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Who's talking about moral highgrounds here besides you d-usa? Or are you really trying to argue that meat production vs vegetable production is less environmentally harmful? Because your wrong.

Ah more or the story from the BBC

Findus (the company making the ready meals) apparently knew they had major horse contamination for a whole week before they acted to either tell anybody, or withdraw the misslabled stock from sale

And the government says the food standards agency will test EVERY processed beef product on sale in the next week

(I just don't believe this is possible, even if they sampled only a single item of each type, and for this sort of thing you need many samples over lots of batches of product)

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:
Who's talking about moral highgrounds here besides you d-usa? Or are you really trying to argue that meat production vs vegetable production is less environmentally harmful? Because your wrong.

1) If it's not about moral high grounds, then why does it matter if it is environmentally harmful?
2) Eating locally grown and sustainable foods (including meat) can be better for the environment than eating vegetarian if your food is being shipped/flown/trucked from all over the world and produced under who knows what conditions.

Given the choice between a meat eater and a vegetarian that both don't care where their food comes from and how it is farmed, I will say both aren't doing anything at all for the environment. But one of them will pat themselves on the shoulder more often.

 d-usa wrote:

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:
Who's talking about moral highgrounds here besides you d-usa? Or are you really trying to argue that meat production vs vegetable production is less environmentally harmful? Because your wrong.

1) If it's not about moral high grounds, then why does it matter if it is environmentally harmful?
2) Eating locally grown and sustainable foods (including meat) can be better for the environment than eating vegetarian if your food is being shipped/flown/trucked from all over the world and produced under who knows what conditions.

Given the choice between a meat eater and a vegetarian that both don't care where their food comes from and how it is farmed, I will say both aren't doing anything at all for the environment. But one of them will pat themselves on the shoulder more often.

So I have to think I'm on a moral high ground to care about the environment? Did you miss the part where I talked earlier about how I try to eat as much locally sourced meat as I can? Or are you just trying to argue for the sake of arguing because you're from cattle country?

And if you understood the difference between how much energy is put into growing meat vs growing vegetables you'd see that indeed there is a difference between vegetarian and meat heavy diets, locally sourced or no. I really don't know what you're trying to argue here, other than you probably have met a preachy vegetarian in your life and want to lump them all together so you can feel better about yourself and say "well least im not preachy"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I'm sorry but your equivalence with morality and environmental conservation is just really asinine. I don't volunteer for trail cleanups, compost organics, ride my bike and recycle so I can feel better than others. I do it because it has to be done.

Hey, if you want to believe that moving down a rain forest to grow soy beans, building shanty-towns for the labor, putting them on a giant boat to ship to the US, then put them on a truck to ship to a processing plant, then to Wal-Mart, then to my house has less of an environmental impact than a half side of cow that was grown organically a few counties over then more power to you.

All I am saying is that it is not as simple as vegetarianism = environmentally friendly. A study from the WWF agrees with that.

Can vegetarianism be more environmentally friendly than eating meat. Yes it can. Can people who include meat as part of their diet be environmentally friendly and decrease their impact on the environment by a bunch? Yes they can.

Us carnivores can also care about the environment. I take your "I do good stuff because it has to be done, not to make me feel better" and just say that I can do the same with some beef jerky in my pocket. Does that make me less good?

And to bring it back on-topic:

If I go to my local farmer and pick out a cow from the field, I can be pretty sure that it's not a horse.

If Findus' Lasagne contain's horse meat, then I'm not sure I want to know what is in the crispy pancakes....

 d-usa wrote:
Hey, if you want to believe that moving down a rain forest to grow soy beans, building shanty-towns for the labor, putting them on a giant boat to ship to the US, then put them on a truck to ship to a processing plant, then to Wal-Mart, then to my house has less of an environmental impact than a half side of cow that was grown organically a few counties over then more power to you.

All I am saying is that it is not as simple as vegetarianism = environmentally friendly. A study from the WWF agrees with that.

Can vegetarianism be more environmentally friendly than eating meat. Yes it can. Can people who include meat as part of their diet be environmentally friendly and decrease their impact on the environment by a bunch? Yes they can.

And to bring it back on-topic:

If I go to my local farmer and pick out a cow from the field, I can be pretty sure that it's not a horse.

