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Thanks for this thread. It's been a long time since forum trolling has made me laugh this hard. Really, you've been arguing in circles for pages, and this guy just keeps making outlandish assertions about totally incorrect rules interpretations? That doesn't set off little bells and whistles in anybody's head?

This is a game with 14 year old kids as the target audience. You don't like it, go find something else to play with rather than ruining everybody else's experiences.

There is a reason for a points system, BTW.

 Selym wrote:

orkgoffrocker wrote:

 Selym wrote:

orkgoffrocker wrote:
Thats right you dont get a reply Selym after you call someone a troll Your Argument is Invalid!

 BoomWolf wrote:
This entire thread is based around "hammernauts are OP"

And I look at the possibility of 6 teams of 5 hammernauts coming my way and think to myself "What on earth will I do against it?!" then I realise "wait, I can just walk away and gun them down as they are freaking slow and cant even even shoot freaking lasguns at me"


Seriusly, hammernauts are among the least scary things in the game per cost, grow a spine.

So i understand you have never played a game vs Deathwing Hammernator
1) Deathwing Hammernator can shoot and its all twin-linked
2) Deathwing Hammernator can deep strike 1st turn and don't scatter so 1" away from you then run so they daisy chain box you into your own deployment zone, so.......walk away were exactly your traped on your own table edge
3) Thanks to the Allies matrix every Imperial army can have 20 Deathwing Hammernator
4) The funny part is you just proved my point with your example, EVERYOTHER MELEE ARMY IN 6ed.. will get tabled in 4 turns or less. i.e. Wych cult dead!, Foot eldar or heavy Aspect warriors dead, Nid MC spam or Nid gaunt spam dead!, genestealers and all Ork armies unplayable.
5) SW blood claws, Korn Berserker, Black Templars still playable becauce of there 3+ save but will still loss 90% of games

1) As said before, they CAN'T have guns.
2) You're 1" away from them. Shoot, charge, drown them in bodies.
3) Will almost never happen below 3k pts, as they're fething expensive.
4) Not my CSM. I've had those guys last until turn seven. You just need to be a competent general.
5) Hell no.

1) my bad i must have read the codex wrong i thought it said SS/TH and a Shoulder mounted CML. no wait! thats what is dose say but personly i would just take 4 Hammernators and leave the power fist on the last guy and add a plasma cannon, but thats just me
2) Yeah tried that you see um Hammernators are GODS in melee that 3++ means even Mega Nobs can't kill very many the last game i had 9 Mega Nobs assault 5 Hammernators, mathhammer says the Mega Nobs should have inflicted 15 wound and then the Hammernators would have saved 10 still killing the unit what really happen was i rolled low for the charge 4 (average for Mega Nobs since they have Slow and Purposeful) so only 5 Mega Nobs got to attack only killing 3 Hammernators i lost the 5 Mega Nobs counts as 10 wounds, so lost combat but 7 the Ork can't past LD of 7 since i need to roll 0 on 2d6
3) They are expensive but i have found the smaller the points size the more a 2+ save counts, so games of less then 1000pts Hammernators are often the toughest model on the table.
4) I love that your only real argument is attacking my competence as a general. I know i'm easily the best general at my club because i never let your opponent dictate the battle, i know every move they will make before they do, i find the hardest opponents to be the Noobs. People that have never played a game before because they make tactically dumb moves e.g. death or glory on Battlewagon with a Power Fist when you can just Krak grenade it next turn or assaulting a mob of 30 boyz with there Space Marine Devastator Squad.
5) Really do you play Korn Berserkers NO! You love Abaddon, why because he has a Ap2 power weapon and a 2+ save. I still can not express my disbelieve at how underpowered Korn Berserkers are for 19pts in a 6ed codex, you would expect them to have 2 attacks since Wolf Guard are 18pts and have 2 attacks and Grey Knights are 20pts and have 2 attacks. Also fleet of foot would have not been out of place since its crap now but would help the get more charges. This would be balanced but we are talking about a new codex for 6ed so every Korn Berserkers should have a power weapon and the funny part is even if they did all have power weapons they would still not be as covered as Grey Knights

Firstly: Improve your spelling, punctuation and grammar.
Secondly: Learn how to format a sentence.
Thirdly: Learn what a paragraph is, and then apply it to your writing style.

