:
....you don't get any savings for pre-ordering.

I'd just like to point out that, despite how many KS projects are run, it isn't a system for pre-ordering.

Yeah, they need to sort out the video, post some actual photos, and clarify the plastic/resin query, but there's no reason why a small company who isn't being backed by CMON should offer big discounts on their product. Better to let it stand and die on its own merits.

I actually agree. People have come to expect discounts whenever they buy things in advance and Kickstarters like the CMON ones, Reaper and Mantic's have cemented this impression.

There should be some sort of incentive for pledging though. Free shipping to your door is probably a good place to start. As it stand, I'll pay extra for pledging over waiting. I'm encouraged to wait by the prospect of paying more if I get in early.

I work at a games shop, so I can definitely wait for these figs to hit the shelves, but I really want these guys to know I'm out there, and I'm willing to support one of my favorite games.

Call me a moron, but there's my reason. I'm also employed, and can afford this (especially with some responsible planning, and an adherence to my hobby budget (something every gamer/hobbyest should have)).

 cybogoblin wrote:

 agustin wrote:
....you don't get any savings for pre-ordering.

I'd just like to point out that, despite how many KS projects are run, it isn't a system for pre-ordering.

This one pretty clearly is. Note the "everything will be at retail regardless in July" and "you can pre-order from our website as soon as the Kickstarter finishes." comments.

Really hoping that cards are not collectible or i stick with my old Ultimate Warzone for some game resurrection..

 agustin wrote:

I think you might be ignorant of current prices of miniatures. Take a look at Infinity, Malifaux, WM/H, Spartan Games, etc., and the prices of their starters. 35 pounds is not out of line. And roughly 14% off UK MSRP is totally consistent with how UK internet retailers discount things. I think you're the one demonstrating ignorance here.

Actually, if your paying 35 pounds for a Malifaux starter, YOUR the one getting ripped off. The new plastic crews are $35US typically, so that's what, 22 pounds? And again, retail is for suckers.

Its a shame this project is so UK-centric. So limiting, but hey, what can you do? At least it's making a return of sorts.

Vain wrote:Loving the look of the Bauhaus, but can't really tell if they are male or female...



Can I get confirmation on if they are:

1) All Male with Female hero
2) All Female with Female hero
3) Gender Neutral with Female hero

This is probably where I will be jumping in but would love to have them be Lady Storm Troops over regular Male, but the previous incarnations seem to have them all male except for heros.

It would be cool with a mix and if you got un-helmeted heads that were both male an female! The bodies could stay the same, you can hardly tell the difference between men and women with full battle gear anyway.

Ronin_eX wrote:There is a more detailed view of the Hussars (the only ones I was leery about) concept art and from a side profile, the helmets are a pretty good update of the 1st-edition Hussar. They are basically just missing helmet spikes (possibly a head option once they start playing with renders). I like the shoulder-pads. They still smack of Bauhaus but aren't jutting out three feet to either side of the model. It seems like the Hussar is going back to being the bog-standard low-level infantry they were in 1st Edition (they were closer to the Ducal Militia, in those days, for anyone more familiar with 2nd Edition and Ultimate). But I think showing of the side-view of the helmet and giving it the depth really helps on these guys.

Again, these are closer in concept to the 1st Edition "hockey-mask" Bauhaus than the 2nd Edition versions. After seeing multiple angles, I am actually starting to like them quite a bit.

And I also like the weapon re-designs.

But to each their own, I have a feeling that these are pretty early concepts, so what we end up with may well be quite different. But getting the close-up of the Hussar, it still screams BAUHAUS to me, albeit a modernized take on them.

And besides all of that:

A lightly-armoured female character not showing off any cleavage? Deliver her in a non-T&A pose and you will be heroes. She looks like a stone-cold bad ass.

I really agree with this! I never really liked any hussar mini though but these are awesome! It really helps seeing them in more angels though. And I totally agree about the female hero, she is really bad ass!

I know someone already posted this but here are more angels: http://forum54.oli.us/index.php/topic,7152.msg57822.html#msg57822

 kaiohx wrote:

Actually, if your paying 35 pounds for a Malifaux starter, YOUR the one getting ripped off. The new plastic crews are $35US typically, so that's what, 22 pounds? And again, retail is for suckers.

Mallfaux starters are cheaper. I had the impression of paying around $50 for mine, but that was with the mini rulebook and local taxes. But there was only like 5 miniatures in there and I don't remember any rules in there, only stat cards, so I still fail to see the problem with the pricing of these Warzone starters. 12 miniatures, with a full deck of cards and rules, £35 (which is about $55). So the price is right in line with other options in the market right now.

And if someone has a local store where they play and meet other gamers, they are certainly not being suckers by buying there.

Well, I guess the market will decide.

Looking at the Cybertronic renders on Kickstarter, I've spotted a really basic flaw - one that should hopefully be easily corrected before going to production.

Look at the tabs for the heads, torsos, legs. Square. Change those to round/domes and you immediately introduce a lot more flexibility in the kits to all users (not just those of us who will hack them off) while maintaining the strength of the joins (which we-who-will-hack-them-off) will lose.

Id like to back the project but the more I read into it the less sure I am. The Kickstarter page just isn't very specific, eg. I really wonder whether "plastic" means styrene, and whether pricing will be affected or not. Is the game going to be sold long-term in retail all around the world, or is this just a short-termed UK specific thing? I guess I'm not the only one who remembers the fate of previous Warzone incarnations...

Getting unsure about design as well. Its strange to see Alakhai look exactly like he did 15 years ago and yet Bauhaus Hussars are more like Half-Life 2 Combine mooks now. Hopefully the models will have options to give them more actual Mutant Chronicles identity (eg. kneepads, gas-mask or spiked helmet options).

Prices aren't too bad i think, nothing really different from the similar Relic Knight considering only the pledge level. CMON kickstarter however had many more interesting stretch goals which increased the value of the pledge.
They really need to explain the card mecanics, as you see you get extra cards with the troop boxes, what are these? Equipment for that unit? are they fixed or random???

So, now I'm a backer! I hope we unlock Capitol or even better Imperial! As for prices, I believe they are fair.

This whole thing looks even cheaper than Excelsior's attempt at bringing back Warzone, and we all know how that ended... Needless to say, any excitement I had for this has been put out of its misery. I'll be sticking to second-hand 1st/2nd edition minis to get my Warzone fix.

BTW, to the KS creator - please, for the love of God, PROOFREAD your content before submitting it, because the entire page is plagued with mistakes (Mortyficator, fraction, just to point out a couple). Moreover, make your list of stretch goals more readable, I had to zoom in to make out what it said.

 Steel Rabbit wrote:
I can definitely wait for these figs to hit the shelves, but I really want these guys to know I'm out there, and I'm willing to support one of my favorite games.

Call me a moron, but there's my reason. I'm also employed, and can afford this (especially with some responsible planning, and an adherence to my hobby budget (something every gamer/hobbyest should have)).

Ditto!

I am not employed, but I can afford it, because this year GW will see zero money from me. If the guys behind WZ do not mess up, they will see my whole hobby budget allocated to their products.

Saying that (and having already pledged at Necromutant level), I would also like to hear what Prodos Games has to say about a potential price decrease when/if they change the material of the starters from resin to plastic.

Also, what about the cards? Will they be collectible? I hope not.