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GW's official policy is NOT to communicate with the media.

xraytango wrote:
So let me get this straight, help me if it seems as though I am missing something; GW does not have anyone on staff to monitor and "revise" their web presence (i.e. Facebook page)

No, they do. It's just that he's busy as hell, since he's in charge of their legal department as well as responsible for QC on the finecast line.

bmmmm-tiiiisss!

Thank goodness GWFulchester is still up. It's really the only GW site I still go to.

https://www.facebook.com/GWFulchester?ref=stream

 Ouze wrote:

xraytango wrote:
So let me get this straight, help me if it seems as though I am missing something; GW does not have anyone on staff to monitor and "revise" their web presence (i.e. Facebook page)

No, they do. It's just that he's busy as hell, since he's in charge of their legal department as well as responsible for QC on the finecast line.

bmmmm-tiiiisss!

Haa! Good one, about what I'd expect.

 Briancj wrote:
GW's official policy is NOT to communicate with the media.

Why give away communication for free what you can sanitize and sell at $9.00 per month?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Thank goodness GWFulchester is still up. It's really the only GW site I still go to.

https://www.facebook.com/GWFulchester?ref=stream

I'm going to send this link to the BBC so they can update their news article.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Probably because you don't see articles posted all over the place regarding Forge World, Dreamforge, PP, Wyrd, and others?

Maybe there are no articles, because Forge World, Dreamforge, PP, Wyrd, and others are just nice creative people wanting to share their enthusiasm in the hobby. While the BBC article is about some unworldly lawyers trying to make the world believe that GW invented skulls, roman numbers, shoulder pads and every concept GW stole in the past 30 years. Nothing wrong with being inspired among creative people, unless you claim sole property on other people's inventions.

My name is xraytango, and I approve this message.

And Kan, I have yet to see where Hogarth ever mentioned she was being sued by GW. Maybe she was, I know there were some talks between the two parties according to the interview on Gamers on Games, but most of what I have read is how what GW was / is doing puts sci-fi writer in jeopardy if they want to use the general and descriptive term "space marine".

The strangest argument I heard about that situation was "that the book was badly written so deserved to be taken down"

xraytango wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Probably because you don't see articles posted all over the place regarding Forge World, Dreamforge, PP, Wyrd, and others?

Maybe there are no articles, because Forge World, Dreamforge, PP, Wyrd, and others are just nice creative people wanting to share their enthusiasm in the hobby. While the BBC article is about some unworldly lawyers trying to make the world believe that GW invented skulls, roman numbers, shoulder pads and every concept GW stole in the past 30 years. Nothing wrong with being inspired among creative people, unless you claim sole property on other people's inventions.

My name is xraytango, and I approve this message.

And Kan, I have yet to see where Hogarth ever mentioned she was being sued by GW. Maybe she was, I know there were some talks between the two parties according to the interview on Gamers on Games, but most of what I have read is how what GW was / is doing puts sci-fi writer in jeopardy if they want to use the general and descriptive term "space marine".

That's my point.

She never mentioned it, but never once did she ever correct anyone about it.
She had all these people fawning over her, talking about getting her pro bono legal help for a lawsuit that was not happening.

There is more to pro bono than just dealing with court cases. Just talking with a lawyer costs money, you dig? It could be consulting sessions, research time (paid to the lawyer, done by a paralegal), filing documents, etc.

Many lawyers do pro bono work and never see the inside of a courtroom because they are doing less than glamorous things like writing wills, deeds, and other boring stuff.

The SFWA wants to get a lawyer on board pro bono so that an enthusiastic and creative person doesn't get overwhelmingly crushed by a ponderous and slightly malevolent big business.

Why should she have to disclose that she was not being sued?

I never heard about GW having to disclose that they didn't have a leg to stand on when sending C&D letters either or when jumping on Amazon to remove the e-book.

As long as Ms Hogarth did not lie she is very free to control what information she releases any way she wants and it's up to the other side to make any appropiate counterclaims... Ah! but GW has a blanket policy of not talking to anybody so then tough luck to them.

M.

Seems weird they didn't just release what they put on FB to the press. Investors are more likely to notice something in the Financial Times or the BBC than on GW's facebook page.

Deleting your FB page is what a 16 year old girl does when theyre embarrassed online.