1) So why were you complaining about them having twin-linked guns? If you've ever seen them in combat IRL, you'd know already.

2) Hammernators aren't gods. Firstly, if your Nobz are failing to do anything, stop paying for them. Get more Boyz. Secondly, it is going to take quite a LONG time for Hammernators to cut through a 30-strong blob of Orks. Tarpit and move on. Thirdly, 3++ is the same as fighting a 3+ with only AP 4 or higher, it will on average take three wounding hits to kill one of those terminators with a powerklaw, something a Nob can easily do.
As I said before, use reserves. Hammernators can only attack things in CC, reserves subvert their ability to kill things. Stormboyz, Dakkajets, Bikerz, anything in a transport can/will out run a hammernator. Use the options given to you in your codex, ffs.

3) Except Ghazkhull. Avoid the damn things if you can't kill them.

4) Actually, it's mostly reason and logic, but your seeming incapacity to accept a new tactical doctrine is near proof of poor generalship.

5) So first you are saying that Berzerkers are good because they have a 3+, then immediatley contradict yourself by saying that they will loose 9/10 games. Then you say that for 19 pts they are under-powered. One Berzerker will kill a Wolf Guard in melee. GK is standard Matt Ward fail.

1) yes i am complaining about twin-linked plasma cannon that can DS anywhere 1st turn. Yes i have seen them in RL there are 2 Deathwing palyers at my club and thanks to GW and the dark vengeance box set they will be everywhere soon

2) A Nob with a powerklaw mathammered out will kill 1 Hammernator every other game turn, thats if the sargent dose not character challenge first turn and kill the Nob.. so whom is Tarpitting who??

3) LOL Ghazkhull with the new Slow and Purposeful rule what is he going to do crawl after units at d6" a turn and then charge 3d6 pick the lowest, he is about as useful as 1 legged man in an ass kicking contest

4) I have accepted the new tactical doctrine pew pew pew, melee /lol pew pew pew character challenges pew pew win

5) How is it contradictious to say because you have a 3+ save you may win 10% of your games just by luck.
Berzerker vs Wolf Guard in melee
lets try this

Berzerker WS 5 BS 4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A1 Ld 10 Sv 3+ extar rules 2 CCW +2 attack assault (rage) and i think furious charge
Wolf Guard WS 4 BS 4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld 10 Sv 3+ extar rules 2 CCW +1attack counter-charge wargear list 1pt bolter

Berzerker WS 5 BS 4 S5 T4 W1 I4 A4 Ld 10 Sv 3+ improved stat line
Wolf Guard WS 4 BS 4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A3 Ld 10 Sv 3+ improved stat line
mathammered out if the Berzerker is assaulting 64.75* % chance of killing the Wolf Guard
mathammered out if the Berzerker is assaulting 30.5 % chance of the Wolf Guard killing the Berzerker

Berzerker WS 5 BS 4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld 10 Sv 3+ improved stat line
Wolf Guard WS 4 BS 4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A3 Ld 10 Sv 3+ improved stat line
mathammered out if the Wolf Guard is assaulting 47.16* % chance of killing the Berzerker
mathammered out if the Wolf Guard is assaulting 25 % chance of the Berzerker killing the Wolf Guard

Wolf Guard BS 4 bolter range 24" 4 shots 44.4*% chance of killing the Berzerker
Berzerker BS 4 bolt pistol range 12" 1 shots 11.1*% chance of killing the Wolf Guard
looks even to me as long as the Berzerker dose not go running off after a rhino


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Selym wrote:

orkgoffrocker wrote:

 McNinja wrote:

orkgoffrocker wrote:


So i understand you have never played a game vs Deathwing Hammernator
1) Deathwing Hammernator can shoot and its all twin-linked
2) Deathwing Hammernator can deep strike 1st turn and don't scatter so 1" away from you then run so they daisy chain box you into your own deployment zone, so.......walk away were exactly your traped on your own table edge
3) Thanks to the Allies matrix every Imperial army can have 20 Deathwing Hammernator
4) The funny part is you just proved my point with your example, EVERYOTHER MELEE ARMY IN 6ed.. will get tabled in 4 turns or less. i.e. Wych cult dead!, Foot eldar or heavy Aspect warriors dead, Nid MC spam or Nid gaunt spam dead!, genestealers and all Ork armies unplayable.
5) SW blood claws, Korn Berserker, Black Templars still playable becauce of there 3+ save but will still loss 90% of games

First: your spelling is atrocious. Are you ten? You need to actually put effort into your posts like every other person who has responded to your insipid posts about how melee is dead.

