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I plan on picking up both for my GK but I have no experience with either.

I have a couple of friends that field Moniliths and Landraiders which are hard for GK to crack. All I have for that is a dreadknight, Might of Titan on my Libby, and a mult-melta on a storm raven. Storm ravens usually only gets 1 or 2 shots due to limiting fire arc since its a flyer and my other options are both cc. Would a Vindicare assassin be a worthy investment for the 4d6 armor pen shot?

For DC assassins I was thinking of going power lance and power axe combo. My friends play Nids, Orls, Eldar, Necrons, GK, and Deathwing. Majority of the saves are 4+ so the lances would still be good in the following rounds plus they should most likely get the assault since ill put them in my storm raven. They got axes when they need them plus ill put a few crusaders with axes to tank hits for them. Thoughts?

 Kiggler wrote:
Storm ravens usually only gets 1 or 2 shots due to limiting fire arc since its a flyer and my other options are both cc.

Hover your flyers when something needs dead.

Would a Vindicare assassin be a worthy investment for the 4d6 armor pen shot?

Absolutely.

it's not just 4d6, it's 4d6+3 (cause it's a sniper rifle, they count as strength 3). It's pretty much one of the best anti vehicle weapons in the game, short of destroyer weapons.

Just remember, even with 3+ cover and 4++, he'll die to a stiff breeze. Only T4. Failed that krak missile? Dead. There goes a tank's worth of points. He's a very fine example of a glass cannon. You need to be very aware of his deployment and terrain.

The actual "combo" for DCA and Vindicare, also involves a techmarine with rad grenades.

You get some DCA and 3 crusaders in a transport, a Raven or a Raider. You could even add a flamer guy. You attach the techie to this squad, and you get another flamer, rad grenades 2 powerfist attacks, and hammerhand.

The DCA should have a sword and an axe, so you can choose with which weapon attack depending on your enemy.

The techie improves the ruin where the Vindicare is gonna be, and it gets a 2+ cover.

It is a pretty costy investment, but if you are running a henchmen list, you can compensate, and the DCA squad is a mini deathstar, deathstar killer.

I think a Vindicare, is almost allways worth it. Even if your enemy pulls a fast one on you and doesn't deploy any tanks, his other bullets still provied a variety of utility that will really hurt all IC's.

Don't forget that he ignores Look Out Sir!, so if they are no tanks, feel free to snipe the enemy's HQ and try to take away their ++ save.

Thanks looks like I am picking up a vindicare this weekend.

Any more comments on the DCA power lance and power axe combo? Only a few things I play against have 3+ save such as a few GK squads, necron immortals, and elder SS. Even if those survive a round of combat there wont be enough of them left to make a difference. Never thought of running a tech marine with them. That might be what I need to give the squad frag grenades plus other bonuses. I would of be afraid of him getting challenged though.

If you are "really" afraid of him being challenged, give him a nemesis halberd.

And what you want to do with your DCA squad is to not kill an entire unit in your turn. You want to kill it in the enemy assault phase, so you don't get shot.

the vindicare can be the uber to end all ubers some games, and can die easily in others,
depends on how you do with cover saves

DCA's are the shiznit

I do go for the power axe/maul combo over anything else (if I have a lot of assasins, I throw a couple axe/sword combos in there)

mainly because the axes are uber against 2+ saves,

but the mauls are godly against the other stuff,

str 6 attacks, at i6 ap 4 will kill most things VERY well,

add some hammer hand/rad grenades to the DCA and now its str 7 on an enemy with -1t
, not to mention you can also throw some psycho troke grenades in with the character too...

so you basically wound most things on a 2+ with mauls, I find they are usefull in more situations then even the axes

but if your meta is all VS MEQ's the swords do *slightly* better against them then mauls, but not by much

the DCA's are fragile however, their invun is ok, but I find a couple crusaders up front with their 3++ helps to mitigate some shooting, or put them in a chimera/landraider/storm raven ect

I have been finding 6 crusaders /axes + 5 DCA with maul/sword + techy in a SR is a killer combo. I would advise against more DCA's b/c you really dont need that much more hitting power (left out in the open during their turn of shooting) and the crusaders offer SR crash protection.

I find that DCA will almost always kill whatever unit they charge on the turn that they charge. They are one of the highest damage units for the price.

You will want several crusaders for some durability in the unit. 5-6 DCA is usually enough to destroy whatever they touch. 4-5 crusaders is usually about what you want as well.



Weapons on the DCA

I think that the Ax is mandatory. When you really need AP2, you need it.


The Sword is the best against Marines
The Mace is better against anything that is not marines

How often are you fighting marines is the question to decide between these 2 weapons.


The lance is an interesting option. You have a great weapon on the charge. However, if a second enemy charges you after you hit the first unit, you may be in a bit of trouble. Something like Khorne Bezerkers or Grey hunters might give you trouble. You can't hit first very well to think their numbers. They have a lot of attacks to stack on damage to your 3++ crusaders.

