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Cergorach wrote:
Plastic vs. resin/metal:
Bones is PVC cast in metal molds, quite expensive.
quote]





Um, are you saying the molds or the material is what is expensive, because the average cost of a Bones mold was $15000 with the most expensive being $45000. And the material is the cheapest you can find, even Reaper's metal models that were $5 when recast in Bones are now $2. No joke go check it out, over at the Reaper forums ReaperBrian has a whole discussion about it.

pledged at the Razide level, may be increased once we hit a few stretch goals. Quite impressed by the brotherhood and legion minis.

 praetor24 wrote:
The first Vulkan WIPs renders

I feel the strange urge to photoshop that into the Angelina Jolie leg meme from the Oscars last year!

 warboss wrote:

 praetor24 wrote:
The first Vulkan WIPs renders

I feel the strange urge to photoshop that into the Angelina Jolie leg meme from the Oscars last year!

Just do it!

xraytango wrote:

Um, are you saying the molds or the material is what is expensive, because the average cost of a Bones mold was $15000 with the most expensive being $45000. And the material is the cheapest you can find, even Reaper's metal models that were $5 when recast in Bones are now $2. No joke go check it out, over at the Reaper forums ReaperBrian has a whole discussion about it.

The molds of course, the average cost of a regular rubber production mold is less then $150 and it fits a slew of minis. The PVC is quite cheap and the production speed is far higher, not to mention that the mold doesn't need to be replaced after a few hundred casts. So initially quite expensive (compared to traditional metal/resin casting) but it quickly turns out cheaper after you've cast/sold enough. But also the machines that run the molds for PVC/plastic are quite expensive, far more so then regular spincasting equipment.

 praetor24 wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 praetor24 wrote:
The first Vulkan WIPs renders

I feel the strange urge to photoshop that into the Angelina Jolie leg meme from the Oscars last year!

Just do it!

It would be strangely appropriate seeing as how one of her earlier (crappy) movies was a Cyborg sequel IIRC.

 kenshin620 wrote:
Warzone just surpassed Empire of the Dead

Wonder if it'll catch up to WWX?

God... I hope so. What a droll looking game. Their sole mechanical innovation is virtually lifted from Helldorado, and the rest seems to be utterly paint-by-numbers, vanilla, table-top-wargaming. Stick to making expensive foam-lined backpacks Romeo and Co.

Closing in on the next stretch goal. I decided to preemptively up my pledge to score a couple of V-Ranger boxes. Chug on you crazy machine of nostalgia!

Are there going to be any gameplay videos? I'd definitely like to see some.

There is already one in a Kickstarter update regarding the use of cards. More will probably be posted soon. And apparently anyone kicking in will get access to the beta-test rules pretty shortly. So we'll all get to see for ourselves as well.

At some point, a message was circulated saying that the basic rules are going to be send soon to all pledgers. Do we have any clue about when this "soon" is? I mean, has Prodos made an announcement that I have missed?

Whoops, ignore.

The Laughing Man wrote:
Are there going to be any gameplay videos? I'd definitely like to see some.

Yes, Monday 25th lol not 28th, 1st Vid from game play, with Beta rules available to download

"UPDATE: A big thank you to everyone that has contributed so far. We are doing well. Various people have asked for PDF Basic Rules for all pledge levels....it's yours! PDF BASIC RULES WILL BE SEND TO ALL PLEDGERS"

That is awesome! But Monday is the 25th.

But time can start getting wonky when Kickstarters are involved. Especially when you're running 'em.

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

The Laughing Man wrote:
Are there going to be any gameplay videos? I'd definitely like to see some.

Yes, Monday 28th, 1st Vid from game play, with Beta rules available to download

"UPDATE: A big thank you to everyone that has contributed so far. We are doing well. Various people have asked for PDF Basic Rules for all pledge levels....it's yours! PDF BASIC RULES WILL BE SEND TO ALL PLEDGERS"

My opinion is that you should be hitting us with updates before we hit the stretch goals. The other way around does not work well, since you spend much more easily money, if you know beforehand what you 're going to get. And by updates I mean renders, not just concept art. And if possible, upon hitting the goal getting some sprues/actual models views.

I don't mean to complain, but if you have a look at the other more successful KS', they had ready models pics or renders at least for the first couple of their stretch goals. I know that this campaign is a marathon, but part of its success will lie on the continuous engagement of early pledgers like myself.

