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@judgedoug
I do have a link to a review but is in German which is not much of a help to you.

Well, if that's the goal all Kickstarters should aspire to, I can't see the fashion for them lasting all that long. Something's got to give, people are throwing away money on crowdfunding like crazy and for most people, their personal finances are more or less a zero sum game.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Well, if that's the goal all Kickstarters should aspire to, I can't see the fashion for them lasting all that long. Something's got to give, people are throwing away money on crowdfunding like crazy and for most people, their personal finances are more or less a zero sum game.

I don't know about that, those kickstarters were incredible values. I don't feel that I wasted a dollar.

 Andrew1975 wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:

Yeah, 18k. Its not moving very much. Many of these project lowball what they need just to guarantee backing. I figure if you can't get $200,000 out of a kickstarter you are not doing it right.

With what data are you making such an assertion? The genre is still far too young to form any kind of overarching analysis. As it stands, the Kickstarter needs of a company like Ramshackle Games (to pick an example from the lower end of the spectrum of goals) and those of, say, Mantic, are wildly different. It's different things for different projects.

I'm basing it off of past kickstartes by new companies see Battle of Alabaster, rivet wars and Dreamforge. Also from personal experience running companies. Raising $200k through normal financing options should not be too hard, the press and exposure that kickstarters present is worth far more than the money raised. Hell a good kickstarter is a way of showing consumer confidence, you can use that to bring in real investors.

After seeing Dreamforges success I would happily invest in Marks shop. The product is amazing.

Now Sedition Wars had CMON promotion (and a come look at our new KS to all Zombicide Buyers), Mike McVeys name plus a lot of already complete sculpts

Rivit Wars again had strong CMON promotion (and again cross promotion from Zombicide/sedition Wars/Relic Knights)

Dream Forged is the closest to a new company, but Mark had already been making and selling minis, and had run a previous sucessfull (tho small) KS for the metal Eisenkern

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:

Yeah, 18k. Its not moving very much. Many of these project lowball what they need just to guarantee backing. I figure if you can't get $200,000 out of a kickstarter you are not doing it right.

With what data are you making such an assertion? The genre is still far too young to form any kind of overarching analysis. As it stands, the Kickstarter needs of a company like Ramshackle Games (to pick an example from the lower end of the spectrum of goals) and those of, say, Mantic, are wildly different. It's different things for different projects.

I'm basing it off of past kickstartes by new companies see Battle of Alabaster, rivet wars and Dreamforge. Also from personal experience running companies. Raising $200k through normal financing options should not be too hard, the press and exposure that kickstarters present is worth far more than the money raised. Hell a good kickstarter is a way of showing consumer confidence, you can use that to bring in real investors.

After seeing Dreamforges success I would happily invest in Marks shop. The product is amazing.

Now Sedition Wars had CMON promotion (and a come look at our new KS to all Zombicide Buyers), Mike McVeys name plus a lot of already complete sculpts

Rivit Wars again had strong CMON promotion (and again cross promotion from Zombicide/sedition Wars/Relic Knights)

Dream Forged is the closest to a new company, but Mark had already been making and selling minis, and had run a previous sucessfull (tho small) KS for the metal Eisenkern

You can come up with any reasons you want. You could say that Warzone runs on Nostalgia. Maybe CMON is a big card to play, but Marks last kickstarter was hardly noticed, but makes a good point. Same basic miniatures, just made from plastic and at a great price point. Those sold like hot cakes. Warzone should take a hint.

 Andrew1975 wrote:


You can come up with any reasons you want. You could say that Warzone runs on Nostalgia. Maybe CMON is a big card to play, but Marks last kickstarter was hardly noticed, but makes a good point. Same basic miniatures, just made from plastic and at a great price point. Those sold like hot cakes. Warzone should take a hint.

Though dont discount the possibility that people have been spent after all these KS, many of which have had $100-150 sweet spots

I am a bit worried that some KS might be launched at the wrong times though for now that doesnt seem to be a problem I suppose.

According to Kicktraq the WZR KS is trending close towards 400k GBP, that's about $675k. I would not call that a bad project! That might not be a Reaper Bones or Kingdoms of Death: Monster, but it's close to Dreadball, better then Rivet Wars, and way better then the Dreamforge KS. This thing has growth potential, the only problem is that the folks at Prodos can't keep up with us over enthusiastic guppies, high on miniatures crack ;-)

I don't understand the 200k figure. These are all kickstarters that I followed that made under 200k but were wildly successful based on the expectations of their creators and their backers.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mierceminiatures/darklands-a-world-of-war

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1463917927/imbrian-arts-miniatures

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/929519929/damsels-of-darkmyre

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bombshellminis/bombshell-babes?ref=search

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/131182444/assimilation-alien-host?ref=search

greywulf wrote:
I don't understand the 200k figure. These are all kickstarters that I followed that made under 200k but were wildly successful based on the expectations of their creators and their backers.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mierceminiatures/darklands-a-world-of-war

