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2013/03/06 01:56:13
Subject: 1750 - Jy2's Road to the Bay Area Open GT - Hive Fleet Pandora (Army Pics on p.3, Game #2 on p.5)
Red Corsair wrote: Yea tough loss with the failed saves though you have to admit your initial rolls for your powers seemed crazy! I can't believe that batch of biomancy powers! Then he forgets 2 annihilation barges!!! I think the luck swings both ways here but I agree you played the game you needed to and sometimes thats all you can do.
Now if you want to discuss luck then how about that final game! I think it is safe to say she would have beat any player she was pitted against in the final round with dice like that!
Heck I wish I could have attended! So I am still envious One of these days I'll just go for it, but it's a long voyage from rural Maine
Good rep man!
Yeah, I thought I would clobber my opponent. I had some awesome psychic powers. There was a big LOS-blocking terrain in the center and my opponent had no real ranged shooting or any scary cc-threats. The list, the matchup and the experience belonged to me. The only thing he had on his side was a little luck, but apparently, that was enough.
I forgot about those AB's also.
As for Liz, you need skill, the right matchup and a little luck sometimes to get you over that hump. In her case, she got all 3. Her army was a bad matchup for Alan (even though he got some good psychic powers) and with her luck, he just couldn't overcome. This tournament was just hers for the taking.
Dude, you should take a road trip for the next BAO tournament. Take a vacation and come see the west coast! It's only 6 hours away.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/07 03:41:05
That is a tough one to swallow. Though if I have to pick a time to lose a game I would rather it be the first then the last. After losing that first game you kind of play more loose and with less pressure. In ways it becomes more enjoyable or in some cases if you have a long drive its not bad to cut out early. Nothing worse then losing in the finals and getting the old it was a good run but nothing to show for it. In addition, I cant stand when the odds are not necessarily going against the norm but when they go flat out crazy it kind of takes things away from the game.
Example: In my GT game two I apologized to my opponent for my wraiths when they took a charge from an ork blob and made every save without taking a wound . Nothing I did there to make that happen. Just the dice happened to agree with me staying there.
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
Mission:Bay Area Open Scenario #2 - The Scouring (4pts) & Purge the Alien (3pts)
The way the BAO scenarios work is this. There are always 2 book missions, one worth 4 points and the other worth 3 points. There are also the 3 bonus points - First Blood, Slay the Warlord and Linebreaker - for a possible total of 10 points. Whoever gets the most points wins. In scenario #2, Purge the Alien is worth 3-points and the Scouring worth 4-points.
I cannot take his army lightly. Guards are always dangerous and he's got the tools to really hurt me. Fortunately for me, we are playing an objectives-based mission. I should be able to take the Scouring and it is the Primary. Unfortunately for me, it is also Victory Points. That mission has a tendency to discourage me from producing gants. Also, what's going to hurt is that he has a lot of blast weapons....not so good for an army that likes to stay together like mine. I'm also going to have some problems trying to crack those leman russes so I just may have to ignore them. On the other hand, he may have problems against my flyrants as well, especially if I can get Iron Arm. I think that if he can down my flyrants early, then he has a chance to take this. Otherwise, he has no chance.
His 2 chimeras searchlight my gargoyles and my Warlord.
Shooting then kills 7 gargoyles and 1 biovore (from a scattering leman russ shot) as well as taking off 3W from my Warlord.
Tyranids 1
Spoiler:
I cast my psychic powers - Endurance on both flyrants. I would continue to cast whatever psychic powers I can every turn.
Flyrants swoop.
The rest of my army advances. Both tervgions spawn gants. One of them runs out.
Flyrant takes out 1 chimera for First Blood. The explosion combined with shooting from the other flyrant takes out 7 veterans. They would then fall back.
IG: 0, Tyranids: 1
The bugs run.
Imperial Guards 2
Spoiler:
IG movement. 1 vendetta comes in. The fleeing plasma-vets regroup.
His shooting kills 7 gants, 3 gargoyles and put 1W on my tervigon.
But more importantly, he fails to do anything to my flyrants. Between the vendetta, his 2 infantry squads, the 2 veterans and his 2 chimeras, he manages only to ground one of my flyrants. However, I get really hot with my FNP saves and make all the crucial ones (against the grounding and his vendetta lascannons).
Man, I dodged a bullet there. One of those flyrants (my Warlord) should have gone down.