Second: melee is not at all dead. Certain army playstyles that previously worked (like Wych cults) got taken down a notch because of Overwatch. That does not, by any stretch of the imagination, mean those armies are dead. People still assault with Beastmaster units, there are incredibly competitive players who still use Tyranids, namely Jesse Newton who placed in the top ten in the championship qualifiers at Adepticon. This year.

Third: It is fairly obvious that you are have no idea what you're talking about, so either you are intentionally trying to rile us up (which is trolling) or you really don't know how to play warhammer 40k.

1) Thanks for being a Grammar Nazi about a little spelling mistake, I hope it made you feel like man. I never pointed out your a virgin!

2) i) Overwatch is really not that bad other then tau with there 210 shot or worse adding makerlight to it so they Overwatch at BS 5. The problem is random charge range being 2d6 if you mathhammer it out 2d6 averages to 7" so that is a 66.666 % (2/3) chance before Overwatch
so 1 out of 3 assaults will fail before it even starts, but thats not enough we have to rub salt into the wound and make the poor assault unit eat Overwatch shots only to get rapid fired next turn.

2) ii) I had a look at Jesse Newton Termagant, Carnifex with Devourer w/Brainleech Worms, Hive Tyrant TL Devourer w/Brainleech
Worms kind sounds like a shooting army. Truthfully i don't know everyone stop playing Nids in 5ed at my club. Also he had a Skyshield Landing Pad, since Nids can't have Allies he can't take Fortifications so the army list is Invalid

3) No no i still play i just stop playing Orks unless my opponent is play Orks too then both list are poo and its a fun game, we both sit with 30 shoota boyz with 3 big shootas 23" away from each other and try to kill a more then a single Ork boy a turn, but thats just for the lulz.
Back to the real list i play
4 Rune Priests all with Divination (guild)
Allied IG so i get the most OP flyers
IG blob of 50 - - - First rank fire, second rank fire this would net you 140 shots add the Rune Priest with Divination (guild)

1) Stop retaliating like a butthurt nine-year-old.

2) I) 210 shots? Overwatch at BS5? Try reading the codex, please. They can overwatch at BS2, but that's it IIRC. And 210 shots is waaay out there on how much a unit can fire.

II) Nids can take forts, as that's an addition to the primary detachment, not an extra for an allied detachment. Furthermore, your use of roman numerals to write point "2" in two parts is pointless, as part two is unrelated to part one, and logically should be just point "3".

3) Orks can be very competitive, if you actually bother to use them properly. Also, if you so rarely use Orks, why do you keep complaining about how they're getting killed by Hammernators?
As for this: "Allied IG so i get the most OP fliers", this just makes you sound like a douche. It also doesn't help that you have poor S.G.P (Spelling, Grammar and Punctuation).

1)

2) my bad its with the Ethereal power 216 and the supporting ranged overwatch assistance rule!! its at BS2 are you joking say your joking that not even funny

