Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2013/02/22 00:51:02
Subject: Britain to india: No, you cant have your Diamond back"
AMRITSAR, India (Reuters) - British Prime Minister David Cameron says a giant diamond his country forced India to hand over in the colonial era that was set in a royal crown will not be returned.
Speaking on the third and final day of a visit to India aimed at drumming up trade and investment, Cameron ruled out handing back the 105-carat Koh-i-Noor diamond, now on display in the Tower of London. The diamond had been set in the crown of the current Queen Elizabeth's late mother.
One of the world's largest diamonds, some Indians - including independence leader Mahatma Gandhi's grandson - have demanded its return to atone for Britain's colonial past.
"I don't think that's the right approach," Cameron told reporters on Wednesday after becoming the first serving British prime minister to voice regret about one of the bloodiest episodes in colonial India, a massacre of unarmed civilians in the city of Amritsar in 1919.
"It is the same question with the Elgin Marbles," he said, referring to the classical Greek marble sculptures that Athens has long demanded be given back.
"The right answer is for the British Museum and other cultural institutions to do exactly what they do, which is to link up with other institutions around the world to make sure that the things which we have and look after so well are properly shared with people around the world.
"I certainly don't believe in 'returnism', as it were. I don't think that's sensible."
Britain's then colonial governor-general of India arranged for the huge diamond to be presented to Queen Victoria in 1850.
If Kate Middleton, the wife of Prince William, who is second in line to the throne, eventually becomes queen consort she will don the crown holding the diamond on official occasions.
When Elizabeth II made a state visit to India to mark the 50th anniversary of India's independence from Britain in 1997, many Indians demanded the return of the diamond.
Cameron is keen to tap into India's economic rise, but says he is anxious to focus on the present and future rather than "reach back" into the past.
(Reporting By Andrew Osborn; Editing by Michael Roddy)
(This story was corrected to remove reference to Queen Elizabeth I in the lead paragraph)
5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
2013/02/22 00:57:06
Subject: Britain to india: No, you cant have your Diamond back"
Horst wrote:This is how trolling happens. A few cheeky posts are made. Then they get more insulting. Eventually, we revert to our primal animal state, hurling feces at each other while shreeking with glee.
2013/02/22 00:58:37
Subject: Britain to india: No, you cant have your Diamond back"
It changed hands many times over the years, now it belongs to the Queen. Deal with it. I think some Indians are getting ahead of themselves a little, to be honest. Yes, we would like to do business with them, but they're not at the stage where they can start taking the piss. We're still sending them hundreds of millions in aid, after all.
Maybe they should worry a little more about this:
and a little less about this:
And hey, whilst we're asking for stuff back, perhaps they might like to pay us back for all the railways we built them? No? Shall we just call it a wash and get on with our lives then?
My dream response from Cameron when they asked for the return of the diamond: "Look here, we let you have your bloody country back, so don't get cheeky"
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
It's my sincere belief that Cameron would be wildly popular as President of the USA. He's a libertarian, stands up for his country on the world stage and is committed to fiscal responsibility. By the same token, Obama would probably be very popular as Prime Minister over here.
Albatross wrote: It's my sincere belief that Cameron would be wildly popular as President of the USA. He's a libertarian, stands up for his country on the world stage and is committed to fiscal responsibility. By the same token, Obama would probably be very popular as Prime Minister over here.
We'll trade you! If you take Obama we'll take Cameron... and to balance things out you take half the film industry yahoos, we'll take responsibility for the care of Margaret Thatcher if she's still alive, and we'll issue a formal apology as a nation for inflicting Madonna on you.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/22 01:37:28
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
fire4effekt wrote: Sorry bout not doing enough to prevent the famines (which have been a fact of life in India for hundreds of years) mate, enjoy the lifeblood of your economy
Fixed.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @KM - I didn't say I wanted Obama! I think he's the ultimate triumph of style over substance.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/22 01:41:30
Albatross wrote: It changed hands many times over the years, now it belongs to the Queen. Deal with it. I think some Indians are getting ahead of themselves a little, to be honest. Yes, we would like to do business with them, but they're not at the stage where they can start taking the piss. We're still sending them hundreds of millions in aid, after all.
Maybe they should worry a little more about this:
and a little less about this:
And hey, whilst we're asking for stuff back, perhaps they might like to pay us back for all the railways we built them? No? Shall we just call it a wash and get on with our lives then?
Horst wrote:This is how trolling happens. A few cheeky posts are made. Then they get more insulting. Eventually, we revert to our primal animal state, hurling feces at each other while shreeking with glee.
2013/02/22 01:53:28
Subject: Britain to india: No, you cant have your Diamond back"
Krellnus wrote: So a whole bunch of commotion over some glittery rock? That's uhhhhh, dumb.
Surely this cuts in both directions, yes? If it's "just some glittery rock"; it hardly inures the UK to return it, yes?
Not that I'm saying it should be returned, quite the contrary. George H.W. Bush once famously said "I'll never apologize for America", which I always thought was a very pig-headed thing to say (especially after you've accidentally killed hundreds of civilians). My mom always told me when you do something wrong, and you know you did, then the right thing to do is apologize for it, and try to make it right. I think that's a solid policy for both men and nations.
But the general cap on that, in my opinion, is when every single person who was still alive when the incident has happened has died of old age. Some exclusions apply, such as with genocides, but little stuff like this is way past it's sell-by date IMO.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2013/02/22 01:54:28
Subject: Re:Britain to india: No, you cant have your Diamond back"
Albatross wrote: It's my sincere belief that Cameron would be wildly popular as President of the USA. He's a libertarian, stands up for his country on the world stage and is committed to fiscal responsibility. By the same token, Obama would probably be very popular as Prime Minister over here.
