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Remember when assassins weren't part of the inquisition? Peppridge Farm remembers.

I dunno, s/t 4 doesn't too outlandish for someone who died but still pops out of the warp now and then for a crusade.

I also think they should introduce a faith mechanic that doesn't get worse the more squads you bring to a fight.

 FerrusFair wrote:
Remember when assassins weren't part of the inquisition?

Yes I do. You used to be able to ally them into any imperial army. I'd like that to return.

I dunno, s/t 4 doesn't too outlandish for someone who died but still pops out of the warp now and then for a crusade.

Presumed to have died. And she does not pop out from warp. Celestine is not necessarily any more 'magical' than Yarrick.

When, in the fluff, a character appears out of nowhere, wind a battle for their side, and disappears back to nowhere, 99% of the time that person or entity came from the warp. This is doubly true for characters (or space marines chapters) that are supposed to be dead. Draigo does it. Sanguinor does it. legion of the damned do it. Daemons do it. Chaos characters do it. Every time GW writes mysterious happenings, Warp did it. Following the pattern, it seems safe to conclude that Saint Celestine does it.

So because you did not know where exactly she came from, you conclude she must have come from warp... okay. Does this apply to western films too? Do mysterious lone gunmen who appear from nowhere to save the town come from warp too? I think it is just a method of dramatic storytelling.

Also, she mysteriously appeared from nowhere exactly once; at Heletine after thought to be killed in explosion earlier at Forrax. Before that she seemed to hang around with other Battle Sisters quite comfortably in the realspace.

And this discussion brings us back to the topic of the thread. I absolutely do not want any blatantly 'magical' faith effects. Nothing that cannot be considered mere luck or psychology.

Ugh, to many people really wanting inquisition in with Sisters. I just can't agree with that on any level that makes sense because it was a bad shoehorn in of another faction in order to lessen how many people could take third edition assassins.

Whats wrong with making it a full Adeptus Ministorum (Ecclesiarchy) book? Go all the way with adding saints, priests, prophets, frateris masses, redemptionists, iron evangelists, crusaders, banishers, missionaries, Arch-Exorcist, Black Clerics, Drusians, Vitrian Covenant, relics of saints, purified weaponry. You know, the things Sisters and the Adeptus Ministorum actually detail? Faith, burning, and purity. Not the inquisition!

Cut the Witch hunters and the Inquisition entirely, don't need it.

 Crimson wrote:
So because you did not know where exactly she came from, you conclude she must have come from warp... okay. Does this apply to western films too? Do mysterious lone gunmen who appear from nowhere to save the town come from warp too? I think it is just a method of dramatic storytelling.

If that Western was set in the Warhammer 40k universe and was written by GW staff (like every other example I cited), then yes, that would be a reasonable assumption.

 Crimson wrote:
Also, she mysteriously appeared from nowhere exactly once; at Heletine after thought to be killed in explosion earlier at Forrax. Before that she seemed to hang around with other Battle Sisters quite comfortably in the realspace.

And this discussion brings us back to the topic of the thread. I absolutely do not want any blatantly 'magical' faith effects. Nothing that cannot be considered mere luck or psychology.

I don't agree with the "Faith is not magical" thing myself - faith is explicitly shown to have supernatural powers in the 40kverse numerous times. The Warp is literally emotions made manifest and given the power to affect realspace, and faith is one of the strongest emotions in the Warhammer 40kverse. That said, since you're the one writing it, all I can do is politely disagree.

Whatever you do with faith, make it something that doesn't get objectively less useful the more squads you bring to the table.

I don't agree with the "Faith is not magical" thing myself - faith is explicitly shown to have supernatural powers in the 40kverse numerous times. The Warp is literally emotions made manifest and given the power to affect realspace, and faith is one of the strongest emotions in the Warhammer 40kverse. That said, since you're the one writing it, all I can do is politely disagree.

Whatever you do with faith, make it something that doesn't get objectively less useful the more squads you bring to the table.