3) I don't think you understand what Competitive means when you look at a codex for the units that are ONLY underpowered and not flat out useless you know something had gone horribly wrong
In 4ed Ork boyz were still good the heavy CCW rule kept the choppas in game. i personly still took shoota boyz because i had the models from when i played flash gitz in 3ed they were boyz with stormbolters for 12 pts but now they had 18" range but only cost 6pts i was in heaven, I know the APC rules in 4ed made everything a coffin, but we got run so it workout i guess i could play fun armies Ork Big Gun Kannon, Zzap guns or Killa Kans because they had BS3 that may not seen huge to you guys but to Ork players this was awesome a gun that hit half the time. Loota boyz were funny just set up a 5 man team at the back and see what they and blow up sometimes they fail to kill anything other times they drop a dreadnought every turn the Big Mek with a SAG was the best . Then 5ed dropped it was horrible fearless units took massive wounds for no reason choppas were gone over night, you no longer needed a KFF because everything gave 4+ cover rending stop being good,
units of boyz became littel more then 30 wound Nob since he was the only thing good about the unit. Most Ork player did not know what to do now Ork boyz were Useless. This is the sad tale of how KAN WALL came about 9 cheap dreadnought with 4+ cover that could win a combat
you still had to take boyz since there your only Troops (scoring units), NOB bikes was that samething a melee army that can't melee anymore.
The Tyranids did not fair as well thought the dark days of 40k. Tyranid armies on ebay for next to nothing because noone wanted them a they had 2 codexs in 4ed and still GW had not made the half the model for them so everyone stop playing them, Then MATT the : WARD : son of an Ork gave 40k the blood , CON and the abortion that was Grey Knights and broke 5ed .......... So believe please me when i say that i sincerely want 6ed to be good i did hear that MATT the : WARD was on the team wrighting 6ed but i was praying to the God Emperor that he would just kill more fluff and GW would have the insight to not let him near anything important. I read the 6ed rule book and it did not seem that bad on paper, but every assault i failed i could see how much MATT the : WARD had teabgged melee

orkgoffrocker wrote:

1) Thanks for being a Grammar Nazi about a little spelling mistake, I hope it made you feel like man. I never pointed out your a virgin!

Well, first, it's "you're" as in "you are," not "your" as in "that belongs to you" especially considering I do not have a virgin just lying around. I do not possess any virgins, that would be illegal.

Also, that insult was terrible. I will allow one mulligan, please attempt to use proper grammar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

orkgoffrocker wrote:

1)
2) my bad its with the Ethereal power 216 and the supporting ranged overwatch assistance rule!! its at BS2 are you joking

You're right, god forbid an army with zero assault competency have abilities that allow it to survive assaults.

MY bad your right 15" Rapid Fire with a str 5 gun on a 9pts modle doesn't mean your safe from assault, the Orks only have to roll 11 on 2d6 in the mean time you have 33.3*% chance of killing an Ork with each shot and with and Ethereal near by you get 3 shots, that is 1 dead Ork each turn if you can't do the maths and the poor Orks have only a 8.3*% chance of assaulting the Fire Warrior, but please forgive if you think that i'm out of line calling a rule broken when you get to Overwatch as well, shooting fish in barrel would be harder, but you should be commended on the great skill and tactics, move 6" back shoot 30" at Orks

It it just me, or is the dude complaining that every single army in the game is OP?

orkgoffrocker wrote:
MY bad your right 15" Rapid Fire with a str 5 gun on a 9pts modle doesn't mean your safe from assault, the Orks only have to roll 11 on 2d6 in the mean time you have 33.3*% chance of killing an Ork with each shot and with and Ethereal near by you get 3 shots, that is 1 dead Ork each turn if you can't do the maths and the poor Orks have only a 8.3*% chance of assaulting the Fire Warrior, but please forgive if you think that i'm out of line calling a rule broken when you get to Overwatch as well, shooting fish in barrel would be harder, but you should be commended on the great skill and tactics, move 6" back shoot 30" at Orks

Instead of whining like you're six, how about you adapt and overcome?

 BoomWolf wrote:
It it just me, or is the dude complaining that every single army in the game is OP?

I"m not even saying that i just said dear GW y 4 you hate melee so much


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I did adapt and overcome, i just made an army so and broken SW with IG Allies that most people at my club, now play no Allies and no Fliers without opponent approve. I still win every game, i'm just about Orks not being a playable army
Imperial for the win

orkgoffrocker wrote:

i did adapt and overcome, i just play SW with IG allies

...Then why are you complaining.

I would just like to say that while I have no opinion on either side of this argument here is some food for thought.

In the grim darkness of the year 40,000 this edition has made the gun mightier than the sword like it should be. Lets consider: what should I do shoot, that guy who wants to kill me, from far away or should I run up and try to slice him apart with a sword?

