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The ubersuit sounds amazing. I want it.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Has there been any Codex with less than 5-6 special characters lately? Current Tau Codex has only 3.

and the three they have are absolutely and totally terrible.

Here is hoping for good stuff....

(and my flachette drones.....).

Exploding drones would be nice.

I would love it if these rumours are true, ive been wanting to buy some new tau models for a LONG time, and with an uber suit or 2 a kroot monstrous creature, a codex, and some new suits I will be broke in no time. I would love to see drones become fearless as a drone with a.i. should not have to do fear/morale checks. also the drones taking the save of the guy they're attached to doesn't really make sense to me. they should have their own statline for everything. plus I also think kroot should be a lot faster in combat, they are hunters and should be at an elder initiative level not a oh crap I'm in a fight tau fire warrior level. if they upped the initiative level of kroot and gave them a slightly better save they would be ok in battle. right now they all die from overwatch then going second in combat, and now your assault unit is dead.

RogueRegault wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Has there been any Codex with less than 5-6 special characters lately? Current Tau Codex has only 3.

Never underestimate the lack of effort GW will put into a Tau codex. (Or overestimate the effort put into it.)

If GW could release the Tau codex as $50 for a fluff section and one choice each for Troops, HQ, Elites, Fast Attack, and Heavy Support, they would.

And you just described the current Tau codex. Except for $30 instead of $50. On topic of the actual thread, I'm very much hoping I see Hazards and the two special characters from Forge World make the jump over to the main codex, as they are awesome and I would totally run them.

These rumors sound fantastic, but one thing that hasn't been addressed yet is if pulse rifles stay as are (and thus kick ass at 15"). What of the carbine? Because besides the "pinning" rule (really inconsequential), there currently isn't any point of the carbine.

Rumors for their basic troops are really what I'm interested in. New carbine stat-line? Infantry weapon/wargear options? Updated point cost?

Love what I'm hearing, but I'm looking at the issues/focal points with Tau right now, and what hasn't been addressed.
Kroot: Addressed.
Crisis Suits: Addressed.
Vespids: Addressed.
Flyers: Addressed.
Stealth Suits: Addressed (not good news, but still addressed).
Fire Warriors? Only BS issue. Nothing else.

I wait with trepidation.

 dlust1 wrote:
I would love it if these rumours are true, ive been wanting to buy some new tau models for a LONG time, and with an uber suit or 2 a kroot monstrous creature, a codex, and some new suits I will be broke in no time. I would love to see drones become fearless as a drone with a.i. should not have to do fear/morale checks. also the drones taking the save of the guy they're attached to doesn't really make sense to me. they should have their own statline for everything. plus I also think kroot should be a lot faster in combat, they are hunters and should be at an elder initiative level not a oh crap I'm in a fight tau fire warrior level. if they upped the initiative level of kroot and gave them a slightly better save they would be ok in battle. right now they all die from overwatch then going second in combat, and now your assault unit is dead.

The reason drones have adopted the saves of the squad they belong to is due to the screwjob 4th edition did to mixed toughness/armor save units. The 3e codex specifically stated that shots were assigned to drones first and rolled separately, but 4th edition's majority toughness rules took precedence and utterly destroyed the point of drones.

I'm not gonna wishlist, I'm just gonna point out that since everything has recently been a dual kit, there's likely two versions of the new flyer. A transport and an attack craft.

I'm also hoping we finally get a suit choice for FA.

The plasma weapon on the uber suit sounds cool. Can't wait for this new codex and models to hit shelves. My biggest issue with these rumors are the change to markerlights. The inability to stack is a major nerf to the Tau. Currently you can have a unit or two shoot at BS5 and completely take away a cover save and drop an enemy unit that needs to die. Where to put a markerlight and how to use is a critical tactic for Tau to succeed currently. Right now they are pretty strong, imo this change would make them weaker. The +1BS from multiple unit thing is nice but it isn't BS5 and no cover from a 2 fireknife teams at 8" hitting a termy squad. GW needs to get their move on with the Tau release esp. since there allies to pretty much everyone.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Has there been any Codex with less than 5-6 special characters lately? Current Tau Codex has only 3.

That may be true, BUT how many recent codexes have had more than a single genuinely new special charater, rather than returning old ones ?

