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 Happyjew wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
The rule for IC's say "Independent Characters can join other units. They cannot... join units that always consist of a single model" P. 39

Mordrak is not always in a unit that consists of a single model, therefore IC's can join him.

Mordrak (the unit) is a unit that always consists of 1 model. Mordrak (the model) does not always exist within a unit that only consists of 1 model.

There is no unit named mordrak, only a model named mordrak, and he is never in a "unit that always consist of a single model"

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
The rule for IC's say "Independent Characters can join other units. They cannot... join units that always consist of a single model" P. 39

Mordrak is not always in a unit that consists of a single model, therefore IC's can join him.

Mordrak (the unit) is a unit that always consists of 1 model. Mordrak (the model) does not always exist within a unit that only consists of 1 model.

There is no unit named mordrak, only a model named mordrak, and he is never in a "unit that always consist of a single model"

Apologies, you are right. There is no unit named mordrak. There is however a unit named Grand Master Mordrak. Of course there is no model named mordrak either.

 Happyjew wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
The rule for IC's say "Independent Characters can join other units. They cannot... join units that always consist of a single model" P. 39

Mordrak is not always in a unit that consists of a single model, therefore IC's can join him.

Mordrak (the unit) is a unit that always consists of 1 model. Mordrak (the model) does not always exist within a unit that only consists of 1 model.

There is no unit named mordrak, only a model named mordrak, and he is never in a "unit that always consist of a single model"

Apologies, you are right. There is no unit named mordrak. There is however a unit named Grand Master Mordrak. Of course there is no model named mordrak either.

and his unit does not "always consist of a single model"

 DeathReaper wrote:
The rule for IC's say "Independent Characters can join other units. They cannot... join units that always consist of a single model" P. 39

Mordrak is not always in a unit that consists of a single model, therefore IC's can join him.

The bolded, while a correct statement, is not what the IC rule requires.

Grand Master Mordrak, as a unit, is only ever a single model. He can be a member of another unit, but that's not what the IC rule asks.
It asks for "units that (don't) always consist of a single model".
Does the unit Grand Master Mordrak ever consist of more than one model?

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
The rule for IC's say "Independent Characters can join other units. They cannot... join units that always consist of a single model" P. 39

Mordrak is not always in a unit that consists of a single model, therefore IC's can join him.

Mordrak (the unit) is a unit that always consists of 1 model. Mordrak (the model) does not always exist within a unit that only consists of 1 model.

There is no unit named mordrak, only a model named mordrak, and he is never in a "unit that always consist of a single model"

Apologies, you are right. There is no unit named mordrak. There is however a unit named Grand Master Mordrak. Of course there is no model named mordrak either.

and his unit does not "always consist of a single model"

Yes it does. I see no options to add more models to the unit entitled "Grand Master Mordrak". There is a Ghost Knight unit that is unlocked when you purchase the Grand Master Mordrak unit, at which point the Grand Master Mordrak unit ceases to exist as a unit in its own right until such a time that the Ghost Knight unit is no more.

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
The rule for IC's say "Independent Characters can join other units. They cannot... join units that always consist of a single model" P. 39

Mordrak is not always in a unit that consists of a single model, therefore IC's can join him.

The bolded, while a correct statement, is not what the IC rule requires.

Mordrak, as a unit, is only ever a single model. He can be a member of another unit, but that's not what the IC rule asks.
It asks for "units that (don't) always consist of a single model".
Does the unit Mordrak ever consist of more than one model?

Yes his unit does sometimes consist of more than one model.

"Mordrak and the ghost knights form A unit, with Mordrak acting as an upgrade character until such point as the ghost knights are slain, at which point he reverts to being a single-model unit in his own right." P. 40 GK Codex.

Mordrak and the ghost knights form a single unit of multiple models.

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
The rule for IC's say "Independent Characters can join other units. They cannot... join units that always consist of a single model" P. 39

Mordrak is not always in a unit that consists of a single model, therefore IC's can join him.

