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 Kroothawk wrote:
I think, we got your argument the first 50 times you and phil751posted it, even if we don't share it. Can we now go on?

@ Kroothawk Actually my issue was completely unrelated Hulks and was deliberately misunderstood by for want of a better phrase by nostalgic fanbois. I had actually dropped this until you decided to bring it back up again.
I'm not pouring scorn on this project as some seem to believe And was pledged at £333 level before i pulled due to reasons im not going into again.The project has already achieved funding for Bauhaus and I'm confident it will make 80k at minimum as things stand but potentially a great deal more depending on how the next 49 days are handled. At this point in time judging by kicktraq the pledges based by nostalgia have already been placed and like hulk has mentioned Prodos needs to bring in those new to mutant chronicles for it to be super successful. I'm sure they can do it and I think he's not doing a bad job so far if a little brusque towards criticism , which might be coming off harsher than meant due to English not being a first language. I may yet renew my pledge depending on how the kick starter develops , if not i will certainly be looking out for it at retail. ultimately Prodos are going to make a lot more progress listening to some of the criticism than the blind fanbois praise.

Sooo... I hate to say this, but on the over-all price/value proposition of this all... How is it that the Helldorado Kickstarter can do what it is doing, while Prodos has to do.... their interpretative math to show us value? The double-hellgate early-bird pledge for Helldorado, was $160 (I snagged one, for disclosure-sake). You are allowed to trade in contents for full value... so if you trade in an entire Hellgate, you get an extra $120 to use, for the $70 difference between early-bird Hellgate, and double-Hellgate. In essence, your $160 will buy you roughly $210-230 (depending on how you look at it) of their product. They're also soon to add the entire back-catalog of their game, as add-on purchase options, meaning those buyers who pledged big, and early, will get product CHEAPER than any Miniatures Market sale.

On Day 1 of Warzone, I backed at Cartel, giving them more than $400USD due to the high shipping... and I still genuinely don't know where all my value is. 90% of what I plan to pick up with that purchase were the items already in production, so yes... I was in essence, pre-ordering above MSRP.

I'm waiting to see the rules, and see how the remainder of the KS is run, but increasingly i'm thinking I WILL buy $400 of Warzone... just six months later, at online webstore prices where i'll expect to get a great deal more, likely for less.

Absolutely no disrespect intended... just my $0.02

 Consul Scipio wrote:
I don't care about the preorder discussion. But I do care about this:

Prodos wrote:
I can't comment on how our chosen FLGS...

Are you all planning to sell your products to distributors in the US or not? Not doing so will limit your availability to just about nil over here. I could be reading it wrong and I'm pulling it out of context to the posts but I am concerned now.

As you should be... notice Prodos has nothing to say to my post...

Gotcha' … There Are NO Savings On This KS Period.
This is a pre-order move to generate Hype and see what will sell and what we think.

 Hulksmash wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
I think, we got your argument the first 50 times you and phil751posted it, even if we don't share it. Can we now go on?

You might have but Prodos apparently didn't and since that was addressed to him I don't see the issue. Also a valid concern, not properly addressed is still cause for conversation just as much as someone saying how much they love the product over and over again.

@Prodos

Unless you are planning to exclude major US distributors or provide a lower discount than even GW does to it's distributors it's likely it'll be 20% off at the get go with cheaper shipping.

As such I'm also curious as to your wording that Scipio pointed out.

@ kroothawk... stop trying to stop us dude. we have more than enough right to question these guys on prices and practices as you do to ask them about what’s next and add you 2 cents in on what a mask should look like or what character fig should be released… you want to throw your money away blindly go for it… but I’m not dumb I see right through this thing. we’re not derailing this thing we are asking questions or presenting cross arguments to the method.
And if we can keep it civil like it has been for the most part this is healthy… Prodos needs to take the good with the bad. This is what forums are for we have the right to debate this and question it… right Kroothawk?

