Tau Lore

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**Savageconvoy**

Ok. Going back, I see that I misread it. Though I don't really see that side either. I haven't seen many Tau players or fans assume that the Tau could win by any other means of holding up and waiting for the rest of the galaxy to kill itself.

**Soo'Vah'Cha**

There has been a few , and when I find them I am quick to reign in the misguided enthusiasim

I started playing the Tau due to my dislike of CC in 40k just got tired of all the melee, so I wanted to do a primary shooting army with a glaring weakness, and over time come to enjoy the fluff as well (I have been in this hobby along time) and was kinda weary of the constant grimdarkness of everything else, kinda wanted a change of water but still stay in the pool so to speak.

And it kept me interested in the game, made me work on Orks and IG and even some marines, so it was a good thing.

But there are some posters on here that will eventually show up in any tau related thread regardless of content, and have to cause trouble, and its fine when maybe its a thread comparing 2 groups or saying such and such is the greatest, but it will happen even in threads were tau only subjects are discussed, just seems pointless and juvenile, and saps alot of the energy from what is mostly a creative hobby.

That was the juxt of Kroothawks warning.

**fleet of claw**

TheKoop wrote:
and they're frankly under powered in the game itself.

LOL, I can't control myself, sorry. Tau aren't UP, they are UR, if not OP. Try half a dozen Fire Warrior squads and Broadsides and you will see how powerful they are. Fire Warriors can obliterate anything with the assistance of a few markerlights, the high strength of their pulse rifles ensuring a few kills.

It is all tactics my friend.

He who fails to plan, plans to fail

**Sir Pseudonymous**

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
You make a great deal of assumptions on the Tau economy, we have no idea how much it takes in resources of the Tau empire to build a pulse rifle, battlesuit or pair of trousers, comparisons of scale are only valid when facts are known , and GW releases no hard facts just suposition.

On another site it was advanced that the tau firewarrior backpack has two slots for the recharging of the pulse rifles energy cells, since it kinda looked that way on the model, no fluff to support just a speculation, and frankly is as valid as any discussion on how much it cost to build a imaginary weapon by a imaginary space race.

Technically speaking (and only citing game stats since its the only ruler for comparison we have in this case) a pulse rifle out ranges, out powers and out penetrates a lasgun (by all stats) and is a standard weapon in their military, the laws of logistics are irrelevant in saying something
is more advanced tech-wise, but is relevant when deciding what is a better peice of kit for a OP.

And as to robustness and bulk, its long and slim, and the las rifle is blocky and medium length, the models likely do not give proper dimesions, since all GW minis make the weapons really out of scale, for the rule of cool, likely the pulse carbine is the Tau CQB weapon of coice when the battle gets tight.

for all we know of the Tau economy all its goods could be churned out of a drone ran factory at a prodigious rate, its only the lack of Tau to fill boots that limits their battlefield footprint, again we have no facts, other than game stats in this regard.

I've seen the size comparison backed up by thorough analysis of given statistics and stats from the Deathwatch RPG a very long time ago, but I don't have the numbers handy.

It just occurred to me that the Tau seem roughly parallel to the earliest human expansion, before the golden age. That would actually be a quite interesting angle for them: primitive but rapidly expanding/changing technology versus the reconstructed remnants of what was basically Sufficiently Advanced Technology . Instead ofr just painting them as wonderful and special prodigies who are just so much better that they went from stone age hunter-gatherers to more advanced and savvy than an Empire that's had more than twice as long as they've even had pointy sticks to refine and improve upon their technology (note that the AdMech actually does this, just with considerable caution and all the difficulty that trying to improve upon something that was already nearly perfect for its role) and way of waging war.

**Soo'Vah'Cha**

Deathwatch RPG also states that the Tau have developed a cure for genestealer taint (that does not kill the recipient) so that series of books is very loose and fast with 40k established facts, take that as it will.

Maybe they did find a relic of advanced tech to start their grope for the stars, maybe they did not, they are not humans so applying human technological advance history is also a flawed approach.

Maybe they are just a focused bright race that advances quickly, not everything in the galaxy obeys the same rules (See : ORK ), be that as it may in the scope of the game its irelavent since it will never be 41k, so yes the Tau advanced futher faster than humans in their history relative to time (4,000 years) so what!
It is just another patch in 40ks universal quilt of weirdness.

Or for all you IoM fanatics out there its a abject lesson in why you gotta wipe out all the little xenos you find when you find them, cause you never know....

