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Here's the alternate 'Everasseur'.

That is kind of brutal, megaman grown up! ;-)

The Laughing Man wrote:

It's steadily reaching the point that it's used to dismiss reasonable arguments or statements instead of chastising people for being flippant about Nazis and the holocaust.

Godwin's law was always about dismissing hyperbolic idiocy and had nothing to do with the holocaust

This isn't about entitlement, not at all. This is about a simple choice. Should I back this YES/NO and the unfairness of this has pushed me further into the NO camp. Its not about the money, it is the principle.

By the cardinals blessed sandals, It's £ 7 and UK pledgers will come out on top any way! Is a principle that will hive you £ 7 more important than supporting a gam which might give you countless of hours of joyful gaming/painting/modeling which imo is worth more than money!?

And apart from that, I can promise you all that prodos got your critoque by now so can we please drop all this trolling!

Palindrome wrote:

The Laughing Man wrote:

It's steadily reaching the point that it's used to dismiss reasonable arguments or statements instead of chastising people for being flippant about Nazis and the holocaust.

Godwin's law was always about dismissing hyperbolic idiocy and had nothing to do with the holocaust

This isn't about entitlement, not at all. This is about a simple choice. Should I back this YES/NO and the unfairness of this has pushed me further into the NO camp. Its not about the money, it is the principle.

Principle of what ?
what is unfair ? we got free shipping ... save of £12 to internationals.






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 rob_alderman wrote:
Here's the alternate 'Everasseur'.

I love that :p

 c0un7_z3r0 wrote:
By the cardinals blessed sandals, It's £ 7 and UK pledgers will come out on top any way! Is a principle that will hive you £ 7 more important than supporting a gam which might give you countless of hours of joyful gaming/painting/modeling which imo is worth more than money!?

And apart from that, I can promise you all that prodos got your critoque by now so can we please drop all this trolling!

As I have already said it is the principle, not the money. I fail to see how this is trolling?

This game will be released, KS or no, and I should be able to get what I want for the same cost from other retailers when it is released anyway. I currently see little benefit of backing this.

There is not much more to be said, unless someone else decides to be needlessly aggressive.

And I did address your principles, and while accusing you for trolling might have been a bit harsh I'd say all this crap about the free mini starts to look like it!

Palindrome wrote:
This game will be released, KS or no, and I should be able to get what I want for the same cost from other retailers when it is released anyway. I currently see little benefit of backing this.

Because it will give prodos more funds so that we may see more awesome miniatures sooner and increase the probability for this to be more lasting than previous incarnations of the game? Id rather see this be the final and "everlasting" version of warzone than get a free £ 7 miniature...

I have an idea though, why not discuss this awesome game that's being ressurected instead (warzone)?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And prodos have stated that there will be goodies for all in the future.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I might just have to get that new Everasseur even if I'm not playing Cybertronic! It looks like Cybertronics take on the quake 2 enforcer and I really like it, this quake-esque design isn't so bad after all!

I can see why UK backers are bothered. It's not about the money, it's about the idea. And I honestly think that Prodos made a mistake doing that. International folks understand that shipping out of the country costs more then shipping within the country and are often reasonable about paying extra shipping. Prodos still has to pay shipping for those folks outside the UK. Honestly, I think that negativity doesn't weigh up against the pitiable production costs of a mini.

As a side note, I think that Prodos also did a disservice to the folks living in Europe, shipping to the rest of the world is twice as expensive as shipping to Europe, we're essentially subsidizing the rest of the world shipping...

I honestly don't see a reason why I should spend money at this time up front beyond my 1GBP backing. It's not as if we'll be seeing the minis any faster then the retail channels or getting them cheaper then through the retail channels (the opposite in fact). I don't see any benefit in spending 7GBP for a mini which will retail for 7.99GBP, which I could get for 6.60GBP on release (with no shipping fees). The free cards aren't that interesting imho, free minis are, because I can't do those myself. Prodos might be hinting on future free goodies, but their stretchgoals are just very unclear and thus very difficult for folks to get excited over. Excitement drives a KS. This KS is loosing steam quickly:




The KS was trending towards £400k, two disappointing days it's closer to £300k.