Tyranids 2
Spoiler:
The bugs continue to advance. The Doom fails to come in. However, the gants come in and swarm towards one of my objectives.
My Warlord glides and prepares to assault. The other flyrant swoops.
In my shooting phase, the swooping flyrant shoots down his vendetta from the rear. 3-4 of his PCS dies in the explosion and they get pinned. My Warlord shoots down 4 guardsmen from his blob squad and biovores take out 3 veterans.
IG: 0, Tyranids: 2
My Warlord then assaults (BTW, he has Warp Speed on).
He then runs down the unit in a sweeping advance.
IG: 0, Tyranids: 3
Imperial Guards 3
Spoiler:
The other vendetta comes in. Bye, bye Warlord.
IG movement.
He finally gets his first VP and Warlord at the same time.
IG: 1, Tyranids: 3
He then focuses on my gargoyles. I go-to-ground (they were out of synapse) and I only lose 3. 1 hive guard also takes 1W from a scattering shot.
Gargoyles would then fail morale and flee....only to fall back into Synapse range, thus automatically regrouping next turn.
He cannot hurt nor ground my other flyrant.
Tyranids 3
Spoiler:
Tervigons advance. I am going after his chimera. My gribblies swarm the objectives.
The flyrant goes after his veterans.
Flyrant shoots at his veterans. They would then fail morale and fall back, thus denying my flyrant the charge.
Tervigon and gants assault the chimera.
I blow up the transport, killing 4 gants and 5 veterans in the process.
IG: 1, Tyranids: 4
Imperial Guards 4
Spoiler:
Veterans regroup. Vendetta goes after my flyrant. His CCS goes for the objective (his Warlord is scoring due to his Warlord trait).
My opponent manages to bring down my other flyrant.
IG: 2, Tyranids: 4
At this point, my opponent concedes. I've got 4 of the Scouring objectives to his 1 or 2. I'm beating him on VP's and will probably get more with the Doom yet to come in. There is no way for him to take this one. He is just content about killing both of my flyrants and claiming my Warlord. Tyranids win 10-1.
Crushing Victory by Hive Fleet Pandora!!!
Thanks, Matt, you really were an awesome opponent. Kept your positive attitude despite the dice going against you.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2013/03/06 19:52:42
Wow, tough luck on that first game. The next game's looking to be a good fight, can't go wrong with Tyranids vs Imperial Guard.
Ailaros wrote: You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!"
2013/03/06 05:45:14
Subject: 1750 - Jy2's Road to the Bay Area Open GT - Hive Fleet Pandora (Army Pics on p.3, Game #1 on p.4)
"I can do well if I get Iron Arm!"
<doesn't roll Iron Arm>
"... Crapstick."
I hate that feeling. I love Psychic Choir when it works, but when I end up with Haemorrhage on 4 guys - even after dropping 2 Haems for Smite - I know the game is just going to not go well.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
2013/03/06 11:28:11
Subject: 1750 - Jy2's Road to the Bay Area Open GT - Hive Fleet Pandora (Army Pics on p.3, Game #1 on p.4)
I also took my first loss (second round) from an unassuming Necron infantry list...tough break. Can't believe he forgot his Annihilation Barges! Tesla Destructors are my most reliable Tyranid-killers when I'm playing Necrons.
Strong comeback in game 2. Fun read too, I've always liked to see bugs swarming toward an entrenched Guard army. Looking forward to game 3...I promise I won't spoil anything.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/06 21:55:47
2013/03/06 20:45:26
Subject: Re:1750 - Jy2's Road to the Bay Area Open GT - Hive Fleet Pandora (Army Pics on p.3, Game #1 on p.4)
Nice to see things turned around for you JY2. I gotta say though that match up was not the one that the IG plaeyer was hoping for, betweem flying monstrous creatures and the doom having the potenital to suck up a whole bunch of guardsman. When he failed to kill your warlord on the first turn and couldn't take out either one on the next turn I think that really sealed the deal. I believe had he killed off both flyrants before they got to his lines the game would have been much closer to even, so to speak, as your gants would have been trying to tarpit his guardsman and your tervigons trying to take out his leman russes, still would be an uphill battle for him but he'd have a better chance to possibly win(LC from vendettas taking out a tervigon or a leman russ taking out a whole unit of guants etc.) Nice battle report as always and am looking forward to the next one
2500pts 2000
2013/03/06 21:14:19
Subject: 1750 - Jy2's Road to the Bay Area Open GT - Hive Fleet Pandora (Army Pics on p.3, Game #1 on p.4)
Solid second game. Good recovery after losing your first game. Flyrants played a key role being fire magnets, survivng turn 2 IG shooting, and wreaking on IG infantry.
whigwam wrote: I also took my first loss (second round) to an unsuspecting Necron infantry list...tough break. Can't believe he forgot his Annihilation Barges! Tesla Destructors are my most reliable Tyranid-killers when I'm playing Necrons.
