Student Sues Over Low Grade From University Class

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**WarOne**

Imagine being able to sue a school for a poor grade because you felt you deserved better...

Now this case is interesting because the student claims specifically the participation component of the grade she got for the class is the reason why she could not continue her studies at the next level and therefore lost potentially over a million dollars in future revenue.

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/dont-your-final-grade-then-sue-student-did-1C8377250

Talk about grade inflation.

Graduate student Megan Thode wasn't happy about the C-plus she received for one class, saying the mediocre grade kept her from getting her desired degree and becoming a licensed therapist — and, as a result, cost her $1.3 million in lost earnings.

Now Thode is suing her professor and Lehigh University in Bethlehem, claiming monetary damages and seeking a grade change.

A judge is hearing testimony in the case this week in Northampton County Court. Lehigh and the professor contend her lawsuit is without merit. Northampton County Judge Emil Giordano declined to dismiss the suit Wednesday, ruling that there was enough evidence for the suit to proceed, according to The (Easton) Express-Times.

Thode took the class in the fall of 2009. Her instructor, Amanda Eckhardt, testified this week that she stood by the grade, saying Thode failed to behave professionally and thus earned zero out of 25 points in class participation, bumping her down a full letter grade.

"I ... believed she received the grade she earned," Eckhardt said.

The C-plus prevented Thode, an otherwise A student, from going on to the next class and advancing in her professional therapist studies, the newspaper reported. She wound up getting a master's degree in human development instead.

Related:Are you earning minimum wage? We want to hear from you.

Her attorney, Richard Orloski, argued that Eckhardt targeted Thode because she is an outspoken advocate for gay marriage.

Eckhardt testified that while she believes marriage is between a man and a woman, she would never allow her personal views to influence her treatment of students. She said Thode had outbursts in class, did not participate appropriately, was emotionally unstable and failed to heed a warning letter.

Stephen Thode, the plaintiff's father and a longtime finance professor at Lehigh, testified on his daughter's behalf and said her participation score was highly irregular.

"I have never heard of a case, not just at Lehigh, where a student achieved a zero in class participation where they attended and participated in every class," he said.

Giordano is presiding over the nonjury trial and is expected to rule on Thode's lawsuit after testimony concludes.

**Krellnus**

You have got to be kidding me, if you don't participate in school, that's your fault, not the schools.

**Hlaine Larkin mk2**

Feths sake, you didn't do well enough in a class so your response isn't to pull your finger out and actually try harder but to sue?

The worst thing is that a Judge has seen enough 'evidence' to actually let it continue and sets a precedent for future cases.

If your participation earns you a 0, that should tell you something about yourself!

**SilverMK2**

If you are getting good marks in other classes, you do have to wonder though.

Especially if you get 0 for something like participation. You either need to never show up or shoot someone in the head to get 0.

It would be interesting to see if she went through the internal appeals process before deciding to sue.

**Formosa**

From reading that I get a distinct feeling that the teacher used her bias as part of the grade, if someone is emotional, has outbursts etc in class, if it's inappropriate give them a low grade, otherwise a 0 is not justifiable as she did infact participate... As much as I dislike students, I agree this one appears to be in the right.

**SagesStone**

Good thing this wasn't publicised or something, it could have made it even harder for her to get a job as a therapist. As well as given a few other... charming... individuals an idea.

**timetowaste85**

Yeah...something about this stinks. The article given, having no other back up material, suggests that a previously A student got 0 points for participation? Her father believes she went to every class? A 0 for participation is pretty much an impossibility, unless you don't ever show up or you never raise your hand and avoid group work. If the class breaks down and students work together on projects, that's "participation." If the student is vocally involved in a discussion or asks questions, that's "participation." I think we'd have to see what the so-called outbursts are, in order to see who we stand by. I was totally ready to read this thread, and bash on the student who was building the lawsuit. Now, just from the information given, I'm actually finding myself on her side, unless the school can provide better information, as their "grade" given is ridiculous, and also pretty close to impossible. The fact that this article suggests it is during a Masters program, not just an undergrad speaks higher to the girl's claim: you don't get A's through your undergrad and into your Masters through lack of participation. You have to be involved. Only way this is possible is through lecture courses only-and going for a specific field, they'd never let a student take only lectures, as there would be no options for hands on study or real world application. Something stinks in this professor and this college. I hope the girl wins. And I'm saying that as someone who was ready to feed her to the wolves before I read the article.