While I still reserve judgement on fliers I think that complaining about the state of melee combat in a far future science fiction game is a bit silly.

I like playing Ork there my favorite army. i love the fluff the painting style the modle even there silly
rules like red paint job, SAG and the d3 roll for the lootas and i have never worried about not being the in top tier list, i played almost every week even in 5ed, but how do you turn up each week and play 2 or 3 games if you know, like really know you can't win. I mathhammered so many army builds to try and find something that dose not have 99% chance of failure.
I have a friend that plays tau we used to play all the time and the games were nail bitting i would win normaly with only and hand full of Ork or we would draw. In 1 game because Tau and Orks are both initiative 2 his last Fire Warrior kiled my last Boy we luled so hard.
The first and last game we had in 6ed he tabled me on turn 4 and i did not get any KP his army was untouched.
So did i forget how to play Ork the day after 6ed came out or is it more likely the rules are unfavorable to any kind of melee. Think about it like this if you had to pass a LD test to shoot each turn would that be fair and if you fail the test you lose a modle

orkgoffrocker wrote:

So did i forget how to play Ork the day after 6ed came out

You got it in one.

Has anyone else noticed these following points about orkgoffrocker's posts?

-Complains about everything that he does not field.

-Bases his arguments purely on the mathematical fact that a hammernator can kill an ork.

-Acts like he can't ever use anything other than boyz mobs in a game.

-Acts like there is no such thing as cover.

Also:

orkgoffrocker wrote:


3) LOL Ghazkhull with the new Slow and Purposeful rule what is he going to do crawl after units at d6" a turn and then charge 3d6 pick the lowest, he is about as useful as 1 legged man in an ass kicking contest

SnP means that you can't run. In 5th it meant random movement.

Please re-read the rulebook. And your Ork codex. And the DA codex.

 FirePainter wrote:
I would just like to say that while I have no opinion on either side of this argument here is some food for thought.

In the grim darkness of the year 40,000 this edition has made the gun mightier than the sword like it should be. Lets consider: what should I do shoot, that guy who wants to kill me, from far away or should I run up and try to slice him apart with a sword?

While I still reserve judgement on fliers I think that complaining about the state of melee combat in a far future science fiction game is a bit silly.

With apologies, this argument is really tiresome. Firstly, this isn't a sci-fi game as much as it is a space fantasy, you know, like Star Wars. To compare this setting to any real futuristic warfare is laughable. Secondly, if the game is supposed to be 'more realistic' by being shooting-centric then why the stupid, cumbersome rules for challenges in close combat? Maybe if GW can ask themselves these questions they will eventually write better rules.

uberjoras wrote:
Thanks for this thread. It's been a long time since forum trolling has made me laugh this hard. Really, you've been arguing in circles for pages, and this guy just keeps making outlandish assertions about totally incorrect rules interpretations? That doesn't set off little bells and whistles in anybody's head?

Sadly, there are plenty of people who are in fact, really that dumb.

 amanita wrote:

 FirePainter wrote:
I would just like to say that while I have no opinion on either side of this argument here is some food for thought.

In the grim darkness of the year 40,000 this edition has made the gun mightier than the sword like it should be. Lets consider: what should I do shoot, that guy who wants to kill me, from far away or should I run up and try to slice him apart with a sword?

While I still reserve judgement on fliers I think that complaining about the state of melee combat in a far future science fiction game is a bit silly.

With apologies, this argument is really tiresome. Firstly, this isn't a sci-fi game as much as it is a space fantasy, you know, like Star Wars. To compare this setting to any real futuristic warfare is laughable. Secondly, if the game is supposed to be 'more realistic' by being shooting-centric then why the stupid, cumbersome rules for challenges in close combat? Maybe if GW can ask themselves these questions they will eventually write better rules.

I agree with you about why there should be CC and shooting in 40k, a lot of people however do not recognize that 40k is not really science fiction.


In general I think 6th edition is a huge step backward. All of the editions have their good and bad points but with 6th it feels like we are returning to a lot of the goofiness and awkwardness of 2nd edition. When thinking about how I would personally improve 40k, it usually boils down to just simply removing a lot of rules.