We'll trade you! If you take Obama we'll take Cameron... and to balance things out you take half the film industry yahoos, we'll take responsibility for the care of Margaret Thatcher if she's still alive, and we'll issue a formal apology as a nation for inflicting Madonna on you.
I'll second that notion!
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2013/02/22 02:09:53
Subject: Britain to india: No, you cant have your Diamond back"
fire4effekt wrote: Sorry bout not doing enough to prevent the famines (which have been a fact of life in India for hundreds of years) mate, enjoy the lifeblood of your economy
I haven't seen the Koh-I-Noor diamond, but I have seen the Hope Diamond in the Smithsonian.
That thing was also taken from India, in what were likely some pretty dodgy circumstances, and sold to King Louis XIV. It was pinched by persons unknown during the French revolution, before finally turning up in the posession of a diamond merchant in London. It traded hands across Atlantic a bunch of times, before finally ending up in the possession of a deeply crazy socialite who kept it hidden in the sofa cushions, and at one point had it set in her dog's collar. She died, left it to her grandkids, who put it in the Smithsonian. Which I'm grateful for, because it's a hell of a sight to see.
So who gets to demand that diamond gets returned? There's a pretty good chance it was originally nicked by a Frenchman from the Indians. And it was certainly pilfered from Louis XVI during the revolution... so can the French demand it back?
History isn't kind, especially for the Indians who exploited by the British for a long time, but it isn't practical to have any kind of takesy backsy policy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/22 02:19:31
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2013/02/22 02:20:46
Subject: Britain to india: No, you cant have your Diamond back"
Albatross wrote:
And hey, whilst we're asking for stuff back, perhaps they might like to pay us back for all the railways we built them? No? Shall we just call it a wash and get on with our lives then?
Uh... I'm not so certain there were many white guys swinging hammers there.
...not that I think it should be returned (Hell no); it's just that I don't think you're presenting a very good argument...
2013/02/22 06:21:33
Subject: Britain to india: No, you cant have your Diamond back"
fire4effekt wrote: Sorry bout not doing enough to prevent the famines (which have been a fact of life in India for hundreds of years) mate, enjoy the lifeblood of your economy
Did you read that page? In a letter he sent, he cites himself as a source.
Seriously, he sent a from letter to Australian MPs and all four of the sources for facts quoted in it were articles and interviews that he had written/done.
fire4effekt wrote: Sorry bout not doing enough to prevent the famines (which have been a fact of life in India for hundreds of years) mate, enjoy the lifeblood of your economy
Fixed.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @KM - I didn't say I wanted Obama! I think he's the ultimate triumph of style over substance.
LOL as a conservative, I appreciate this assessment by a neutral observer. i.e. Talk the talk but NEVER walk the walk.
2000
2000
WIP
3000
8000
2013/02/22 13:31:09
Subject: Britain to india: No, you cant have your Diamond back"
Albatross wrote: It's my sincere belief that Cameron would be wildly popular as President of the USA. He's a libertarian, stands up for his country on the world stage and is committed to fiscal responsibility. By the same token, Obama would probably be very popular as Prime Minister over here.
We'll trade you! If you take Obama we'll take Cameron... and to balance things out you take half the film industry yahoos, we'll take responsibility for the care of Margaret Thatcher if she's still alive, and we'll issue a formal apology as a nation for inflicting Madonna on you.
So much Win!
8000 Dark Angels (No primaris)
10000 Lizardmen (Fantasy I miss you)
3000 High Elves 4000 Kel'shan Ta'u "He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which." -Douglas Adams
2013/02/22 17:09:57
Subject: Re:Britain to india: No, you cant have your Diamond back"
Albatross wrote:
And hey, whilst we're asking for stuff back, perhaps they might like to pay us back for all the railways we built them? No? Shall we just call it a wash and get on with our lives then?
Uh... I'm not so certain there were many white guys swinging hammers there.
Nope, just white bankers, engineers, administrators, civil servants and politicians that actually made it happen. If manpower was the issue, India would have had a railway roughly 1000 years before we did.
In any case, it was a reductio ad absurdum. I wasn't being serious.
Albatross wrote:
And hey, whilst we're asking for stuff back, perhaps they might like to pay us back for all the railways we built them? No? Shall we just call it a wash and get on with our lives then?
Uh... I'm not so certain there were many white guys swinging hammers there.
Nope, just white bankers, engineers, administrators, civil servants and politicians that actually made it happen. If manpower was the issue, India would have had a railway roughly 1000 years before we did.
In any case, it was a reductio ad absurdum. I wasn't being serious.
This reminds me of a visit I took to India several years back. I was walking through New Delhi with my guide and I asked him what he thought of the British. He stopped, looked at me, then gestured around him and said "Everything that works here was made by the British."
I'm both selfish and rational. I'm scheming, secretive and manipulative; I use knowledge as a tool for personal gain, and in turn obtaining more knowledge. At best, I am mysterious and stealthy; at worst, I am distrustful and opportunistic.
2013/02/22 18:27:39
Subject: Britain to india: No, you cant have your Diamond back"
fire4effekt wrote: Sorry bout not doing enough to prevent the famines (which have been a fact of life in India for hundreds of years) mate, enjoy the lifeblood of your economy
Fixed.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @KM - I didn't say I wanted Obama! I think he's the ultimate triumph of style over substance.
New Labour would have loved Obama as a leader.
Obama hated Brown, but I think he has copied a lot of his style from Blair, many leaders around the world have. I hate Blair, and think he had a disasterous effect on our future, but he is a clever man.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
2013/02/23 11:17:51
Subject: Britain to india: No, you cant have your Diamond back"
5000pts 
6000pts 
3000pts
2000
2000
WIP
3000
8000 
(Fantasy I miss you)