Strong comeback in game 2. Fun read too, I've always liked to see bugs swarming toward an entrenched Guard army. Looking forward to game 3...I promise I won't spoil anything.
Did that Necron list have 46 Necron Warriors, 3 Barges, Imotekh, Destroyer Lord, Wraiths, and Aegis? I may have played against it.
Yeah, that's the one. 4 of his Wraiths walked through 18 of my Screamers like they were nothing. I've woken up in a cold sweat yelling "SCREAMERS, NOOO" every night since.
2013/03/06 23:11:04
Subject: 1750 - Jy2's Road to the Bay Area Open GT - Hive Fleet Pandora (Army Pics on p.3, Game #1 on p.4)
Eldercaveman wrote: If Doom hurts him self with MSS, does he regain wounds for causing wounds...... Paradox?
Lol. Never thought about it that way.
However, he was at S8-9 at the time, so any successful unsaved wounds would have insta-gibbed himself.
Tomb King wrote: That is a tough one to swallow. Though if I have to pick a time to lose a game I would rather it be the first then the last. After losing that first game you kind of play more loose and with less pressure. In ways it becomes more enjoyable or in some cases if you have a long drive its not bad to cut out early. Nothing worse then losing in the finals and getting the old it was a good run but nothing to show for it. In addition, I cant stand when the odds are not necessarily going against the norm but when they go flat out crazy it kind of takes things away from the game.
Example: In my GT game two I apologized to my opponent for my wraiths when they took a charge from an ork blob and made every save without taking a wound . Nothing I did there to make that happen. Just the dice happened to agree with me staying there.
That is true. It'll take some of the pressure away. Also, your opponent for the next match will be a little easier. Thus, your entire schedule may be slightly easier. Though for me, I'd rather play the tough, hard matches over the easier ones.
Yeah, sometimes when the dice are too extreme (esp. for my opponent), I feel kind of bad, like in my game #2. Game #2 was almost the complete reversal of game #1. Because when the dice are that extreme, it isn't really you beating your opponent. Rather, it is the dice.
rigeld2 wrote: "I can do well if I get Iron Arm!"
<doesn't roll Iron Arm>
"... Crapstick."
I hate that feeling. I love Psychic Choir when it works, but when I end up with Haemorrhage on 4 guys - even after dropping 2 Haems for Smite - I know the game is just going to not go well.
That's why you shouldn't rely too much on those psychic powers. If you don't get the powers that you would like, then you're just going to have to improvise. Nids can still do well without the powers, though the powers do make it much easier for them.
I way I look at it, psychic powers are just a bonus. The foundation of the army must be solid in order for your army to be a true TAC army. That is, your army must be able to function properly no matter what type of psychic powers you get. If it can't do that - if it is too reliant on its psychic prowess in order to compete - then it isn't truly balanced.
Red Corsair wrote: I love that the best powers were not necessarily a '6' and that iron arm is a '1' it is ironic that you start a game hoping to roll 1's lol
It is somewhat counter-intuitive, I admit, but then so are Leadership tests. And who knows, there are probably players out there who think Haemorrhage (the '6') is an awesome power.
Haha, woops! Sorry if I spilled the beans early, Jim, didn't mean to steal your thunder!
No worries, man. It's all good.
Your annoucement kind of caught me by surprise. I really wasn't expecting it. But then when you said "my arch-rival...."
whigwam wrote: I also took my first loss (second round) from an unassuming Necron infantry list...tough break. Can't believe he forgot his Annihilation Barges! Tesla Destructors are my most reliable Tyranid-killers when I'm playing Necrons.
Strong comeback in game 2. Fun read too, I've always liked to see bugs swarming toward an entrenched Guard army. Looking forward to game 3...I promise I won't spoil anything.
Yeah, necrons continue to be under-estimated, even when they aren't using their most powerful builds. I can kind of see why Alex Fennel does so well with his pink-crons. On paper, they don't look very scary...but the synergy they have with each other and when run by a competent general makes them really a formidable enemy.