He's not writing it. Happygolucky is.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

I don't agree with the "Faith is not magical" thing myself - faith is explicitly shown to have supernatural powers in the 40kverse numerous times. The Warp is literally emotions made manifest and given the power to affect realspace, and faith is one of the strongest emotions in the Warhammer 40kverse. That said, since you're the one writing it, all I can do is politely disagree.

Whatever you do with faith, make it something that doesn't get objectively less useful the more squads you bring to the table.

He's not writing it. Happygolucky is.

Oh. Well, there's me looking smart. /facepalm

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Whats wrong with making it a full Adeptus Ministorum (Ecclesiarchy) book? Go all the way with adding saints, priests, prophets, frateris masses, redemptionists, iron evangelists, crusaders, banishers, missionaries, Arch-Exorcist, Black Clerics, Drusians, Vitrian Covenant, relics of saints, purified weaponry. You know, the things Sisters and the Adeptus Ministorum actually detail? Faith, burning, and purity. Not the inquisition!

Cut the Witch hunters and the Inquisition entirely, don't need it.

Agreed.


As for faith, I didn't mean to say that there absolutely cannot be anything 'magical' in it, I just prefer it to be so that it is kinda vague so that it can be interpreted either way. Nothing blatantly magical that makes sisters psykerish.

Ok thanks for the replies keep 'em coming...

So I assume people want a more solid Faith points system?

Currently progress is underway I have started the codex and I have been writing the rules for faith points as I believe they are what all units are going to use in this codex.

On the note of Inquisitors, well here is the dilemma in my mind:

Yes Inquisitors would be good to bring back but im not sure because of Codex GK have them now and the Codex GK is the inqisition and sisters are the Ecclesiarchy so im not sure, for the moment I dont think I will add inquisitors, but if all gos well for this codex maybe I will. Im not sure about them what do you all think?

Also Exorcists: I was thinking on making them 190pts and AV 12/11/10 but it would contain the Fast rule and the missiles would be barrage Str 6 AP4, Barrage, small blast, Heavy D6 with a range of 30"? Plus you can add vehicle upgrades to them, also I was thinking on a one shot special type of missile fire to add to them but im not sure, so what do you all think?

Cheers to all comments

So..

Exorcist down from 13/11/10, S8 AP1, 48" range to that and points go up?

Even if it's D6 blasts... you just removed the only long range anti-tank and turned it into anti-infantry which have plenty really.

 happygolucky wrote:
Ok thanks for the replies keep 'em coming...

So I assume people want a more solid Faith points system?

Yes. Yes. All of my yes.

Currently progress is underway I have started the codex and I have been writing the rules for faith points as I believe they are what all units are going to use in this codex.

On the note of Inquisitors, well here is the dilemma in my mind:

Yes Inquisitors would be good to bring back but im not sure because of Codex GK have them now and the Codex GK is the inqisition and sisters are the Ecclesiarchy so im not sure, for the moment I dont think I will add inquisitors, but if all gos well for this codex maybe I will. Im not sure about them what do you all think?

I'd be just as happy with inquisitors disappearing from the codex, but certain other Imperial stuff could stay - like the assassins. I agree with other posters, though, that some more Ecclesiarchy stuff is always good. Maybe also include Stormtroopers, because the Sisters of Battle oversee the schola progenia where Stormies and commissars are trained.

Also Exorcists: I was thinking on making them 190pts and AV 12/11/10 but it would contain the Fast rule and the missiles would be barrage Str 6 AP4, Barrage, small blast, Heavy D6? Plus you can add vehicle upgrades to them, also I was thinking on a one shot special type of missile fire to add to them but im not sure, ao what do you all think?

If you're going to give the Exorcist a blast mode, I'd say give them a S8 AP1 Ordnance Blast mode and a S8 AP1 Heavy 3 or 4 mode (sort of like the new DA Land Speeder). I don't think increasing their points cost is the right way to go - they're already pretty expensive for a tank with unreliable performance at their chosen job. I was watching a game the other day where in three turns, two Exorcists fired seven missiles between 'em. That's not acceptable for almost 300 points of glass cannon. Sure, some games they'll fire thirty missiles instead of seven, but ask almost any player and they'll take consistency over occasional bursts of glory, because those dice WILL fail you at the worst possible moment.