At this point Razide level is more expensive than Warhammer 40,000 Dark Vengeance

$130 Razide level: 22 Miniature, Unknown page rule book, 150 cards, 4 D20 2 rules sheets.

$99 Dark Vengeance: 48 miniatures, 168 page Rule book and assorted documentation, 2 Ruler sticks, Clear green range template and two circular area of effect templates, buncha D6s

Investment and return? Pre-order? Security? R&D?

Putting in the man hours so you don't have to.

Prestige worldwide? World wide World wide world wide

phil751 wrote:
I may yet renew my pledge depending on how the kick starter develops , if not i will certainly be looking out for it at retail. ultimately Prodos are going to make a lot more progress listening to some of the criticism than the blind fanbois praise.

Well Said... I'm not saying I wouldn't buy Warzone... I just won't support a KS that has no value and no production details.

Now Watch this
@Prodos
Will you be seeking U.S. distribution?
What medium will you cast your plastics in? Styrene, PvC, bendy plastic like Prepainted or Dust?
How much more will these starter boxes, 5 man boxes and characters be retail if this is the discounted Kickstarter price?

As a company with a business plan and a Kickstarter, I expect you’ll have an answer for all of this.
------------------------
bendy plastic ok with everyone... might be what they'll do we just don't know...some would be glad I asked...

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
while Prodos has to do.... their interpretative math to show us value?

Wow!

Prodos wrote:
Wow!

and still no Anwser to the real questions. Maybe they missed it?

lets ask again kids

Now Watch this

@Prodos
Will you be seeking U.S. distribution?
What medium will you cast your plastics in? Styrene, PvC, bendy plastic like Prepainted or Dust?
How much more will these starter boxes, 5 man boxes and characters be retail if this is the discounted Kickstarter price?

As a company with a business plan and a Kickstarter, I expect you’ll have an answer for all of this.

or you just going to ignore real questions and keep saying WOW... until alot more people drop this?

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
On Day 1 of Warzone, I backed at Cartel, giving them more than $400USD due to the high shipping... and I still genuinely don't know where all my value is. 90% of what I plan to pick up with that purchase were the items already in production, so yes... I was in essence, pre-ordering above MSRP.

yeah you are... your save nothin.

Side note... I wonder why such a good I.P. like Warzone keeps sinking? Oh thats right... I remember now.

@Prodos
Will you be seeking U.S. distribution? We have at least 1 channel to market planned, others may be bought in later
What medium will you cast your plastics in? Styrene, PvC, bendy plastic like Prepainted or Dust? Styrene
How much more will these starter boxes, 5 man boxes and characters be retail if this is the discounted Kickstarter price? Starter £34.99, Troop £12.99 Character on 30mm base £7.99

Re DV from GW. To have a force you personally can play (giving approx 45 min game) from us on KS you would need to spend £30 (and have a measuring instrument). Your friend will need to have the same. A DV game lasts at best 30 mins. To make a 1500pt GW 40K force using your DV force as a start point how much extra would you need to spend (£100, £200)? To get a WRZ force that plays for the same game length you could spend upto £35.

Prodos wrote:

None of the above includes the free cards included and limited again only to Kickstarter. If included at the appropriate RRP, you would be nearer or just over 20%
I can't comment on how our chosen FLGS will discount, but I would be suprised if they instantly discount by 17% or thereabouts.

And this is where the postage rears it's head again, at least for non-UK residents. Why? VAT. I'm not sure how Kickstarter works in terms of sales and taxes, or if you're VAT-registered, but for those of us outside of the UK, we typically have two options as far as retailers go:

1) we can buy from one of the regular ones, and have 10% off and free postage - as they use the difference between the VAT which they don't have to pay to HMRC for outside-UK orders to subsidise the postal costs.

2) we can buy from one of the other ones, who typically offer 10% off - because internet sales more or less have that as a minimum if they want to move product and who do charge postage, and request that they remove an additional 20% VAT from the invoice. Most places, (excepting Forge World), will do so.

