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 praetor24 wrote:

 c0un7_z3r0 wrote:
@praetor24 - It seems like I'm not the only one who found god.ra's little outrage to be quite unjustified.

Not at all I am not responding, because I simply deny to feed the troll and derail the thread completely.

On a different matter, I agree with your points about Laura Vestal, the reason I had not posted anything is because I am not a Brotherhood player and so I did not feel directly "involved". I think that the guys at Prodos should review their last two renders (Vestal and Machinators), because although they have potential as models, they are not quite there yet. I believe that some small tweaks here and there can bring the models 2 levels up. Lately though, Prodos seems much slower (compared to the beginning of this KS) to responding to the backers' feedback. And between that and receiving a pounding in the forums (their facebook forum is like that as well), if you express healthy concerns or a non-positive opinion for a model, I think that giving feedback is getting more and more difficult.

Dimos/Praetor24, we recieve feedback and apply it as we can (it was less than a week ago we changed the Hussars with that in mind only to upset some to a significant amount e.g Pyscotic storm). We have 10 or so different designs going now, all of which get exceedingly positive feedback and rage like fury in equal amounts.

To be honest, it has been very hard to understand what you wanted over the last 24 hours, except for more free stuff.

On the Kickstarter page I have answered your concise questions! Maybe you can share those on all the sites you have equally shared your rage and fury at us bringing out an EXTRA stretched goal for OPTIONAL bits (designed for the modeller/customiser/old schooler who love the Nazgaroth design etc.).

Prodos wrote:

 praetor24 wrote:

 c0un7_z3r0 wrote:
@praetor24 - It seems like I'm not the only one who found god.ra's little outrage to be quite unjustified.

Not at all I am not responding, because I simply deny to feed the troll and derail the thread completely.

On a different matter, I agree with your points about Laura Vestal, the reason I had not posted anything is because I am not a Brotherhood player and so I did not feel directly "involved". I think that the guys at Prodos should review their last two renders (Vestal and Machinators), because although they have potential as models, they are not quite there yet. I believe that some small tweaks here and there can bring the models 2 levels up. Lately though, Prodos seems much slower (compared to the beginning of this KS) to responding to the backers' feedback. And between that and receiving a pounding in the forums (their facebook forum is like that as well), if you express healthy concerns or a non-positive opinion for a model, I think that giving feedback is getting more and more difficult.

Dimos/Praetor24, we recieve feedback and apply it as we can (it was less than a week ago we changed the Hussars with that in mind only to upset some to a significant amount e.g Pyscotic storm). We have 10 or so different designs going now, all of which get exceedingly positive feedback and rage like fury in equal amounts.

To be honest, it has been very hard to understand what you wanted over the last 24 hours, except for more free stuff.

On the Kickstarter page I have answered your concise questions! Maybe you can share those on all the sites you have equally shared your rage and fury at us bringing out an EXTRA stretched goal for OPTIONAL bits (designed for the modeller/customiser/old schooler who love the Nazgaroth design etc.).

Let me make some things clear, because I think that my stance has been misunderstood.

First of all, you blame me for rage. It is true that my messages might have been read as a bit harsh, but this is mostly because I tried to keep them as short as possible. There was what could be understood as rage (I would have said frustration) in the comments that were responses to the people that attacked me inappropriately in their own comments and blamed me for asking for free stuff.

Secondly, I never asked for free stuff. You can check my previous posts here where I explain in detail my position or my older posts where I say that I am willing to pay extra for extra miniatures etc. My point was that since you switched the basic boxes to plastics, these extra bits (which appear to give basic options for the troops) should be included in these plastic kits. I have the right to believe that extra extra bits on this stage, where we do not know what there is in the boxes, make not much of a sense.

Thirdly, if you follow my whole posts' history on this thread you will see that I was always one of the first to update it with posts of your renders and news from the facebook forum and KS page. Most of the times, even before the "official" Prodos account updated this thread. People who check my KS projects' support history will notice that the WZ is the first one I support. This happened because I opened an account JUST for WZ. I simply did not bother for other miniature projects in the past. This shows how much I loved the game and how much I believed in your effort.