Cergorach wrote:
I can see why UK backers are bothered. It's not about the money, it's about the idea. And I honestly think that Prodos made a mistake doing that. International folks understand that shipping out of the country costs more then shipping within the country and are often reasonable about paying extra shipping. Prodos still has to pay shipping for those folks outside the UK. Honestly, I think that negativity doesn't weigh up against the pitiable production costs of a mini.

As a side note, I think that Prodos also did a disservice to the folks living in Europe, shipping to the rest of the world is twice as expensive as shipping to Europe, we're essentially subsidizing the rest of the world shipping...

I honestly don't see a reason why I should spend money at this time up front beyond my 1GBP backing. It's not as if we'll be seeing the minis any faster then the retail channels or getting them cheaper then through the retail channels (the opposite in fact). I don't see any benefit in spending 7GBP for a mini which will retail for 7.99GBP, which I could get for 6.60GBP on release (with no shipping fees). The free cards aren't that interesting imho, free minis are, because I can't do those myself. Prodos might be hinting on future free goodies, but their stretchgoals are just very unclear and thus very difficult for folks to get excited over. Excitement drives a KS. This KS is loosing steam quickly:


The KS was trending towards £400k, two disappointing days it's closer to £300k.

I'm not bothered. I'm not one of those who can Rage for 50p... or £7.

I still pay LESS than folks in US/rest of the world, the mini cost me £7 and I'm happy to pay that.

Also ,I think you need to check your data about shipping cost before you judge.

http://www.royalmail.com/packet-despatch-low/international-delivery

Looks like Prodos is going to pay more that £12 for international AND Europe, the book itself is (300+ page they said+ hard back) is something like 2,5kg... that is £14+ Europe and £24+ Rest of the world.
Sure free mini is cool, but they are not charity, and they operating on IP (and I believe they have to give away some profit, are't they?).
More they give away for FREE, less profit they will make and that only means less stuff for us in future releases.
I want Mishima to be done be end of the year, please

Aslo about you charts, check your data again.... all kickstarters reaching the point when they slow down... we've been there many times with other KS project.

Cergorach I can think of one very good reason to back this kickstarter campaign. Yes the game was going to be coming out anyway but with only 3 factions and with a very limited number of models. Thanks to this kickstarter it will already be launching with 4 factions and an additional unit and hero for each. Helping to ensure that Warzone launches with a good range of models on day one is in my opinion the best reason to back this kickstarter.

Cergorach wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

Yeah, those are definitely Renedra; basically the same company that did GW's plastics until GW bought their own equipment several years back.

Hahahah!!!

No! Absolutely no! Renedra is run by ex-GW employees, Renedra has never produced anything for GW, and GW has had their plastic manufacturing in house for a long, long time. Far, far longer then a couple of years. Renedra would simply never had the capacity to produce the number of sprues/molds GW required, even in the early days of GW. I would estimate that GW has done their plastics in house for two decades, maybe even longer.

.

Man, again check your "source data" ... as you talking c..p

Go to Renedra Website and click on HISTORY.

qoute : "...10 years later in 1985 I started my own Toolmaking business in Wisbech and one of my first customers was Games Workshop who were in their early stages of Plastic miniatures. In 1998 GW bought out my business and I continued working for them until I took retirement in February 2007."

 rob_alderman wrote:
Here's the alternate 'Everasseur'.

I was sceptical regarding that pose, but Jesus christ on an effing motorbike, that's gorgeous!

 rob_alderman wrote:
Here's the alternate 'Everasseur'.

Holy... This makes the choice for a starter set even harder!

megaman grown up, lol

Great description and a grat model. I'll back this project soon enough, like how it's run, and the mini and game look great

Found these photos of a Praetorian Stalker on the net. Surely fan made​​, but cool.

 god.ra wrote:

Cergorach wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

Yeah, those are definitely Renedra; basically the same company that did GW's plastics until GW bought their own equipment several years back.

Hahahah!!!

