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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/05 01:37:13
Subject: Warrios of Chaos changes overview needed
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I think Lizardmen will get better. As they are only going to get a lot more options. MAYBE Salamanders will get a nerf. But I'm guessing Slann will be mostly unchanged, Saurus will be mostly unchanged, Steggadons will get a little better. And they'll add a bunch of stuff.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/05 01:37:40
Subject: Re:Warrios of Chaos changes overview needed
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Does anyone have any suggestions for the new rule book?
I'm thinking of something like (and this list might not be legal, but it's just a general idea):
Block of 50 warriors
Block of 50 Marauders
2 Gore Chariots
5 sleensh riders (I can't think of the exact name)
5 Marauder cavalry
Daemon Prince as a level 3 wizard (no idea what mark)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/05 01:49:16
Subject: Re:Warrios of Chaos changes overview needed
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Lord of the Fleet
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nwo6464 wrote:Does anyone have any suggestions for the new rule book?
I'm thinking of something like (and this list might not be legal, but it's just a general idea):
Block of 50 warriors
Block of 50 Marauders
2 Gore Chariots
5 sleensh riders (I can't think of the exact name)
5 Marauder cavalry
Daemon Prince as a level 3 wizard (no idea what mark)
Hmm not really sure having a block of 50 warriors is any good, might want to split them up (and of course with the more expensive marauders, maybe run them at a smaller unit). If you're using the cavalry as scouters and flankers, maybe get more slaanesh ones. Those guys are CRAZY FAST
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/05 03:25:04
Subject: Re:Warrios of Chaos changes overview needed
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Omnipotent Lord of Change
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bigyounk wrote:Played Bretonians, used 3 blocks of Warriors, a warshrine, Knights, Lvl 4 Nurgle Lord and a few other characters. The list is very close to what I won round 2 of the last 'Ard boyz tourney. Biggest change was the dumping of the CRAPTASTIC Tzeentch magic in favor of Nurgle. Due to the point increase of the Warriors I had to dump my chariot. I got charged, I broke and ran away, end of game.
Halberd warriors under the last book were the best core troopers in the game, but have they changed all that much? No stat changes of any kind, lost Will of Chaos (but a BSB makes that largely negligible), slightly different MoN (ha - like anybody took that!), and like a 7% increase in points over a unit? Kr0n halberd warrior costs you 19 points now, and a Tizz shield warrior is like 17? Pretty miniscule to me, and still leaves them a brutal core trooper well worth the points. I would guess the bigger loss to warriors is their available magic standards. 25 points max cuts out the Razor Standard (not that I thought it was worth the points  ), but clearly more important is no more Rapturous Standard (how was that NOT busted in the face?) and no more Banner of Rage + Not Khorne. Now I'm guessing it's just BoEF or Discipline left. Red_Zeke wrote:And with a Tzeentch lord kitted for foot blocks (3+ ward with re-roll 1s and a stubborn cap), you oughta hold against just about anything. Once they stick, blast that Nurgle sorceror's vortex through their blocks- that'll ruin their day pretty dang quick.
Yea, my thought was that having those warriors hold may have been more dependent upon gear that isn't available any longer - Rapturous Standard, Divine Greatness via Warshrine + Favor - than inherent awesome cheapness of warrior blocks themselves. I think you're right on with that uber-stubborn lord RZ, taking a page out of the Beasts play book  I used a DP under the last book to lock stuff down with Stubborn until my blocks could roll in. Given that the new DP is Unbreakable this seems even better! Also, he's far killier by himself - Salvage
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/02/05 03:27:52
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/05 06:41:26
Subject: Warrios of Chaos changes overview needed
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Looking forward to trying out the new Daemon Prince - if nothing else, with wings he's got a frightening threat range (average of around 20" on the charge right over everything and into some part of the opponents army that he doesn't want to get charged).
Back that up with a couple chariots and a Chimera or two and you've got a lightning fast front strike that gives time for the rest of your army to get into mauling range.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/05 08:24:29
Subject: Warrios of Chaos changes overview needed
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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DukeRustfield wrote:I think Lizardmen will get better. As they are only going to get a lot more options. MAYBE Salamanders will get a nerf. But I'm guessing Slann will be mostly unchanged, Saurus will be mostly unchanged, Steggadons will get a little better. And they'll add a bunch of stuff.
Every 8th book has been pretty well-balanced before, with the really overpowered stuff getting nerfed to a reasonable level. I expect major nerfs to Slann given their pretty ridiculous power right now (including changes to some disciplines), nerf to salamanders, buff to stegadons, buff to Teradon riders, slight point increase for Saurus Warriors, a nerf to Cold Blooded and, of course, major revamp to magic items.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/05 08:35:14
Subject: Warrios of Chaos changes overview needed
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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So, anyone else manage to find this ridiculous combo yet?
