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In this case I would agree with Ailaros; your list seems like it will handle infantry quite handily without the Demolisher and two Basilisks.

Some anti-tank, be it in the form of Pasquishers or BB Medusas (the anti-tank ones with even more extra range) would be quite wise. Your antitank right now is only two Vendettas, and leaves something to be desired.

Can't the ordnance deal with tanks? it is S9 and S10 by the way. Plus I'm not sure about using FW

I'll be going against Ravagers(-6" range thingy), Hammerheads, and Fire Prisms mostly which outrange the Medusa.

Plus, what % of tournaments allow FW? is it safe to buy their models? (I don't want to buy any unless I'm sure i can use them)

 Sir Mammoth wrote:
Plus I'm not sure about using FW

Medusas are a codex unit.

Plus, what % of tournaments allow FW? is it safe to buy their models? (I don't want to buy any unless I'm sure i can use them)

The only way to find out is to ask the people running the specific tournament you want to attend. According to the rules as published by GW they are allowed, but since GW doesn't run any tournaments people are free to use their own house rules and there is no universal standard.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Sir Mammoth wrote:
Plus I'm not sure about using FW

Medusas are a codex unit.

I wasn't talking about the Medusas

Sir Mammoth wrote:Can't the ordnance deal with tanks?

So it can... but...

Firstly, if it doesn't have a good Ap, it's more or less not worth the bother as all you'll be doing most of the time is slowly stripping hull points. If you hit a little better than half the time, that means that it could take you all game to kill something, and that's if you cause damage every time you hit. Which isn't guaranteed. A basilisk shooting at something with side armor of 12 or a demolisher shooting at something with AV13 on front still can roll two dice where neither of them is higher than a 2, for example. It's roughly the same odds as failing to wound infantry models with a lascannon. You do roll 1's eventually.

This means that, for killing tanks with ordnance weapons, you really only have two of them that are at all serious at the job - the medusa and the demolisher. The medusa is fine for this job. The demolisher, not so much. You're having to spend an awful lot of points for it, and in the end, it's just one gun that doesn't even get the benefit of indirect fire. Furthermore, it's ordnance, which screws up hull weapons now that russes are heavy. For only 20 points more than a demolisher with a lascannon, you could have a vanquisher with a lascannon and sponson multimeltas, which is going to do more damage against everything (bar tightly clustered infantry out in the open), and more consistently as well.

I think 3 death strike missile launchers is the only way to go for heavy support for the IG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just kidding. I like Manticore, 3 griffons, and your choice of Leman Russ Vairant. Maybe even just the regular with battle cannon, and lascannon. If you have the points throw some more stuff on the side sponsons too. Not sure what all of the options are for a leman russ for range or anti armor. I know you can take the heavy bolters, not sure what your other options would be though. Or, heck, maybe even just a demolisher. Never under estiate 24 inch range, and strength 10. I always bring a vindicator with my space wolves/marine lists.

CrimsonKing wrote:
I think 3 death strike missile launchers is the only way to go for heavy support for the IG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just kidding. I like Manticore, 3 griffons, and your choice of Leman Russ Vairant. Maybe even just the regular with battle cannon, and lascannon. If you have the points throw some more stuff on the side sponsons too. Not sure what all of the options are for a leman russ for range or anti armor. I know you can take the heavy bolters, not sure what your other options would be though. Or, heck, maybe even just a demolisher. Never under estiate 34 inch range, and strength 10. I always bring a vindicator with my space wolves/marine lists.

Was about to exalt your post. Clearly your not playing the Balls of Steel regiment.

The problem with the LRBT and the LR Demolisher is that they are ordinance, meaning if you use the main gun, that is ALL you can use. LR variants for tank hunting, I would probably say the vanquisher with Pask, hull Lascanon, and maybe some multi-meltas.

The Medusa tank is great for AT, because it is s10. Some people like the special shells for the Medusa, because they are ap1. It certainly has its merits, but personally I prefer the large blast versus the ap1 and extra 12" because it's where I get most of my TEQ squashing power. This does mean, however, you have to ram it down your opponents gullet. Hard to do with AV12 front.

 Sir Mammoth wrote:
Can't the ordnance deal with tanks? it is S9 and S10 by the way. Plus I'm not sure about using FW

I'll be going against Ravagers(-6" range thingy), Hammerheads, and Fire Prisms mostly which outrange the Medusa.

Plus, what % of tournaments allow FW? is it safe to buy their models? (I don't want to buy any unless I'm sure i can use them)

What did I suggest that is FW?

the BB Medusa is just a medusa tank that fires a different shell. 48" range, Str10, AP1, 2d6 for armor penetration.