I find the biggest problem with fan-made codexes is to try and 'solve all the problems' - you end up with an army that has access to everything and no sweeping disadvantages.

I'd say that the Sisters are interesting (and different to other armies) because of the mix of two things

- Solid, stubborn, elite units, with magic special rules, but which can be quite limited in what they are capable of.
- Frothing loony units that just run around going insane.

It's the mix between these that make them interesting - in many ways, they're the Imperium's Orks - so much of the army are flying rodent gak insane that you have to play it by ear a bit, but at least you have a solid core of dependable troops to fall back on.

Based on this, I'd suggest a few things...

- Sisters should be elite humans, but NOT as tactically flexible as Space Marines or even the Guard. Don't allow them 5 man squads. They are dogmatic, indoctrinated fighters who only fight one way. The Ecclesiarchy does not strike me as a tactically flexible thing.

- Acts of Faith should give sisters the 'edge' but not overpower them. The current system at least makes things simple, and simplicity is the most important thing.

- The CRAZY side should really be crazy. How about some mechanic that links their craziness to their invulnerable Shield of Faith save? Or links both to Acts of Faith. What about the Seraphim/Sisters Superior generating points, which the crazies can then use to protect themselves? So they draw inspiration from the Sisters. Faith generated by angelic Seraphim can be used to protect Penitent Engines and Frateris Militia, and Repentia become special because they can generate their own protective Faith points (so you don't need to give them carapace armour, you can just up their invulnerable saves)

Also, with a fandex, I'd recommend not changing anything like weapon effects and stats - keep Exorcists as they are, keep Penitent Engines as they are, don't change their weapon stats or hull points, etc. Don't invalidate models by giving Repentia armour, etc. Try and do everything using the unversial special rules and everyone will be much more likely to use the codex...

Ok thanks for the Advice everyone, ok so no Inquisitors thats a go-go and the Exorcist... How about I just make it a Barrage weapon as well but increas the points by 10?

Also Cannoness has Zealot? I assume this would be an obvious choice for her since she is a zealot for the Emporor...

 happygolucky wrote:
Ok thanks for the Advice everyone, ok so no Inquisitors thats a go-go and the Exorcist... How about I just make it a Barrage weapon as well but increas the points by 10?

Also Cannoness has Zealot? I assume this would be an obvious choice for her since she is a zealot for the Emporor...

Instead, make it a Wargear option.

Can replace X with X for X points.

Or: Add X Missle Option for X points

I would say make it an option, either Zealot, or Crusader.

Ok well I dont have the rulebook on me but I could in the Wargear option say that the Cannoness could choose between options?

No other comments on this in over a month?

Sorry for the thread necromancy, but a fandex Sister Codex is something I'd love to see happen. I was lurking, but wanted to bump this before it died out (whups).

I agree that the main problem with Fandexes is that they tend to become wishlists and the armies tend to be WAY overpowered. The goal should be to bring the Sisters in line with 6th, keep them within their fluff (sans Ward-isms), keep them within their own idiom, and make them balanced and fun.

For the Sisters, way back in days of yore (3rd and 4th), the Sisters were the best short-range army. From 6"-12", there was nothing that could outshoot or outdo Sisters, being positively brutal being when they were just out of assault range.

I'd say a slight tweak on their basic stats. They're essentially regular, albeit highly-drilled, humans in power armor, so they get the 3+ save, and being humans, S, T, and I should all be 3's. However, I'd seriously think about putting at least BS at a 4. WS at a 4 might be too much, keeping the player on their toes staying right in their opponents face while having to be wary of actually getting into assault range - that kind of delicate balancing act was the fun part of playing pure Sisters for me.