Another thing that I would be curious to know is what kind of plastic do you intend to use, if you reach the 70k, e.g. I have seen Mantic's plastic models and I am appalled by their quality.

 praetor24 wrote:
Another thing that I would be curious to know is what kind of plastic do you intend to use, if you reach the 70k, e.g. I have seen Mantic's plastic models and I am appalled by their quality.

Yes, we all would like to know this sooner rather than later. It's of particular interest to me, allergic to super glue as I am, I'd rather spend as little time using it as possible...

not sure if it was mentioned but how much are the boxes going to be for the next units? i could probably just up my pledge now

 praetor24 wrote:

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

The Laughing Man wrote:
Are there going to be any gameplay videos? I'd definitely like to see some.

Yes, Monday 28th, 1st Vid from game play, with Beta rules available to download

"UPDATE: A big thank you to everyone that has contributed so far. We are doing well. Various people have asked for PDF Basic Rules for all pledge levels....it's yours! PDF BASIC RULES WILL BE SEND TO ALL PLEDGERS"

My opinion is that you should be hitting us with updates before we hit the stretch goals. The other way around does not work well, since you spend much more easily money, if you know beforehand what you 're going to get. And by updates I mean renders, not just concept art. And if possible, upon hitting the goal getting some sprues/actual models views.

I don't mean to complain, but if you have a look at the other more successful KS', they had ready models pics or renders at least for the first couple of their stretch goals. I know that this campaign is a marathon, but part of its success will lie on the continuous engagement of early pledgers like myself.

Another thing that I would be curious to know is what kind of plastic do you intend to use, if you reach the 70k, e.g. I have seen Mantic's plastic models and I am appalled by their quality.

like for instance :






well, that is why we are doing kickstarter, we don't want to over-invest as the Course of Warzone might hit us!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/kings-of-war was only based (I mean stretch goals) on Concepts, difference is that once we hit the stretch goal we start to work on the stuff for you and you can see the progress.
Also , by end of our kickstarter you'll see all concepts turned into real models + painted! so WYSIWYG






Automatically Appended Next Post:

cerealkiller195 wrote:
not sure if it was mentioned but how much are the boxes going to be for the next units? i could probably just up my pledge now

Same price as other squads £12

I am at least appreciating that you guys are willing to bounce concepts off of us and change it based on feedback. If you had already forged ahead and started production on things like the Vulcan then you would be facing the opposite problem to people complaining about only seeing concepts. Either way, early in a Kickstarter you will tend to break stretch goals pretty quickly. So I wouldn't expect you to be able to get from hammering out an initial concept, to revising it, to rendering and then getting a production unit ready to show off in a day or two. As it is, I'm impressed you already have a nice-looking Vulcan leg in progress.

And as it is, for the next stretch we have at least already seen renders of Necromutants and Mortificators, plus great concepts of the Armoured Chasseur and the Venusian Rangers. I'm sure after the goal hits we will see another flurry of activity and new renders produced once the designs are hammered out.

So I, for one, am pleased with your current pace. It is refreshing to see this much involvement.

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

 praetor24 wrote:

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

The Laughing Man wrote:
Are there going to be any gameplay videos? I'd definitely like to see some.

Yes, Monday 28th, 1st Vid from game play, with Beta rules available to download

"UPDATE: A big thank you to everyone that has contributed so far. We are doing well. Various people have asked for PDF Basic Rules for all pledge levels....it's yours! PDF BASIC RULES WILL BE SEND TO ALL PLEDGERS"

My opinion is that you should be hitting us with updates before we hit the stretch goals. The other way around does not work well, since you spend much more easily money, if you know beforehand what you 're going to get. And by updates I mean renders, not just concept art. And if possible, upon hitting the goal getting some sprues/actual models views.

I don't mean to complain, but if you have a look at the other more successful KS', they had ready models pics or renders at least for the first couple of their stretch goals. I know that this campaign is a marathon, but part of its success will lie on the continuous engagement of early pledgers like myself.