**Savageconvoy**

fleet of claw wrote:

LOL, I can't control myself, sorry. Tau aren't UP, they are UR, if not OP. Try half a dozen Fire Warrior squads and Broadsides and you will see how powerful they are. Fire Warriors can obliterate anything with the assistance of a few markerlights, the high strength of their pulse rifles ensuring a few kills.

Really all FW will get is a few kills. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/498015.page
To sum up a dozen pages of arguments about FW, they're junk on the table top. Bringing more junk doesn't fix that.

It's a shame too, because they are so poorly translated onto the table top. In Rogue Trader the rpg my favorite weapon was the Pulse Rifle just due to it's incredible range and it hit as hard as a heavy weapon without any drawbacks.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
Or for all you IoM fanatics out there its a abject lesson in why you gotta wipe out all the little xenos you find when you find them, cause you never know....

Especially with the rumor that the Tau Empire is joining up with many alien races the IoM fought against and are posing a serious threat. Wouldn't be a fluff change nearly as large as the Necrons and very fitting I think.

**fleet of claw**

To sum up a dozen pages of arguments about FW, they're junk on the table top. Bringing more junk doesn't fix that.
To sum up a dozen pages of arguments about FW, they're junk on the table top. Bringing more junk doesn't fix that.

FW are definitely not junk. Especially against Orks, Imperial Guard and Tryanids their guns obliterate everything. The high strength and the fact that they are ignoring armour saves added to the incredible range is not something to be sniffed at.

Bringing more junk doesn't fix that.

People bring lots of Guardsman don't they? They bring lots of Ork Boyz, they bring lots of gaunts as well. Please tell me how having more of them doesn't change how bad they are.

**Psienesis**

Quantity is a Quality all its own

**Savageconvoy**

fleet of claw wrote:

FW are definitely not junk. Especially against Orks, Imperial Guard and Tryanids their guns obliterate everything. The high strength and the fact that they are ignoring armour saves added to the incredible range is not something to be sniffed at.

So against 3/15 armies that aren't even the standard they're good? Check out the thread I linked, plenty of numbers tossed out to show that they are quite weak for troops. And 30" is not an incredible range. Not when they shoot 30", enemy moves up to 24" and are now in their range to return fire.

People bring lots of Guardsman don't they? They bring lots of Ork Boyz, they bring lots of gaunts as well. Please tell me how having more of them doesn't change how bad they are.

Again, check out the thread. Basically IG and Ork Boyz are cheaper and tougher due to higher numbers and better leadership. Tau only manage to have a higher strength basic gun, but lose out on special and heavy weapons.
Having more FW basically just means you're using more points that could be spent on "not Firewarriors"

Back on topic: The rumor mill has been rather silent about what direction Tau fluff will go. I really hope that we will see some actual answers about Tau as opposed to the standard "Vespid have a communicator helmet.... or is it I mind control helmet. I don't know... I'm just asking questions" attitude.

**Archonate**

Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
there is probably nothing wrong with how fluff and Tau are represented there,( PS2 game) right?

Here's what's wrong with how the Tau are represented in that game:

Space Marines sneaking up on an Ethereal? Horribly unlikely.
An Ethereal traipsing about with naught but a couple Firewarriors guarding him? Unlikely, though maybe not impossible.
Firewarriors' slack-jawed reaction to an attack, without getting a single shot off? These guys are military trained their entire lives...
Firewarriors dying from a single bolter round to the chest? Their armor stops bolter rounds, and they got shot right where it would be thickest...

And that's just the opening cinematic.

Bolters being superior to Pulse Rifles? Now we all know that's nonsense.

On the other hand, FWs don't have rechargeable personal shields like the Master Chief and Medipacks aren't magic life savers.

But if we're talking about games that give horrifically unlikely portrayals of the protagonist, Firewarrior game has got nothing on the Space Marine game...

**KingDeath**

fleet of claw wrote:

To sum up a dozen pages of arguments about FW, they're junk on the table top. Bringing more junk doesn't fix that.
To sum up a dozen pages of arguments about FW, they're junk on the table top. Bringing more junk doesn't fix that.

FW are definitely not junk. Especially against Orks, Imperial Guard and Tryanids their guns obliterate everything. The high strength and the fact that they are ignoring armour saves added to the incredible range is not something to be sniffed at.

Firewarriors are about as killy as boltermarines. Of course, they also die like flies ( bad for a rather expensive troopchoice ) and fold in melee to anything but grots.
This basicaly means that Firewarriors, unlike Guardsmen ( which are at least cheap and can therefore adequately fulfill their role as a troopchoice ) do in fact suck.