No! Absolutely no! Renedra is run by ex-GW employees, Renedra has never produced anything for GW, and GW has had their plastic manufacturing in house for a long, long time. Far, far longer then a couple of years. Renedra would simply never had the capacity to produce the number of sprues/molds GW required, even in the early days of GW. I would estimate that GW has done their plastics in house for two decades, maybe even longer.

.

Man, again check your "source data" ... as you are talking c..p

Go to Renedra Website and click on HISTORY.

qoute : "...10 years later in 1985 I started my own Toolmaking business in Wisbech and one of my first customers was Games Workshop who were in their early stages of Plastic miniatures. In 1998 GW bought out my business and I continued working for them until I took retirement in February 2007."

That was NOT Renedra and that is not a few years ago, that's 15 years ago. Sure not 20 years, my bad (I blame age and having been around GW since WD98). But Renedra is a different company with very limited production capacity and no real interest to expand that production capacity all that much (their words not mine). Also, he's talking about toolmaking, that's making the metal molds, and not about production. A lot of companies that do the casting of metal minis inhouse outsource the production of the (rubber) molds. Renadra Limited has an incorporation date of "12 Mar 2007" and that company has never worked for GW.

god.ra wrote:
Also ,I think you need to check your data about shipping cost before you judge.

http://www.royalmail.com/packet-despatch-low/international-delivery

Looks like Prodos is going to pay more that £12 for international AND Europe, the book itself is (300+ page they said+ hard back) is something like 2,5kg... that is £14+ Europe and £24+ Rest of the world.
Sure free mini is cool, but they are not charity, and they operating on IP (and I believe they have to give away some profit, are't they?).
More they give away for FREE, less profit they will make and that only means less stuff for us in future releases.
I want Mishima to be done be end of the year, please

I had a different pdf in front of me for shipping (up to 2kg), that's Parcelforce and not exactly cheap. Still shipping to the US costs about three times what it costs for shipping to the Netherlands. I also expect that they can find a better international shipping company, even the Dutch TNT is cheaper then UK Parcelforce...

The 'free' shipping within the UK is calculated in the pledge level price, that same amount is imho just added to international shipping, and also the reason why I find it strange that UK backers don't get a free mini.

Also, WZR is a skirmish game, would you want to burn it bright on initial release and then let it sputter out to a slow death because of limited to no releases? Games/lines like WarmaHordes still exist because we have new releases every month. I really don't want a huge release with 8 factions and another 10 subfactions. Prodos has apparently announced that Mishima will not be part of this KS, with the actual release hitting at the earliest in June 2013, I seriously doubt they'll be doing Mishima before the end of the year.

Don't get me wrong I like WZ and think it's good that it's getting another shot at fame, but imho there are a lot of issues with the KS. Ranging from not enough preparation (something the failed 'Beyond the Gates of Antares' KS also suffered from, although WZR isn't that bad), unclear stretch goals, high price point at all levels of KS, free mini only for folks outside the UK, etc. Sure, it's not as bad as the FASA, the Beyond the Gates of Antares, or the Battletech KS, but it's not even close to other more successful KS (and I'm not talking about CMON, Ogre or Reaper KS projects).

I'm mostly interested in the extra interest WZR is generating, I still have the old minis, I still have the old rules. Sure the new minis look (in some instances) better then the old stuff, but not so much that it's worth twice the price (or more) then the old minis and atleast a four month wait. I currently rather spend the money of a starter and a rulebook on 50+ of the old minis...

Aslo about you charts, check your data again.... all kickstarters reaching the point when they slow down... we've been there many times with other KS project.

A slowdown is expected, not a crawl. ~50 backers and 4k-5k a day was imho the slowdown, a slowdown to ~20 backers and 2k a day is a crawl for this KS.

Palindrome wrote:

The Laughing Man wrote:

It's steadily reaching the point that it's used to dismiss reasonable arguments or statements instead of chastising people for being flippant about Nazis and the holocaust.

Godwin's law was always about dismissing hyperbolic idiocy and had nothing to do with the holocaust

This isn't about entitlement, not at all. This is about a simple choice. Should I back this YES/NO and the unfairness of this has pushed me further into the NO camp. Its not about the money, it is the principle.