The bolded, while a correct statement, is not what the IC rule requires.

Mordrak, as a unit, is only ever a single model. He can be a member of another unit, but that's not what the IC rule asks.
It asks for "units that (don't) always consist of a single model".
Does the unit Mordrak ever consist of more than one model?

Yes his unit does sometimes consist of more than one model.

"Mordrak and the ghost knights form A unit, with Mordrak acting as an upgrade character until such point as the ghost knights are slain, at which point he reverts to being a single-model unit in his own right." P. 40 GK Codex.

Mordrak and the ghost knights form a single unit of multiple models.

Mordrak (the model) can be part of another unit. However you still have not shown where the Grand Master Mordrak unit entry allows for more models to be added to that specific unit.

 Happyjew wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
The rule for IC's say "Independent Characters can join other units. They cannot... join units that always consist of a single model" P. 39

Mordrak is not always in a unit that consists of a single model, therefore IC's can join him.

The bolded, while a correct statement, is not what the IC rule requires.

Mordrak, as a unit, is only ever a single model. He can be a member of another unit, but that's not what the IC rule asks.
It asks for "units that (don't) always consist of a single model".
Does the unit Mordrak ever consist of more than one model?

Yes his unit does sometimes consist of more than one model.

"Mordrak and the ghost knights form A unit, with Mordrak acting as an upgrade character until such point as the ghost knights are slain, at which point he reverts to being a single-model unit in his own right." P. 40 GK Codex.

Mordrak and the ghost knights form a single unit of multiple models.

Mordrak (the model) can be part of another unit. However you still have not shown where the Grand Master Mordrak unit entry allows for more models to be added to that specific unit.

Mordrak and the ghost knights form a single unit, as the quote proves.

And what is the name of this mysterious unit?

 Happyjew wrote:
And what is the name of this mysterious unit?

Not sure as it does not say, but Mordrak is an upgrade character for the unit, and therefore Mordraks unit (the unit Mordrak is a part of) is not in a unit that "always consists of a single model"

"Mordrak and the ghost knights form A unit, with Mordrak acting as an upgrade character " P. 40 GK Codex.

I have no idea what any of you are talking about, but I know how the damn rule works.

The rule is, an IC can join to any unit that does not "always consist of single model". (page 39)

So they can join a unit of paladins, and they could join a single paladin. They could not join a Dreadknight, though. Nor a vindicare assassin.

This also means they can join a carnifex (because they can come in units), but they could not join mawlock.

Don't use the hive tyrant as an example, it's a bad example and confusing.

In any case, Mordrak is a charcter, but he is not an Idependant Character. He can buy other models (ghost knights) as an upgrade, making 1 unit of multiple models. Thus, neither he nor the whole unit is a unit that "always consist of single model". SO you may attach an IC to the unit freely. You could even attach an IC to Mordrak, by himself. Can't attach Mordrak to another unit, though.

There, solved, it's very black and white.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
And what is the name of this mysterious unit?

Not sure as it does not say, but Mordrak is an upgrade character for the unit, and therefore Mordraks unit (the unit Mordrak is a part of) is not in a unit that "always consists of a single model"

"Mordrak and the ghost knights form A unit, with Mordrak acting as an upgrade character " P. 40 GK Codex.

First sentence of that rule, "a unit of Ghost Knights".
Is a unit of Ghost Knights the same unit as Grand Master Mordrak?

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
And what is the name of this mysterious unit?

Not sure as it does not say, but Mordrak is an upgrade character for the unit, and therefore Mordraks unit (the unit Mordrak is a part of) is not in a unit that "always consists of a single model"

"Mordrak and the ghost knights form A unit, with Mordrak acting as an upgrade character " P. 40 GK Codex.

First sentence of that rule, "a unit of Ghost Knights".
Is a unit of Ghost Knights the same unit as Grand Master Mordrak?

Yeah, that's what I was talkign about when I said I didn't have any idea what you all were talking about. Yes, it is the same unit. It's one unit. But why does that matter? What they ain't is a "model that always consist of single model". So, an IC can join them just fine.