**Bran Dawri**

Doesn't anyone else find it odd that participation is part of your grade in a college level education?
I mean, you either get the subject, or you don't, and hence you either pass the exam (plus whatever else you have to do to demonstrate understanding), or you don't based on that.
If someone doesn't show up for their classes in, I dunno, theoretical thermodynamics and then shows up and scores a 100% on the exam, that should be his grade, simple as that.

Sounds as silly as grading on a curve to me.

**SilverMK2**

Participation is a hard one. In subjects with more hands on practical work (such as medicine), "participation" is a valid way to grade students on their professional interactions with healthcare workers and patients.

**Kilkrazy**

I have to say 0 out of 25 is a very low score.

I should have thought you needed to be a complete psycho to get such a low score. In fact anyone getting that low probably ought to be excluded for disrupting classes.

So I tend not to believe the teacher in this case, though of course we haven't heard all the evidence.

I wonder what the other students' scores were like? Presumably they could be called as witnesses to see whose story they back.

**Ouze**

Interesting case. I'm inclined to lean towards the student, if only because it's so outlandish of a suit, and yet it's already survived a judicial review. Zero for participation for a solid A student sounds awful fishy.

**Ratbarf**

Yip, considering in most universities you get a 50 for participation if all you do is show up, you don't have to say a word. Just sit there and be quiet/oblivious.

**LordofHats**

IDK about that Ouze. Having recently been in college, some students can be really really weird. The teacher claims that she behaved inappropriately in class. I'd like more details on that.

**Seaward**

"Participation" grades in US universities are simply a method of forcing students to actually attend class. In my experience, it's the easy classes that have them, as the professors are well aware that halfway bright students can not attend all semester, read the book a week before the exam, and pass. I got a B in an Intro to Theology class I took despite never attending - without the full letter grade deduction for non-attendance, it would've been an A.

If this chick attended class, there's zero reason for her to have gotten a zero in participation.

**LordofHats**

First off, that's not true about participation grades. That's something that will vary by professor. I can agree that by and large most professors just use participation as "did this student show up" meter, but that's becoming a thing of the past in some places. My university had a university wide policy that if you missed 33% of the class hours, you received an automatic failure. Some professors reserved the right to give a student a failure if they missed more than 5 classes for unexcused reasons.

Most of my upper level history courses, actually used participation to measure participation. If you were in class, but didn't participate in discussions you got 0 points for the day. EDIT: And I can see how a student who the professor feels is a disruption could warrant a similar response.

THis is a case where knowing what the professor (and school) mean by participation would be helpful.

**Polonius**

The way a lot of master's programs work is that a single C grade or lower can remove you, which is why this one grade is so key.

Lehigh is a private school, so you can't sue for a 1st amendment suit. But there's obviously a viable cause of action if the judge didn't dismiss.

Factually, this isn't a tough case. What are the range of participation scores? Get testimony from other students showing that she was disruptive and unprofessional, or the opposite.

http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-megan-thode-loses-in-c-lawsuit-against-lehigh-20130214,0,7567341.photogallery

So... it looks like her cause of action was Breach of Contract and Sexual Discrimination. The latter is probably a non-starter, but the former is interesting. The problem is that the contract is for Lehigh to provide classes, not grades.

**kshaw2000**

I can understand If she had got a low score but zero is incredibly low and many people that never show up, heckle the teacher and argue constantly (though that could be a good thing.) have better participation scores than that . I think that she may have not been the greatest at participation but there is no way that this is unbiased.

**Ahtman**

The article I read about it also mentioned that she got free tuition and housing at her undergrad and grad school because her father taught at the school, so at least she has no student loans to worry about.

It would be interesting to see the transcripts of the case, to some extent, to see what the actual arguments were.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

kshaw2000 wrote:
I can understand If she had got a low score but zero is incredibly low and many people that never show up, heckle the teacher and argue constantly (though that could be a good thing.) have better participation scores than that.