**Archonate**

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:The point was that, technically speaking, the lasgun is the more sophisticated piece of engineering

What an odd thing to say considering we have the technology for a lasgun right now, whereas the technology for something like the pulse rifle is far beyond modern tech. It operates on similar principal to a Railgun, with ammo approaching a velocity near the speed of light, only the ferromagnetic bullet somehow maintains a charge of plasma around it. The pulse rifle is powered by a rechargeable battery. Two replacement batteries are indeed in the charger on the FWs pack. The ammo clip (which is quite small and easily carried in quantity.) holds up to 400 rounds, and bear in mind, the pulse rifle fires at 1/3 the rate of a bolter, (yet still does more damage.)
Here's my source btw: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Pulse_Rifle

not that pulse rifles aren't appropriate to any situation. The Tau's needs in a combat situation are far different than the Imperium's,

Not really. They just have a far better gun.
Fun fact: The Pulse Rifle is actually lighter and better balanced than the lasgun. (Source: the Fire Warrior game. I know, I know, say what you will about a FW killing marines, but GW itself oversaw the 40k fluff aspect of the game.)

so the Tau's fielding of large numbers of pricier gear, that's somewhat bulkier and less resilient than its Imperial counterparts, shouldn't be taken as a matter of being more advanced, only less pressed for massive quantities of gear and with shorter supply lines.

You just made that up. Pulse Rifles are and will continue to be produced 'en' as much 'masse' as is needed.
Think of the Earth Caste as the AdMech, (only without being held back by hokey superstitions and other hoodoo nonsense.)

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote: On another site it was advanced that the tau firewarrior backpack has two slots for the recharging of the pulse rifles energy cells, since it kinda looked that way on the model, no fluff to support just a speculation, and frankly is as valid as any discussion on how much it cost to build a imaginary weapon by a imaginary space race.

It is indeed true. See my link above, second paragraph under 'Operation'

**fleet of claw**

Here's my source btw: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Pulse_Rifle

God that ad

**Shlazaor**

fleet of claw wrote:

Here's my source btw: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Pulse_Rifle

God that ad

The sources the article used are legit at least.

**SomeRandomEvilGuy**

Archonate wrote:

Here's my source btw: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Pulse_Rifle

Standard point about that wiki being extremely unreliable. There is a lot of made up stuff on it. Lexicanum is a lot better, but not perfect.

**fleet of claw**

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
Archonate wrote:

Here's my source btw: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Pulse_Rifle

Standard point about that wiki being extremely unreliable. There is a lot of made up stuff on it. Lexicanum is a lot better, but not perfect.

If you doubt the integrity of the page, check out the sources. These ones are trustworthy

**rems01**

Yes those sources are trustworthy but the article is making extrapolations not referenced in said sources. Notice how there's no citation, the wiki is paraphrasing at best and putting the authors own interpretation in.

Only trust a source if you have the direct text.

**TheKoop**

Hey guys! Sorry I dropped out of the conversation, but I am just so stoked by the new Tau remake, new codex and units! How do you guys think this will affect the lore? Has anyone read the two Tau centered novels yet?

**Corporal_Reznov**

Kroothawk wrote:

6.) Deathwatch RPG books: Tau and their human allies are one of the enemies of the player characters. Controversial about how canonical the information is, given that it is written by FFG, that Tau are the foe, that the sector is isolated and human dominated.

As Lynata loves to continually irritatinly point out, 40k has no canon system.

Anyway, here is what i have to say about this:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
I voted for "Rulebook + Codexes + Black Library + FFG + DOW, etc" cause it and "Everything... yet nothing" are the same.

Anyway I will put this to you, the 6th edition rulebook has this on the galaxy map:

As you can see, the galaxy map has the Calixis sector on it. Calixis sector was created by FFG(actually Black Industries). FFG features the Blood Ravens and Red Scorpion in their Deathwatch rpg. They will also feature the Tanith First and Only in their Only War rpg.

The Different FFG settings are all linked together. Blood Ravens are from the DOW games. Red Scorpions are from FW. Tanith first and only are from BL.

So ergo, All FFG material, FW, DOW and BL are canon.

The only thing I have an exception in not taking is the crap written by Goto. I will accept it, with reluctance! I believe in taking the video game fluff as was shown in the video games over the novels written by Goto for the video games.

Anyway, new fluff takes precedence and even retcons older fluff.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
Only going to say this once, keep your suggestions as to what other people should do, to yourself.

And as to recomending a computer game for Lore on a tabletop game is kinda stupid, since the only thing these games truly have in common is names and images, endings, background and all are created by different companies for differing needs, but hey think and believe what you want, the OP wanted sources and thats what we provided, you on the other hand are a troll.