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1463917927/imbrian-arts-miniatures

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/929519929/damsels-of-darkmyre

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bombshellminis/bombshell-babes?ref=search

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/131182444/assimilation-alien-host?ref=search

Really? Why would you do this?

greywulf wrote:
I don't understand the 200k figure. These are all kickstarters that I followed that made under 200k but were wildly successful based on the expectations of their creators and their backers.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mierceminiatures/darklands-a-world-of-war

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1463917927/imbrian-arts-miniatures

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/929519929/damsels-of-darkmyre

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bombshellminis/bombshell-babes?ref=search

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/131182444/assimilation-alien-host?ref=search

No, no, no! You're doing it wrong. You're using numbers and things. We only accept anecdotes and gut feelings here. $200k is a well-thought out level and not totally made up and arbitrary! Because reasons!

 Andrew1975 wrote:

I'm basing it off of past kickstartes by new companies see Battle of Alabaster, rivet wars and Dreamforge. Also from personal experience running companies. Raising $200k through normal financing options should not be too hard, the press and exposure that kickstarters present is worth far more than the money raised.

I think you might be overestimating the ability of what is, in many cases, some guy with a handful of wargaming miniature masters and some comissioned art, to raise start-up capital. Particularly $200,000.00 of start-up capital.

and moving to next one

I get a strong feeling that before this Kickstarter ends my wallet is going to cry in agony while I jump for joy.

Golgotha is back! I've still got the original casting, the one where she's wearing those awful platform heels. Hope that with modernization, Prodos will be able to rectify that.

Free hero for Dark Legion pledge up? Allow me to disagree here but I think the starting level of pledge to get this bonus is a little high. It should be the sweet point, which is the level that allows to get a good quantity of product at reasonable cost. That point is normally easy to identificate as it allows the backer to get more than a starter while keeping the cost around 100$, for that reason is a common choice in many backers.

IMHO, the sweet point in this KS is the Razide level: 2 starters and the book for 130$, it's a reasonable choice. Dark Legion is too costly. Realize it is not quite popular (34 backers), actually, those pledgers that want to do a heavy invesment go directly to The Cartel (46 backers). On the other hand The Razide has 76 backers. It is clearly a common choice and many backers standing at Necromutant (only one starter + book) could raise their pledge to Razide in the next days if in the Beta rules are good and you add a little of added value throwing a few freebies. The point here is that if you guys only reward the heavy (wealthy) backers, that will result in a loss of appeal.

Also by the way, what does mean : "1gbp RRP of each Hero" ?

And allow me to comment one thing more. This



Correct me if I'm wrong but... the 45k stretch doesn't mean that each starter gets a special faction die but instead that thanks to the 5000 gbp raised you can make special dice and sell them us at the bloody cost of 6 gbp each die... are you serious?!

Actually I think it's four dice for 6GBP, which still strikes me as.... fairly pricey.

On the plus side, I'm definitely liking the minis and am glad that the Kickstarter is still going pretty well. I'm hoping they can make at least the Capitol stretch goal, though I've already decided Dark Legion and Bahaus as the starter sets I'm going to pick up when they're released and I have the cash, and Brotherhood later on.

Yeah, the "Select Any 4" seems to imply that you can select any combination of four custom dice for £6. £1.50 per die is a bit pricey, but being a small run of custom dice, it doesn't seem completely out to lunch. Most 6-die non-custom polyhedral sets tend to weigh in at around $9. Custom sets can go for $10+ depending on who's selling them. I'd certainly consider adding these in, though I think one of the later stretches is getting custom dice in the starters as a freebie, so I may hold off on them and put the money toward special-edition cards or a small unit within the same price range. But I may still grab them because I'd love to have some D20's with the Bauhaus cog on them (they may screw me less than my current D20's...).

And that's a great selection of characters to go for as well. Can't wait to see 'em in the flesh. Roll on £50k!

Edit - Ah, there it is the £70k stretch is the one where the dice become freebies (and we get plastic troops). Don't think the stretch layout ever implied £45k would give the starters the custom dice, just that they would produce them at all. Oh well, not every stretch needs to be dynamite, a relatively lax stretch goal will give them some breathing room to actually show us what they've been working on before reaching the next big stretch. For a 60-day KS, this one is still pretty snappy. I expect a drop-off tomorrow, at least until the weekend.

Hm kickstarter only credit card, no bank transfers? that sucks :(

I agree that while the heroes will be cool, the level to get them to be freebies is a tad large. So for the average pledger that stretch goal is simply going to be an Add On stretch goal

Any word yet on if the Hero and Squad cards will be sold separately, or available via download? I do recall a note saying the factions decks will be.