Lord, MoT, Scaled Skin Mutation, Third Eye of Tzeentch, Dawnstone, Armor of Destiny, Sword of Swift Slaying, shield, and a mount.
Unless I borked something here, that's a Chaos Lord sporting a rerollable 1+ armor save with a 3+ ward that rerolls 1's, and an ASF magic weapon.
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IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/05 08:46:36
Subject: Warrios of Chaos changes overview needed
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Sigvatr wrote:DukeRustfield wrote:I think Lizardmen will get better. As they are only going to get a lot more options. MAYBE Salamanders will get a nerf. But I'm guessing Slann will be mostly unchanged, Saurus will be mostly unchanged, Steggadons will get a little better. And they'll add a bunch of stuff.
Every 8th book has been pretty well-balanced before, with the really overpowered stuff getting nerfed to a reasonable level. I expect major nerfs to Slann given their pretty ridiculous power right now (including changes to some disciplines), nerf to salamanders, buff to stegadons, buff to Teradon riders, slight point increase for Saurus Warriors, a nerf to Cold Blooded and, of course, major revamp to magic items.
Slann is just a magic version of a DP in this book. They will also nerf magic items for Lizardmen and that will matter a lot.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/05 11:07:40
Subject: Warrios of Chaos changes overview needed
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Vaktathi wrote:So, anyone else manage to find this ridiculous combo yet?
Lord, MoT, Scaled Skin Mutation, Third Eye of Tzeentch, Dawnstone, Armor of Destiny, Sword of Swift Slaying, shield, and a mount.
Unless I borked something here, that's a Chaos Lord sporting a rerollable 1+ armor save with a 3+ ward that rerolls 1's, and an ASF magic weapon.
Assuming a disc, because fly, that's 385 points. Not bad, I was thinking a deamon prince with chaos armor, Helm of many eyes, scaled skin, daemon of nurgle amd daemonic flight. 1+,5++ with minus 1 to hit in combat, isn't too shabby but your idea might be better. Also, Putting an exhalted hero on a demonic mount nets him an extra toughness and wound, fair trade for los on a battle standard maybe? (unless you have skullcrushers). Similar with Juggernauts, on first read I saw that they lost a toughness but missed that they picked up a wound. maybe the skullcrushers are worth the extra 15 points after all.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/05 11:10:19
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/05 14:54:56
Subject: Warrios of Chaos changes overview needed
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Inspiring Icon Bearer
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I played against the new book last night. He had DP, 3 chimera, throgg, trolls out the yin yang, some hounds, 2 chariot and a hell cannon.
I played TK. the DP didn't make it to combat got hit with both skullapults on turn 1. He didn't take the dragon bane gem, and failed the charmed shield save. The chimera can't stand up to the casket.
The one that got into the hierotitan beat on each other for 2 turns before the titan dropped it, I got bubble smiting, and bubble soul blight off.
One unit of trolls got stuck on the warsphinx and didn't really do much. the one with throgg, got into my big old block of 50 warriors, death mage, king and necrotect, and I walked away with 12 left and the king at the end. brutal few rounds of combat.
The chariots did ok, it beat up my horse archers like expected pretty good. My necro knights got one into with one of them and dropped it but only had 4 wounds left when it fought the other one, and that chariot escaped with a 1 wound left and had to put 40 archer shots into it to finish it....
The warhounds with upgrades are awesome, got into both skullapults, and casket and on last turn tried to press it's luck on the hierotitan and got tstomped to death.
I can really see that army wrecking armies without a lot of ld based attacks. and ranged fire.
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3000
4000 Deamons - Mainly a fantasy army now.
Tomb Kings-2500 Escalation League for 2012
href="http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/311987.page ">Painting and Modeling Blog
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/05 18:17:20
Subject: Warrios of Chaos changes overview needed
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
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I'm liking a cheap daemon prince of nurgle with flight and a single magic level to get the signature spell.
A direct damage template attack that denies armour saves cast on a 7+ hitting the flank of a big horde sounds good on paper and aside from buying a sorcerer a magic carpet it's the cheapest way to get that spell the mobility it really needs to work. Plus it's a daemon prince so it can still fight like a dude. Automatically Appended Next Post: Somebody pointed this out at the pub the other night:
Empire swordsman is 7 points with shield, light armor, and ws4
Marauder is 8 points with shield, light armor, ws4 and i4
Sounds about right to me in that case.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/05 21:13:29
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/05 21:36:48
Subject: Warrios of Chaos changes overview needed
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Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh
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Rob451 wrote:
Somebody pointed this out at the pub the other night:
Empire swordsman is 7 points with shield, light armor, and ws4
Marauder is 8 points with shield, light armor, ws4 and i4
Sounds about right to me in that case.
