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 agustin wrote:

I absolutely want to see this project succeed. ...

I think a lot of the Kickstarter specific criticism has been super constructive. As in that addressing real issues can help bring in more pledges from people who might be sitting on the fence.

My favorite thing about this new Warzone is that it is happening.

I am totally with Augustin on this one.
IMO the overall tone of this topic is friendly and constructive. Most really want WZ to succeed!

Let us keep it that way.
So Prodos: Jjust give us more info and a lot of the above discussions would not even arise (e.g "What are the cards doing?")

 Azazelx wrote:
I'm personally quite disappointed in the fact that it's a KS, and moreso that it's a low-value KS (no savings from RRP - so why bother?) I'll follow this thread and reply to commentary from time to time, but my excitement in the re-release has pretty much been squashed - at least until it hits retail, when I'll probably buy a few things rather than going big on the KS. Though I'm now much more likely to dig out my old figures and 1st Edition rulebook for some skirmish fun at home with friends, so that's something at least.

Not to pick on you specifically, but mainly to everyone who's like "I HATE THIS IT'S A KICKSTARTER WAAHHH", they've gone out of their way to appease the anti-Ks crowd and to point out that you don't need to participate in the KS, and can still just buy whatever you want when the release date hits:

"We understand some people are not keen on the concept of ‘Kickstarter’ and as such wanted to explain a couple of things.
1. We intend for all products we have developed so far for the first 3 factions to be available in June 2013. The Kickstarter project (its success or failure) will not affect these plans.
2. We have a stretched goal for ‘Kickstarter’ which will allow us to manufacture the ‘starter boxes’ in plastic. If we do not meet this the starter will be made (like the rest of the initial releases) in high grade resin.
If you do not wish to support a Kickstarter project, but still want a Warzone Resurrection force (or two), you will be able to pre-order them from our website (warzonegame.com), after the Kickstarter, to receive in June. Or you can order them for near-immediate delivery after the release date from the same site. "

The initial concept designs for Bauhaus are a let down. The Hussars might turn up to be fine with some tweaks (currently they look like extras from a low cost Sci Fi movie, very dull and losing part of the strong charisma the old concepts have), but the Vulkan...

That's a Vulkan:



or this



but not a dude in a cosplay costume made of cardboards!
Seriously, the Vulkan should be reworked from start. It's meant to be a 55 mm battlesuit!

I always thought the roll cage vulcan was kind of silly looking, but I think the second one is pretty cool. The concept art looks more like the second one but with everything squared off and slimmed down. And the forearms sort of have a modular look to them.

I'm looking forward to seeing a render (or better yet a miniature) before I decide if I like it or not. The Bauhaus concept art is simply not enough to go on.

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:
Before I answer your questions I feel that I need to explain something:
Why cards, to open up unlimited spectrum of strategies, tactics and combos in game…

Have 3 types of cards in game, Strategy, Global Strategy and Gear.
Strategy cards can affect your quads characteristic/ change type of weapon (issue different ammo type, or change type of your squad armour) for one Game Round (can be negated by enemy), also they can affect the game mechanic a bit (again in balanced way).

Global strategy, these cards can affect battlefield (for instance you can drop “Fog bomb” which is reducing all range of weapons by ½) or you can boos cover save, or remove cover save or create cover in open terrain ect…. For one Round (can be negated by enemy..

Gear Card, these are basically upgrades to your squad, mainly affecting weapons but also can give squad special abilities (for instance “medic packs” can give your squad Heal Roll – negates effect on Wound, on (1-4 on D20) - 20%) these cards stay with squad until is negated by enemy.

Every card has its value so you have to buy strategy, nnd how? You have Res points (resources), you start game with X number of Res Cards (depending on class of your hero), then every round you can add one from your hand.

Answer to your question is No, but we will make special pack (different drawing only) for peoples who would like to have a “special” issued cards (for example kickstarter ones)

For us, most important is game balance, and having “Rare Cards” won’t help!

Regarding plastic, yes we you will get lost of free stuff once we hit “plastic stretch goal”. 

The movie with game play will be up this weekend!

I love all of this stuff. Sounds great. I love you guys.
You have my support.