The rule is super, super clear. What the heck are you arguing about?

Sir_Prometheus wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
And what is the name of this mysterious unit?

Not sure as it does not say, but Mordrak is an upgrade character for the unit, and therefore Mordraks unit (the unit Mordrak is a part of) is not in a unit that "always consists of a single model"

"Mordrak and the ghost knights form A unit, with Mordrak acting as an upgrade character " P. 40 GK Codex.

First sentence of that rule, "a unit of Ghost Knights".
Is a unit of Ghost Knights the same unit as Grand Master Mordrak?

Yeah, that's what I was talkign about when I said I didn't have any idea what you all were talking about. Yes, it is the same unit. It's one unit. But why does that matter? What they ain't is a "model that always consist of single model". So, an IC can join them just fine.

The rule is super, super clear. What the heck are you arguing about?

So the unit of Ghost Knights is also a unit of Grand Master Mordrak? That's what you just said...

rigeld2 wrote:

Sir_Prometheus wrote:
Yeah, that's what I was talkign about when I said I didn't have any idea what you all were talking about. Yes, it is the same unit. It's one unit. But why does that matter? What they ain't is a "model that always consist of single model". So, an IC can join them just fine.

The rule is super, super clear. What the heck are you arguing about?

So the unit of Ghost Knights is also a unit of Grand Master Mordrak? That's what you just said...

If they are both on the table, then yes as "Mordrak and the ghost knights form A unit" P. 40 GK Codex. (A unit means they form a single unit).

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Sir_Prometheus wrote:
Yeah, that's what I was talkign about when I said I didn't have any idea what you all were talking about. Yes, it is the same unit. It's one unit. But why does that matter? What they ain't is a "model that always consist of single model". So, an IC can join them just fine.

The rule is super, super clear. What the heck are you arguing about?

So the unit of Ghost Knights is also a unit of Grand Master Mordrak? That's what you just said...

If they are both on the table, then yes as "Mordrak and the ghost knights form A unit" P. 40 GK Codex. (A unit means they form a single unit).

Except "(a)n army that includes Grand Master Mordrak can also include a unit of Ghost Knights." That doesn't say it's a unit of Grand Master Mordrak, that says its a unit of Ghost Knights. Oh, that's on page 40 of the GK codex in case you missed it.

So the unit of Ghost Knights is also a unit of Grand Master Mordrak? That's what you just said...

*sigh*That's not what I said, but they are one unit.

More importantly, WTF DOES IT MATTER?!?

rigeld2 wrote:
Except "(a)n army that includes Grand Master Mordrak can also include a unit of Ghost Knights." That doesn't say it's a unit of Grand Master Mordrak, that says its a unit of Ghost Knights. Oh, that's on page 40 of the GK codex in case you missed it.

It says that "Mordrak and the ghost knights form A unit"

So they are a single unit of Mordrak and the ghost knights, and therefore mordrak is not a unit that always consists of a single model, as he has other models in his unit.

pg .40, GK Codex:

Whenever Mordrak suffers an unsaved wound, roll a D3 at the end of the phase. If the result is equal to or greater than the number of Mordrak's remaining wounds. a Ghost Knight appears to defend him. Place a new Ghost Knight within coherency of Mordrak's unit. It join Mordrak's unit to all intents and purposes.

If Mordrak had purchased no Ghost Knights, what is Mordrak's unit?

Mordrak is not 'always a unit consisting of a single model', because throughout the entire game, he has the possibilty to be joined by a ghost knight, whether he purchased them or not. And this comes from his unit profile, not that of a ghost knight, so it functions solely within his ruleset.

Meaning, no matter how you buy him or deploy him, he is always a unit that could consist of more than one model, simply for the Ghostly Bodyguard rule.


Furthermore, it is impossible to have a unit of Ghost Knights without Mordrak. And when you do have them (whether purchased or spawned), his unit is a unit that consists of more than 1 model. So, because when they appear, they must form a unit, and they can appear at any time, whether you bought them or not, Mordrak could never possibly be a unit that consists of only 1 model, ever.