Minus one part: those Empire swordsmen are backed up by a lot of artillery that will weaken many opponents before they get to that swordsmen line. The points comparison is only valid if you take the entire army context into play, not just including one unit vs another. The army synergy is important. That said, a middle ground between old cost and new would have been appropriate: old cost was ~6 with GW, MoK and is now 11...an 8 with those two things would have been sufficient and appropriate. Maybe even 9. 10 or 11? No way.
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Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/05 21:45:43
Subject: Warrios of Chaos changes overview needed
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Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets
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timetowaste85 wrote:Rob451 wrote:
Somebody pointed this out at the pub the other night:
Empire swordsman is 7 points with shield, light armor, and ws4
Marauder is 8 points with shield, light armor, ws4 and i4
Sounds about right to me in that case.
Minus one part: those Empire swordsmen are backed up by a lot of artillery that will weaken many opponents before they get to that swordsmen line. The points comparison is only valid if you take the entire army context into play, not just including one unit vs another. The army synergy is important. That said, a middle ground between old cost and new would have been appropriate: old cost was ~6 with GW, MoK and is now 11...an 8 with those two things would have been sufficient and appropriate. Maybe even 9. 10 or 11? No way.
Army synergy is not a good reasoning tactic.
Does it work at times? Sure it does, but at the same time if you have an army with units that are half the cost of the other and yet far more effective, we can tell that unit is far beyond the usefulness of it.
One needs to take context of the greater game as well, as having a vacuum where you focus entirely on the army, you could end up with Chosen that cost 8 points because it works in "Synergy" with the army.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/05 22:34:09
Subject: Warrios of Chaos changes overview needed
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Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh
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ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Army synergy is not a good reasoning tactic.
Does it work at times? Sure it does, but at the same time if you have an army with units that are half the cost of the other and yet far more effective, we can tell that unit is far beyond the usefulness of it.
One needs to take context of the greater game as well, as having a vacuum where you focus entirely on the army, you could end up with Chosen that cost 8 points because it works in "Synergy" with the army.
It's a better reasoning tactic than arguing "this unit is the same point cost for the same basic skills as this other army, so it's fair they're the same cost". Neither unit's special rules come into play for the argument here (detachments/marks, in this case), nor do what they work with. One unit is a melee unit backed up by other melee units and a small amount of artillery. The other is backed up by melee, shooting, and potentially lots of artillery. One can have support from 3 unique magic lores and a couple from the main book, the other unit can be supported by all the main book lores, but no unique lores. These units do not exist in a vacuum-what they work together with should determine their point cost. Comparing a single unit to a single unit from separate books is laughable. They may have identical roles in said vacuum, but the other aspects of their respected armies alter what their roles will be. And anybody who focused entirely on an army is not going to say "Chosen should cost 8 points"-that's a completely ridiculous statement. Chosen have superior stat-lines to most of the other man-sized infantry in their own book, and have additional special rules and abilities that other units in their own book can't have: thus, they have points that reflect it. Basing a unit's cost on the other units in the book is a far more accurate way to determine point costs. After all, and I'm honestly asking for a correction if I'm wrong because I'm not 100% sure, TK skellies cost 4ppm, while VC skellies cost more-I don't remember the exact amount for VC, which is the problem. They're the exact same unit, right? But their interactions with the rest of their books make the difference. VC skellies can gain marches due to vampires, TK can't. TK can have have WS increases from characters, VC cannot. A unit's interaction within its own book is needed to make a fair cost. It's not the only part, as comparison to other books is needed for a general idea (swordsmen costing 50 while marauders costing 5 would be pants-on-head stupidity).
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Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/05 22:55:43
Subject: Re:Warrios of Chaos changes overview needed
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Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets
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TK skellies cost 4ppm, while VC skellies cost more-I don't remember the exact amount for VC, which is the problem. They're the exact same unit, right?
TK skellies are 4 ppm, but VC skellies are 5.
However that argument falls apart with this comparison because VC skeletons come already equipped with Light Armor, equipping them with LA TK skellies are the exact same cost.
If you wanted a better comparison, compare GG with TG, as both are the same equivalents of each other with the same cost, but GG come equipped with heavy armor instead and they have different options for wargear.
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2013/02/05 22:59:48
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 00:54:41
Subject: Warrios of Chaos changes overview needed
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Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh
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Thanks-I don't have either undead book, so I was really firing from the hip there.