Dezstiny wrote: Nice to see things turned around for you JY2. I gotta say though that match up was not the one that the IG plaeyer was hoping for, betweem flying monstrous creatures and the doom having the potenital to suck up a whole bunch of guardsman. When he failed to kill your warlord on the first turn and couldn't take out either one on the next turn I think that really sealed the deal. I believe had he killed off both flyrants before they got to his lines the game would have been much closer to even, so to speak, as your gants would have been trying to tarpit his guardsman and your tervigons trying to take out his leman russes, still would be an uphill battle for him but he'd have a better chance to possibly win(LC from vendettas taking out a tervigon or a leman russ taking out a whole unit of guants etc.) Nice battle report as always and am looking forward to the next one
Agreed. Turn 2 was a make-it-or-break-it turn for IG. Break my flyrants and it would have been an uphill battle for me. Fail to do so and I knew this game would be mine. The flyrants are so very important to my list and are the focus of my offense.
wyomingfox wrote: Did you remeber your "It will not Die Rolls" from endurance? Noticed at the end of Turn 1 and 2 you still had 3 wounds on your Warlord.
...and dammit I just realized I lost my Dakka World Wide Campaign Signature. Grrrr.
Edit: Also just curious, but were you able to get some cover saves from his own Aeigis Line seeing how far back some of his guys were?
Yeah, I remembered. Didn't make them, though the way my FNP was going, whew....
No, didn't use the Aegis cover saves because it never really came up. Plasmas never hit and I saved against the lascannons (with FNP).
Solid second game. Good recovery after losing your first game. Flyrants played a key role being fire magnets, survivng turn 2 IG shooting, and wreaking on IG infantry.
Yeah, they always do, the flyrants. That's why they need cover, Endurance and possibly Iron Arm. A flyrant with all 3 can really wreck house.
Reecius wrote: Thanks for taking all those pics, Jim! I was going to but just flat didn't have time.
You're welcome. I quite enjoy taking all those pictures.
And thanks for running the tournament.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/07 01:07:20
Alex, also known as whigwam here on dakka, brought a very good and very nasty daemon army. He won the Feast of Blades GT with his Tzeentch/Nurgle daemon army. I was hoping to be able to play against him in the tournament and was thrilled when I found out he was my Game #3 opponent. Alex won his first game and then he came up to a little snag in his game #2 against necrons....much in the same way that I came up to a little snag in my first game against necrons. So going into this matchup, we were both 1-1. I was hoping to play him in the later rounds (like in, say, Game #7), but since we were both out of the running already, I'll take this matchup in any rounds. So it's GT winner versus GT winner. No matter who wins, I'm going to relish and enjoy this game.
Mission:Bay Area Open Scenario #3 - The Relic (4pts) & Big Guns Never Tire (3pts)
The way the BAO scenarios work is this. There are always 2 book missions, one worth 4 points and the other worth 3 points. There are also the 3 bonus points - First Blood, Slay the Warlord and Linebreaker - for a possible total of 10 points. Whoever gets the most points wins. In scenario #3, Big Guns Never Tire is worth 3-points and The Relic worth 4-points.
The matchup usually boils down to what psychic powers I get (I need Endurance against his army) and also how much gants my tervigons can spawn. If I can spawn a healthy amount of gants, then it's going to be a tough fight for the daemons. Why? Because gants will screen off his screamers, absorb the Overwatch of his flamers and give me the volume-of-attacks that I will need against his army. If my tervigons run dry early, then my opponent will have the advantage instead.
I have another advantage and that is my flyrants. My opponent really has no way to deal with my flyrants if I keep them in the air. He will only be able to do anything to them after they finish an assault (since they will be on the ground then). Also, with my flyrants, there will be no where for his troops to hide. At least he isn't bringing the minimal 5-man troop units. His troops will be much more durable than other daemon builds. On the other hand, with the screamer slash attacks, my opponent should be able to get First Blood first. Then he will have a slight advantage in this game.
Overall, I am looking forwards to this matchup against a top-notch opponent and a top-notch army.
He drops his screamers a little more aggressively.
The flamers and pink horrors spread out.
Both units of screamers turbo-boost over my gargoyles and wipe them out with Slash Attacks. My opponent claims First Blood.