6th ed has been overall a boost to my performance as a tyranid player. Although our codex remains highly inflexible and unforgiving of mistakes and we must be very willing to absorb enormous amounts of losses. Compared to the misery of being a Tyranid player in a meta dominated by tanks in 5e this is a much better state of affairs. Winning against more modern codices is still a big uphill battle, and beating WAAC lists from said armies is going to have to take a tooth and claw struggle and more than a little luck, but at least now I don't spontaneously combust when pitted against grey knights with razorbacks and purifiers.

 Selym wrote:
Has anyone else noticed these following points about orkgoffrocker's posts?

-Complains about everything that he does not field.

-Bases his arguments purely on the mathematical fact that a hammernator can kill an ork.

-Acts like he can't ever use anything other than boyz mobs in a game.

-Acts like there is no such thing as cover.

Also:

orkgoffrocker wrote:


3) LOL Ghazkhull with the new Slow and Purposeful rule what is he going to do crawl after units at d6" a turn and then charge 3d6 pick the lowest, he is about as useful as 1 legged man in an ass kicking contest

SnP means that you can't run. In 5th it meant random movement.

Please re-read the rulebook. And your Ork codex. And the DA codex.

I dont have to field the unit to know how it works that may explan why you don't win games. At my club if anyone has the balls to call my list which they never were in 3rd, 4th or 5th ed. In 6ed the meta of the game is piss on fluff and make more thanks MaTT Ward

Hammernators are a real part of the game, 80% of armies that can have them do and with that horrible allied table to many xenos armies have them Tau, Orks, Necrons. IT not just the 3++ and DS that make the danger there are Super Hammernators, Blood Angels Hammernators have FNP and DS with only 1d6 scatter that is re-rolled, Deathwing Hammernators DS on 1st turn with no scatter and can have guns in the unit

Blood Angel Terminators scatter 2D6 unless there's a marker beacon, like everyone else...

orkgoffrocker-you keep insisting the fact everyone can now get hammernators as a game breaker, yet completely miss the point most armies don't even WANT them.

They are a good unit, but NOTHING MORE, they are not op, they are not game breakers, they are not impossible to kill, and they dont actually do alot of damage.

Sure, they can squish most stuff in assault, but as said, they need to freaking GET there, being slow as feth if they walk, or taking at the very least a full turn worth of free shooting if they deep strike.
And they cost you a metric ton! sure, you can throw 20 hammernators on me turn 1, but I can get 96 fire warriors for the same price (8 full squads)
And quick calculation will reveal that if you DS your 20 hammernators near them, they will kill slightly over half of them within the first shooting phase, then kill more on overwatch, and whatever remains will die on turn 2.
And FW are considered "not impressive", nor am I actually bringing any anti-terminator weapons or force multiplers, even a 50 point ethreal will bounce it to ~16 dead hammernators on turn 1.

Compare them to something like wraiths, and I'll choose to take on the hammernators every day. sure they dont have 2+ armor save, but 2+ dies in pain when outnumbered 4 or 5 to 1. (and armies like orks can outnumber them 10 to 1, rendering them even less of a threat)

Sure, they can take a beating, and they can deliver some strong melee hits, but they lack NUMBERS, and without numbers, all the high tech gimmicks in the world will lose.

orkgoffrocker wrote:

 Selym wrote:
Has anyone else noticed these following points about orkgoffrocker's posts?

-Complains about everything that he does not field.

-Bases his arguments purely on the mathematical fact that a hammernator can kill an ork.

-Acts like he can't ever use anything other than boyz mobs in a game.

-Acts like there is no such thing as cover.

Also:

orkgoffrocker wrote:


3) LOL Ghazkhull with the new Slow and Purposeful rule what is he going to do crawl after units at d6" a turn and then charge 3d6 pick the lowest, he is about as useful as 1 legged man in an ass kicking contest

SnP means that you can't run. In 5th it meant random movement.

Please re-read the rulebook. And your Ork codex. And the DA codex.