On a positive note, this is the best thing that could happen to ol Spots the Sphee.......uh....Space Marine. All the reviews on Amazon are 5 Stars and Im sure its sold a ton of copies thanks to the publicity. feth it, Im gonna buy it.

 Kanluwen wrote:

xraytango wrote:
...
My name is xraytango, and I approve this message.

And Kan, I have yet to see where Hogarth ever mentioned she was being sued by GW. Maybe she was, I know there were some talks between the two parties according to the interview on Gamers on Games, but most of what I have read is how what GW was / is doing puts sci-fi writer in jeopardy if they want to use the general and descriptive term "space marine".

That's my point.

She never mentioned it, but never once did she ever correct anyone about it.
She had all these people fawning over her, talking about getting her pro bono legal help for a lawsuit that was not happening.

Sigh...

This is a singularly ill-informed and biased view of the situation. MCA Hogarth had her book removed from Amazon's e-book listings following an improper (and easily discernibly improper, which arguably makes it unethical) request under the DMCA. Which, as the prior link goes into at greater length, is improper on its face. The chilling (in the legal sense) effects of GW's actions are not limited to those enforced by suit.

While GW's claims and actions were both risible and scurrilous, Hogarth, not being a legal expert of any kind, was a) not possessed of the legal acumen to fight them, and b) clearly unable to afford to hire the needed legal expertise.

Thus, the notion that her need was illusory simply because there was no immediate notice of a suit is clearly mistaken. Nor is pro bono work limited to suits under law sui generis.

Ergo, MCAH's public stance is entirely proper, as is the assistance apparently rendered to her pro bono by the EFF: their actions served the public good in providing legal recourse for someone otherwise incapable of properly asserting their rights against the improper and unethical actions of GW.

You'd think that I wouldn't be shocked by this, but I really am. I just don't understand how a company like Games Workshop can't see the value in PR. Actually, I do understand - it is because they don't really give a gak about the people that purchase their products nor play their game. They don't really care if you hate them or not. They don't care if you think what they do is a bad idea. To them, you've either purchased an army already and you're expendable, or you haven't purchased an army and you're going to be convinced by friends or by visiting their one-man operations. So, what is the point in wading through the vitriol from people you really don't care about?

At least, that's the way it seems from this average consumer's point-of-view.

Thank you Buzzsaw. Great summary and clarification, hopefully it will help some of us put things in perspective.

GW USA is still operating on FB, wonder how long that will last: https://www.facebook.com/gamesworkshopnorthamerica

xraytango wrote:
Thank you Buzzsaw. Great summary and clarification, hopefully it will help some of us put things in perspective.

You're kidding right? I'm not even sure what he posted was in English.

 Medium of Death wrote:
I don't know, when all you get from your fans is abuse it's easy to see why they like to step back. Don't get me wrong GW does deserve a fair amount of what gets thrown at it, but it might just be a bit too much to bother attempting to continue any meaningful interaction.

Tough noogies. Other companies seem to manage. Hell, even gun manufacturers have Facebook sites, and you can't tell me that the crap we sling at GW is in any way comparable to what those guys wade through.

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
On a positive note, this is the best thing that could happen to ol Spots the Sphee.......uh....Space Marine. All the reviews on Amazon are 5 Stars and Im sure its sold a ton of copies thanks to the publicity. feth it, Im gonna buy it.

Ironically, I'm pretty sure the book sucks, like almost all other self-published novels peddled on the Internet.

 Ozymandias wrote:
You're kidding right? I'm not even sure what he posted was in English.

Don't make the mistake of assuming everyone else is as ignorant as you.

 Ouze wrote:
Hah, they ragequit the internet.


Again.

Priceless!

 d3m01iti0n wrote:


Will the official website go down soon, leaving only catalogues at the retail stores for product ordering?

I don't think there is any risk of that happening as that is all the website is now anyway, an online catalogue.

Check out how the website used to be here

http://web.archive.org/web/20080419150022/http://uk.games-workshop.com/default.aspx

It had content, it had an indication that there was more to this game then little men and dice and other stuff that costs money, it said that you can use your imagination to create your own things and to above all else, enjoy the game. Seems like GW themselves have forgotten what the most important rule is.

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 d3m01iti0n wrote:


Will the official website go down soon, leaving only catalogues at the retail stores for product ordering?

I don't think there is any risk of that happening as that is all the website is now anyway, an online catalogue.