I should think Tau will get something, but no so sure they'll get several brand new ones

I was hoping that the new Pulse Rifles would be a Salvo weapon... that rule seems like it was written for the pulse rifle...

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Has there been any Codex with less than 5-6 special characters lately? Current Tau Codex has only 3.

That may be true, BUT how many recent codexes have had more than a single genuinely new special charater, rather than returning old ones ?
I should think Tau will get something, but no so sure they'll get several brand new ones

Dark Eldar and Necrons had, even Tyranids.
And Tau even have miniatures for three (two of them limited though):

Aun Shi (in 3rd edition Codex):


Anghkor Prok (3rd edition WD rules, Games Day miniature):


Kais (limited edition sold with Fire Warrior PC game):


plus several known characters in PC games and (upcoming) tau novels, e.g. Shas'o Kais from Dawn of War:

fair enough

 Kroothawk wrote:

Anghkor Prok (3rd edition WD rules, Games Day miniature):

What do you mean? I only see Kroothawk, venerable Dakka contributor, in that pic!

I always assumed that Shas'o Kais was the same Kais from Firewarrior, as a neat little cross over

 Mantle wrote:
I always assumed that Shas'o Kais was the same Kais from Firewarrior, as a neat little cross over

If you've read the book, you'd understand why this is probably not true. SPOILER ALERT:

offtopic

Tau don't have individual names. Instead, they earn them by outstanding service to their caste. Kais, meaning skilled, is one of O'Shovah's many names, for example.

So having a leader with 'Kais' somewhere in their name is pretty common.

/offtopic

I wonder if they will add a drone harbinger from DoW to the codex - could transport 12 drones and grant drones withing 18'' of them some special rules (+1BS, furious charge or something?)

I will not be surprised if they tone down marker lights. They are an antiquated gimmick. Some past tau players love marker lights, so they wont be eliminated completely from the codex, but my guess is that they will be made so that they are completely optional to have, and you are not nerfing yourself if you decide not to use them.

Logically, if they tone down Markerlights there will need to be a compensation somewhere be it reducing model points costs so we can put more shots out or making abilities like higher BS, ignores cover and Nightvision common and cheap.

Still, I do like the idea of a +1BS for the entire army on one enemy unit for 1 markerlight hit. That effectively makes all Tau BS 4 and potentially some special units BS 5 rather than doing it unit by unit.

Maybe well be lucky and Marker Lights don't stack BS anymore, but each token applies 1 effect and every effect applies. It would be nasty to remove the cover save from a unit and boost the entire army's BS by 1 when targeting the unit.

Jefffar wrote:
Logically, if they tone down Markerlights there will need to be a compensation somewhere be it reducing model points costs so we can put more shots out or making abilities like higher BS, ignores cover and Nightvision common and cheap.

Still, I do like the idea of a +1BS for the entire army on one enemy unit for 1 markerlight hit. That effectively makes all Tau BS 4 and potentially some special units BS 5 rather than doing it unit by unit.

Maybe well be lucky and Marker Lights don't stack BS anymore, but each token applies 1 effect and every effect applies. It would be nasty to remove the cover save from a unit and boost the entire army's BS by 1 when targeting the unit.

I'm expecting tau to get an update similar to what deldar received. A VAST amount of change

Well Dark Eldar and Necroms both got significant updates to make them more competitive and unique at the same time. I think that GW has noticed the effects on sales of giving the Xenos good options so it is likely that Tau and Eldar will get the same in short order. Tyranids and Orks should also get a good nudge this edition.

I think that merkerlights are one of the more interesting elements in playing Tau. It's an elegant and fluffy way to boost your units, especially the way it is now.

Because as previously said, if a markerlight shot only increases the BS of every unit shooting at the target, it's only a roundabout and unintuitive way of making everyone +1BS.

Right now markerlights are versative and can adapt to the opponent. Reduce cover of termies to blast them with plasma. Increase BS of Fireknives to blast an MC. Negate jink to take down that skimmer with FW. With a static +1 to BS, you can't boost the unit you really need to improve, which takes away the element of choice and dumbs the play down.

So I do hope that merkerlights stay the same.