I noticed a few others stated that they saw the Sisters as a zealot, tacticless army, but I always thought of them as an elite military force, capable of going toe-to-toe with anyone. While they do have units that are basically mindless zealots (Repentia, Priests, Penitent Engines), the bulk of the sisters should be a highly mobile, calculating force, with options for deploying quickly (so Valkyries, Rhinos, Repressors, and droppods all as standard transport options). There's no reason why the Sisters shouldn't have access to Landraiders.

I do agree with the idea of dumping the Inquisition. As much as I absolutely love my Inquisitors, Sisters should be able to stand on their own.

On Acts of Faith, I'm going to break from the norm here and say that this should be a unit-based ability that the unit can activate by making a leadership roll. While the idea of Faith Points is great, having a running tally and variable rules is a slow process, takes a bit of trust from your opponent, is hard to grasp for a beginner (or opponent), and is too random. I mean, I realize that's part of the idea, but it would be better if it was just a Ld check (or half-Ld check, if the power is particularly unbalancing) with maybe a bonus if people have died, there are Celestians/Canoness/Seraphim/Sister Superior or other inspiring units.

The Canoness needs to be a bit more useful and diverse, as she was in 4th edition. With wargear, and armed with the Book and an Eviscerator, she became an absolute terror in close combat. Jump pack optional, but she needs to return to being an HQ that opponents actively fear getting near.

Totally on board with a "rabble" unit of pilgrims with stats similar to IG Conscripts: meatshield, in other words.

In addition, having specialist troop units (Veterans, Scouts/Sabatours/etc with specific abilities) might not be bad, either; the troop section is lacking diversity.

As for new units, an entry for the FW Avenger and maybe the FW Stormeagle would be good fits.

As you might guess, I already gave making a fandex a shot, but I suck at assigning point values to the units, so eventually bailed on it.

Ok thanks with focus Im trying to make it unique as well as a easy for the army to use, so Im trying to adopt a focus-type of system (like in warmachine) for the acts of faith.

So everybody wants Imperial Milita, ok will put that one up.

I was thinking of an elite unit of Angels with wings and everything like mini-saint celestians with power swords and shields for a new unit...

Currently the codex is still underway but its going smoothly, I may add Valkyries but no Vendettas though.

Just a head's up. Several posters have attempted to do this in the past and I recall at least two heavily developed fandices that were created. I don't recall any of the threads ending well, but instead they ended with a great deal of flaming and mod love.

If you're going to go through with this, you need to be open to suggestions and criticism...even if you don't like or agree with it.

Or, like anything, take in the parts you like and discard the parts you don't. It's a fandex you're creating, after all. If someone wants all their Sisters to have S10 and 2++ saves, they can make their own.

For your winged idea, you might want to keep it to the Saraphims' more mechanical method of flight: the ladies are notably unimpressed with mutants.

well i would advocate for a character that makes the imperial militia (which i assume to be conscripts basically) to be tougher.... fearless perhaps or so overwhelmed with faith that they gain FNP

Keep them toughness 3, but give me more bodies. 15 sisters for the cost of 10 toughness 4 marines would be ideal.

Otherwise, just give the rules for their vehicles and unit's a general kick up the backside to get them working better within 6th edition, so they are on par with the 3 new books. (Not better, just, equal)

Inquisitors, assassins, and storm troopers or alcolytes.

Sisters Novitiate, if they haven't been mentioned already.

I'd say something like this:

HQ
Canoness
WS5 BS5 S3 T3 W3 I4 A3 Ld10 Sv3+
Has access to all wargear, has special abilities.

High Priest
WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W3 I3 A3 Ld10 Sv5+
Access to wargear, special abilities. Cheap HQ option.

Celestian Command Squad
WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A2 Ld10 Sv3+
Access to wargear and special weapons. HQ squad.

Seraphim Command Squad
WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I4 A1 Ld10 Sv3+
Jump pack capable HQ. Has melta bombs, twin-link, hit-and-run.