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Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 02:57:39
Subject: Re:Warrios of Chaos changes overview needed
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Inspiring Icon Bearer
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ZebioLizard2 wrote: TK skellies cost 4ppm, while VC skellies cost more-I don't remember the exact amount for VC, which is the problem. They're the exact same unit, right?
TK skellies are 4 ppm, but VC skellies are 5.
However that argument falls apart with this comparison because VC skeletons come already equipped with Light Armor, equipping them with LA TK skellies are the exact same cost.
If you wanted a better comparison, compare GG with TG, as both are the same equivalents of each other with the same cost, but GG come equipped with heavy armor instead and they have different options for wargear.
And VC healing is far and beyond what TK can do. So the synergy is not exactly fair comparison. But then again My Will Be done, may be seen as the equalizer.
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3000
4000 Deamons - Mainly a fantasy army now.
Tomb Kings-2500 Escalation League for 2012
href="http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/311987.page ">Painting and Modeling Blog
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 03:02:56
Subject: Re:Warrios of Chaos changes overview needed
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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If having a decent WS meant something it might.
Generally, having a WS between 5 and 8 is generally meaningless.
All it really means is that Chaos Warriors arn't hitting the Skeletons on 3s. Something they don't need to chew through them.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 03:51:28
Subject: Re:Warrios of Chaos changes overview needed
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Hacking Proxy Mk.1
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ZebioLizard2 wrote: TK skellies cost 4ppm, while VC skellies cost more-I don't remember the exact amount for VC, which is the problem. They're the exact same unit, right?
TK skellies are 4 ppm, but VC skellies are 5.
However that argument falls apart with this comparison because VC skeletons come already equipped with Light Armor, equipping them with LA TK skellies are the exact same cost.
If you wanted a better comparison, compare GG with TG, as both are the same equivalents of each other with the same cost, but GG come equipped with heavy armor instead and they have different options for wargear.
Units in an army book are balanced against other units in that army book, and then the book is balanced against other books, you can't compare one unit in a vacuum against another unit from a different book.
Yes GG get heavy armour over TG but there is a TK spell that lets TGs killing blow get off on a 5.
VC zombies are 3 whole points, zombies can do nothing more than stand there an die, but compared to skaven they are over priced for that job. Compared to Empire they are only 2 points less than a spearman which can actually fight, but because of the synergistic nature of 8th edition books 3 points is balanced.
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Fafnir wrote:Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 05:03:55
Subject: Re:Warrios of Chaos changes overview needed
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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jonolikespie wrote:Units in an army book are balanced against other units in that army book, and then the book is balanced against other books, you can't compare one unit in a vacuum against another unit from a different book.
Yeah, this. We compare units all the time as a benchmark, but really it's about whether the entire book is balanced to another book. The only way individual units will ever be balances if they are the same. And you don't need 12 army books for that, you only need 1.
WoC in this incarnation have taken a step away from ultra-cheap hard-hitting horde units. And have stepped more in the elite infantry/cavalry/charriot and monsters. That's where the book is. You can't start pulling some units around without it affecting others.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 09:12:16
Subject: Warrios of Chaos changes overview needed
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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I have yet to see a clear direction where the book is going though, at first glance, I'd say it's heading toward monsters / monstrous infantry.
Marauder have been overnerfed and are now too expensive for what they bring, Chaos Warriors are still solid and overall, the bigger guys got a buff.
Then again, as others already stated, WoC seem to be even easier to defeat now given that their numbers went down again. You will be outflanked in no time.
Overall, I'm interested in seeing how they fare at tournaments, but overall, in regards to how 8th works, they lost a lot of of their comp power and are now, imo, mid tier at best.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 09:56:54
Subject: Warrios of Chaos changes overview needed
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Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets
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Sigvatr wrote:I have yet to see a clear direction where the book is going though, at first glance, I'd say it's heading toward monsters / monstrous infantry.
Marauder have been overnerfed and are now too expensive for what they bring, Chaos Warriors are still solid and overall, the bigger guys got a buff.
Then again, as others already stated, WoC seem to be even easier to defeat now given that their numbers went down again. You will be outflanked in no time.
Overall, I'm interested in seeing how they fare at tournaments, but overall, in regards to how 8th works, they lost a lot of of their comp power and are now, imo, mid tier at best.
I'm going to say "Elite Infantry/Monsters". Seeing as since they split the three chaos, I would say beastmen would be "Weak, plentiful army backed by unique beasts", chaos as elite with some chaff, and daemons as a mixture.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 13:44:23
Subject: Warriors of Chaos changes overview needed
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Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos
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I'm with Zebio on this one, I think. The marks are going to make it more efficient to try MSU style and combined armed shenanigans than to make a big ol' huge lump of something.