If it's about dismissing hyberbolic idiocy lets invoke it now and dismiss everything you've posted in this thread.

Or I can just press ignore.

Anyway, how likely do people think it is that further stretch goals will include unlocking additional factions? I didn't think it would be that likely at first given the amount of time Prodos have before release but then I thought that they might pull a Mantic and set up and fund a second wave of releases.

The Laughing Man wrote:

Or I can just press ignore..

If you wish to be so childish then be my guest.

The Laughing Man wrote:
Anyway, how likely do people think it is that further stretch goals will include unlocking additional factions? I didn't think it would be that likely at first given the amount of time Prodos have before release but then I thought that they might pull a Mantic and set up and fund a second wave of releases.

Well they've already stated that Imperial or Mishima will not make an appearance in this kickstarter. However we stand every change of seeing Capitol on launch as they are unlocked at £80k. I'd love to see all faction available on launch but only if they are well developed and have a decent number of units and characters available. As it stands the first 4 factions are in fairly decent shape with 2 heroes, 2 squads with a 3rd in the pipeline assuming £60k is pledged and 1 walker/monster. That's enough to get a fairly interesting small force together but we will all almost certainly want more variety fairly soon after launch (models for squad leaders and special/heavy weapons mostly I suspect). So I think Prodos' approach to adding the other factions at a later date is a fairly sensible one. A second wave of releases for the existing factions is certainly a viable option and could also lead to more money being pledged but I think that trying to work on every faction at once at this early date would be a massive mistake.

Just had a look at this.. a bit KS'ed out after the relative disappointment of the Gates of Antares not reaching its target. At least this one has started with a lot more already on the table!

Looks kind of fun though.. was initially put off as I thought it was a mass-battle system (and I just don't have the time to paint those these days) but seeing that it's a skirmish game has definitely got me interested. Looks rather OTT, but also with a touch of humour, and the setting is kind of cool. Will have to delve into it a bit deeper, but looks like it most certainly might be worth £80 or so for a couple of starter sets and a rule book.

A couple of quick questions for anyone in the know, if I may! I've missed the start of this thread, so apologies if they have been answered already:
- Will those starter sets be a playable force straight from the off?
- And presumably all the rules needed etc. in the rulebook?
(so what I'm trying to say... if I went for the £84 'The Regide' pledge that would be enough for a mate and I to play with nothing else?)

Yes, Capitol. My precious.

I like how if you aren't offering people 200+ minis for chump change with a dump truck full of freebies and blowjobs thrown on top then pledging isn't "worthwhile" and you clearly weren't "prepared" for a KS, and every single game from now on will be "doomed to fail" even after barely a week has passed. Thank you for that, CMoN.

 Pacific wrote:
A couple of quick questions for anyone in the know, if I may! I've missed the start of this thread, so apologies if they have been answered already:
- Will those starter sets be a playable force straight from the off?
- And presumably all the rules needed etc. in the rulebook?
(so what I'm trying to say... if I went for the £84 'The Regide' pledge that would be enough for a mate and I to play with nothing else?)

The starter boxes do contain everything you need for a basic army but it is just a basic army you will want more stuff in time. From what I remember the optimum level for the game has been speculated to be around the 20 to 40 figure mark depending on how elite or otherwise your army is. Which is not too bad considering the cost of the figures.

But yeah for 2 players the Razide level looks to be an ideal starting point.

 Sidstyler wrote:
I like how if you aren't offering people 200+ minis for chump change with a dump truck full of freebies and blowjobs thrown on top then pledging isn't "worthwhile" and you clearly weren't "prepared" for a KS, and every single game from now on will be "doomed to fail" even after barely a week has passed. Thank you for that, CMoN.

BS! The reason Prodos isn't prepared isn't because they are offering 'little value', but because at launch they didn't even have concepts ready for stretch goals that were clearly going to be met. Instead they are using 15 year old illustrations. They did have 3D art ready for the first three starters, the Bauhaus concept art was ready quickly when the KS goal was met. Now there are of course tons of folks jumping out of the woodwork claiming that a KS is supposed to work like that, it isn't. Just look at The Gates of Antares, just an idea ready and it failed miserably. I don't mind if stretch goals get so high that the folks running the KS didn't anticipate it, but your not going to tell me that £50k was utterly surprising...