Good day.

See above.

Savageconvoy wrote:
How are the Tau Mary Sues? They are a race of short lived, focused people. They didn't have the same issues that stunted humanities development and advanced quickly compared to other races.

Now a Mary Sue would be someone that's the best of the best becoming a Space Marine, and not just any Space Marine. A Grey Knight! Then managing to run a one man war against deamonic forces from inside the warp.

I don't think you understand what the term Mary Sue means.

So what if they have short lives? That doesn't affect them negatively at all.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have to ask, do you Tau players really, seriously need to know the Tau alphabet and crap?

Are the Tau the new Mandalorians or Klingons here?

**Anfauglir**

TheKoop wrote:
Has anyone read the two Tau centered novels yet?

Apparently they're just another two Imperial-centric stories slapped with Tau titles. Althought the Shadowsun novella is supposed to actually focus on the Tau, I hear.

**Kroothawk**

Just wanted to say, that the new Tau Codex is a very fine read for anyone interested in Tau lore. Everything is expanded, and in a respectful way.

On the novels: The Greater Good is a waste. Half through with Fire Caste: Nice read, but so far almost purely IG, even then more Tau appearance than in Greater Good.

**Soo'Vah'Cha**

good to hear, and now I will be going dark on almost all new codex Tau related threads, I want to just enjoy my read when it finally gets to me.

Already to many people saying such and such is the only thing that will be good...harshing my zen thing you know.

**Manchu**

Kroothawk wrote:
Just wanted to say, that the new Tau Codex is a very fine read for anyone interested in Tau lore. Everything is expanded, and in a respectful way.

Awesome news! Cannot wait to read it.

**1hadhq**

Its beneficial if you take Mr Vetocks hint in the WD article serious and read between the lines.

**jareddm**

1hadhq wrote:
Its beneficial if you take Mr Vetocks hint in the WD article serious and read between the lines.

For those of us without access to the WD, would you be so kind as to elaborate?

**1hadhq**

WD / design studio / vetock / background.

He hints at the age of O'Shovah for example and tells us to find the subtle things in the dex.

If you really need to know now:

Spoiler:

The first two pages of the codex are:

Spoiler:

Looking forward to the activity of the background forums when people had time to read the dex.

I'd suggest to take your time. Its easy to miss a few things.

**Kroothawk**

Don't miss reading the lines as well

**1hadhq**

Hits : 80% Misses : 20 %

Rest assured, it wasn't the pics fault.

Liked the start, then ran into Mary Sue Shadowsun...
But we really should wait for the fans.

**MajorStoffer**

I was concerned they were going to significantly increase the relative fluff power of the Tau, but it seems my fears were unfounded.

They're still a tiny speck, requiring several level of zoom to see with no FTL capacity equivalent to other races, and almost completely ignorant of the true scale of the Imperium.

What's odd though is there's no explanation for the Marine-Tau Battlebrother alliance capacity; we were hearing rumours of rediscovered information indicating the Tau were identified by the Big E back in the day, and the Ultramarines would become involved in trying to keep the Tau alive, to be used against the forces of Chaos due to their immunity to corruption, but there's no evidence of that anywhere that I saw. By all accounts, the codex paints the Imperium and Tau as more antagonistic than ever, with higher Imperial authorities starting to take notice of this upstart race, and planning for their destruction.

**Harriticus**

MajorStoffer wrote:

What's odd though is there's no explanation for the Marine-Tau Battlebrother alliance capacity; we were hearing rumours of rediscovered information indicating the Tau were identified by the Big E back in the day, and the Ultramarines would become involved in trying to keep the Tau alive, to be used against the forces of Chaos due to their immunity to corruption, but there's no evidence of that anywhere that I saw. By all accounts, the codex paints the Imperium and Tau as more antagonistic than ever, with higher Imperial authorities starting to take notice of this upstart race, and planning for their destruction.

Thank god. That makes no sense from a fluff perspective and having the Tau some miracle race of the Emperor under the protection of the mary-stu Ultramarines was frustrating. I am happy it's just a gameplay-only mechanic

In any regard, after reading through the fluff, Vehtock handles fluff a lot better then Ward. He was able to add new stuff (Great War of Confederation, stasis tech, backstories for Aun'va, much greater detail of the Spheres of Expansion) in a way that didn't make the Tau lose their identity (Necrons) or come off as ridiculous (Space Marines).

Though it's unfortunate the Demirug aren't mentioned once. I think GW wanted to erase them from the lore. Lots of new races are talked about: Nagi, Greet, Anthrazods, Branchyura, Formosians.