Check out how the website used to be here

http://web.archive.org/web/20080419150022/http://uk.games-workshop.com/default.aspx

It had content, it had an indication that there was more to this game then little men and dice and other stuff that costs money, it said that you can use your imagination to create your own things and to above all else, enjoy the game. Seems like GW themselves have forgotten what the most important rule is.

GOOD GOD, it was actually usable, heck I could imagine myself returning to the site more then once simply for the modelling articles, painting articles and god forbid gaming articles. Oh well, GW is getting the arse spanked at the moment when it comes to being innovative. Look at Privateer Press.... A flippen app for you phone or tablet that you can connect to other players to record damage, check rules, create armies and monitor what damage the other player has taken.

It will be interesting to see if/when Games Workshop starts to lose market share, and decide to throw caution and lawyers out the window and get on with being a gaming company rather then relying on their IP to save them

The first rule of GW is don't talk about GW, and the downward spiral continious

It blows my mind how much hate there is for GW. Its really sad/laughable they just don't get it. I can't think of any other company in the same situation. Its not like the product they make is a necessity (I know I'm gonna get flack for that comment ) People hate on Big Oil but you still have to put gas in your car and heat your home (Unless you spend some serious cash to upgrade). People just take every opportunity to Hate on GW when they can just walk away. There's so many games just as good. Haters love to hate on GW.

That's a mighty big brush you've got there Phydox. Gonna try and paint us all in one stroke?

I can't relate to any of the people saying that they don't feel that they can interact socially within their local hobby store because the staff are actively told to discourage it. I've been into the hobby less than a year, but the staff at my local store made the effort to learn my name, the armies I play and always encourage me to come in and visit them, even if it's just to sit and paint with them in a social capacity. Just last Monday I spent the entire day up there and didn't spend a penny (well I did, but it was on lots of coffee).

I must just be one of the lucky ones with a local GW that offers outstanding customer service and is a genuinely pleasant place to be.

As for the Facebook going down, does anyone really care that much? All it used to do was dump a link to White Dward Daily on my feed, which I can readily access through the official website's homepage anyway. My local store's Facebook is still alive and kicking.

Don't get me wrong, the whole legal issue with the term 'Space Marine' and the independent auther who's getting heat from GW is disgusting, but that's an issue for another thread.

Phydox wrote:
It blows my mind how much hate there is for GW. Its really sad/laughable they just don't get it. I can't think of any other company in the same situation.

Hasbro has been rapidly heading in that direction here recently.

Phydox wrote:
It blows my mind how much hate there is for GW. ... Haters love to hate on GW.

I think this weird obsession with hatred should be nicknamed the Phydox Fallacy. I don't hate GW. I laugh at them. There's a distinction, the subtleties of which are sadly lost on some.

 AduroT wrote:

Phydox wrote:
It blows my mind how much hate there is for GW. Its really sad/laughable they just don't get it. I can't think of any other company in the same situation.

Hasbro has been rapidly heading in that direction here recently.

They earned back a lot of rep at Toyfair 2013 when they announced IDW figures, Voyager Springer and Blitzwing, and the 24" Metroplex, though.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

Phydox wrote:
It blows my mind how much hate there is for GW. ... Haters love to hate on GW.

I think this weird obsession with hatred should be nicknamed the Phydox Fallacy. I don't hate GW. I laugh at them. There's a distinction, the subtleties of which are sadly lost on some.

GW's response has been the catalyst for much of that hate. When a person complains, they expect their grievances to be noticed at some point by someone to which must owe up to that problem. GW has made very few gestures they actually care (now for why they shouldn't care):

The internet makes it hard to assess how much a company should care of one's gripes. DakkaDakka has a very vocal minority of players who voice their displeasure, but in the context, how big is that minority?

Not enough for GW to deign a response. The sampling size is small against the tens of millions they make every year doing what they have always done.

Thus the vocal minority will continue to complain.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 AduroT wrote:

Phydox wrote:
It blows my mind how much hate there is for GW. Its really sad/laughable they just don't get it. I can't think of any other company in the same situation.

Hasbro has been rapidly heading in that direction here recently.

They earned back a lot of rep at Toyfair 2013 when they announced IDW figures, Voyager Springer and Blitzwing, and the 24" Metroplex, though.

Botcon seekers murdered my family! Between that and the rampant Energon Galvatron fraud, I had to bow out of the TF online community.

I have to say the Wargaming community is also getting to be that unreasonable... Way too much Schadenfreuden going on.