Tyranids 1
Spoiler:
And I am on those screamers like a shark smelling blood (after casting my obligatory psychic powers, of course, including Enfeeble on both units of screamers). My tervigon spawns a very heathly 15 gants without running out.
I split off my flyrants and sic 1 after each unit of screamers. My right tervigon spawns 10 gants. I will reserve my biovores for this unit of screamers.
The screamers must die because their mobility is just too dangerous.
Focus-fire wipes out 5 of the 2W screamers, despite their 4+ turbo-boost cover.
On the other flank, I wipe out 4 screamers.
Then it's off to assault (BTW, my flyrant is at T7).
The gribblies swarm the screamers.
And I wipe them out.
Because my gants were out of range of my tervigon, I only kill 1 screamer here. I actually forget about Enfeeble in combat, wounding the screamers on 5's instead of on 4's. In any case, my gants cannot pile into combat and thus just consolidate.
I know my opponent has got to be concerned now. I've practically taken out 2 of his heavy-hitting units in exchange for only 1 unit of gargoyles.
Daemons 2
Spoiler:
My opponent decides that he's got to play aggressively at this point. His flamers land on target.
His screamers scatter into terrain and he takes 2W from dangerous terrain tests.
His Warlord's unit comes in.
Flamers advance.
His other unit of flamers wipe out my unit of 15 gants.
The screamers turbo over and wipe out another 1 unit of gants.
I believe his strategy currently is to go after my scoring units.
Finally, in assault, my flyrant kills another 1 screamer.
Tyranids 2
Spoiler:
The Doom comes in.
I go after his flamers, who gets Enfeebled. Fortunately for my opponent, I fail to Enfeeble his screamers as well. The tervigon runs out....but not before spawning another 15 gants.
My flyrant glides and prepares to assault. The other tervigon also runs out after spawning 13 gants.
My opponent is slightly more relieved as I have run out of gants. However, he's not going to like this turn.
Gants go after the screamers locked in combat with my flyrant.
After my shooting is done, I've wiped out 7 flamers and 6 screamers!!!
Flyrant then assaults and wipes out the last 2 screamers (of which 1 was already wounded).
Gants charge in and there is only 1 screamer left (with only 1W left).
Finally, hive guards charge the flamer and he survives with 1W left as well.
Daemons 3
Spoiler:
His last unit of flamers fail to come in.
Flamers go for the last hurrah.
Plagues go after the Doom. His Warlord goes to join the other unit of plagues and the pink horrors get away from the Doom.
My opponent catches his only break. He flames the tervigon, wiping out 1 unit of gants in the process. Then out of 8 flame attacks (wounding on 4+'s), he manages to wound my tervigon 7 times! I then fail 6 FNP saves!!! So in 1 mighty shooting phase, he wipes out 1 unit of gants and my tervigons as well. The ensuing explosion kills another 5 gants.
Wow....maybe my opponent does have a chance, however slim, after all.
The plagues assault the Doom. They cause 2W and the Doom kills 2 plagues in return, thus regenerating those 2W back.
My flyrant finally finishes off the screamer.
Finally, my hive guards finish off the lone flamer as well.
Tyranids 3
Spoiler:
His flamers won't survive this turn. I Enfeeble them.
Both flyrants swoop and go after his Warlord.
His Warlord survives with 1W left. However, he loses 5 plagues from Look-Out-Sirs.
The flamers survive my shooting, losing only 4 and taking 1W on a model.
Now will they survive assault? I charge in with the small unit of gants first and it gets reduced to just 1 model left from Overwatch. I then safely charge in with the rest of my army.
The Doom kills another plague in assault and I believe he causes 1 unsaved wound on the Doom as well.
Daemons 4
Spoiler:
Time is running out. We just have an abbreviated turn to see what we can do.
He drops his last unit of flamers and they scatter away from my biovores. I have 2 scoring units on the objective (both biovores). He can only kill 1.
In the worst case scenario, I can move my gants over to take that objective as well. I still have bottom of 4.
I'm contesting his objective, with 2 flyrants that can easily get to either of his objectives.
I also have my Big Guns objective. So I have 2 objectives and he will have none (not with my flyrants there).
It was debatable whether I could reach the relic next turn (I could have definitely done it in 2 turns) so we just play it as a No on the Relic.
Finally, I would easily get Linebreaker and Warlord on my turn.