Prodos wrote:
@Prodos
We have at least 1 channel to market planned, others may be bought in later
Styrene
Starter £34.99, Troop £12.99 Character on 30mm base £7.99

Re DV from GW. To have a force you personally can play (giving approx 45 min game) from us on KS you would need to spend £30 (and have a measuring instrument). Your friend will need to have the same. A DV game lasts at best 30 mins. To make a 1500pt GW 40K force using your DV force as a start point how much extra would you need to spend (£100, £200)? To get a WRZ force that plays for the same game length you could spend upto £35.

1 channel… Hmmm. That’s a little sketchy but ok.
“Styrene” quote the man… I love styrene that’s great.
Onto the DV vs Razide comment
I’m not talking points.. I get what you’re saying… GW is an investment it gets spendy… your version of warzone is smaller than 40K with less models and deeper game play. So to play longer, with less models I have to pay more… More than what GW charges for less stuff

I want everyone to pay attention to this:
in order to play longer, with less models I have to pay more… More than what GW charges for less stuff… the
More than what GW charges part should really get your attention.

@prodos… maybe you should up the model count a little at razide level an above, not do resins at all and do 100% styrene, and lower the price a touch…
Starter £34.99, Troop £12.99 Character on 30mm base £7.99

5 or 1 dollar savings, not really a whole lot passed onto the backers is it? in saving or extras...

long term this is just as expensive or more expensive than GW for less product pound for pound And we don't get the cards???? we gotta buy those Separate

@Prodos thankyou for answering my questions

@Prodos again
Will warzone be using templates? how will those be presented to the public?
if we buy off the self and say not the KS or we say want to expand into a new force how will we buy the cards and how much will they be for the 75 needed cards?

For me personally, it won't be any cheaper if I waited until this KS ends so I see no problem with this Kickstarter, not trying to meet anyones arguments, just sayin'. No one seemed to complain on CMONs "Guilds of Cadwallon" KS even though I'd say it was obvious it was just a way to gauge the interest in the Confrontation universe while making money on it....

@5deadly - Isn't the miniatures for skirmish games usually more expensive than those for mass battle games?

 5deadly wrote:
or you just going to ignore real questions and keep saying WOW... until alot more people drop this?

For sake mate, I'm surprised they're even engaging you (and have answered your questions by the by). So far the thread has, what, a couple people who wont be buying in at all and a few who are waiting for the actual release instead of going with the Kickstarter because they don't see the value in this (which is all well and cool and people need to stop treating this like some kind of freaking war crime). But you seem to be taking this whole thing rather seriously. It's like you were getting your tapdancing shoes ready to go grave-dance at the Kickstarter's funeral, but it's alive and well with a wife and 2.5 children. The project is backed by those of us who did feel that they were getting a good deal (as a Canadian, this is probably the best price I will ever be able to snag it at, £5 for shipping and no taxes added on top).

So let's put this to rest on all sides of the discussion:

1) People need to stop phrasing their criticisms and rebuttals as if their individual situation is the whole truth and nothing but. Some US players are right to wait things out if they are expecting %20 off of retail and cheap in-country shipping (or if they expect their LGS will carry it). Some UK players may be getting a good deal out of this between the inherent savings and free shipping (and I don't think they are paying VAT on it either, though I am probably wrong). Others outside of the US and UK are probably getting quite a bit out of this. Shipping is cheap (especially once you hit Dark Legion level), you are getting a bit off of retail (which is usually something we use to eat up the difference in shipping and taxes we tend to have to pay) and it is coming with a few extras. And of course, anyone who wants to be an early adopter probably doesn't care about the price as is.

2) People who think they are getting a deal need to stop getting in to heated debates against those who don't think they would (and vice versa). Nothing good will come of it. Let them have there word and if you (like me) are excited about the game, ignore them and talk about it instead. Turning this thread in to a scrum over pricing isn't going to help anyone. They've had their say, the value may increase over time (or it may not do so greatly). No need to comment on that or throw out snide remarks against those who chose not to back. The KS has already succeeded so there is no need for bad blood. Not backing this KS isn't "betraying the cause".