No one is going to claim that the WZR KS is going to fail, it has already hit it's goals, that's because it's goals were low. What some of us are saying is that it isn't as successful as it could be and should be. Part of that is the 'little value' in getting in early, another is 'bad' preparation and unclear 'facts' (stretchgoals, MSRP pricing, etc.). As for CMON and Reaper 'spoiling things', they know how to do business and they know it well. It's not for nothing that those folks raised $2 and $3.4 million in a KS. As for making retailers unhappy, folks seem to have the wrong priority, you sell stuff by making customers happy, not by making retailers happy. Most customers don't give a flying F about retailers, if a retailer doesn't stock a product and doesn't want to order a product, a customer will go to a different store.

It seems to me that folks are forgetting a few things, WZ is an old property, many fans/folks already have a ton of WZ minis, and many of those old minis are still available for half (or less) then the new minis. Sure the new Razide looks awesome, but is it worth twice the price of the current model? For some of us it is, for some it isn't. With most other KS you have new models/games, not new versions of old models. Look at the Dreamforge KS, that Crusader Leviathan was a cheaper version ($89 vs. $375) of the old resin model in an easier medium (plastic vs resin), not to mention it was more then 25% off ($89 vs $120, even more if you bought more then one). It only had to compete with a few expensive resin copies, folks wanted to use it as 'cheap' Knight titans, it's even close in size to a FW Warhound titan ($550), that's value and demand in one neat package. Heck we were getting 'free' stuff at stretchgoal levels of £24k, £36k, and £60k.

I am loving the new 'Everasseur' render. It's so amazing. If it ends up in the starter, my ability to choose factions is gone. I'll have to get them all.

 agustin wrote:
I am loving the new 'Everasseur' render. It's so amazing. If it ends up in the starter, my ability to choose factions is gone. I'll have to get them all.

Yeah, the choice is getting more and more difficult. Quite a lot hangs on the final version of the Vulcan though.

 Nick Ellingworth wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
A couple of quick questions for anyone in the know, if I may! I've missed the start of this thread, so apologies if they have been answered already:
- Will those starter sets be a playable force straight from the off?
- And presumably all the rules needed etc. in the rulebook?
(so what I'm trying to say... if I went for the £84 'The Regide' pledge that would be enough for a mate and I to play with nothing else?)

The starter boxes do contain everything you need for a basic army but it is just a basic army you will want more stuff in time. From what I remember the optimum level for the game has been speculated to be around the 20 to 40 figure mark depending on how elite or otherwise your army is. Which is not too bad considering the cost of the figures.

But yeah for 2 players the Razide level looks to be an ideal starting point.

I can confirm that


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 agustin wrote:
I am loving the new 'Everasseur' render. It's so amazing. If it ends up in the starter, my ability to choose factions is gone. I'll have to get them all.

Yes, he is going to be optional model for Cybertronic Starter this will be announced soon

 Nick Ellingworth wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
A couple of quick questions for anyone in the know, if I may! I've missed the start of this thread, so apologies if they have been answered already:
- Will those starter sets be a playable force straight from the off?
- And presumably all the rules needed etc. in the rulebook?
(so what I'm trying to say... if I went for the £84 'The Regide' pledge that would be enough for a mate and I to play with nothing else?)

The starter boxes do contain everything you need for a basic army but it is just a basic army you will want more stuff in time. From what I remember the optimum level for the game has been speculated to be around the 20 to 40 figure mark depending on how elite or otherwise your army is. Which is not too bad considering the cost of the figures.

But yeah for 2 players the Razide level looks to be an ideal starting point.

Starters are supposed to be balanced against each other.



I wonder how big the alternate Everasseur is going to be?
And pleas dont change the praetorian from how the art looks, its still very much upp to date and perfect as it is IMO.

Bubbalicious wrote:
I wonder how big the alternate Everasseur is going to be?

This. I want to see size comparisons of all the stuff actually.

There is a size comparison of a legionnaire to a warmachine figure on their facebook page.