I dont have to field the unit to know how it works that may explan why you don't win games. At my club if anyone has the balls to call my list which they never were in 3rd, 4th or 5th ed. In 6ed the meta of the game is piss on fluff and make more thanks MaTT Ward

Hammernators are a real part of the game, 80% of armies that can have them do and with that horrible allied table to many xenos armies have them Tau, Orks, Necrons. IT not just the 3++ and DS that make the danger there are Super Hammernators, Blood Angels Hammernators have FNP and DS with only 1d6 scatter that is re-rolled, Deathwing Hammernators DS on 1st turn with no scatter and can have guns in the unit

I don't see how your magical ability to know how all units work makes me bad at gaming. And please stop making wild assertions that you cannot possibly have based on fact or experience.
The meta of 6th is to have troops on the field to hold objectives, whilst out maneuvering the opponent (usually in the form of fliers). If the meta was "cheese", then it would no longer be called "cheese", it would be called "normal".

Your "80%" statistic has no basis in reality. Did you do a study of the average WH40k army? No. You probably didn't. False facts cannot win an argument, and make you seem unintelligent.
Blood Angels have to pay for an entire new character/unit/model (whichever it is, I'm no expert) to get FnP, and the reduction of scatter is only if the buy a teleport homer. Which all marines can do.
Furthermore, if a terminator has a gun, it cannot be a "Hammernator", as it has no hammer.

 Selym wrote:

orkgoffrocker wrote:

 Selym wrote:
Has anyone else noticed these following points about orkgoffrocker's posts?

-Complains about everything that he does not field.

-Bases his arguments purely on the mathematical fact that a hammernator can kill an ork.

-Acts like he can't ever use anything other than boyz mobs in a game.

-Acts like there is no such thing as cover.

Also:

orkgoffrocker wrote:


3) LOL Ghazkhull with the new Slow and Purposeful rule what is he going to do crawl after units at d6" a turn and then charge 3d6 pick the lowest, he is about as useful as 1 legged man in an ass kicking contest

SnP means that you can't run. In 5th it meant random movement.

Please re-read the rulebook. And your Ork codex. And the DA codex.

I dont have to field the unit to know how it works that may explan why you don't win games. At my club if anyone has the balls to call my list which they never were in 3rd, 4th or 5th ed. In 6ed the meta of the game is piss on fluff and make more thanks MaTT Ward

Hammernators are a real part of the game, 80% of armies that can have them do and with that horrible allied table to many xenos armies have them Tau, Orks, Necrons. IT not just the 3++ and DS that make the danger there are Super Hammernators, Blood Angels Hammernators have FNP and DS with only 1d6 scatter that is re-rolled, Deathwing Hammernators DS on 1st turn with no scatter and can have guns in the unit

I don't see how your magical ability to know how all units work makes me bad at gaming. And please stop making wild assertions that you cannot possibly have based on fact or experience.
The meta of 6th is to have troops on the field to hold objectives, whilst out maneuvering the opponent (usually in the form of fliers). If the meta was "cheese", then it would no longer be called "cheese", it would be called "normal".

Your "80%" statistic has no basis in reality. Did you do a study of the average WH40k army? No. You probably didn't. False facts cannot win an argument, and make you seem unintelligent.
Blood Angels have to pay for an entire new character/unit/model (whichever it is, I'm no expert) to get FnP, and the reduction of scatter is only if the buy a teleport homer. Which all marines can do.
Furthermore, if a terminator has a gun, it cannot be a "Hammernator", as it has no hammer.

I don't know what's more frightening that he's this committed to trolling or that he may just really be this stupid.

 Kain wrote:

 Selym wrote:

orkgoffrocker wrote:

 Selym wrote:
Has anyone else noticed these following points about orkgoffrocker's posts?

-Complains about everything that he does not field.

-Bases his arguments purely on the mathematical fact that a hammernator can kill an ork.

-Acts like he can't ever use anything other than boyz mobs in a game.

-Acts like there is no such thing as cover.

Also:

orkgoffrocker wrote:


3) LOL Ghazkhull with the new Slow and Purposeful rule what is he going to do crawl after units at d6" a turn and then charge 3d6 pick the lowest, he is about as useful as 1 legged man in an ass kicking contest

SnP means that you can't run. In 5th it meant random movement.