3) People who think Prodos are doing a bunch of things wrong and are screwing up big time. You likely only need to tell them once (perhaps even via email) and do so with a reasonable and well-worded message. Constantly poking them and prodding them on a public message board with leading questions and inflammatory remarks is only going to start a bloody flame war. If I were Prodos, I wouldn't even respond to that crap on a public message board (Kickstarter updates are probably a better forum for it anyways). But either way, they have been fairly patient with some fairly difficult people.

So again, if you aren't backing the project that's cool and I at least respect your right to do so. The KS is funded and seems to be doing well anyways and I already have most of what I want out of it. People need to stop replying to your posts as if you slapped 'em in the face (especially since many of you are just buying in during release). At the same time it would be appreciated if those not backing would stop insinuating that those who are backing are easily duped rubes who are paying more for less (some of us are getting a better deal due to peculiarities of where we live and how we tend to get gaming stuff, we can do our own math, thanks). People who are backing, don't feel the need to rebut every post by those who are not backing. It is not your mission to right all perceived wrongs on the Internet. You know what a better idea is? Continue discussing Warzone, continue discussing the updates and get chat going about the awesome stuff Prodos is doing. That is more positive than engaging in a firefight with people who don't see things the way you do.

And finally, to Prodos, your responsiveness to the community has been amazing, even though some of them have been inflammatory and trying. Don't lose your cool, and also, don't feel the need to respond to inflammatory posts in a thread. Take some time, take the questions they ask to heart and integrate them in to the FAQ and updates of the Kickstarter. You guys are doing a great job, but don't feel the need to drag yourselves in to the trenches here, too much time on forums can do bad things to ya.

Either way, everyone needs to calm the down and have a beer (or beverage of choice for those that don't imbibe). We've heard the criticisms, we've heard the rubutals, we know Prodos is listening, so let's get back to discussing Warzone again.

"1 channel… Hmmm. That’s a little sketchy but ok. "

No, it may not be OK. If they aren't offering their product through multiple distribution channels (Alliance, Efigures, ACD, GTS, etc) then it doesn't get played in the FLGS. It won't be sold at conventions other than through their one channel*. One can only buy this at a single source online then. That doesn't work in the US market as the points of critical mass for wide game play are missed. Maybe the point is to keep this game small for now or always, I dunno but I was until today assuming that this was going to be a widely available game. Now I'm concerned.

*Typically the mistake the UK manufacture will make is to sole source their US distribution to a company that is really a retailer that also offers "distribution" to other retailers. Needless to write that usually isn't a successful approach since retailers tend to have accounts with "real" distributors and they're loathe to tie up capital buying from other retailers who offer stuff usually at a lower discount.

Now, if the single channel is one of the real distributors like Alliance Games then all the above is pretty much null and void.

I do appreciate Prodos' answers though it is nice to see so much responsiveness even if sometimes the answers aren't the expected ones. Thank you.

 5deadly wrote:

1 channel… Hmmm. That’s a little sketchy but ok.
“Styrene” quote the man… I love styrene that’s great.
Onto the DV vs Razide comment
I’m not talking points.. I get what you’re saying… GW is an investment it gets spendy… your version of warzone is smaller than 40K with less models and deeper game play. So to play longer, with less models I have to pay more… More than what GW charges for less stuff

1 channel of distribution is perfectly acceptable if that channel is efigures, or warpath, or alliance; the main distributors in the USA.

If you wish to compare apples to apples, let's take a gbp12 set of 5 Warzone resin models and compare it to 5 GW resin/finecast models. 5 Wraithguard are $59.00. Would you be happier if Prodos sold a set of 5 resin model for $59.00 as well? In this example, GW is 300% more expensive. The smallest finecast dudes I can find are 5 chameleon skins for $24.75. 5 tiny resin guys for 33% more than larger Warzone figures.