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“It was in lands of the Chi-An where she finally ran him to ground. There she kissed him deeply as he lay dying, and so stole from him his last, agonized breath.
On a delicate chain at her throat, she keeps it with her to this day.”
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 14:22:51
Subject: Warriors of Chaos changes overview needed
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Lord of the Fleet
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Red_Zeke wrote:I'm with Zebio on this one, I think. The marks are going to make it more efficient to try MSU style and combined armed shenanigans than to make a big ol' huge lump of something.
Return of the MSU?
What is this, 7th edition?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 15:17:09
Subject: Warriors of Chaos changes overview needed
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Overall, the old 7th edition books will probably remain at the top of the heap until they are updated for 8th, at which time they'll all tumble down to mid-tier. GW seems to be paring everything down - while it would be nice to see some of the older, weaker armies brought up, I think that if they are working at removing some of the degenerate combos that will only help some of the weaker, older books as well.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 15:24:05
Subject: Warriors of Chaos changes overview needed
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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RuneGrey wrote:Overall, the old 7th edition books will probably remain at the top of the heap until they are updated for 8th, at which time they'll all tumble down to mid-tier. GW seems to be paring everything down - while it would be nice to see some of the older, weaker armies brought up, I think that if they are working at removing some of the degenerate combos that will only help some of the weaker, older books as well.
That's what I think too. I just wonder why they start with WoC and not with Lizardmen.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 15:36:36
Subject: Warriors of Chaos changes overview needed
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Sinister Shapeshifter
The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.
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RuneGrey wrote:Overall, the old 7th edition books will probably remain at the top of the heap until they are updated for 8th, at which time they'll all tumble down to mid-tier. GW seems to be paring everything down - while it would be nice to see some of the older, weaker armies brought up, I think that if they are working at removing some of the degenerate combos that will only help some of the weaker, older books as well.
The 8th ed books are all good, barring ogres, but the 7th ed books are balanced for a different edition. That will always mean that there will be advantages in each book. 8th ed books have MC, whilst 7th ed have more magic items and tricks.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 16:16:55
Subject: Warriors of Chaos changes overview needed
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Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets
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Sigvatr wrote: RuneGrey wrote:Overall, the old 7th edition books will probably remain at the top of the heap until they are updated for 8th, at which time they'll all tumble down to mid-tier. GW seems to be paring everything down - while it would be nice to see some of the older, weaker armies brought up, I think that if they are working at removing some of the degenerate combos that will only help some of the weaker, older books as well.
That's what I think too. I just wonder why they start with WoC and not with Lizardmen.
Because they seem to be targeting those with powerful spells in the lores they already possess. Generally I just think they are trying to update every army with unique magic to their own.
With the exception of wood elves, because they don't know what to do with em now.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/02/06 16:21:00
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 16:19:54
Subject: Warriors of Chaos changes overview needed
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Omnipotent Lord of Change
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kenshin620 wrote: Red_Zeke wrote:I'm with Zebio on this one, I think. The marks are going to make it more efficient to try MSU style and combined armed shenanigans than to make a big ol' huge lump of something.
Return of the MSU?
What is this, 7th edition?
Hopefully a revitalization of 8th edition! There are some crazy individuals keeping the dream of engaging in combat using smaller units moved in a tactical (dare we say strategic O_O) manner alive ... even if they're predominantly playing 7E elf books when they do so - though I know of some Empire and Dwarf players doing the same. 8E has an extremely strong kneejerk towards Lumphammer, but it's clearly not the only way to play, though it does bully out other styles something fierce.
- Salvage
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/06 16:22:52
Subject: Warriors of Chaos changes overview needed
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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ZebioLizard2 wrote: Sigvatr wrote: RuneGrey wrote:Overall, the old 7th edition books will probably remain at the top of the heap until they are updated for 8th, at which time they'll all tumble down to mid-tier. GW seems to be paring everything down - while it would be nice to see some of the older, weaker armies brought up, I think that if they are working at removing some of the degenerate combos that will only help some of the weaker, older books as well.
That's what I think too. I just wonder why they start with WoC and not with Lizardmen.
Because they seem to be targeting those with powerful spells in the lores they already possess. Generally I just think they are trying to update every army with unique magic to their own.
With the exception of wood elves, because they don't know what to do with em now.
Wood Elves suffer from not fitting to 8th at all with their MSU / guerilla warfare tactics. Doesn't help that your main cc troops have 0 ranks and thus fight vs. a static combat disadvantage of -3.
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