I do have to admit that I like the concept art for Angelika. It'd be nice to see the mini look like that.

Dear oh dear,

Why do people keep screaming for 'freebies' and 'value' right at the start of a KS

Yes projects like Bones and Sedition Wars (& other CMON projects) had great value at the END, but this was slowly built up via many, many stretch goals

give this a chance to fund, then set some stretch targets before you ask for 'better than retail'

If towards the end of the project they have overfunded massively and the value still isn't there thens the time to complain

and to those in the US wanting free international shipping.... welcome to the world of KS we in the rest of the world have to work with (and you won't even end up with the import taxes/VAT we in Europe have to pay when we back US projects)

Well if those current Bauhaus regulars get the option for a separate head that is more retro then i am all for it and yes the Vulcan need some fattening

Well, UK prices do include 20% VAT and when you don't have to remit that to the government that goes a long way to subsidize shipping. The reverse isn't true for US projects. And if Prodos is not VAT registered, they really should talk to an accountant about how revenue from Kickstarter will be seen by the tax office.

also please don't forget we are working under license, therefore some revenue from Mutant Chronicles is going back to Paradox, but we will give away as much as possible on Kickstarter

Thanks for understanding

I will say that so far Prodos has been responsive to constructive criticism so there is room for improvement for Bauhaus. I also find the battlesuits lacking but Prodos already said it was just a concept drawing.

M.

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:
also please don't forget we are working under license, therefore some revenue from Mutant Chronicles is going back to Paradox, but we will give away as much as possible on Kickstarter

Thanks for understanding

This actually makes a lot of sense. I must admit I totally forgot about this aspect. Margins are always tighter on licensed products.

There's no point in running a Kickstarter and ending off not having anything left after fulfillment.

I'd like to see this succeed. This is one of the few kickstarters recently I'm actually in to even if it is in funny money

I'll probably be backing for the Cartel level if this gets to plastics. If not then the basic level with a couple of troop boxes added on.

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:
Before I answer your questions I feel that I need to explain something:
Why cards, to open up unlimited spectrum of strategies, tactics and combos in game…

Have 3 types of cards in game, Strategy, Global Strategy and Gear.
Strategy cards can affect your quads characteristic/ change type of weapon (issue different ammo type, or change type of your squad armour) for one Game Round (can be negated by enemy), also they can affect the game mechanic a bit (again in balanced way).

Global strategy, these cards can affect battlefield (for instance you can drop “Fog bomb” which is reducing all range of weapons by ½) or you can boos cover save, or remove cover save or create cover in open terrain ect…. For one Round (can be negated by enemy..

Gear Card, these are basically upgrades to your squad, mainly affecting weapons but also can give squad special abilities (for instance “medic packs” can give your squad Heal Roll – negates effect on Wound, on (1-4 on D20) - 20%) these cards stay with squad until is negated by enemy.

Every card has its value so you have to buy strategy, nnd how? You have Res points (resources), you start game with X number of Res Cards (depending on class of your hero), then every round you can add one from your hand.

Answer to your question is No, but we will make special pack (different drawing only) for peoples who would like to have a “special” issued cards (for example kickstarter ones)

For us, most important is game balance, and having “Rare Cards” won’t help!

Regarding plastic, yes we you will get lost of free stuff once we hit “plastic stretch goal”. 

The movie with game play will be up this weekend!

Many many thanks! And there are indeed many the reasons to thank you:

1) You are bringing back WZ!
2) You are doing it in a way that is exciting indeed.
3) For what you just said about the cards. I LOVE the way this new system sounds.
4) For providing answers, keeping us updated and being responsive to our feedback. I hope you will continue conducting your business like this, because I think that a customer-open company is what this hobby really needs. I from my side have already pledged my loyalty to you, if not for your promising product, definitely for your business ethos.

Sirs, you had our attention. Now, you have our wallets. Keep it on!!!!

P.S.: Did I read Chronopia? Oh my, oh my!

 -DE- wrote:
This whole thing looks even cheaper than Excelsior's attempt at bringing back Warzone, and we all know how that ended... Needless to say, any excitement I had for this has been put out of its misery. I'll be sticking to second-hand 1st/2nd edition minis to get my Warzone fix.

