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Quick question
Mordrak and his ghost knights form a ghost knight unit can a Libby with teleporting homer join his unit and deepstrike together turn one and thus not scatter?

I asking due to a match I faced against grey knights
Mordrak 5 ghost knights and a Libby deepstriked as one unit thus the libby did not scatter turn one due to mordraks rule
turn two summons 2 squads of terminators and one unit of paladins
turn three tabled

Reading the grey knight codex it seems ok but maybe a precise ruling could be provided? Since fluff wise i assumed mordrak only was with his ghost knights and a IC could not join them?

An IC cannot join Mordrak himself, but can join his Ghost Knights. So yes this is a legal tactic.

 Happyjew wrote:
An IC cannot join Mordrak himself...

Why not?

The rules indicate that you can join mordrak even if he is not with his ghost knights. This is due to the fact that Mordrak is not a unit that "Always consists of a single model" P. 39

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
An IC cannot join Mordrak himself...

Why not?

The rules indicate that you can join mordrak even if he is not with his ghost knights. This is due to the fact that Mordrak is not a unit that "Always consists of a single model" P. 39

exactly,

the same way and IC can join the sergant of a normal squad (even if the rest of the squad is wiped out) and IC can join mordrak,

that his unit can consist of multiple models also cements it "join ability"

I'm more confused on how the libby summoned 3 units. You can only ever (unless you have special permission) cast a particular power one time.

turn two summons 2 squads of terminators and one unit of paladins

You can only summon one unit per turn.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
An IC cannot join Mordrak himself...

Why not?

The rules indicate that you can join mordrak even if he is not with his ghost knights. This is due to the fact that Mordrak is not a unit that "Always consists of a single model" P. 39

I know Mordrak does not have the IC rule, and isn't his unit composition 1?

 Happyjew wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
An IC cannot join Mordrak himself...

Why not?

The rules indicate that you can join mordrak even if he is not with his ghost knights. This is due to the fact that Mordrak is not a unit that "Always consists of a single model" P. 39

I know Mordrak does not have the IC rule, and isn't his unit composition 1?

Yes. If you allow Mordrak to be joined without his Ghost Knights (because according to C:GK once you buy the Knights it's a unit of Ghost Knights with Mordrak as an upgrade character) you should also allow a Hive Tyrant to be joined while solo.

Yes, his unit composition is 1... but because he can be accompanied by Ghost Knights, he is not a unit that is always composed of 1 model.

Is it possible that he meant "Brought on from reserve" I'm wondering...

 insaniak wrote:
Yes, his unit composition is 1... but because he can be accompanied by Ghost Knights, he is not a unit that is always composed of 1 model.

So a Hive Tyrant is also a unit that is not always composed of one model?

He is never a multi-model unit named Mordrak. He's a Ghost Knight unit that contains Mordrak.
He is never a multi-model unit named Hive Tyrant. He's a Tyrant Guard unit that contains a Hive Tyrant.

So it should be faq'd to clear the air?

Nope. There is no air that needs to be cleared tbh.

Also summoning doesn't work with a teleport homer as this too appeared to be part of the tactic.

So only 1 unit can be summoned and it scatters.

However any number of units could potentially arrive from reserve and teleport in thus gaining benefit of the homer.

 insaniak wrote:
Yes, his unit composition is 1... but because he can be accompanied by Ghost Knights, he is not a unit that is always composed of 1 model.

Same could be said of a Hive Tyrant as he can join a Tyrant Guard Squad?

There is no mention of a teleport homer :S,

As well a hive tyrant cannot be joined by another IC since he's a monstrous creature so that's invalid

 Mesphilhiem wrote:
Quick question
Mordrak and his ghost knights form a ghost knight unit can a Libby with teleporting homer join his unit and deepstrike together turn one and thus not scatter?

I asking due to a match I faced against grey knights
Mordrak 5 ghost knights and a Libby deepstriked as one unit thus the libby did not scatter turn one due to mordraks rule
turn two summons 2 squads of terminators and one unit of paladins
turn three tabled

Reading the grey knight codex it seems ok but maybe a precise ruling could be provided? Since fluff wise i assumed mordrak only was with his ghost knights and a IC could not join them?

I can only assume he meant the GK player got tabled, what exactly are two units of termies and one pally squad going to achieve shooting wise?

 Mesphilhiem wrote:
Quick question
Mordrak and his ghost knights form a ghost knight unit can a Libby with teleporting homer join his unit and deepstrike together turn one and thus not scatter?

I asking due to a match I faced against grey knights
Mordrak 5 ghost knights and a Libby deepstriked as one unit thus the libby did not scatter turn one due to mordraks rule
turn two summons 2 squads of terminators and one unit of paladins

1. The teleport homer can only be used if it started that turn on the table.
2. You can only Summon one unit per turn.
3. Yes, the Libby can join the Ghost Knights. It's a nice way to use Warp Rift safely.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wyomingfox wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Yes, his unit composition is 1... but because he can be accompanied by Ghost Knights, he is not a unit that is always composed of 1 model.

Same could be said of a Hive Tyrant as he can join a Tyrant Guard Squad?

No. A tyrant guard squad is a separate unit. Mordrak and his optional Ghost Knights are one unit.

 Mannahnin wrote:

 Mesphilhiem wrote:
Quick question
Mordrak and his ghost knights form a ghost knight unit can a Libby with teleporting homer join his unit and deepstrike together turn one and thus not scatter?