Elite
Sisters Repentia
WS4 BS0 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld10 Sv4+
Carry eviscerators but hit at initiative, Feel-no-pain, Rage, Fearless, Fleet.

Penitent Engine
WS4 BS2 S8 T6 W5 I4 Ad6 Ld10 Sv3+
Monstrous creature, can replace flamers for Multi-meltas for +15pts, Rage, Fearless

Celestians
WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld10 Sv3+
Can take special weapons, special abilities.

Preacher
WS4 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A2 Ld7 Sv5+
Inspiring presence, Rage, cheap leadership-buff unit that can be split among other squads.

Choir
WS2 BS2 S2 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld7 Sv5+
Non-combat unit that buffs surrounding units, allowing rerolls of faith, leadership.

Sisters of Silence
WS5 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I4 A1 Ld9 Sv3+
Psychic monstrosities that will utterly annihilate psykers and warp beings. Completely immune to warp effects.

Troops
Battle Sisters Squad
WS3 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8 Sv3+
Can have a sister superior with access to wargear. Two sisters can be given a melta or flamer.

Zealots
WS2 BS2 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld6 Sv6+
Cheap rabble - basically pilgrims. Armed with autoguns. One out of every ten can be armed with a shotgun or det charge. Fearless.

Veteran Sister Squad
WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld9 Sv3+
Can have special weapons, but also can infiltrate. Can carry det charges.

Scout Sister Squad
WS3 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld7 Sv4+
Can take a sister superior (who can take wargear). Can’t take special weapons, but has stealth, carapace armor.

Monk Conclave
WS4 BS2 S3 T3 W1 I3 A2 Ld7 Sv6+
Warrior monks armed with shotguns.

Dedicated Transports

Landraider

Rhino

Immolator

Repressor

Valkyrie

Storm Eagle

Fast Attack
Seraphim
WS3 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I4 A1 Ld8 Sv3+
Jump packs, twin-linked weapons, hit-and-run

Avenger

Dominion Squad
WS3 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8 Sv3+
Comes in Immolator, squads of 5-20. Can have more meltas and flamers than normal.

Heavy Support
Exorcist

Retributor Squad
WS3 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8 Sv3+
Can take Multi-Meltas, Heavy Flamers, Heavy Bolters

Vendetta

Unique Characters
A few colorful characters like the Saint and a Priest, etc.

Chuck in the Sisters' Faith abilities, make them a simple leadership check to activate (rather than a random + keeping-track-of-how-many-points-you-have system)((like the IG Orders)), and you've got a stew going.

 happygolucky wrote:


-sister dialogus doing something about the faith

If you have a command squad they include the dialogues and she gives you back a faith point if you roll a 6 for the test within 12" or so from her.

Snapdragon wrote:
I'd say something like this:

HQ
Canoness
WS5 BS5 S3 T3 W3 I4 A3 Ld10 Sv3+
Has access to all wargear, has special abilities.

High Priest
WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W3 I3 A3 Ld10 Sv5+
Access to wargear, special abilities. Cheap HQ option.

Celestian Command Squad
WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A2 Ld10 Sv3+
Access to wargear and special weapons. HQ squad.

Seraphim Command Squad
WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I4 A1 Ld10 Sv3+
Jump pack capable HQ. Has melta bombs, twin-link, hit-and-run.

Nothing wrong here.

Elite
Sisters Repentia
WS4 BS0 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld10 Sv4+
Carry eviscerators but hit at initiative, Feel-no-pain, Rage, Fearless, Fleet.
Lose the "strikes at initiative." Maybe give their weapons two attack profiles: one that strikes at base S and I and is AP4, and another that strikes at double S and AP2 and is Unwieldy.

Penitent Engine
WS4 BS2 S8 T6 W5 I4 Ad6 Ld10 Sv3+
Monstrous creature, can replace flamers for Multi-meltas for +15pts, Rage, Fearless
This profile is crazy-strong. I'd say S5 T5 W4 - remember, if you want high-S hits you can use Smash attacks, and with random A that's 1-3 Smashes per round. Or, you can just stick with the old vehicular profile of Pengines, let them come in squads of 1-3, and make them points-cost-appropriate. Are multimeltas usually an option? It seems like regular meltaguns would make more sense. Multimeltas are so big that even Dreadnoughts can't squeeze them in the same arm as a DCCW.