Janzerker wrote:
Free hero for Dark Legion pledge up? Allow me to disagree here but I think the starting level of pledge to get this bonus is a little high. It should be the sweet point, which is the level that allows to get a good quantity of product at reasonable cost. That point is normally easy to identificate as it allows the backer to get more than a starter while keeping the cost around 100$, for that reason is a common choice in many backers.

IMHO, the sweet point in this KS is the Razide level: 2 starters and the book for 130$, it's a reasonable choice. Dark Legion is too costly. Realize it is not quite popular (34 backers), actually, those pledgers that want to do a heavy invesment go directly to The Cartel (46 backers). On the other hand The Razide has 76 backers. It is clearly a common choice and many backers standing at Necromutant (only one starter + book) could raise their pledge to Razide in the next days if in the Beta rules are good and you add a little of added value throwing a few freebies. The point here is that if you guys only reward the heavy (wealthy) backers, that will result in a loss of appeal.

Also by the way, what does mean : "1gbp RRP of each Hero" ?

Yah, the Razide level is prety well the sweet spot. Since you can justify the two starter sets as two of the same for a mid sized force, or two diffrent boxs so you can try the game out with a friend and run some demo games for your gaming group.

It's abit harder to do that with the three starter set level.

 Ronin_eX wrote:
Oh well, not every stretch needs to be dynamite, a relatively lax stretch goal will give them some breathing room to actually show us what they've been working on before reaching the next big stretch. For a 60-day KS, this one is still pretty snappy

I'd say this is a really good point! After all it does seem as they have a substantial amount of work to do just to catch up with the previous two stretch-goals (especially since they are so responsive to community feedback). But to be honest, for me, the best reward or stretch goal is that Warzone gets resurrected and that the KS gives Prodos some momentum while doing it! Sure freebies are always welcome but that's not why I'm supporting this.

But enough of this whole "I don't like this stretch goal this or that " or "this is how a kickstarter should be like" for crying out loud, let's talk about all the awesome eye-candy we got (and if not awesome, how to improve it) and about the resurrection of Warzone instead, (expectations, wishes, random rants, nostalgia)!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, I'm super exited about seeing some concepts or renders for the new heroes, great choice Prodos I say!!!

correct one it should say "£1.00 off"

 c0un7_z3r0 wrote:

 Ronin_eX wrote:
Oh well, not every stretch needs to be dynamite, a relatively lax stretch goal will give them some breathing room to actually show us what they've been working on before reaching the next big stretch. For a 60-day KS, this one is still pretty snappy

I'd say this is a really good point! After all it does seem as they have a substantial amount of work to do just to catch up with the previous two stretch-goals (especially since they are so responsive to community feedback). But to be honest, for me, the best reward or stretch goal is that Warzone gets resurrected and that the KS gives Prodos some momentum while doing it! Sure freebies are always welcome but that's not why I'm supporting this.

But enough of this whole "I don't like this stretch goal this or that " or "this is how a kickstarter should be like" for crying out loud, let's talk about all the awesome eye-candy we got (and if not awesome, how to improve it) and about the resurrection of Warzone instead, (expectations, wishes, random rants, nostalgia)!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, I'm super exited about seeing some concepts or renders for the new heroes, great choice Prodos I say!!!

Indeed, that cannot be stated enough. Warzone being re-booted was somewhere on my "list of stuff that wont happen" so this alone is amazing. That I also get Bauhaus stuff right off the bat just sweetens the pot. Any further stretch goals are gravy.

And I'm currently excited to see how the Bauhaus renders are looking and to get my hands on the rules on Monday. I'm only saddened because my friends are getting together on Saturday for some gaming, so I wont be able to do a test-run on the rules until we get together next.

No matter what else happens, I'm just happy to know one of my favourite properties has made a return.

No Valerie Duval :( Would be cool to see a proper Golgotha model, though

I can only repeat it: Folks tone done your expectations towards KS or you will be in for a rude awakening in the near future.

Everyone wants a good deal, me too. But what some ask is gettinge really ridiculous. And the dice are a fair deal for low run, custom dice.

 ergotoxin wrote:
No Valerie Duval :( Would be cool to see a proper Golgotha model, though

Max Steiner seems to be a better choice since we get Venusian Rangers and not yet Etoiles Mortant

This miniature is not quite finished, but almost there. You can build it in all 3 ways (and more). The kit will come with spare arms and 2 head options!

Keep it up! We're just over half way to seeing the new Capitol (and hopefully 1/3 of the way to unlocking/seeing new Imperials at 120k? *fingers crossed*).

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:
I can only repeat it: Folks tone done your expectations towards KS or you will be in for a rude awakening in the near future.

Everyone wants a good deal, me too. But what some ask is gettinge really ridiculous. And the dice are a fair deal for low run, custom dice.

I agree with you, though can you blame them after some of the crazy deals in other ones?

Angelika looks great! Love to see her with sword instead of a whip though :-) I thought DL was going to be my second faction but bauhas looks really tempting right now!