I asking due to a match I faced against grey knights
Mordrak 5 ghost knights and a Libby deepstriked as one unit thus the libby did not scatter turn one due to mordraks rule
turn two summons 2 squads of terminators and one unit of paladins

1. The teleport homer can only be used if it started that turn on the table.
2. You can only Summon one unit per turn.
3. Yes, the Libby can join the Ghost Knights. It's a nice way to use Warp Rift safely.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wyomingfox wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Yes, his unit composition is 1... but because he can be accompanied by Ghost Knights, he is not a unit that is always composed of 1 model.

Same could be said of a Hive Tyrant as he can join a Tyrant Guard Squad?

No. A tyrant guard squad is a separate unit. Mordrak and his optional Ghost Knights are one unit.

And Ghostly Bodyguard specifies that when the Ghost Knights are killed, Mordrak reverts to being a single-model unit in his own right.

rigeld2 wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Yes, his unit composition is 1... but because he can be accompanied by Ghost Knights, he is not a unit that is always composed of 1 model.

So a Hive Tyrant is also a unit that is not always composed of one model?

He is never a multi-model unit named Mordrak. He's a Ghost Knight unit that contains Mordrak.
He is never a multi-model unit named Hive Tyrant. He's a Tyrant Guard unit that contains a Hive Tyrant.

absurd,

his unit can have a coposition of 1 mordrak 5 ghost knights,

just like a paladin squad has a composition of 1 paladin and cant be joined by IC's too right?


composition can change with options (like extra models) which mordrak, and paladins have,




the restriction is on single model ONLY units, quotes vehicles and monstrouse creatures specifically,

that is not restricting units consisting of a single model, like a solo paladin, the last member of a normal unit, mordrak, ect

easysauce wrote:
his unit can have a coposition of 1 mordrak 5 ghost knights,

just like a paladin squad has a composition of 1 paladin and cant be joined by IC's too right?


composition can change with options (like extra models) which mordrak, and paladins have,

the restriction is on single model ONLY units, quotes vehicles and monstrouse creatures specifically,

that is not restricting units consisting of a single model, like a solo paladin, the last member of a normal unit, mordrak, ect

Mordrak is always a unit that consists of a single model. If you buy a Ghost Knight squad, he becomes an upgrade character for the Ghost Knight Squad. Once all the Ghost Knights are slain, he reverts to being a single-model unit.

Do you really need to make giant block quotes, then only add one line of text?

The fact that the Mordrak unit may be purchased as a unit comprised of more than one model means it definitionally does not always consist of a single model. Mephiston, or a Hive Tyrant, are always units of a single model, as they have no option to purchase additional models as part of their unit.

Sorry on the large block quote. It's been fixed. The Mordrak unit consists of Mordrak and only Mordrak. The Ghost Knight unit consists of however many Ghost Knights plus Mordrak. As long as the Ghost Knight unit is alive, Mordrak is a normal member of that unit, not the Mordrak unit. And as I pointed out the rule that allows you to buy the Ghost knights even specifies that afterwards he reverts to being a single-model unit.

Sure he reverts to being a single model unit; so does an attack bike if you kill the other attack bikes in the squad. But being single model unit is not synonymous with being a unit which is always composed of one model. The latter is based on how many models can be purchased in the unit entry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pardon- I'm reversing my position on re-reading Mordrak's entry in the GK army list. Yes, he is listed as Unit Composition: 1, and the Ghost Knights are listed separately, so if you don't take them he does function the same as (e.g.) Mephiston. My bad; I misremembered.

Alright, so Mordrak's unit can only be joined by IC so long as some Ghosts are alive.

What happens if all the ghosts die and there is a Libby attached to the squad? Do Libby and Mordrak suddenly become two units?

Also, can Thawn, after he is resurrected, be joined by an IC?

Mordrak's unit [Mordrak] can never be joined by an IC. Ghost Knights can be joined by an IC. What happens if an IC is joined to the Ghost Knights and all except the IC and Mordrak are killed? The same thing that happens if a Prime and Tyrant are are attached to a unit of Tyrant Guard and all the Guard are killed.

 Happyjew wrote:
And Ghostly Bodyguard specifies that when the Ghost Knights are killed, Mordrak reverts to being a single-model unit in his own right.

Right. And in order to 'revert to being a single model unit' he would have to have not been a single model unit for a time before that... Which kind of proves that he is not always a unit of a single model...

Right as he was an upgrade to a Ghost Knight unit.

Ghost Knights and Mordrak are two completely different units. Mordrak is either a single-model unit (Unit=Mordrak) or as an upgrade character (basically a "Sergeant") for a Ghost Knight unit (Unit=Ghost Knight). This is a similar scenario to Hive Tyrant with Tyrant Guard.

Ub3rb3n wrote:
As well a hive tyrant cannot be joined by another IC since he's a monstrous creature so that's invalid

That's not actually a rule, FYI.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 insaniak wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
And Ghostly Bodyguard specifies that when the Ghost Knights are killed, Mordrak reverts to being a single-model unit in his own right.

Right. And in order to 'revert to being a single model unit' he would have to have not been a single model unit for a time before that... Which kind of proves that he is not always a unit of a single model...

When the Ghost Knights exist, is the unit called "Mordrak" with a Unit Composition of X Ghost Knights and 1 Mordrak, or is it a unit called "Ghost Knights" with an upgrade character named Mordrak?

The latter means that "Mordrak" is never more than a single model unit.

Do not forget Mordrak also has the chance to spawn ghost knights when he is wounded making it more possible that he is not always a single model unit.