So I take the Secondary (Big Guns Never Tire) as well as Linebreaker and Warlord. My opponent takes First Blood and Linebreaker (his flamers).
Tyranids win it 5-2.
Crushing Victory by Hive Fleet Pandora!!!
This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 2013/03/07 15:43:09
Well played on your part Jy2, when I saw the Daemon list I figured you had this one.
Tyranids are a hard matchup for Daemons in general - I cannot speak for the new codex yet -Players who ran the max Screamers/Flamers are asking to lose to this matchup - and the list makes me die a bit on the inside. The reason being it makes some players feel like it is brutally overpowered by crushing them (mainly Marines) or - in the case of running into a list like this one - pretty much folds over and dies.
I am also going to go on the record saying that Daemons need to be played aggressively across the board or conservatively across the board. Dropping Screamers in to slash attack a bunched up opponent while leaving all the other support elements at the far side of the board is just asking to be wrecked.
Hi, I'm the guy who got beat. As has been noted, Tyranids are (or were) a pretty tough matchup for Daemons. Facing them on the Relic made things doubly worse. So I had a pretty desperate strategy. My plan had been to try to tie the relic, tie the primary, and win with First Blood and Linebreaker. So pretty much everything hung on 7 Plaguebearers and my Herald of Nurgle not giving up Slay the Warlord to Doom or a Flyrant.
I knew I was sending the Screamers to their death, but they were intended to have bought me 2+ turns of tied-up Flyrants. Forgetting Gants are I4 and totally underestimating Nid Firepower shot that plan to pieces. If the Flyrants hadn't broke free, turn 2 I could drop in, occupy the middle of the board, and maybe even have a play for the Relic. If not, I could at least keep Jim off of it. But obviously it didn't go that way. Very well played, Jim. I'm glad we finally got a game in and that you were my last loss of the tournament (whew).
The Screamer/Flamer list may have been a hammer, but it's not like it was inflexible. It could handle elite armies, horde armies, gunlines, heavy vehicles, light vehicles, Flyers-- just about everything out there. But I could never really figure where to aim it when I faced Tyranids. Like I'd mentioned to jy2 a couple days before the event, I really wish I'd had a chance to practice this matchup more. I could've been persuaded to make edits to my list to handle even something as rare as Tyranids, but it didn't seem to be a problem I could solve on paper.
2013/03/07 18:17:35
Subject: 1750 - Jy2's Road to the Bay Area Open GT - Hive Fleet Pandora (Army Pics on p.3, Game #3 on p.5)
calypso2ts wrote: Well played on your part Jy2, when I saw the Daemon list I figured you had this one.
Tyranids are a hard matchup for Daemons in general - I cannot speak for the new codex yet -Players who ran the max Screamers/Flamers are asking to lose to this matchup - and the list makes me die a bit on the inside. The reason being it makes some players feel like it is brutally overpowered by crushing them (mainly Marines) or - in the case of running into a list like this one - pretty much folds over and dies.
I am also going to go on the record saying that Daemons need to be played aggressively across the board or conservatively across the board. Dropping Screamers in to slash attack a bunched up opponent while leaving all the other support elements at the far side of the board is just asking to be wrecked.
Yeah, I agree. With daemons, I think it's better to go all or nothing. Either go all out aggressive or hold everything back and wait for reinforcements.
But what I didn't say in this report was that his pink horrors scattered away from the Comms (they would have probably been out even with a good run move). In order to use the comms, I believe you have to have a unit nearby. Thus, my opponent was forced to DS his flamer near his comms so that he can benefit from it next turn. I believe that had his horrors landed where he had wanted them, he would have played his flamers much more aggressively and probably given me a triple-threat attack along with the screamers. Reaching the comms was all the more important considering I got the Warlord trait that penalized him -1 on his reserves.
Daemons can still beat my tyranids. The key is to probably present more threats than what he did in this game...and then hope that my tervigons don't go crazy. If I were to play daemons in this game, I would have gone ultra-aggressive. That means 3 screamers and 2 flamers in my prefered wave. Slash the gribblies and rain warpfire on them (or the biovores) from the flamers as well.
Glad (but pretty unsurprised) to see Nids smack down old Daemons. They are one of the very few armies Daemons didn't have a good answer for.
I'm also happy we won't have to see the Screamer/Flamer builds anymore. Though they weren't unbeatable, they certainly were the "easy button" of 40k. Good riddance!
Great report as always.
