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Phydox wrote:
It blows my mind how much hate there is for GW. Its really sad/laughable they just don't get it. I can't think of any other company in the same situation. Its not like the product they make is a necessity (I know I'm gonna get flack for that comment ) People hate on Big Oil but you still have to put gas in your car and heat your home (Unless you spend some serious cash to upgrade). People just take every opportunity to Hate on GW when they can just walk away. There's so many games just as good. Haters love to hate on GW.

Don't confuse hate for some people who are tired of the way GW is doing their business.

I like the fluff that GW has created and still find myself looking back and wishing I enjoyed the game more. OTOH, I dislike GW as a business and their bad move after bad move and their school-yard-bullying way about things.

It is quite ashame GW had to delete its facebook page due to a vocal minority. Although GW did make a mistake by bullying the author just for using the term 'Space Marine'.

I think that people get worked up over GW too much. I do agree that as a long-time hobbyist it is fustrating to see GW slowly go down hill in terms of price and the quality of the codexes/fluff, however, there is a simple solution to this... invest more in other game systems and less in GW products. There are plenty of great minatures companies out there which provide excellent quality models at a decent price as well as respecting and listening to the fan-base.

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Deleting your FB page is what a 16 year old girl does when theyre embarrassed online.

On a positive note, this is the best thing that could happen to ol Spots the Sphee.......uh....Space Marine. All the reviews on Amazon are 5 Stars and Im sure its sold a ton of copies thanks to the publicity. feth it, Im gonna buy it.

Ok, now I'm honestly interested in how many copies of "Spots the Space Marine" sells compared to "Death from the Skies."

 AduroT wrote:

Phydox wrote:
It blows my mind how much hate there is for GW. Its really sad/laughable they just don't get it. I can't think of any other company in the same situation.

Hasbro has been rapidly heading in that direction here recently.

Back in my GIJoe days when I trolled HISSTank, there was nowhere near the amount of hate than Ive seen here. There was a bit of bitching, yes, but Hasbro was great about previews, Q & A sessions, and if there was enough of a demand for a certain character or vehicle they would make a point to get it out eventually. And then there was nothing but praise for them. And this was before the first movie and during the first movie, when everything was limited production and it was pretty much only the collectors buying product.

It's not hate.

It's disdain.

It's fatigue.

It's cynicism.

It's experience.

My posts about the price hikes or the C&D letters or the attitude, about 2 or so years ago, would have been furious and indignant. Now they are just tired, resigned. I can't get angry about it any more because it's all I can expect from the corporate and legal aspects of that company. It's a constant, daily update of 'what have they done now? Oh good grief...'

It goes on and on, I'll buy what I like and can justify to myself spending the money on, which is decreasing on both counts with each new revelation of GW's spiteful greed and bizarre attitude.

GW has gotten passed the point of hate for many. It is worse, many are heading towards apathy.
Hate, at least shows consideration and generates talk.
Many regulars here are saying "yes" and leaving this "debate" to the knights.

Edit
LoL
Phone put this in the wrong thread-at least it somewhat relates.
Blame the phone!

All I know is that my three kids are getting old enough to be taking an interest in my miniatures an games. I used to think that it ould be great o bring them into the fold so to speak. But now I don't want them even to consider GW. Just waiting for he iron core game to start..

Hate....no
Apathy...probably
Frustration.....absolutely.

 MetalOxide wrote:
It is quite ashame GW had to delete its facebook page due to a vocal minority. Although GW did make a mistake by bullying the author just for using the term 'Space Marine'.

Try reversing the order of those sentences, and see if suddenly, things more sense.

I also don't "hate" GWS. I hate onions and stubbed toes and the flu and, for no explainable reason, Carson Daly, but I don't hate GWS.

I find it hilarious; as I would for any multi-million dollar global corporation acting like a teenage girl and deleting her myspace.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
It's not hate.

It's disdain.

It's fatigue.

It's cynicism.

It's experience.

My posts about the price hikes or the C&D letters or the attitude, about 2 or so years ago, would have been furious and indignant. Now they are just tired, resigned. I can't get angry about it any more because it's all I can expect from the corporate and legal aspects of that company. It's a constant, daily update of 'what have they done now? Oh good grief...'

It goes on and on, I'll buy what I like and can justify to myself spending the money on, which is decreasing on both counts with each new revelation of GW's spiteful greed and bizarre attitude.

This bears repeating... I think ultimately the word I can best use to describe it is 'ugly'. The whole thing - the prices, lack of development, the disdain with which they view their customers. They are undeserving of the obsessive and at times OTT attraction the fanbase has had for them, and as a result that 'love' has started to twist into something on the flip side of the coin. I'm sure there is an analogy with Fatal Attraction, Michael Douglas and bunny boilers here

Phydox wrote:
It blows my mind how much hate there is for GW. Its really sad/laughable they just don't get it. I can't think of any other company in the same situation. Its not like the product they make is a necessity (I know I'm gonna get flack for that comment ) People hate on Big Oil but you still have to put gas in your car and heat your home (Unless you spend some serious cash to upgrade). People just take every opportunity to Hate on GW when they can just walk away. There's so many games just as good. Haters love to hate on GW.