Please re-read the rulebook. And your Ork codex. And the DA codex.

I dont have to field the unit to know how it works that may explan why you don't win games. At my club if anyone has the balls to call my list which they never were in 3rd, 4th or 5th ed. In 6ed the meta of the game is piss on fluff and make more thanks MaTT Ward

Hammernators are a real part of the game, 80% of armies that can have them do and with that horrible allied table to many xenos armies have them Tau, Orks, Necrons. IT not just the 3++ and DS that make the danger there are Super Hammernators, Blood Angels Hammernators have FNP and DS with only 1d6 scatter that is re-rolled, Deathwing Hammernators DS on 1st turn with no scatter and can have guns in the unit

I don't see how your magical ability to know how all units work makes me bad at gaming. And please stop making wild assertions that you cannot possibly have based on fact or experience.
The meta of 6th is to have troops on the field to hold objectives, whilst out maneuvering the opponent (usually in the form of fliers). If the meta was "cheese", then it would no longer be called "cheese", it would be called "normal".

Your "80%" statistic has no basis in reality. Did you do a study of the average WH40k army? No. You probably didn't. False facts cannot win an argument, and make you seem unintelligent.
Blood Angels have to pay for an entire new character/unit/model (whichever it is, I'm no expert) to get FnP, and the reduction of scatter is only if the buy a teleport homer. Which all marines can do.
Furthermore, if a terminator has a gun, it cannot be a "Hammernator", as it has no hammer.

I don't know what's more frightening that he's this committed to trolling or that he may just really be this stupid.

I'd prefer him to be a troll. That way I'd never have to put up with this level of fail IRL.

 Kain wrote:
6th ed has been overall a boost to my performance as a tyranid player. Although our codex remains highly inflexible and unforgiving of mistakes and we must be very willing to absorb enormous amounts of losses. Compared to the misery of being a Tyranid player in a meta dominated by tanks in 5e this is a much better state of affairs. Winning against more modern codices is still a big uphill battle, and beating WAAC lists from said armies is going to have to take a tooth and claw struggle and more than a little luck, but at least now I don't spontaneously combust when pitted against grey knights with razorbacks and purifiers.

The real, obvious answer to a pretty bad Tyranid codex is to fix the codex. The core rules of 6th Ed. are just as convoluted as the worst things in 5th, they are simply different...and just happen to favor some specific Tyranid builds. That hardly is a ringing endorsement.

 amanita wrote:

 Kain wrote:
6th ed has been overall a boost to my performance as a tyranid player. Although our codex remains highly inflexible and unforgiving of mistakes and we must be very willing to absorb enormous amounts of losses. Compared to the misery of being a Tyranid player in a meta dominated by tanks in 5e this is a much better state of affairs. Winning against more modern codices is still a big uphill battle, and beating WAAC lists from said armies is going to have to take a tooth and claw struggle and more than a little luck, but at least now I don't spontaneously combust when pitted against grey knights with razorbacks and purifiers.

The real, obvious answer to a pretty bad Tyranid codex is to fix the codex. The core rules of 6th Ed. are just as convoluted as the worst things in 5th, they are simply different...and just happen to favor some specific Tyranid builds. That hardly is a ringing endorsement.

Hey in 5th ed the only winning move a Tyranid army had against a tailor'd Grey Knight or Dark Eldar list was to bend over and hope they were gentle lovers. At least now it's not quite as painful anymore.

And a better codex would fix that, right? Why is there a need to rely on random, wonky mechanics to level the playing field?

 amanita wrote:
And a better codex would fix that, right? Why is there a need to rely on random, wonky mechanics to level the playing field?

Ideally codices would be living documents constantly updated and patched. In reality we can only get them every so often, and typically a new edition comes out a good deal before a new codex for an army does. So in the mean time a new edition should try to regulate some egregarious imbalances that existed before hand until a new codex can fully patch things up.

On that, I do agree. Still, it's like putting a band-aid on a compound fracture.

 amanita wrote:
On that, I do agree. Still, it's like putting a band-aid on a compound fracture.

Think of it as first aid delivered on the way to the operation room.

My concern is that I have little confidence in the doctor.