Also, if your plane is shot down, then you might never get to charge at all.

The lance seems to be high risk, high reward on a unit that is already high risk, high reward. I do not think you really need the extra power of the lance on the turn you charge to really good in combat, and it just makes you worse on any combat where you don't charge. You do not need the reward, so all you are getting is extra risk.


LASTLY, Remember that your DCA do not have grenades. Be very careful how you set up your assault moves.
======

Giving your Vindicare a 2++ cover save is nearly mandatory I think. It statistically doubles his survivability. Also, I have found that with a 2+ cover save, people do not want to fire weapons at him.

[quote=svendrex 510220 5330965 2059c51ff22fb8419fc519dc7904b427.jpgAlso, I have found that with a 2+ cover save, people do not want to fire weapons at him.

the other reason why the str 6 DCA assassins with the maul/axe over the sword/axe

is that you likely already HAVE a bunch of AP3 stuff on your grey knights already,

and they already walk through MEQ's in ccw,

three(four on the charge) attacks at str 6 Int 6 AP4 each, will roll through those units that dont fit into the MEQ catagory, but never the less, are nightmares in CCQ

such as:
dreadnaughts, high toughness models, or t3 swarms, or models with 2+ saves that you HAVE to kill by forcing lots of saves before they get to go,

you get to be faster and stronger then most eldar, and i think tie with mose dark eldar for speed, but you are likely still stronger.

personally i use crusaders to toughen the unit up as well,

that being said, a couple swords will be really handy some times, and less handy other times, really wont be a game changer, but dont over look a few +2 str mauls in the unit

 greyknight12 wrote:
it's not just 4d6, it's 4d6+3 (cause it's a sniper rifle, they count as strength 3). It's pretty much one of the best anti vehicle weapons in the game, short of destroyer weapons.

I think it might even be better than that, 4d6+3+rending (d3 for each 6 when rolling to Pen) so if you got 4 6's it would be S24+3+12(if you got max on the D3 rending rolls)=39 lol (I might just be making things up now, can anyone confirm if it would actually work like this?)

 Messy0 wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
it's not just 4d6, it's 4d6+3 (cause it's a sniper rifle, they count as strength 3). It's pretty much one of the best anti vehicle weapons in the game, short of destroyer weapons.

I think it might even be better than that, 4d6+3+rending (d3 for each 6 when rolling to Pen) so if you got 4 6's it would be S24+3+12=39 lol (I might just be making things up now, can anyone confirm if it would actually work like this?)

It does. GW did confirm that multiple 6's = multiple d3's with FAQ, though it makes no difference in actual game. (If you roll 2 sixes, min result is 17 before rolling for d3's)

Luide wrote:

 Messy0 wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
it's not just 4d6, it's 4d6+3 (cause it's a sniper rifle, they count as strength 3). It's pretty much one of the best anti vehicle weapons in the game, short of destroyer weapons.

I think it might even be better than that, 4d6+3+rending (d3 for each 6 when rolling to Pen) so if you got 4 6's it would be S24+3+12=39 lol (I might just be making things up now, can anyone confirm if it would actually work like this?)

It does. GW did confirm that multiple 6's = multiple d3's with FAQ, though it makes no difference in actual game. (If you roll 2 sixes, min result is 17 before rolling for d3's)

Still, crazy awesome just for the image of a skinny guy with kick ass goggles carrying a S39 sniper gun ripping though a Land raider like it was cheap origami...epic

I have a bunch of henchmen, I really like their fluff. I do not however have any GK other than one dreadknight. So i don't have othe GK ap3 weapons to rely on. I run one assault squad of 6 DCA, 4 crusaders and they will have probably one psyker inquisitor and one techmarine with them. I just need to figure out what combination of power weapons will be most efficient to come all bases. One great thing about power lances on DCA is that they get an additional power weapon which can cover the shortfalls of the lance. DCA would look cool with a lance also IMO.

So far I am thinking of running 4 crusades with axes, 5 DCA and either a tech marine or a inquisitor. I don't play against much MEQ, already listed what I play against above. Mauls would work but I don't have the bitz to represent them plus I think lances on DCA would look badass. There are some cases I can just deploy them normally and use them to counter assault if I am fighting orks or nids. I may have to play test it a few times to see what I like better.

lances are even better then swords, if MEQ killin gis your thing, they do it best,


its actually hard to go wrong with DCA, because even with 4-6 of them you get access to 8-12 power weapons, 3 attacks per weapon of your choice, uber specialized, or mixed weapons work very well as long as you have crusaders to keep them alive lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
IE 6 DCA can have 3lances, 6 axes, 3 mauls,

best to have a few extra of the slow stuff, so you knwo you get a few models to attack with it,

the other weapons, really, id just figure out what I play against most and equip due to that (high T models are prevailant in my areas meta hence mauls all the time with aaxes for me)

heck even if you base it on looks, or just have a random mix, DCA have so many attacks youll likely be over killing whatever they charge anyway