I think you are exaggerating what happens if a student heckles a teacher, but arguing is a part of any good course, unless you mean yelling, which again, is a problem that a participation score would not be involved in at that point. It could be, as Lordofhats stated above, it could be as simple as missing a certain number of classes without an excuse. I've met students who thought the rules didn't apply to them, as well as students who didn't read a syllabus, and would get themselves into untenable situations regarding their grade. And yes, grad students are just as prone to stupid mistakes or flights of ego that would lead to such things. Certainly it is unusual, but it is not without precedent.

**Ouze**

It's too bad this is probably going to get settled and we'll never find out the truth.

**Ahtman**

Ouze wrote:
It's too bad this is probably going to get settled and we'll never find out the truth.

She lost. It is in Polonius's link above.

**Ouze**

Oh, so she did. Although a better link would be http://www.mcall.com/news/local/mc-lehigh-university-student-sues-over-grade-c-20130214,0,3075382.story

**Kilkrazy**

In essence your professor can totally feth you because you are owed tuition not a fair grade.

BE WARNED, STUDENTS. YOU CAN"T FIGHT CITY HALL!!

**LordofHats**

Kilkrazy wrote:
BE WARNED, STUDENTS. YOU CAN FIGHT CITY HALL BUT YOU PROBABLY WONT WIN!!

Fix'd for accuracy, given the events in question

**Spyral**

So a disruptive entitled girl with issues demands a higher grade?

From the title I thought it was about how in collaborative projects the others didn't pull their weight.

Then again you are paying for university and are a customer...

**Kovnik Obama**

This is weird, but I guess inevitable.

My mother once faced a lawsuit like this. She was part of the review committee for a doctoral thesis on a subject she was pretty much the only specialist alive.

The student's thesis was complete garbage. It had been pointed out a few times to him by his own supervisor, but the guy didn't change anything. So my mom was forced to refuse his thesis.

He initially sued the school, but judges here have for position that they never get involved in academics. He then changed his charges to directly sue my mom on the basis that she didn't disclose all the relevant information on the subject of the thesis, which was pure bs, and lost that one.

So he registered to U of Sorbonne, in France, and paid a small fortune to obtain his doctorate under the table.

**Kilkrazy**

You're not saying The Sorbonne is a junk university?

My cousin studied there.

**hotsauceman1**

Well, Its it kinda odd that a student would no get any score for participation.
I wonder what class it was, and if she would deliberately interrupt the teacher to change the subject, and if she argued intelligently about it(AKA, no name calling) and how does a passing grade prevent you from getting a degree?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bran Dawri wrote:
Doesn't anyone else find it odd that participation is part of your grade in a college level education?
I mean, you either get the subject, or you don't, and hence you either pass the exam (plus whatever else you have to do to demonstrate understanding), or you don't based on that.
If someone doesn't show up for their classes in, I dunno, theoretical thermodynamics and then shows up and scores a 100% on the exam, that should be his grade, simple as that.

Sounds as silly as grading on a curve to me.

Not to mention, many colleges now require attendance, so participation is part of the grade.

**LordofHats**

Kovnik Obama wrote:
So he registered to U of Sorbonne, in France, and paid a small fortune to obtain his doctorate under the table.

Was it a philosophy thing? In my class on Ethics of Warfare, my professor suggested that when someone wants a degree in philosophy without doing any of the work that they go to France. I thought he was joking

**Ahtman**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Well, Its it kinda odd that a student would no get any score for participation.

It has been discussed several times what may lead to such a thing, even if it is unusual.

hotsauceman1 wrote:
I wonder what class it was, and if she would deliberately interrupt the teacher to change the subject, and if she argued intelligently about it(AKA, no name calling) and how does a passing grade prevent you from getting a degree?

It was an internship class, which is the best I could find. In grad school, or at least all of them I knew of, you need to maintain a B average at least, and a C+ or less means either retaking the course or doing something else; standards, both in academics and behavior, are higher in grad school.

Apparently she was sent a letter warning her of the problems she was presenting in her participation and what she could do to improve, to which she became angry and said she wanted to speak to her father and see an attorney.

**hotsauceman1**

Damn, B+, looks like i might be screwed.