BTW, to the KS creator - please, for the love of God, PROOFREAD your content before submitting it, because the entire page is plagued with mistakes (Mortyficator, fraction, just to point out a couple). Moreover, make your list of stretch goals more readable, I had to zoom in to make out what it said.

I was initially a bit excited due to some of the preview pics but the chosen factions (except for Bauhaus) pretty much coincide with my least favorite ones in the old game as I preferred the corporate nation-state wars more than the demons-vs-space church side of the game. Add to that very lackluster "deals" on the kickstarter that don't even equal the discount you'd get from your average internet retailer and you've just got a very risky preorder. I'll just wait and see what the other factions end up looking like and possibly buy them when they're released and there is no risk.

I'm not sure if it's possible to be old fashioned with Kickstarters but I see them as a vehicle for the company to generate good will, excitement, and an instant community for the release of the product in return for customers basically getting discounts roughly between what a store and distributor would pay. Most of the successful tabletop gaming kickstarters seem to have the company NOT sell at a loss but rather to the end consumer at the same price they'd normally pay to the middlemen. Both sides win. I see no benefit for US customers to order through this 60 day preorder period with its inherent risks (international transaction, preorder with a new unknown company, etc) rather than simply buying the same things for the same price or even less with ZERO risk from well known retailers that will have the items in stock.

 unitstrogg wrote:
Vulkans should be more like this!:
http://oi45.tinypic.com/2w50cvo.jpg

While I agree that your stretched out version looks better, you run into the same problems with it as space marines in power armor do. They're going for realistic proportions and no realistic human could fit in that with any mobility in the arms and legs. The suit isn't large enough for a cockpit with controls like in Heavy Gear but is rather worn with arms going into arms, legs going into legs. If a human tried that with they stretched suit, he'd end up being a steroid superfreak space marine build (which is fine for 40k but not this).

phil751 wrote:
Usual waves of negativity from the very vocal minority of the dakka community i see . GOA pulled so i guess this is the new target. Just waiting for valera to join in with his normal cynicism guess hes still laughing about the demise of the GOA kickstarter. I swear if a company came up with awesome ruleset stunning models made in metal/plastic/resin (of course whichever material would be wrong ) and were giving it away gratis there would still be a bunch of people here ready to kick it in the teeth
seriously is this section of the community actually into wargames at all.

Welcome to dakka. I'm glad you can apparently make such sweeping declarations in your first day on your first post as an expert. If I were a cynic, I'd be thinking the words puppet and sock in no particular order. People are voicing valid criticisms that you are free to address but seem to be ignoring in favor of criticizing the community.

Ok, the explanation on the cards was really necessary now i think i can pledge for this game. I repeat that the cost dosen't seem too high for me, at least for the first half of the pledge levels.

Okay, that original Vulcan design is really dorky looking. I'm sorry, but the new one is much better looking. It at least looks like plausible military hardware. It seems to be channeling a bit of the Studio Nue Starship Troopers power armor design.

And this is my first UK KS. Am I supposed to add the shipping cost to my pledge total in the pledge manager?

 Steel Rabbit wrote:
Awesome news! The only two factions I don't own for Warzone are the Brotherhood and the Dark Legion so I'll definitely spring for the two starter pledge once I get home.

For those of you who are worried about the price of the Kickstarter minis vs. what they'd be in stores: don't forget that the higher the pledges get the more stuff gets added in. THAT'S where tabletop games on Kickstarter get into the "good deal" territory.

Well, for the time being, nearly every tier is roughly equal as a cost proposition.

 warboss wrote:
If I were a cynic, I'd be thinking the words puppet and sock in no particular order.

He could be a lurker. Then again, even with how outspoken Dakka can be today, it has nothing on Ye Olden Days. Back then one could etch steel with the acid and vitriol extracted from some of the threads.

 Barzam wrote:
And this is my first UK KS. Am I supposed to add the shipping cost to my pledge total in the pledge manager?

It did it automatically for me when I placed my pledge.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 warboss wrote:
If I were a cynic, I'd be thinking the words puppet and sock in no particular order.