Another thing that I would be curious to know is what kind of plastic do you intend to use, if you reach the 70k, e.g. I have seen Mantic's plastic models and I am appalled by their quality.

like for instance :





well, that is why we are doing kickstarter, we don't want to over-invest as the Course of Warzone might hit us!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/kings-of-war was only based on Concepts, difference is that once we hit the stretch goal we start to work on the stuff for you and you can see the progress.
Also , by end of our kickstarter you'll see all concepts turned into real models + painted! so WYSIWYG

Please, allow me to say that the KS you use as an example was started by a company that was more or less established in the scene by that time, so let's say the leap of faith expected from the pledgers was easier to take. And I do not insinuate anything by this (personally I have taken a huge jump and I am happy for it). I just say that some wanna-be pledgers might be more sceptical because of this and the lack of stretch-goals renders.

I am happy with the Everassur model you exhibit, but as I said, this has nothing to do with the stretch goals. It was part of the basic funding and we already knew how it looks like, because of the renders. What needs to be done in my opinion is to show more of what we are expecting for each stretch goal. SHOW not TELL is always the successful recipe.

And please don't take it in the wrong way, but having renders ready is not exactly an over-investment.

By the way, what about the plastic? I think that no answer has been given about it so far. Is it because you have not made your minds yet about what material to use?

Regarding plastic, we are collecting quotes atm, one of them is ex-GW Renedra Limited.

 praetor24 wrote:

My opinion is that you should be hitting us with updates before we hit the stretch goals. The other way around does not work well, since you spend much more easily money, if you know beforehand what you 're going to get. And by updates I mean renders, not just concept art. And if possible, upon hitting the goal getting some sprues/actual models views.

I don't mean to complain, but if you have a look at the other more successful KS', they had ready models pics or renders at least for the first couple of their stretch goals. I know that this campaign is a marathon, but part of its success will lie on the continuous engagement of early pledgers like myself.

I have to agree here. Reaper Bones did it very well, alternating free bonus minis with pay for add-ons, not to mention announcing at least two stretch goals in advance (with the prices for the add-ons). If you've got a couple of hundred folks buying add-ons so that that the actual add-on unlock is achieved that's a couple of thousand pounds right there, when you hit enough people, each add-on might easily pay for the next stretch goal. Using free stuff is a good tool for getting more folks interested in a good deal.

Also note in each add-on the actual MSRP price so that folks know they are getting a good deal in the KS.

A KS needs to be a good deal to generate a lot of interest. The company wants to make and sell the product and we want the product, true. But the company has the opportunity to directly sell to us instead of selling through a distributor and a retailer, that's a LOT of extra money for the company (easily twice as much as they get from selling to a distributer), do it's not strange to expect a good deal for the folks turning over a lot of cash for a product they won't see for months (with a real possibility of it never showing up at all).

I'm curious how the -1GBP on RRP will work out. Will that make the 7GBP boxes cost only 2GBP at the 100k GBP stretch goal?

If you had already forged ahead and started production

Regarding dorky poses they did that for the "Brotherhood Dance Team" apparently.

Cergorach wrote:

 praetor24 wrote:

My opinion is that you should be hitting us with updates before we hit the stretch goals. The other way around does not work well, since you spend much more easily money, if you know beforehand what you 're going to get. And by updates I mean renders, not just concept art. And if possible, upon hitting the goal getting some sprues/actual models views.

I don't mean to complain, but if you have a look at the other more successful KS', they had ready models pics or renders at least for the first couple of their stretch goals. I know that this campaign is a marathon, but part of its success will lie on the continuous engagement of early pledgers like myself.

I have to agree here. Reaper Bones did it very well, alternating free bonus minis with pay for add-ons, not to mention announcing at least two stretch goals in advance (with the prices for the add-ons). If you've got a couple of hundred folks buying add-ons so that that the actual add-on unlock is achieved that's a couple of thousand pounds right there, when you hit enough people, each add-on might easily pay for the next stretch goal. Using free stuff is a good tool for getting more folks interested in a good deal.

Also note in each add-on the actual MSRP price so that folks know they are getting a good deal in the KS.

A KS needs to be a good deal to generate a lot of interest. The company wants to make and sell the product and we want the product, true. But the company has the opportunity to directly sell to us instead of selling through a distributor and a retailer, that's a LOT of extra money for the company (easily twice as much as they get from selling to a distributer), do it's not strange to expect a good deal for the folks turning over a lot of cash for a product they won't see for months (with a real possibility of it never showing up at all).