Finally, if you read my last post (the one immediately before this one), you will see that it is also updated with the "concise answers" you gave me about the nature of the new plastic kits, their production, etc. So, once again you blame me, just because you failed to get properly informed.

So, as a piece of advice, please, follow my posts better and do not get carried away by some of the posters that attacked me. Please, learn to distinguish between genuine supporters, haters and fanboys. As far as my record can show, I was anything but against you or your efforts to resurrect WZ, to the point that I have been blamed myself for being too much of an enthusiastic supporter of the project. To quote another user of DakkaDakka:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Wow, tables have turned. Praetor has been resoundingly in favor of this kickstarter. For him to now be accused of asking for "freebies" when he was hammering people earlier is kinda funny.

This, however, does not mean that I cannot have a different opinion on certain matters or not provide feedback that might not be to your liking. Blaming me for being a freeloader is not the right way to respond to my criticism.

A client explaining themself before a seller. Now that's a first.

Yet another reason why I don't bother with kickstarters - vitriolic upstart entrepreneurs aggressive towards prospective customers backed by rabid fanboys. Why even bother? I'd rather just wait for the product to hit the shelves than have to put up with this sort of behavior.

But the 4-piece upgrade packs for 6 pounds take the cake.

 -DE- wrote:
A client explaining themself before a seller. Now that's a first.

Yet another reason why I don't bother with kickstarters - vitriolic upstart entrepreneurs aggressive towards prospective customers backed by rabid fanboys. Why even bother? I'd rather just wait for the product to hit the shelves than have to put up with this sort of behavior.

But the 4-piece upgrade packs for 6 pounds take the cake.

Not sure where you got 4 piece from!

Kind of you to consider a 40-something an upstart, not sure that Ive been 'bitterly scathing' or aggressive!

Prodos wrote:

 -DE- wrote:
A client explaining themself before a seller. Now that's a first.

Yet another reason why I don't bother with kickstarters - vitriolic upstart entrepreneurs aggressive towards prospective customers backed by rabid fanboys. Why even bother? I'd rather just wait for the product to hit the shelves than have to put up with this sort of behavior.

But the 4-piece upgrade packs for 6 pounds take the cake.

Not sure where you got 4 piece from!

Kind of you to consider a 40-something an upstart, not sure that Ive been 'bitterly scathing' or aggressive!

I would greatly appreciate, though, if you give a look to my response. Because, honestly, the "freeloader" accusation is kind of hard to swallow and I would be glad if it was taken back.

Prodos wrote:

 -DE- wrote:
A client explaining themself before a seller. Now that's a first.

Yet another reason why I don't bother with kickstarters - vitriolic upstart entrepreneurs aggressive towards prospective customers backed by rabid fanboys. Why even bother? I'd rather just wait for the product to hit the shelves than have to put up with this sort of behavior.

But the 4-piece upgrade packs for 6 pounds take the cake.

Not sure where you got 4 piece from!

Kind of you to consider a 40-something an upstart, not sure that Ive been 'bitterly scathing' or aggressive!

Hard to debate with a faceless entity, but some of your representatives have been quite belligerent around the web. And throwing around words like "rage and fury" and such isn't exactly nice either. If you can't stand the heat, then kindly get out of the kitchen. These people are throwing money at a PROMISE you give them, not an actual product, and so have their doubts, further compounded by the awful presentation and the fuzzy nature of your KS, and have the right to express them and demand clarifications. Keep this in mind and learn to respond in a cool-headed manner instead of accusatory and/or inflammatory.

As for the bits pack comment, why, from your Kickstarter page. I quote:
"CYBERTRONIC:
- 1 grenade launcher,
- 1 heavy weapon for troop quads,
- 1 heavy weapon for Cuirassier Atilla
+ squad leader head."

Last time I checked, 1+1+1+1=4. And if this is not the case, and the pack contains multiples of any, or all, then kindly edit the picture to state so.

 praetor24 wrote:
£6 each packet? Are we kidding? This is more expensive than Forgeworld's kits. These kits should be free, especially now that they reached the plastics' goal.