You simply cannot compare miniatures made of differing materials. Hey, the figure you make, which is cast in used chewing gum, is far cheaper than the figure I make, which is cast in solid gold and buffed with moon-rock-dust.

I'm sure if Prodos gets the revenue, more and more kits will be made in plastic (higher upfront cost - 8 to 30k per sprue, dependent upon size of sprue and manufacturer - versus a few hundred for resin molds), thereby reducing cost of figures. Switching to plastic is what pretty much every company does when they can afford to as it means more affordable product for their customer. See: Perry miniatures, Warlord games, Wargames Factory,
Note the following:
- even GW now charges at least the same amount for a plastic chariot than a finecast chariot. ($40 finecast Beastman chariot vs $40 plastic demon chariots)
- GW also charges $25 for a single plastic miniature.
- GW owns their own plastic injection molding equipment, so the expense is far less than contracting out; yet their per-sprue retail cost increases at least once per year.

 5deadly wrote:

Prodos wrote:
@Prodos
We have at least 1 channel to market planned, others may be bought in later
Styrene
Starter £34.99, Troop £12.99 Character on 30mm base £7.99

Re DV from GW. To have a force you personally can play (giving approx 45 min game) from us on KS you would need to spend £30 (and have a measuring instrument). Your friend will need to have the same. A DV game lasts at best 30 mins. To make a 1500pt GW 40K force using your DV force as a start point how much extra would you need to spend (£100, £200)? To get a WRZ force that plays for the same game length you could spend upto £35.

1 channel… Hmmm. That’s a little sketchy but ok.
“Styrene” quote the man… I love styrene that’s great.
Onto the DV vs Razide comment
I’m not talking points.. I get what you’re saying… GW is an investment it gets spendy… your version of warzone is smaller than 40K with less models and deeper game play. So to play longer, with less models I have to pay more… More than what GW charges for less stuff

I want everyone to pay attention to this:
in order to play longer, with less models I have to pay more… More than what GW charges for less stuff… the
More than what GW charges part should really get your attention.

@prodos… maybe you should up the model count a little at razide level an above, not do resins at all and do 100% styrene, and lower the price a touch…
Starter £34.99, Troop £12.99 Character on 30mm base £7.99

5 or 1 dollar savings, not really a whole lot passed onto the backers is it? in saving or extras...

long term this is just as expensive or more expensive than GW for less product pound for pound And we don't get the cards???? we gotta buy those Separate

@Prodos thankyou for answering my questions

@Prodos again
Will warzone be using templates? how will those be presented to the public?
if we buy off the self and say not the KS or we say want to expand into a new force how will we buy the cards and how much will they be for the 75 needed cards?

I spent quite some time trying to decide if you are a troll or just an attention whore and how an answer to what you say (and more importantly how you say it) would fuel your little burlesque hate dance. But I think that instead of wasting my time to provide a constructed answer to your rant (after all many people have already done so, if you bothered having a look in the previous pages), I will just offer a piece of friendly advice: Just don't. Among all the people that have expressed their concerns about this KS, you are the one who stands out as the most aggressive and the most absurdly melodramatic. You want to flame this thread, for reasons you know, you are trying to troll Prodos, but we can see through that. So, please don't do it. You got your 1 page of thread attention, now it is time to drop it.

So, how about those Necromutants...

I personally would like if they got more armor on their torsos, they look a little bit too much like they are wearing some fetish-mayan-outfit right now, but if they are to be kept this bare chested, I'd like to see more traces of their biotech creation (stitches, tubes, visible though rudamentary cy-tech). Apart from that I love what we've seen this far! Not really decided anout the mohawk, I really like it but it might make them look like heavy metal mascots ...

To break that down here is the KS savings (note rulebook and freebies aren't included, this is just the discount on the product):

14.28% on Starters
7.62% on Troop Boxes
12.39% on Character (30mm)

And as has been noted between GW and other skirmish games it's not a fair comparison either way. A better comparison would be the PP starters which are similar in cost and provide a similar number of models. Although theirs are in plastic. Can't speak to % of playable force as we don't have the rules at this point for Warzone but it's a decent sized point force starter (25pts I believe) for Warmachine.