Celestians
WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld10 Sv3+
Can take special weapons, special abilities.

Preacher
WS4 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A2 Ld7 Sv5+
Inspiring presence, Rage, cheap leadership-buff unit that can be split among other squads.

Choir
WS2 BS2 S2 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld7 Sv5+
Non-combat unit that buffs surrounding units, allowing rerolls of faith, leadership.
This is a cool idea.

Sisters of Silence
WS5 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I4 A1 Ld9 Sv3+
Psychic monstrosities that will utterly annihilate psykers and warp beings. Completely immune to warp effects.
I don't like "completely immune." Give them Adamantium Will and maybe a ++save against wounds caused by psychic powers.

Troops
Battle Sisters Squad
WS3 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8 Sv3+
Can have a sister superior with access to wargear. Two sisters can be given a melta or flamer.

Zealots
WS2 BS2 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld6 Sv6+
Cheap rabble - basically pilgrims. Armed with autoguns. One out of every ten can be armed with a shotgun or det charge. Fearless.
Let the whole unit swap for shotguns. Shotguns do not really merit being called "special weapons." Let them also swap for pistol/CCW.

Veteran Sister Squad
WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld9 Sv3+
Can have special weapons, but also can infiltrate. Can carry det charges.
As Troops?

Scout Sister Squad
WS3 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld7 Sv4+
Can take a sister superior (who can take wargear). Can’t take special weapons, but has stealth, carapace armor.
Feels too space marine.

Monk Conclave
WS4 BS2 S3 T3 W1 I3 A2 Ld7 Sv6+
Warrior monks armed with shotguns.
This feels too close to the Zealots. They really need something to differentiate them and make them interesting.

Dedicated Transports

Landraider

Rhino

Immolator

Repressor

Valkyrie
I think Sisters really deserve their own flyer.

Storm Eagle

Fast Attack
Seraphim
WS3 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I4 A1 Ld8 Sv3+
Jump packs, twin-linked weapons, hit-and-run
Why twin-linked? 6e has Gunslingers. Just give em two pistols.

Avenger

Dominion Squad
WS3 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8 Sv3+
Comes in Immolator, squads of 5-20. Can have more meltas and flamers than normal.
Why big squads on these guys? And why in Fast Attack? What makes them faster than anything else that rides in a dedicated transport?

Heavy Support
Exorcist
The Exorcist desperately needs an update.

Retributor Squad
WS3 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8 Sv3+
Can take Multi-Meltas, Heavy Flamers, Heavy Bolters

Vendetta
Again, I don't feel like ripping flyers from IG is a good solution.

Unique Characters
A few colorful characters like the Saint and a Priest, etc.

Chuck in the Sisters' Faith abilities, make them a simple leadership check to activate (rather than a random + keeping-track-of-how-many-points-you-have system)((like the IG Orders)), and you've got a stew going.

My thoughts.

I was trying to work with existing models, so while their own flier would be awesome (and I totally agree), it would have to be something that already exists in the 40k model universe.

For everything else, yeah - good thoughts.

Above all else, Sisters need moral modifiers or boost. The old codex Witch Hunters Book of St. Lucius provided 6" radius LD stubborn bubbles everywhere. It was one of the hallmarks and notable features of SoB. Currently, SM can easily employ mass stubborn LD through special characters, but they don't necessary need it when they have ATSKNF. SoB on the other hand do need it.

Lack of stubborn is what upsets me the most with WD codex Sisters of Battle.

Edit:

WOOT! 1000th post!

Stubborn should be baseline for all Veterans and above.

Novitiates - LD7
Battle Sisters - LD8
Veteran Superior - LD9
Palatine/Canoness - LD10