Where are you even getting this from my posts? So the same cleared rainforest area that was cleared for cattle production is somehow any more environmentally sounds? Or that a local cow takes less energy to produce than a local head of lettuce? No idea what your getting at.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Obviously if you compare locally grown meat to globally grown produce there is going to be a big energy deficit, but those are two seperate things. Locally grown meat and vegetables and globally grown are what you should be comparing. And you'll find there that more energy by far is needed to grow meat.

It's pretty simple really:

1) Vegeterianism =/= automatically being more environmentally friendly than eating meat.
2) Locally grown food always has less of an environmental impact than anything grown further away.

I'm not attacking you. I'm simply saying that simply being vegetarian doesn't automatically make the environment better.

And to keep it on-topic:

Horse is tasty. People should try it. Good sausage can be made from it.

And I said vegetarianism = environmentally better automatically where exactly? Would you care to elucidate on how when not comparing locally grown to globally grown that meat rich diets are healthier environmentally vs vegetable rich diets?

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:

Obviously if you compare locally grown meat to globally grown produce there is going to be a big energy deficit, but those are two seperate things. Locally grown meat and vegetables and globally grown are what you should be comparing. And you'll find there that more energy by far is needed to grow meat.

And local meat to global vegetables is what I have been comparing. The WWF has released a study that locally grown meat has less of an environmental impact than globally grown produce.

I eat local meat for that purpose.

1) I want to know that my meat is raised humanely. Just because I eat it doesn't mean I don't care about it.
2) I want to decrease my environmental impact.

Am I doing 100% of everything I possibly could to save the environment? Nope, I admit that at some point my laziness wins out. But I try to do a lot. I'm not going to give up meat, but I try to be responsible about my sources.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:
And I said vegetarianism = environmentally better automatically where exactly? Would you care to elucidate on how when not comparing locally grown to globally grown that meat rich diets are healthier environmentally vs vegetable rich diets?

And where does the story in the OP have anything to do with vegetarians to begin with?

Don't complain about something going a bit off-topic from something you posted when you interrupt a "I thought I was eating tasty cow but I was eating tasty horse" thread with "shouldn't eat meat".

 d-usa wrote:

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:

Obviously if you compare locally grown meat to globally grown produce there is going to be a big energy deficit, but those are two seperate things. Locally grown meat and vegetables and globally grown are what you should be comparing. And you'll find there that more energy by far is needed to grow meat.

And local meat to global vegetables is what I have been comparing. The WWF has released a study that locally grown meat has less of an environmental impact than globally grown produce.

I eat local meat for that purpose.

1) I want to know that my meat is raised humanely. Just because I eat it doesn't mean I don't care about it.
2) I want to decrease my environmental impact.

Am I doing 100% of everything I possibly could to save the environment? Nope, I admit that at some point my laziness wins out. But I try to do a lot. I'm not going to give up meat, but I try to be responsible about my sources.

And you're comparing things that aren't what this thread is about. Horse meat being sold as beef doesn't come from locally sourced meat, it's a product to voracious demands for vast quantities of meat. If you're trying to as much local as possible like I do then were arguing over nothing. I explicitly said I wouldn't give up meat and wouldn't expect that from anyone else. It sounds like you're already doing the things I said were a good idea, hence why I don;t know why you felt the need to refute the claim I never said about vegetarianism being automatically environmentally better than meat rich diets.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I never said don't eat meat. I said things like this happen because of such high demands for low price, low quality meat. I

 d-usa wrote:
It's pretty simple really:

1) Vegeterianism =/= automatically being more environmentally friendly than eating meat.
2) Locally grown food always has less of an environmental impact than anything grown further away.

I'm not attacking you. I'm simply saying that simply being vegetarian doesn't automatically make the environment better.

QFT! I know vegetarians/vegens... and man they fart up a storm!

And to keep it on-topic:

Horse is tasty. People should try it. Good sausage can be made from it.

Horse is very tasty! But, I'm an unabashed carnivore!

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:

And you're comparing things that aren't what this thread is about.

I'm just going to let this sit here...

You post:

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:
Now just imagine how high quality the meat is you eat in Slim Jims, 5 dollar pepperoni pizzas, and 1 dollar double Cheeseburgers.

I won't push for anyone to go vegetarian but I do say people should eat a lot less meat. You really don't need it with every meal, every day. Better for your body and better for the planet, srsly.

Which has nothing to do with horse meat instead of cow meat thread.

Don't complain that your derail has been derailed.

 d-usa wrote:

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:

And you're comparing things that aren't what this thread is about.