So the pricing isn't outrageous but it isn't likely to drum up major support in the US without a prebuilt community. Something a great kickstarter could create. That, and if the distributor isn't one of the big kids then there is even less point to back since it wouldn't take off here anyway as no one would sell it. And if it is one of the big kids then it makes more sense for US backers to hold off. Personally I love the look of a lot of the models. I'm likely to pick some up for other wargames when they are released if they are thru a US distributor. But I'm unlikely at this point to play the game as if distribution isn't handled well and the kickstarter doesn't create an overnight community I wouldn't be able to get games in anyway and there are already so many skirmish level games out there.

@ judgedoug
I’m really only referring to the what is going to be plastic though. I feel you on resin it’s way expensive no matter who’s selling it.

@ praetor24
Man I’m pointing out things I see and asking question… you’re the guy looking for the flaming troll whatever. It’s cool I’m not even mad. But like others…
now you’re telling me I can’t comment or criticize? I’m not flaming, trolling, or looking for attention… but I did want to bring a few things to other attention that might not have seen what I see. I got my answers, I made my point. That’s all I wanted to to.

@ Ronin_eX
Once again for the most part I’m done… there making styrene if imperial looks good I might buy some. I said that before… not looking to be Loyalist vs. Dissidence… I’m one who questions, researches and examines if I have doubts… my doubts have not subsided but I do have a better idea and I’m sure opened a few eyes.
But just because you or anyone else comes on and says “stop questioning the thing I currently like!” doesn’t mean I have to… I’m not flameing… matter of fact the responses to me are more flaming and trollish undertones than anything I’ve really said. You just don’t like my doubts or questions so you take it personal.
I understand and it’s ok. I’m done anyway for now…

They better make those trenchers DOPE!....

Guys, I think you need to understand that these people are just like you and everything they do is in yours and their own best interest. They charge what they do charge because that is what they have to charge to actually make money from it, whilst still giving you some kind of saving where they can. They are also not answering any questions until they have a solid, set in stone answer. So they will answer questions about plastic, when they know, they haven't even hit the target for that requirement yet! When they have, they will announce it (or when they are closer maybe).
They've been uploading stuff in real-time, as soon as something is okayed by Paradox, the backers are the first to know.

Just chill out, sit back and enjoy the ride. Follow Kickstarter if you can and you want to, but don't get aggressive about the fact you don't get the biggest saving (if any).

As for suppliers, again, when that is set in stone, they will say something. I don't understand where the assumption there even will be suppliers has come from. These things all take time!

So, chill out!

Here's some pics!

Remember kids, Warzone is a licenced property

so depending on the terms of the licence Prodos has either coughed up a fist full of cash to the IP owner that has to be paid for by the KS

or possibly is committed to passing over a % of turnover to the IP owner (in which case they won't get the full amount of the KS money to spend on the game)

either way there is less cash free to re-invest in discounts or freebies in order to build a bigger community

They want this to go well, the better it does the better for them (especially are far less able to cash out and sell the game than if the owned the IP)

 Hulksmash wrote:
To break that down here is the KS savings (note rulebook and freebies aren't included, this is just the discount on the product):

14.28% on Starters
7.62% on Troop Boxes
12.39% on Character (30mm)

Can you confirm with absolute certainty that in the next 49 days, nothing will change. Can you confirm that all kickstarters don't add anything in the last 49 days of their campaign?

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
To break that down here is the KS savings (note rulebook and freebies aren't included, this is just the discount on the product):

14.28% on Starters
7.62% on Troop Boxes
12.39% on Character (30mm)

Can you confirm with absolute certainty that in the next 49 days, nothing will change. Can you confirm that all kickstarters don't add anything in the last 49 days of their campaign?