The only hate I have for GW is ruining my favorite ruleset (WHFB), as 8th pretty much killed all interest in my area and occasionally it's possible to get a game of 6th or 7th in but at about 5% of the frequency I used to be able to.

Mainly I pity them because it is obvious they are a ship of fools.

Lol. Some people acts like kids when they discovered the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are not real.... The purpose of GW is to make money.... suck it up buttercup....

But back to the topic. If GW removed the FB page just because they are not able to take criticisms... That stupid or they really need a new guy at the head of the marketing department.

hellpato wrote:
Lol. Some people acts like kids when they discovered the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are not real.... The purpose of GW is to make money.... suck it up buttercup....

Got news for you sunshine; It's not GW we get mad at. That is more what MGS already said. It's GW's exalted shining whiter than white knights of justice that piss us off.

 Ouze wrote:

 MetalOxide wrote:
It is quite ashame GW had to delete its facebook page due to a vocal minority. Although GW did make a mistake by bullying the author just for using the term 'Space Marine'.

Try reversing the order of those sentences, and see if suddenly, things more sense.

I also don't "hate" GWS. I hate onions and stubbed toes and the flu and, for no explainable reason, Carson Daly, but I don't hate GWS.

I find it hilarious; as I would for any multi-million dollar global corporation acting like a teenage girl and deleting her myspace.

You are quite right, it was very foolish of GW to delete the FB page.

violenceha over at Warseer wrote:Citadel sand, now available in head size tubs.

 Kroothawk wrote:

violenceha over at Warseer wrote:Citadel sand, now available in head size tubs.

Do they sell FineOstrich masks too? They could make tons of money on those.

hellpato wrote:
Lol. Some people acts like kids when they discovered the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are not real.... The purpose of GW is to make money.... suck it up buttercup....

When companies like GW do what they do - it just makes me laugh...

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ebjlSzLEl2UJ:www.facebook.com/notes/games-workshop/games-workshop-and-the-protection-of-our-trademarks/595792240435610

Amazing amounts of digital information never goes away. Unfortunately, Google only cached the first 30 or so comments (there are other sites which deal with social media and FB specifically which likely have more stored though). This reply was exceptionally prophetic:

If I am impressed with one thing in GW's handling of all of this it is that they have not conducted a serial purge of every last comment on this post.

Then again, it is the middle of the night in the UK.
I guess I'll give them until tomorrow morning to live up to my expectations.

Granted, when they woke up the next morning - they didn't purge the comments...they purged their entire page.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:
Granted, when they woke up the next morning - they didn't purge the comments...they purged their entire page.

Clearly whoever is in charge of social media at GW (in addition to other important duties like making sure the trash goes out on garbage day and the coffee machine has enough filters) is a diehard SOB player.

I saved a good majority of it... My grand kids will see this nugget of goodness.

Is this the tipping point? Could it really be all downhill from here?

 SickSix wrote:
Is this the tipping point? Could it really be all downhill from here?

I can see you smiling and rubbing your hands in anticipation in that post.

I don't think we actually are served by a true tipping point. I happen to like the current slow slide where GW cranks up their prices, doesn't communicate with their customers in any meaningful fashion and slowly just bleeds their market share away to competitors.

In the last 10 years we have more options for figures and rules than any time before. I want GW to keep giving away their market share with annual price hikes and alienating decisions like shutting down their facebook or not allowing gaming in their stores, or finecast or whatever.

Take a look at the pricing of the new Warriors of Chaos stuff-- it's at a perfect level to reduce volume of sales and market share. Let's have more of that GW!

No reason for a true tipping point or going all down hill. Let's have more relatively flat revenue and big price hikes so more and more of the market share can be distributed to competitors. The internet makes it easier than ever before for potential customers to be connected directly with new manufacturers. GW can ignore the internet-- it's only good for the hobby as a whole if they do.

I have to agree with agustin. I have been wargaming for a relatively short period of time, 5 or 6 years but in that time so many other companies have sprung up and it is brilliant! I haven't made an actual GW purchase since 2011 (although I still have heaps of their stuff to paint!). The main reason for that is that there is just so much other stuff out there that keeps distracting me. Not saying I would ever want GW to reach a tipping point, just for them to shrink a little to allow some more variety into our little hobby...

I would, it'd shut all the white knights up, people give honest and well thought out reasons why they have problems with GW and all they can reply with is childish name calling or calling you a child (or both, I've been called both, I've been called a lot because I had an opinion of my own).

This really boggles the mind. GW is so scared of the Internet it isn't funny. Even mom and pop restaurants around here have a FB page. What a bunch of children they are. I have no idea which genius in advertising thought it was. God idea to cut the. Off,from the Internet, which is the exact opposite of what every other business in the world is doing. No, GW doesn't know more then every other company in the world.

As for them taking it down over "hate", that's nonsense. Every other company in the world (including ones that generate far more heated debates like apple and Walmart) manages a FB page fine. He'll if the fething Israeli Army manages a FB despite online hate, so can GW.