I'm curious how the -1GBP on RRP will work out. Will that make the 7GBP boxes cost only 2GBP at the 100k GBP stretch goal?

I agree, with this. I still have not pledged, but so far I only forsee a 1GBP pledge to get the rule. There is nothing here that is making me jump up and pledge like I have for other kickstarters. If I (a pretty big WZ fan) don't see a reason, I'm not sure who else will. Yes it has been funded, but it's not setting any records.

 praetor24 wrote:

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

 praetor24 wrote:

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

The Laughing Man wrote:
Are there going to be any gameplay videos? I'd definitely like to see some.

Yes, Monday 28th, 1st Vid from game play, with Beta rules available to download

"UPDATE: A big thank you to everyone that has contributed so far. We are doing well. Various people have asked for PDF Basic Rules for all pledge levels....it's yours! PDF BASIC RULES WILL BE SEND TO ALL PLEDGERS"

My opinion is that you should be hitting us with updates before we hit the stretch goals. The other way around does not work well, since you spend much more easily money, if you know beforehand what you 're going to get. And by updates I mean renders, not just concept art. And if possible, upon hitting the goal getting some sprues/actual models views.

I don't mean to complain, but if you have a look at the other more successful KS', they had ready models pics or renders at least for the first couple of their stretch goals. I know that this campaign is a marathon, but part of its success will lie on the continuous engagement of early pledgers like myself.

Another thing that I would be curious to know is what kind of plastic do you intend to use, if you reach the 70k, e.g. I have seen Mantic's plastic models and I am appalled by their quality.

like for instance :





well, that is why we are doing kickstarter, we don't want to over-invest as the Course of Warzone might hit us!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/kings-of-war was only based on Concepts, difference is that once we hit the stretch goal we start to work on the stuff for you and you can see the progress.
Also , by end of our kickstarter you'll see all concepts turned into real models + painted! so WYSIWYG

Please, allow me to say that the KS you use as an example was started by a company that was more or less established in the scene by that time, so let's say the leap of faith expected from the pledgers was easier to take. And I do not insinuate anything by this (personally I have taken a huge jump and I am happy for it). I just say that some wanna-be pledgers might be more sceptical because of this and the lack of stretch-goals renders.

I am happy with the Everassur model you exhibit, but as I said, this has nothing to do with the stretch goals. It was part of the basic funding and we already knew how it looks like, because of the renders. What needs to be done in my opinion is to show more of what we are expecting for each stretch goal. SHOW not TELL is always the successful recipe.

And please don't take it in the wrong way, but having renders ready is not exactly an over-investment.

By the way, what about the plastic? I think that no answer has been given about it so far. Is it because you have not made your minds yet about what material to use?

Well IMHO, Mantic show you nice concept and then mini is not even close to The Fantastic concept,
With WZ, if I don't like something I go on their Facebook Forum and discuss with Prodos team.
And look what we did with Vulcan!

So, no don't rush, do it with us, work with us!

 praetor24 wrote:

Another thing that I would be curious to know is what kind of plastic do you intend to use, if you reach the 70k, e.g. I have seen Mantic's plastic models and I am appalled by their quality.

Mantic's plastic sprues are done by Renedra (undead/elves/dwarves/orcs/etc). Do you mean their restic/sprueless plastic? (gore riders/undead cavalry/etc)

If you aren't looking for this to succeed just to have it succeed currently there isn't a lot of incentive for people to jump in that like the sculpts that are already going to be available. A sweet spot pledge isn't needed (as the project has been funded) but would likely be a good option toward helping this thing explode.

I'm keeping my eye on it seeing if there is a reason for me to jump in as this progresses.

 god.ra wrote:

 praetor24 wrote:

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

 praetor24 wrote:

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

The Laughing Man wrote:
Are there going to be any gameplay videos? I'd definitely like to see some.

Yes, Monday 28th, 1st Vid from game play, with Beta rules available to download

"UPDATE: A big thank you to everyone that has contributed so far. We are doing well. Various people have asked for PDF Basic Rules for all pledge levels....it's yours! PDF BASIC RULES WILL BE SEND TO ALL PLEDGERS"

My opinion is that you should be hitting us with updates before we hit the stretch goals. The other way around does not work well, since you spend much more easily money, if you know beforehand what you 're going to get. And by updates I mean renders, not just concept art. And if possible, upon hitting the goal getting some sprues/actual models views.