Ah Kroot, you're adorable. Of course I can't. I can only go by how it is currently being run. Can you with absolute certainty tell me that the savings will change? Nope, you can't. We could get a few more freebies but they are requiring us to buy the full rulebook to get those so the value for us model hungry people drops.

It's an as stands obviously. I've said, I'm pretty sure multiple times, that at the current structure there is no incentive for US backers. The above shows that pretty clearly. The additional items could change naturally and possibly make those savings better. They could add additional items to offset the higher than expected retail price here in the US. I've pointed out that they don't even have to do it on a single box level. First box is 14.28% off, a second box gets you 20% off the costs of two, and a third box caps at 25%. The thing is they would have to restructure all their pledge levels and it's highly unlikely they would do that at this point. So only extra items will help eliminate the discount and if you are aren't doing the 3 box level right now you're only getting a single extra mini.

Maybe add-on's that discount based on quantity. But again they run the risk of their high pledge levels costing more since they didn't create any kind of additional cost break at the higher pledge levels over multiple lower pledge levels.

Basically their pledge levels leave little room for flexibility which means the only offsets for the barely below retail is free add-ons of which the level that is one full rulebook and a starter is a single miniature. That could increase and change but it'd have to be a significant one to draw people in. Even a company creating a massive kit and cadding while running their kickstarter managed closer to 33% off retail for multiple purchases (though it started at 25%). And he did it listening to feedback the entire way. And it doesn't have to hit that level, it just shouldn't cost more for the kickstarter than it does upon release.

Regarding the new mock-ups the look pretty good. I'd vote the cyber look over the punk or cyber punk myself.

Really like this cyber punk dude, where are these pictures from ?

 Hulksmash wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
To break that down here is the KS savings (note rulebook and freebies aren't included, this is just the discount on the product):

14.28% on Starters
7.62% on Troop Boxes
12.39% on Character (30mm)

Can you confirm with absolute certainty that in the next 49 days, nothing will change. Can you confirm that all kickstarters don't add anything in the last 49 days of their campaign?

Ah Kroot, you're adorable. Of course I can't. I can only go by how it is currently being run. Can you with absolute certainty tell me that the savings will change? Nope, you can't. We could get a few more freebies but they are requiring us to buy the full rulebook to get those so the value for us model hungry people drops.

The point is that I don't make ridiculous statements about the exact percentage of savings at the end of the kickstarter 49 days before it ends. Heck, even the Reaper kickstarter looked bad 49 days before the end.

Kickstarters are basically for people who want to support a project to become reality, because they believe in that project, esp at the beginning of the campaign. Over 500 people currently believe in that project. In the last 5 days of the campaign, I am sure several hundred discount hunters will joint just for the savings. Their time will certainly come, but it hasn't come yet.

 Hulksmash wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
To break that down here is the KS savings (note rulebook and freebies aren't included, this is just the discount on the product):

14.28% on Starters
7.62% on Troop Boxes
12.39% on Character (30mm)

Can you confirm with absolute certainty that in the next 49 days, nothing will change. Can you confirm that all kickstarters don't add anything in the last 49 days of their campaign?

Ah Kroot, you're adorable. Of course I can't. I can only go by how it is currently being run. Can you with absolute certainty tell me that the savings will change? Nope, you can't. We could get a few more freebies but they are requiring us to buy the full rulebook to get those so the value for us model hungry people drops.

Going on how other Kickstarters have performed, and the rate this is taking pledges (likely to hit £60000 pretty soon I think), yes of course it is going to include other developments and become a better deal.

And if enough people say they just want the models (and with no rulebook) then perhaps that pledge option will appear? I think the Mantic Kings of War kickstarter had some kind of similar pledge level, although I'm not sure how popular that would be TBH.

 Kroothawk wrote:
The point is that I don't make ridiculous statements about the exact percentage of savings at the end of the kickstarter 49 days before it ends. Heck, even the Reaper kickstarter looked bad 49 days before the end.

Kroot, can you show me where he made the claim that those percentages were at the end of the kickstarter?