TLDR: what the hell are they doing?

 agustin wrote:
I don't think we actually are served by a true tipping point. I happen to like the current slow slide where GW cranks up their prices, doesn't communicate with their customers in any meaningful fashion and slowly just bleeds their market share away to competitors.

In the last 10 years we have more options for figures and rules than any time before. I want GW to keep giving away their market share with annual price hikes and alienating decisions like shutting down their facebook or not allowing gaming in their stores, or finecast or whatever.

Take a look at the pricing of the new Warriors of Chaos stuff-- it's at a perfect level to reduce volume of sales and market share. Let's have more of that GW!

No reason for a true tipping point or going all down hill. Let's have more relatively flat revenue and big price hikes so more and more of the market share can be distributed to competitors. The internet makes it easier than ever before for potential customers to be connected directly with new manufacturers. GW can ignore the internet-- it's only good for the hobby as a whole if they do.

So, all down hill with the brakes half way on?

Dude, what you describe is the downfall of GW, just at a slow pace.

So we all agree they are on a unsustainable path then?

I don't see where GW going down fast would mess up what you want? Then you'd have an explosion of 'market share', not a slow trickle.

Not to mention, I honestly don't think GW will 'right the ship' without a buyout or hostile management take over.

They have shown NO, ZERO, NADA, sign that they are going to get off the wrong track.

 Rainbow Dash wrote:
I would, it'd shut all the white knights up, people give honest and well thought out reasons why they have problems with GW and all they can reply with is childish name calling or calling you a child (or both, I've been called both, I've been called a lot because I had an opinion of my own).

Shut the apoligists up? Heaven forbid! I get hours of humorous thoughts just listening to what they say.... that all is well with the ivory towers in GW land.

I'm starting to feel like a prisoner waiting for a hero to swoop in and save me.

I think GW's behaviour is beyond sad, its reprehensible. Unfortunately, they still have some advantages over other companies. I cannot wait until someone more worthy of my money shows up. I few so bad for those individuals who work for the company, in so far as they are even more trapped by this companies idiocy than I am.

 Rainbow Dash wrote:
I would, it'd shut all the white knights up, people give honest and well thought out reasons why they have problems with GW and all they can reply with is childish name calling or calling you a child (or both, I've been called both, I've been called a lot because I had an opinion of my own).

You have an opinion of your own, shocking, how dare you!
Back to the indoctrination center!

But Anyways Fanboyz make the forum interesting.

And i think GW is past the tipping point, just see the amount of different systems on the market.

 SickSix wrote:

So, all down hill with the brakes half way on?

Sure. A slow decline into irrelevancy.

Dude, what you describe is the downfall of GW, just at a slow pace.

So we all agree they are on a unsustainable path then?

Yes.

I don't see where GW going down fast would mess up what you want? Then you'd have an explosion of 'market share', not a slow trickle.

Not to mention, I honestly don't think GW will 'right the ship' without a buyout or hostile management take over.

They have shown NO, ZERO, NADA, sign that they are going to get off the wrong track.

The reason a slow change is better than a sudden one is that it doesn't shock the distribution system or retailers. If GW were to suddenly announce a given line is cut (like say, WFB) then retailers end up getting stuck with tons of dead stock. Or if GW went under (honestly that's not even on the radar for the next few years as they have good access to debt and can ride out a rough patch) then they'd be stuck with even more dead stock. A slow transition allows everyone the chance to expand their non-GW ranges. It allows GW employees to trickle back into the job market rather than flooding it (well, as much as they would being that GW is small). Ex-GW creative types have been finding homes at various other miniature companies and this can continue. It gets people used to the idea of variety rather than getting everything from one company. The wider gaming community is getting more and more receptive to variety, but I don't think many 40k and WHFB fans are ready to embrace all the other options out there. I think more time and more options and more projects and GW pulling more and more out of touch is better than a rapid change. A slow transition of market share from GW to competitors is also easier on the available capital pool. Having a sudden vacuum in the market might cause a lot of great projects to not get funded enough to be brought to market. People might start calling the end of the hobby as a whole and say that the whole hobby is in decline from the one largest player failing. And perception can become reality in such a circumstance.

A slow descent into irrelevancy is the best for everyone. GW has left facebook, maybe they'll pull back even more and just fade away over the next decade. They might stabilize at some point, but in a much diminished capacity. Or they can go under. It doesn't matter once they are irrelevant.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AesSedai wrote:
I'm starting to feel like a prisoner waiting for a hero to swoop in and save me.

I think GW's behaviour is beyond sad, its reprehensible. Unfortunately, they still have some advantages over other companies. I cannot wait until someone more worthy of my money shows up. I few so bad for those individuals who work for the company, in so far as they are even more trapped by this companies idiocy than I am.

Are you sure a more worthy alternative isn't out there already? Why not try getting a few models you've seen and liked from other manufacturers and paint them up and see if you get the same sort of enjoyment out of them as you do out of GW's products? Maybe you don't need a complete package from a single company to fulfill your hobby needs.

Yep, their livelihood is dependent on GW decisions out of their control and keeping their job is dependent on selling more product than the year before in spite of GW's behavior. What a crappy position to find oneself in.

-a