I don't mean to complain, but if you have a look at the other more successful KS', they had ready models pics or renders at least for the first couple of their stretch goals. I know that this campaign is a marathon, but part of its success will lie on the continuous engagement of early pledgers like myself.

Another thing that I would be curious to know is what kind of plastic do you intend to use, if you reach the 70k, e.g. I have seen Mantic's plastic models and I am appalled by their quality.

like for instance :





well, that is why we are doing kickstarter, we don't want to over-invest as the Course of Warzone might hit us!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/kings-of-war was only based on Concepts, difference is that once we hit the stretch goal we start to work on the stuff for you and you can see the progress.
Also , by end of our kickstarter you'll see all concepts turned into real models + painted! so WYSIWYG

Please, allow me to say that the KS you use as an example was started by a company that was more or less established in the scene by that time, so let's say the leap of faith expected from the pledgers was easier to take. And I do not insinuate anything by this (personally I have taken a huge jump and I am happy for it). I just say that some wanna-be pledgers might be more sceptical because of this and the lack of stretch-goals renders.

I am happy with the Everassur model you exhibit, but as I said, this has nothing to do with the stretch goals. It was part of the basic funding and we already knew how it looks like, because of the renders. What needs to be done in my opinion is to show more of what we are expecting for each stretch goal. SHOW not TELL is always the successful recipe.

And please don't take it in the wrong way, but having renders ready is not exactly an over-investment.

By the way, what about the plastic? I think that no answer has been given about it so far. Is it because you have not made your minds yet about what material to use?

Well IMHO, Mantic show you nice concept and then mini is not even close to The Fantastic concept,
With WZ, if I don't like something I go on their Facebook Forum and discuss with Prodos team.
And look what we did with Vulcan!

So, no don't rush, do it with us, work with us!

Mate, what I say and what you say are not mutually exclusive. After all the changes they made were on concepts/renders that were ALREADY ready. This is how we were able to say that we did not like them in the first place.

Having no renders means that you have nothing to express your opinion on and therefore zero chance to influence its development with your feedback!

I mean if this feedback-friendly attitude from Prodos was accompanied with ready to show renders, their KS would be literally "devouring" stretch goal after stretch goal in no time. And this is said by a person who dished 150 GBP based just on the renders of the starters and good faith.

 judgedoug wrote:

 praetor24 wrote:

Another thing that I would be curious to know is what kind of plastic do you intend to use, if you reach the 70k, e.g. I have seen Mantic's plastic models and I am appalled by their quality.

Mantic's plastic sprues are done by Renedra (undead/elves/dwarves/orcs/etc). Do you mean their restic/sprueless plastic? (gore riders/undead cavalry/etc)

I am speaking about their zombies. First and only experience with their plastic.

 praetor24 wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

 praetor24 wrote:

Another thing that I would be curious to know is what kind of plastic do you intend to use, if you reach the 70k, e.g. I have seen Mantic's plastic models and I am appalled by their quality.

Mantic's plastic sprues are done by Renedra (undead/elves/dwarves/orcs/etc). Do you mean their restic/sprueless plastic? (gore riders/undead cavalry/etc)

I am speaking about their zombies. First and only experience with their plastic.

Yeah, those are definitely Renedra; basically the same company that did GW's plastics until GW bought their own equipment several years back. Yours has gotta be the first negative thing I've heard about that sprue; it's generally viewed as the best plastic zombie kit on the market, superior in detail to GW's older zombies and Wargames Factory's first zombie kit (though their new zombie female sprues are fantastic). Renedra does the sprues for Mantic, Perry, Warlord Games, and several other companies...
though personally I'd like to see Warzone use Wargames Factory, as they are cheaper than Renedra and Wargames Factory has just produced the highest quality plastics in the wargames market with Dreamforge's stuff.

Yeah, Wargames factory would be ideal for the type of models they are presenting in this kickstarter.

Maybe an adjustment for quantity that provides a discount? Similar to what Dreamforge did with the Leviathans and troops. The more you buy the cheaper it gets. If you only bought one of the items they were pretty close to discounted retail. If you bought 3+ of said items they dropped to a decent amount less. Just a thought.