 Pacific wrote:

And if enough people say they just want the models (and with no rulebook) then perhaps that pledge option will appear? I think the Mantic Kings of War kickstarter had some kind of similar pledge level, although I'm not sure how popular that would be TBH.

I just want the models with no rulebook!

 warboss wrote:
Kroot, can you show me where he made the claim that those percentages were at the end of the kickstarter?

What you get for your money is determined at the end of the campaign, right? Not after running 20% of the campaign time, right?
And all campaigns (except Avatars of War ) get much much better during the campaign, right?
With price discounts even happening in this campaign after 20% of the campaign time, right?

And always remember: Kickstarters are to fund a project not to drain it of funds. So there are economic limits, how far a project can please people only interested in big discounts.

My fondest hope is that the price stays reasonable and the Imperial line keeps its old WWI look.



In all fairness they are a start up using a license (I didn’t factor that and don’t start jumping up Like yeah didn’t think about that did ya!) and trying to bring back one of my favorite I.P.s
To look at myself a bit maybe I am being too hard on the KS. Maybe this is the best they can do right now.
I really loved these too… but this is the only art I could find…



we’ll see what happens… I did like my Imperial and Cybertronic... yeah looking at the old Images maybe I am being a little too hard

I do not get this thread, from the postage paranoia to everything else.

"Warzone failed a lot, this will too"

By that you mean what? that 4 unrelated wargame rules failed for various unrelated reasons? that the IP failed? that the 5th attempt to bring the IP on the table unrelated to all the others, is destined to fail because? should I assume linage curse or something been involved?

"why give the others free stuff (while they payed over what I will pay), I demand free stuff too"

I will break this down, postage is quite big in this one and affects more than the usual (that is it affects US) a single character model, does not cost much to produce, is nothing to ships and because character models cost much by definition looks like a nice drop in the price of shipping, especially for the US backers who, should be quite a few, why should UK backers be entitled to free stuff intended to make people that are on the fringe for postage fees, when they do not have to pay for it is beyond me, I assume its a good reason why Loka has everybody pay for postage, nobody cries for it, for the record non UK razide backers should be the ones complaining since they pay the same postage fee with dark legion (while DL has 3 boxes) and do not get a free figure.

"why is it so expensive/ not having a gazillion free models"

Good question, in contrast with the other kickstarters so far this is the first that has IP that is not their, so this is an extra cost, maybe they plan on giving more models after some goal they have planned, seriously I do not have an answer here, I do not know what they have in mind or their contracts and do not pretend I know, is 4.99 pound off from RRP worth it? 14, something% is not that bad, rivet wars had 10%, sedition wars had a bit more 11% relic knights I think they never mentioned RRP IIRC, would it benefit to add free extra troops you may or may not use? I quite like the extra models in all kickstarters I have participated, but only in dreadball they had a meaning, in all other they were just extra models, in any case that is purely personal to each one, now another question is is it worth waiting to get it for 20% off discount at the distributor? good question, they would never get in plastic with that attitude, if you love plastic so much, you would get a 20% off resin kit, lets be straight the KS is to turn the models in plastic and establish a community so far it seems it is in line with all other kickstarters in scope and prices.

For me it's not even so much about the incentives. I want good models. I bought the dreamforge stuff and it wasn't like a CMON kickstarter, you did not get a giant discount off of the retail price or tons of free stuff. You did get a small discount and some free stuff. The incentive behind backing that was that the models were jawdroppers done as a multi pose plastic kit. This would solve 90% of my issues.

I don't like the current non action poses, some people do. With a real mulitpose kit everybody could pose them however they want. plus you get rid of resin avoidance.

That's taste I guess, didn't like Dreamforge models, do not like multiposed, multipart models in general, prefer single posed as few parts as possible models with great dynamic poses and that does not mean jumping around.

I will agree some models previewed so far could do with a bit more spark in them, or a bit less in the brotherhood troopers case, but overall they do not look bad.