Lumipon wrote:
I think that merkerlights are one of the more interesting elements in playing Tau. It's an elegant and fluffy way to boost your units, especially the way it is now.

Because as previously said, if a markerlight shot only increases the BS of every unit shooting at the target, it's only a roundabout and unintuitive way of making everyone +1BS.

Right now markerlights are versative and can adapt to the opponent. Reduce cover of termies to blast them with plasma. Increase BS of Fireknives to blast an MC. Negate jink to take down that skimmer with FW. With a static +1 to BS, you can't boost the unit you really need to improve, which takes away the element of choice and dumbs the play down.

So I do hope that merkerlights stay the same.

all I'm saying, is that right now, Tau is ALL ABOUT marker light. And I won't be surprised if new Tau are NOT all about marker light

There are a lot of ways it could go. They might just make Markerlights work like Prescience and Perfect Timing but without all that Psychic related stuff.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Has there been any Codex with less than 5-6 special characters lately? Current Tau Codex has only 3.

That may be true, BUT how many recent codexes have had more than a single genuinely new special charater, rather than returning old ones ?

I should think Tau will get something, but no so sure they'll get several brand new ones

Codex: Space Marines:
Sicarus, sort of
Khan
Vulkan
Telion
Kantor
Chronus

Codex: IG
Harker
Bastonne
Pask
Al'Rehem sort of
Chenkov sort of

Codex: Space Wolves
Canis
Arjac

Codex: Tyranids:
Doom
Parasite
Swarmlord

Codex: BA
Seth
Sanguinor
Astorath

Codex: DE
Baron
Duke
Malys

Codex: GK
Draigo
Valeria
Mordrak
Crowe

Codex: Necrons
Anrakyr
Trayzn
Oberon
Nemesor
Szeras
Orikan


Even if Tau only bring back old characters, that still means Aun'Shi and Anghor Prok, bringing the total to 5, 3 with current models, and one with an old model that could simply be reprinted. 2-3 more characters would let GW make a few new character sculpts to sell at least.

Don't forget Marbo.

I think the current set of specials is fine once they update there rules like that silly 1500 point limit and useless war gear.

though having 1 or 2 more like a air commander or kroot hq would be great.

Jefffar wrote:
Logically, if they tone down Markerlights there will need to be a compensation somewhere be it reducing model points costs so we can put more shots out or making abilities like higher BS, ignores cover and Nightvision common and cheap.

Still, I do like the idea of a +1BS for the entire army on one enemy unit for 1 markerlight hit. That effectively makes all Tau BS 4 and potentially some special units BS 5 rather than doing it unit by unit.

Maybe well be lucky and Marker Lights don't stack BS anymore, but each token applies 1 effect and every effect applies. It would be nasty to remove the cover save from a unit and boost the entire army's BS by 1 when targeting the unit.

Actually it is a load of gak because you have to take a whole half Pathfinder team (4 infantry plus a Devilfish) to get two marker light hits which gives you +1 to hit a single enemy unit.

It is much worse than any other previous or proposed implementation of marker lights and will ensure that no-one ever uses Pathfinders again, if true.

MajorWesJanson wrote:

Codex: Necrons
Anrakyr
Trayzn
Oberon
Nemesor
Szeras
Orikan

Why did you not include Imotehk in there? He most certainly was not in the last codex.

On topic:

So our consistent rumours are(reported by both Stickmonkey and Faeit212):

Skyray is getting a orbital strike ability
Firewarriors are getting an option to upgrade to BS 4
Battlesuits are getting new models
Battlesuits MIGHT be able to become T5 (Stickmonkey only says that there will be statline upgrades)
Kroot haz a monster
Kroot are getting a major rules overhaul with a bunch of new special rules
The Ubersuit exists
Crisis suits are getting new weapons options of some kind

The following has been written from the point of view that the rumours are somewhat accurate and as such the reader should take their daily recommended dosage of sodium before continuing on.


OK, A liitle bit more in depth here.

In 5th ed, the BRB had hints as to upcoming releases laced throughout the book. If the 6th ed BRB is doing the same then.....

Concerning special characters, The BRB hints to us that there will be:

Aun'va(Currently exists in codex)

O'Shovah/Commander Farsight(Currently exists in Codex)

Aun'Shi - (Returing after an absence, YES!!!!)