And what about the added value that we would have gotten when we reached the plastics' goal? I mean we go from a superior material (resin) to an inferior (plastic) what for?

Resin is utter crap compared to proper injected plastic sprues IMO. I'd love them to make everything as such just like Dreamforge Games did in their kickstarter...

 praetor24 wrote:

Prodos wrote:

 -DE- wrote:
A client explaining themself before a seller. Now that's a first.

Yet another reason why I don't bother with kickstarters - vitriolic upstart entrepreneurs aggressive towards prospective customers backed by rabid fanboys. Why even bother? I'd rather just wait for the product to hit the shelves than have to put up with this sort of behavior.

But the 4-piece upgrade packs for 6 pounds take the cake.

Not sure where you got 4 piece from!

Kind of you to consider a 40-something an upstart, not sure that Ive been 'bitterly scathing' or aggressive!

I would greatly appreciate, though, if you give a look to my response. Because, honestly, the "freeloader" accusation is kind of hard to swallow and I would be glad if it was taken back.

I understood the following 'These kits should be free, especially now that they reached the plastics' goal.' as a request/demand for the products to be free. If that was not your intent I apologise for my misunderstanding.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 -DE- wrote:

Prodos wrote:

 -DE- wrote:
A client explaining themself before a seller. Now that's a first.

Yet another reason why I don't bother with kickstarters - vitriolic upstart entrepreneurs aggressive towards prospective customers backed by rabid fanboys. Why even bother? I'd rather just wait for the product to hit the shelves than have to put up with this sort of behavior.

But the 4-piece upgrade packs for 6 pounds take the cake.

Not sure where you got 4 piece from!

Kind of you to consider a 40-something an upstart, not sure that Ive been 'bitterly scathing' or aggressive!

Hard to debate with a faceless entity, but some of your representatives have been quite belligerent around the web. And throwing around words like "rage and fury" and such isn't exactly nice either. If you can't stand the heat, then kindly get out of the kitchen. These people are throwing money at a PROMISE you give them, not an actual product, and so have their doubts, further compounded by the awful presentation and the fuzzy nature of your KS, and have the right to express them and demand clarifications. Keep this in mind and learn to respond in a cool-headed manner instead of accusatory and/or inflammatory.

As for the bits pack comment, why, from your Kickstarter page. I quote:
"CYBERTRONIC:
- 1 grenade launcher,
- 1 heavy weapon for troop quads,
- 1 heavy weapon for Cuirassier Atilla
+ squad leader head."

Last time I checked, 1+1+1+1=4. And if this is not the case, and the pack contains multiples of any, or all, then kindly edit the picture to state so.

Your maths is correct, although it does say for 'troops squads' which is plural.
Thank you for picking out the typo on the 'squad leader head' which should and will shortly read 'squad leader heads'

Well I was going to wait for a break in the argument to say but since it seems to be dragging on a quick note on the machinators.

Love the art, don't really feel the renders live up to them. May just be the small picture but they seem a lot less intricate and detailed and the heads seem off.

On a side note how many bitz are on these extra sprues? I have to admit while I don't think they should be free I did also assume 4 bits based on the phrasing.

@prodos - even if praetor24 would have asked for some free swag I'd say you went over the line. And if you check praetor24's post log you will se the freeloder-accusation was unjust. Sure it's up to you how you treat your investors, but this is my opinion.

Prodos wrote:

 praetor24 wrote:

Prodos wrote:

 -DE- wrote:
A client explaining themself before a seller. Now that's a first.

Yet another reason why I don't bother with kickstarters - vitriolic upstart entrepreneurs aggressive towards prospective customers backed by rabid fanboys. Why even bother? I'd rather just wait for the product to hit the shelves than have to put up with this sort of behavior.

But the 4-piece upgrade packs for 6 pounds take the cake.

Not sure where you got 4 piece from!

Kind of you to consider a 40-something an upstart, not sure that Ive been 'bitterly scathing' or aggressive!

I would greatly appreciate, though, if you give a look to my response. Because, honestly, the "freeloader" accusation is kind of hard to swallow and I would be glad if it was taken back.