I'm just going to let this sit here...

You post:

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:
Now just imagine how high quality the meat is you eat in Slim Jims, 5 dollar pepperoni pizzas, and 1 dollar double Cheeseburgers.

I won't push for anyone to go vegetarian but I do say people should eat a lot less meat. You really don't need it with every meal, every day. Better for your body and better for the planet, srsly.

Which has nothing to do with horse meat instead of cow meat thread.

Don't complain that your derail has been derailed.

See I see that as relevant. I guess in my mind I can only see horse meat being labeled as beef because companies are selling incredibly low grade beef to satiate demands. And really how low grade of beef does it have to be that i can be confused with horse? Only in highly processed, low price meat, which all of my listed examples are made of.

Yeah, I've really not got a huge amount of sympathy here. Sure, 100% horse is... err... Not right.

However,

Findus Beef Lasagna costs 75 pence for a meal. I believe they are often sold as 2 meals for £1 or so. What are you *really* going to expect for that price?

I had the misfortune once of really wanting some macaroni and cheese one day, with the only one available being a Tesco Value brand. It cost about 37 pence and tasted like cardboard Maybe my testbuds are more accurate than I think they are?

 filbert wrote:
If Findus' Lasagne contain's horse meat, then I'm not sure I want to know what is in the crispy pancakes....

The outside is just as bad.

Still tasty as an after pub scoff though.

I really do think that with food so commoditized at the moment that unscrupulous suppliers will try any trick to make a bigger buck. Delving a bit deeper would probably put me off eating anything.

I think I might have lasagna tonight.

With some fava beans and a nice chianti.

Didn't we just have a UK horse meat thread like a month ago? Y'all's FDA equivalent must be napping.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Didn't we just have a UK horse meat thread like a month ago? Y'all's FDA equivalent must be napping.

This only came to light because the Irish food standards agency started to do genetic testing on processed meat products and found horse and pig meat in 'beef 'burgers a few weeks ago. Thats the only reason why it was found and once it was other people started to do the same tests and inevitably found that the issue is a lot more widespread.

I am all but certain that this happens all over the world and has been for years. I am just waiting for dog meat to turn up in McDonalds burgers......

Dog meat? That's tame! I'm expecting Gorilla tale or tiger penis in my Big Mac.

Tomorrow=soilent green.

All I can say is Yum. I've had horse. Tasty.

True story down here in Australia, we have brumby culls (wild horses) and some of the locals now sell the meat commercially, and make quite the buck.

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:
Alf just go watch any of the hundred or so documentaries on factory farms and if you've cut out red meat you'll feel better about yourself for at least a few days lol.

It's not an overnight process at all. I feel better like I said, but I still feel like making a bacon bomb, stuffing it into a deep-fried turkey, wrapping that in bacon, and topping it with grilled steaks too. It's a process. Though I have learned how to enjoy tofu finally. The key is learning how to cook it yourself.

You definitely have a point. I used to work on a hog farm and a help out lot with cattle when I lived in Iowa and you couldn't get me to eat pig meat for years after. Those bastards are vicious and can tear you up in a heartbeat if they want to.

 Doctadeth wrote:
All I can say is Yum. I've had horse. Tasty.

True story down here in Australia, we have brumby culls (wild horses) and some of the locals now sell the meat commercially, and make quite the buck.

Why would you eat horse when you can eat ROO!? What's wrong with you man?

Yeah, Kangaroo actually tastes awesome . . .

 filbert wrote:
If Findus' Lasagne contain's horse meat, then I'm not sure I want to know what is in the crispy pancakes....

They should let me cook em, I've been told my batter is delicious!!

Ostrich burgers are good.
Crocodile is weird - looks like fish, tastes like fish...texture of Beef!
Bison - too lean for a burger really.
Venison - very good burger.
Wild Boar - best burger I've ever had.

I'm on a half a***d mission to try as many animals in burger form as possible.
I can cross horse off the list now...

And Findus crispy pancakes - fantastic in a drunk sandwich.

I almost got to have a lion burger. A restaurant in Phoenix had them as a special during the world cup. I had them set one aside for me.... then the day I was going up *bam* "KM! We need you to stand duty!" my dreams of delicious tasty predator snatched from my hands.

You were nearly a man eating lion.

badpunshudder...

 filbert wrote:
If Findus' Lasagne contain's horse meat, then I'm not sure I want to know what is in the crispy pancakes....

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