The pasquisher is just a Vanquisher with pask in it.

So is replacing the Demolisher with a Medusa enough, or should I replace the Manticore with the Medusa?

2 Basilisks
+ Camo
Medusa
+ Camo
Manticore
+ Camo

or

2 Basilisks
+ Camo
LR Demolisher
Medusa
+ Camo

If those are the only two options, I'd take the first one.

If what you really want is artillery, perhaps you could consider...

Basilisk
Basilisk

Basilisk
Basilisk

Medusa - camo


Or perhaps you'd be more interested in

Basilisk
Basilisk

Medusa
Medusa

Medusa

or something.

What do you personally run?

 Sir Mammoth wrote:
What do you personally run?

Well, my HS normally consists of a Manticore, Squadroned Medusa Heavy Artillery Carriages, and then slot three is point-dependent. Either another Manticore, two more Medusae Carriages, or Two more Colossi, depending on how many spare points I've got.

So what would be ideal in a all corners 2000 point tournament with up to 700 points of HS?

Plus, list any options for them too, thanks.

 Sir Mammoth wrote:
So what would be ideal in a all corners 2000 point tournament with up to 700 points of HS?

Plus, list any options for them too, thanks.

Depends on the rest of your list, really.

If you could give a rundown of your other 1300 points, it would help.

HQ:
Company Command Squad w/Chimera (ML/HF)
+ 4 Plasma guns

Elites:
Marbo

Troops:
Veterans w/ Chimera (ML/HF)
+ 3 Melta guns
Veterans w/ Chimera (ML/HF)
+ 3 Melta guns
Veterans w/ Chimera (ML/HF)
+ 3 Plasma guns
Veterans w/ Chimera (ML/HF)
+ 3 Plasma guns
Veterans w/ Chimera (ML/HF)
+ 3 Plasma guns

Fast Attack:
Vendetta
Vendetta

Okay, now does the tournament you are referring to allow FW units?

Yes, but I would like to have a list that doesn't include FW as well, in case future tournaments don't allow them.

I'd say you'd want to go with:

-Two Medusa Heavy Artillery Carriages
-A Manticore
-Two Colossi

Putting you at 645 points, letting you put Camo Netting on the Medusae (since people will try to kill them first)

For non-FW: I'd say

-Two Medusae
-A Manticore
-Two Colossi

Yeah, it's that easy. My reasoning:

You have lots of anti-Heavy infantry in your plasvets, so the Manticore covers your clear infantry weakness, hordes. Medusae come in as deathstar-breakers, dealing with Paladins, Nurgle Marines, Bikers, etc. Dishing out that sweet instant-death.

Colossi are included for obvious reasons. Anti-infantry at its finest: ignoring cover that troops love to camp on, as well as all but the heaviest armor.

Thank you soo much, that looks perfect. I really appreciate the help, thanks!

One question though, what makes the Colossi better than a Basilisk?

 Sir Mammoth wrote:
Thank you soo much, that looks perfect. I really appreciate the help, thanks!

One question though, what makes the Colossi better than a basilisk?

No problem bud; best of luck. And remember: orders work on artillery carriages' crewmembers.

 Sir Mammoth wrote:
One question though, what makes the Colossi better than a Basilisk?

Ignoring cover. You have lots of things that can kill vehicles or infantry out in the open at close range, but you don't have anything that can deal with cover-abusing units camped on your opponent's "home" objective (Eldar pathfinders, SM scouts in a boosted ruin, etc). Both the Colossus and Basilisk are about equal at killing things like devastators behind an aegis line, but when you have area terrain to deal with the Colossus is just amazing.


As for my opinion on which ones to take:

My personal "standard" heavy support (mech IG at 1500):
* Avenger with hellfury missiles
* Avenger with hellfury missiles
* Medusa x2

Best option in your case:
* Manticore
* Manticore
* Choice of Manticore or 2x Medusa or 1-2x Colossus

 Peregrine wrote:

 Sir Mammoth wrote:
One question though, what makes the Colossi better than a Basilisk?

Ignoring cover. You have lots of things that can kill vehicles or infantry out in the open at close range, but you don't have anything that can deal with cover-abusing units camped on your opponent's "home" objective (Eldar pathfinders, SM scouts in a boosted ruin, etc). Both the Colossus and Basilisk are about equal at killing things like devastators behind an aegis line, but when you have area terrain to deal with the Colossus is just amazing.