I understood the following 'These kits should be free, especially now that they reached the plastics' goal.' as a request/demand for the products to be free. If that was not your intent I apologise for my misunderstanding.

As I wrote before, my point was this:

Secondly, I never asked for free stuff. You can check my previous posts here where I explain in detail my position or my older posts where I say that I am willing to pay extra for extra miniatures etc. My point was that since you switched the basic boxes to plastics, these extra bits (which appear to give basic options for the troops) should be included in these plastic kits. I have the right to believe that extra extra bits on this stage, where we do not know what there is in the boxes, make not much of a sense.

But in any case, I think that a very quick look through my previous posts here and in the KS comments' section would have showed to you clearly what my stance was towards this KS. In fact, I can find many responses to my posts by you that are like: "Thank you Praetor24/Dimos". I consider myself as one among those who supported your effort from the very first moment, contributed in increasing the visibility of this KS and informing the community for its existence/updates. In fact, more than half of my posts in DakkaDakka are in the current thread and fully half of them are posts with your facebook updates. I do not accept to be blamed that I am "raging furiously" against the project or your team or being a "freeloader". At least the Prodos team should be better informed about the people that truly support their project and don't just scream in the forums "OMFG! These minis is so kool. Thanks Prodos"!

Isoulle wrote:
Love the art, don't really feel the renders live up to them. May just be the small picture but they seem a lot less intricate and detailed and the heads seem off.

I share the same opinion with you, though I cannot pinpoint exactly the "off-points" on the models. Shoulderpads and heads I would say, but it might be also the fact that they look less beefy and tech-rich compared to their concepts.


P.S.:

 -DE- wrote:
A client explaining themself before a seller. Now that's a first.

I am not explaining myself to the seller. I am just explaining why my pledge has gone from 125quid (with the potential to drop in another 100 at the beginning of April that I am getting paid) down to 1. And I am also explaining what kind of things might alienate a staunch supporter and make him look away. I still believe in the skills of the Prodos team, but my late treatment forces me to rethink whether they can distinguish their loyal supporters.

 c0un7_z3r0 wrote:
@prodos - even if praetor24 would have asked for some free swag I'd say you went over the line. And if you check praetor24's post log you will se the freeloder-accusation was unjust. Sure it's up to you how you treat your investors, but this is my opinion.

Thank you mate. I am glad that someone besides myself vouches for my stance on this. I appreciate it!

Isoulle wrote:
Well I was going to wait for a break in the argument to say but since it seems to be dragging on a quick note on the machinators.

Love the art, don't really feel the renders live up to them. May just be the small picture but they seem a lot less intricate and detailed and the heads seem off.

On a side note how many bitz are on these extra sprues? I have to admit while I don't think they should be free I did also assume 4 bits based on the phrasing.

Hi there, Machinators going through "small corrections , based on feedbacks" as we speak

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

Isoulle wrote:
Well I was going to wait for a break in the argument to say but since it seems to be dragging on a quick note on the machinators.

Love the art, don't really feel the renders live up to them. May just be the small picture but they seem a lot less intricate and detailed and the heads seem off.

On a side note how many bitz are on these extra sprues? I have to admit while I don't think they should be free I did also assume 4 bits based on the phrasing.

Hi there, Machinators going through "small corrections , based on feedbacks" as we speak

Glad to hear!

Curious about the brotherhood character as well. Any plans to redesign her to make her less T&A and more realistic or is that the final?

Isoulle wrote:

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

Isoulle wrote:
Well I was going to wait for a break in the argument to say but since it seems to be dragging on a quick note on the machinators.

Love the art, don't really feel the renders live up to them. May just be the small picture but they seem a lot less intricate and detailed and the heads seem off.

On a side note how many bitz are on these extra sprues? I have to admit while I don't think they should be free I did also assume 4 bits based on the phrasing.

Hi there, Machinators going through "small corrections , based on feedbacks" as we speak

Glad to hear!

Curious about the brotherhood character as well. Any plans to redesign her to make her less T&A and more realistic or is that the final?

She was already "adjusted", we should be able to post some pics later ;]

So plastic is going to be in house?

Hmm interesting

Can everyone take a breather, please? I know this is the internet, but gee-whiz, take it down a notch.