He could be a lurker. Then again, even with how outspoken Dakka can be today, it has nothing on Ye Olden Days. Back then one could etch steel with the acid and vitriol extracted from some of the threads.

 Barzam wrote:
And this is my first UK KS. Am I supposed to add the shipping cost to my pledge total in the pledge manager?

It did it automatically for me when I placed my pledge.

By the way, do you have any news about your Attila design? Does Prodos plan to adopt your take on the mini?

I'll probably hold off until we get closer to seeing the Capitol or Imperial stuff, as those were 2 of the 3 factions that I played, with Bauhaus being the 3rd.

Not terribly impressed with the Bauhaus concept-art so far, but I'll reserve final judgement until we see a render or two.


Pardon me, if this has already been answered, but when you say "plastic" are we referring to injection-molded plastic? Or are we referring to "plastic-resin", such as what Mantic has used?

Or possibly spun-cast like Trollforged.

I just realised that AGAIN you have to have a Facebook account to go to the KS linked design forum!

Why so?
I honestly do not see much use in joining Facebook - and I presume I am not the only one - so why prohibit possible customers?

Well, I'm a little bit disappointed by the lack of Imperials (and here I am making a cosplay and everything! jeez! ). HOWEVER I really hope this is successful, since that'll mean you can get in the other Mega Corps later. And at the rate its going I'm more than certain you'll get there.

I'm going to wait until that point myself. Good luck Prodos Games!

Never played or owned any minis from the original war zone but definately feel the new art direction is a change for the better even if it isn't quite there yet. Definately peaking my interest.

 CorpBoltman wrote:
Well, I'm a little bit disappointed by the lack of Imperials (and here I am making a cosplay and everything! jeez! ). HOWEVER I really hope this is successful, since that'll mean you can get in the other Mega Corps later. And at the rate its going I'm more than certain you'll get there.

I'm going to wait until that point myself. Good luck Prodos Games!

Well Capitol is 80k so maybe Imperial at 160k? I'm thinking this KS is more like a Mantic one where the game is coming out anyway, but KS will improve the components and also help fund the planned releases much, much sooner.

I am going to hold of investing anything until I see the lay of the land after a good few weeks have passed. As it is nothing really interests me in the KS.

In at the Razide level, can't wait to see how high this climbs (I will be hovering around Kicktraq until April). It's already at 56% of the goal and it hasn't been 24 hours yet.

I actually love the sound of the cards. But I'm a 2nd Edition 40k lover, so tactile stuff always gets my vote. Just so long as the rules on the cards are referenced elsewhere (I like them as quick reference, not the only reference; that is something 40k got really, really wrong in 2nd Edition). I also feel like this will see a return of the the big army-wide special rules from 1st Edition (I loved screaming "THE MOMENT HAS COME!" before seizing initiative for a turn). Either way, going with cards as a quick reference tool is a great idea. I wonder if double-blind deployment is making a return, one of Excelsior's best additions to Warzone.

I'm glad to hear that you'll be using some kind of algorithm/rubric to price out minis. That should be tweakable enough to allow for easy adjustment throughout the process and it can hopefully reach the level of balance (or hopefully even exceed) that Ultimate Warzone managed (but, you know, without dying after ).

Either way I'm down for a Cybertronic starter and the eventual Bauhaus starter. I'll probably be adding a squad of Venusian Rangers in if we make it to that stretch goal.

Good luck to Prodos.

Welcome to dakka. I'm glad you can apparently make such sweeping declarations in your first day on your first post as an expert. If I were a cynic, I'd be thinking the words puppet and sock in no particular order. People are voicing valid criticisms that you are free to address but seem to be ignoring in favor of criticizing the community.

@warboss

Well it couldn't be that I have browsed dakka for years just never registered until today as had perhaps recently been following the GOA kickstarter and now mutant chronicles and maybe perhaps , having become a little tired of the naysaying of certain members of the community , not the entire community decided I'd register and add some of my own ' constructive criticism ' of the criticisers.

Just pledged at the Razide level, quite impressive that the Kickstarter is already over £20k. Looking forward to more information over the coming days. Definitely liking the sound of the cards to add a sort of fog of war to the game.