As for my opinion on which ones to take:

My personal "standard" heavy support (mech IG at 1500):
* Avenger with hellfury missiles
* Avenger with hellfury missiles
* Medusa x2

Best option in your case:
* Manticore
* Manticore
* Choice of Manticore or 2x Medusa or 1-2x Colossus

Doesn't the Basilisk ignore cover as well? on p. 34 it says the blast comes from the center of the blast marker, so unless the template scatters to the other side of a baricade, they still don't get cover.

 Sir Mammoth wrote:
Doesn't the Basilisk ignore cover as well? on p. 34 it says the blast comes from the center of the blast marker, so unless the template scatters to the other side of a baricade, they still don't get cover.

Area terrain. As I said, both of them are equally good at dealing with aegis lines and similar things, but if you have something like a Harker squad in area terrain they will still get a cover save from a Basilisk.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Sir Mammoth wrote:
Doesn't the Basilisk ignore cover as well? on p. 34 it says the blast comes from the center of the blast marker, so unless the template scatters to the other side of a baricade, they still don't get cover.

Area terrain. As I said, both of them are equally good at dealing with aegis lines and similar things, but if you have something like a Harker squad in area terrain they will still get a cover save from a Basilisk.

Ok, good to know, thanks!

Sir Mammoth wrote:What do you personally run?

Personally, my HS slots at 1850 points as of late have looked like some variation on...

Exterminator - lascannon, Pask

Vanquisher - lascannon, multimeltas
Vanquisher - lascannon, multimeltas

Vanquisher - lascannon, multimeltas
Vanquisher - lascannon, multimeltas


Although I'm starting to think about either switching past back to a vanquisher, or to get rid of pask entirely and spend the points I saved on turning his tank into a lascannon/multimelta punisher, or something.

Yeah, it's twice as much as you're thinking of spending, but 15 HP worth of AV14 is just as uncompromising as 16 lascannons/multimeltas/vanquisher cannons + Pask.

Personally, I would be wary about relying completely on barrage weapons for long range fire. This is probably because we end up playing with multi-level ruins a fair bit, which make barrage a liability. A pack of long fangs on the middle floor of a ruin can be hard to shift without some direct fire support. This depends on your terrain though.

Personally, I'm quite partial to hydra flak tanks, although this is mainly because I have two FW models and it feels wrong not to use them. I also use a joint IG/ABG list, which means heavy support slots are in huge abundance. In fact, the hydras are the only HS choices I use some times, yet I can still take 5+ russes as troops and hq.

 Trickstick wrote:
Personally, I would be wary about relying completely on barrage weapons for long range fire. This is probably because we end up playing with multi-level ruins a fair bit, which make barrage a liability. A pack of long fangs on the middle floor of a ruin can be hard to shift without some direct fire support. This depends on your terrain though.

Great point.

I was about to point this out, also it depends on your terrain on the board. Ofc you can help yourself out by taking the "better" side and giving your enemy the side with the least ruins/area terrian etc if you win the roll off.

Also i find if you play in a area with alot of area terrain, people tend to "jam" as many models in there to get cover for every model as they usually feel like they have too.

This then leads to your manticores hitting many more models than you would normally hit.

I run 2x manticores and they usually pull their weight. They double up as great anti-tank + anti horde.

 Ailaros wrote:

Sir Mammoth wrote:What do you personally run?

Personally, my HS slots at 1850 points as of late have looked like some variation on...

Exterminator - lascannon, Pask

Vanquisher - lascannon, multimeltas
Vanquisher - lascannon, multimeltas

Vanquisher - lascannon, multimeltas
Vanquisher - lascannon, multimeltas


Although I'm starting to think about either switching past back to a vanquisher, or to get rid of pask entirely and spend the points I saved on turning his tank into a lascannon/multimelta punisher, or something.

Yeah, it's twice as much as you're thinking of spending, but 15 HP worth of AV14 is just as uncompromising as 16 lascannons/multimeltas/vanquisher cannons + Pask.

Dude,

How has the Vanquisher with MM worked for you? They seem pricey and not all that good considering its 30 points for them.

I'm torn between Vanquishers or Demolishers to go with my Paskterminator and Executioner.

Im wondering if the MM sponsens are worth it for the vanquisher. In my mind it does win the battle for best russ variant (right now). If your already rolling str 8 plus 2d6 armor pen with the cannon, then you get a lascannon shot, you think the MM sponsens are a bit overkill?....

I understand that with them it fulfills completely its role in the army. However, for something that doesn't usually move that far across the table wouldn't putting hvy bolters on it make it more of a multi-tool? With so much cheap melta guns available in the dex IMHO i think making the tank capable of effectively hurting both vehicles and infantry units is better. (still need to playtest it)

As for artillery, i personally choose Manticore's but as explained above their are several good choices. I find medusa a bit too short range for me