Warzone Resurrection wrote:Hi there, Machinators going through "small corrections , based on feedbacks" as we speak

I'm exited to see how they turn out, they got all the potential to kick huge amounts of ass!

Warzone Resurrection wrote:

Isoulle wrote:

Glad to hear!
Curious about the brotherhood character as well. Any plans to redesign her to make her less T&A and more realistic or is that the final?

She was already "adjusted", we should be able to post some pics later ;]

Sounds promising, will we see more of a graceful woman knight?

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Can everyone take a breather, please? I know this is the internet, but gee-whiz, take it down a notch.

Sound advice there, actually!

Stay on topic, and polite - please!

I was never into Warzone 'back in the day', but this one's got me very interested now.

I was backing Thon, but the lack of... much...going on there has caused me to Scipio/Azazelx my pledge there, and now I'm seriously contemplating backing this one.

Biggest issue is just not knowing much about... anything!

But... the models sure do look nice!

 Lockark wrote:

 Reecius wrote:
I am very excited for this! I LOVED this game back in the 90's, the mechanics were so fun, quick and intuitive. I hope the game mechanics remain largely the same. The models look great.

Too bad no Capitol in the first release, they were my favorite faction! I am sure they'll get to it though, if the game is popular.

They are going to do a capitol stater set once they hit the 80K stretch goal. Still still 30 plus days to go, I got a feeling they will be sooner rather then latter.


Their is even a preview of sorts for what will be in the capitol stater box.

Ah cool, thanks! I will have to look into that.

Man, I so hope the infantry still have Football Helmets and Baseball Caps! Haha, that was so over-the-top Amurica awesome! And the USA Belt Buckles on each guy, too. Haha, as a kid I cracked up at that (and still do as an adult). I hope that tongue-in-cheek but still tough looking aesthetic is still in place. I really loved that.

I seem to remember that it was suggested that when the troops went plastic we'd be getting more-figs-per-box. Was this incorrect, or is the "more" the addition of options like HW's heads, pads, etc?

Right now for about $30 USD (19 GBP pledge level), You get 10 plastic figs, which doesnt' seem like any better deal than warstore pricing. You do get a t-shirt and a pdf rules (which are available for a buck anyway), but if you aren't interested in a t-shirt, then I'm not sure where the value is.

Troop add-ons are 11.40 GBP for 5, which is $35 USD for 10 figs and you're in GW-price land. Obviously the deal gets better at the 30GBP level, but It's starting to look like this is going to be a game at GW levels of pricing.

Some of the pricing may seem that way, but the scale of the game does make a difference. You do need less miniatures to play Warzone.

Games of Warzone will probably average around 20-30 models max including vehicles, in 40k most armies require at least twice that just in infantry models alone.

Also if you look at some of the bigger models and Character models that will be cast in resin are much cheaper that GW models of the same status/stature.

Eilif wrote:

Also if you look at some of the bigger models and Character models that will be cast in resin are much cheaper that GW models of the same status/stature.

I pay $55 CAD for a plastic dred, well the Resin Bauhaus vulcan is 13.30 GBP (Witch ATM is $20-ish CAD)

Even after the price bumps up after this kick starter, that will still be MUCH cheaper then a model of similar size from GW.

Well the infantry are abit pricier, looking at the larger modles you can tell they are trying to give us fair prices on this stuff.

Eilif i think you can trade in the Tshirt for kredits and buy something else.

Cybertronic Eradicators. Price after the KS £39.

And I'm out.

What is this supposed to be? A shark? It looks absolutely not the way the first drawn previews looked like :(

Ok, I like those.

I love 'em! Not goofy looking like the originals, but still evoke the old imagery. I think the sleeker body helped (along with beefing the limbs up). Looks like I'll be grabbing one of these as well.

As two men entered, another one left!

I kind of like it too.

But not the price, either before or after the KS!

dat face.... =|

Otherwise it would be fine.

Not a fan of the head. The rest of the model is pretty solid but the saw edge of the mask on head is pretty horrible. They'd be better off smoothing it out.

@Lockart

Still wanna compare pricing with GW?