It honestly wouldn't matter if he could spontaneously generate ghost knights or not. He is clearly not a unit that only ever consists of one model. Same as a lone carnifex is not. You can join an alpha warrior to a lone carnifex, because they can form units.

Sir_Prometheus wrote:

So the unit of Ghost Knights is also a unit of Grand Master Mordrak? That's what you just said...

*sigh*That's not what I said, but they are one unit.

More importantly, WTF DOES IT MATTER?!?

Because if it's not a unit of Grand Master Mordrak, then GMM is a unit that only ever consists of one model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Except "(a)n army that includes Grand Master Mordrak can also include a unit of Ghost Knights." That doesn't say it's a unit of Grand Master Mordrak, that says its a unit of Ghost Knights. Oh, that's on page 40 of the GK codex in case you missed it.

It says that "Mordrak and the ghost knights form A unit"

So they are a single unit of Mordrak and the ghost knights, and therefore mordrak is not a unit that always consists of a single model, as he has other models in his unit.

And that unit is called ... ?
It's absolutely relevant. The first sentence of the rule states that it is a unit of Ghost Knights.
Cite the unit that is named GMM that ever consists of more than one model.

rigeld2 wrote:

Sir_Prometheus wrote:

So the unit of Ghost Knights is also a unit of Grand Master Mordrak? That's what you just said...

*sigh*That's not what I said, but they are one unit.

More importantly, WTF DOES IT MATTER?!?

Because if it's not a unit of Grand Master Mordrak, then GMM is a unit that only ever consists of one model.

Nope, sorry. I've now gone and read this whole thread, much to my regret. You keep on saying that, but that does not make it so.

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Except "(a)n army that includes Grand Master Mordrak can also include a unit of Ghost Knights." That doesn't say it's a unit of Grand Master Mordrak, that says its a unit of Ghost Knights. Oh, that's on page 40 of the GK codex in case you missed it.

It says that "Mordrak and the ghost knights form A unit"

So they are a single unit of Mordrak and the ghost knights, and therefore mordrak is not a unit that always consists of a single model, as he has other models in his unit.

And that unit is called ... ?
It's absolutely relevant. The first sentence of the rule states that it is a unit of Ghost Knights.
Cite the unit that is named GMM that ever consists of more than one model.

"Place a new Ghost Knight within coherency of Mordrak's unit." Page 40 GK Dex.

Mordrak's unit has ghost knights in it, therefore he is never a unit that always consists of a single model.

Thanks puma - that clears up Mordrak for me.

*sigh* I'm sorry, it shouldn't.

Why? Models join Mordrak's unit. Therefore Mordrak's unit does not always consist of a single model.

Not hard to follow. I don't think I missed anyone else saying that.

I follow you. Your argument is invalid.

How is it invalid? Could you explain what you mean instead of being passive aggressively vague?

It does not matter what the name of the unit is. Whether, it's Mordrak, ghost knights, or mordrak and the pointer sisters.

Mordrak is a guy, he can buy the ghosts as an option, and they're a unit. He, the whole unit, everything, is therefore not "always consist of a single model. " that is super freaking obvious, you've been quibbling, and wasting everyone's time.

Sir_Prometheus wrote:
It does not matter what the name of the unit is. Whether, it's Mordrak, ghost knights, or mordrak and the pointer sisters.

Mordrak is a guy, he can buy the ghosts as an option, and they're a unit. He, the whole unit, everything, is therefore not "always consist of a single model. " that is super freaking obvious, you've been quibbling, and wasting everyone's time.

It absolutely matters what the name of the unit is. That's exactly what the IC rule is looking for. Does that unit ever exist as more than one model?
Buying the Ghosts doesn't make a unit of Mordrak, it makes a unit of Ghost Knights - so Mordrak (as a unit) still only ever exists as one model.

I'm not "wasting" anyone's time.