O'Shas'serra/Commander Shadowsun(Currently exists)


Now add from the rumours that:

The Kroot will most likely get an HQ unit. Maybe Angkhor Prok, maybe a generic maybe something new or some combination of the previous.(Nothing unexpected here).

There will be a Firewarrior Commander. This could mean a special character or it could just mean that vanilla commanders will be without a battlesuitsuit and will purchase their choice of armour from their wargear entries. I'm leaning towards the latter.

There will be an ubersuit. This could be a Heavy or it could be an HQ/special character option of some sort. The latter, IMO, seems like it would be the best as to prevent overloading the Heavy FOC....Which means GW will make it one of 8 heavy choices .

Vespids are getting thourough rework. Re-vamped Vespids with expanded background could easily lead to a Special Character.


My bet(According to the rumors and based off of long time playing the Tau) is that We will keep our current special characters, Aun'shi will return and we will see both a Kroot and Vespid SC to round out the Tau Hero list.



The next hint from the BRB that seems to coincide with these rumours is that the Pathfinders are barely shown. If the horrible markerlight rumours are true then there will be no reason to take a unit of pathfinders. Players will take a Sky Ray and equip their team leaders with markerlights or marker drones.

Note, That I really hope that I am wrong here and that the rumors are wrong. Removal of the Markerlight system as a force multiplier/synergistic tool would remove much of the feel of the Tau. It would dumb down their playstyle to being less challenging than the IG, Necrons, Chaos or any of the Space Marine Factions(Which, unfortunately, is why I see GW doing it. GW is very likely to turn the Tau into an army that is simple, easy and overpowered. It's easier to sell to the current batch of kiddies who want to win without taking the time to develope skill.)

My hope for Markerlights is that, if they are revamped, they get a token system similar to the DE pain tokens. Something like:
1 hit = +1 BS and ignore night fight
2 hit = -1 cover(stacks with first token)
3 hit = -1 leadership (stacks with first 2 tokens_
4 hit = +1 BS
ect, ect....balance with cost
Note- This is just an off the cuff example


About the Fire Warrior rumours. I hope there is more improvement than just getting an expensive option to boost the BS. If they get both grenade types included for the same 10 pt price then they would be ok. But if getting a 50 point option to increase the bs by +1 is all the fire warriors get then there has to be
a) more to the markerlight rework than what has been shown.
b) some new drone unit or such that will add enough synergy to make up for the nerfing
or
c)GW wants to force Tau players to buy some new basic infantry model.

Hmmm... I wonder if the 50 point commander option is per unit or will be for all fire Warriors.


As to the other rumors:
Kroot sound ok- hope GW improves/expands the kroot wargear options and brings back the mercenary rule of leadership = base + pts spent on wargear.

Giant krootox sounds *meh*. Would love to field a mostly Kroot army that could hold their own but would rather they fix the regular krootox first.

Giant ubersuit sounds *ok* but if it looks as bad as the other giant model kits GW has recently produced then I'll pass

Sky Ray appears great though it sounds like seeker missiles will go the way of the do-do.

Vespids being improved is good but will wait and see what GW considers improved. Hope they consider the fluff when reworkung them.

Tau Fliers??? *Meh* Flier should be 12-12-11 with improved disruption pods or shields. Though the proposed well armoured and undergunned rumor fits with GWs policy of handicapping the Tau. Basically a flying D-fish.

More interested in if the Devilfish will have fire points that allow fire warriors shoot out of the side hatches and whether or not the D-fish and Pirahna will get plasma rifle options


OK, done pretending that these rumours give an accurate picture of what the'dex will be like.. Don't doubt that some of this stuff is close but as always, the codex will show that even the most accurate rumours don't show the whole picture.

Later,
FF

I'll be furious if they get rid of Pathfinders. I'm in the process of converting pulse shotgun toting, ghillie suit wearing, camouflaged Pathfinders. I'm excited about them.

If Markerlights are downplayed and limited to maxing out on one hit, then maybe have smaller units of 5, 2 Markerlights and 3 Rail Rifles? I love the covert ops commando idea behind the Pathfinder, and they play such an integral role in Tau battlefield tactics.