2nd Place 2015 ATC--Team 48
6th Place 2014 ATC--team Ziggy Wardust and the Hammers from Mars
3rd Place 2013 ATC--team Quality Control
7-1 at 2013 Nova Open (winner of bracket 4)
2013/03/07 19:11:21
Subject: 1750 - Jy2's Road to the Bay Area Open GT - Hive Fleet Pandora (Army Pics on p.3, Game #3 on p.5)
But what I didn't say in this report was that his pink horrors scattered away from the Comms (they would have probably been out even with a good run move).
That is a straight up misplay in that case. Since you can DS the Horrors first, then if you miss too badly, drop everything else further back and Turbo Boost the screamers onto the Comms relay...or my preferred solution which is to run a unit of Cultists behind that Aegis with a Sorcerer in base with the comms.
IDK I thought for sure he would have gone or the Biovores and gone up 3-0 turn one due to big guns, not sure I understand wasting expensive screamers on gargoyles (or do these bonus pints only count to BG?) . Your had -1 to his reserve and a comms relay, meaning he should have been able to keep his HQ off the board until turn 4 (maybe he did do this) and DS him conservatively away from the doom and the flayrants, either way it would be close but I think those early 3 points would have really helped, especially being able to deny your BG objective.
Good game though, I think skarbrand is looking better and better for this type of match in the new demons book, considering he can instant death stuff with his MELEE!
edited: Sorry didnt have demon books with me Still liking him more and more though!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/03/07 20:43:13
whigwam wrote: Hi, I'm the guy who got beat. As has been noted, Tyranids are (or were) a pretty tough matchup for Daemons. Facing them on the Relic made things doubly worse. So I had a pretty desperate strategy. My plan had been to try to tie the relic, tie the primary, and win with First Blood and Linebreaker. So pretty much everything hung on 7 Plaguebearers and my Herald of Nurgle not giving up Slay the Warlord to Doom or a Flyrant.
I knew I was sending the Screamers to their death, but they were intended to have bought me 2+ turns of tied-up Flyrants. Forgetting Gants are I4 and totally underestimating Nid Firepower shot that plan to pieces. If the Flyrants hadn't broke free, turn 2 I could drop in, occupy the middle of the board, and maybe even have a play for the Relic. If not, I could at least keep Jim off of it. But obviously it didn't go that way. Very well played, Jim. I'm glad we finally got a game in and that you were my last loss of the tournament (whew).
The Screamer/Flamer list may have been a hammer, but it's not like it was inflexible. It could handle elite armies, horde armies, gunlines, heavy vehicles, light vehicles, Flyers-- just about everything out there. But I could never really figure where to aim it when I faced Tyranids. Like I'd mentioned to jy2 a couple days before the event, I really wish I'd had a chance to practice this matchup more. I could've been persuaded to make edits to my list to handle even something as rare as Tyranids, but it didn't seem to be a problem I could solve on paper.
Yeah, it makes a world of difference if you can get in a practice game against particular matchups, like my practice game between my bugs and daemons. I was probably more prepared to face your army than you were to face mine.
It's also easy to under-estimate the offensive capabilities of tyranids, especially when you don't take into consideration their psychic buffs/de-buffs. That's just how it is with some armies. Until you actually play against them run by a good general, it's hard to gauge their actual synergy.
Anyways, congrats. Despite the 2 early losses, whigwam would come back strong and go on to finish 5-2. I believe he also won Best Daemons? (Liz couldn't win Best Daemons because she won something better. )
JGrand wrote: Glad (but pretty unsurprised) to see Nids smack down old Daemons. They are one of the very few armies Daemons didn't have a good answer for.
I'm also happy we won't have to see the Screamer/Flamer builds anymore. Though they weren't unbeatable, they certainly were the "easy button" of 40k. Good riddance!
Great report as always.
I'm not familiar with the new daemon codex yet as I don't have their new codex yet, but from what I hear, they are probably going to be more balanced than the current Tzeentch power-builds. That's good, because competitive daemons need a little more variety.
But what I didn't say in this report was that his pink horrors scattered away from the Comms (they would have probably been out even with a good run move).
That is a straight up misplay in that case. Since you can DS the Horrors first, then if you miss too badly, drop everything else further back and Turbo Boost the screamers onto the Comms relay...or my preferred solution which is to run a unit of Cultists behind that Aegis with a Sorcerer in base with the comms.
I attribute that to under-estimating the bugs and wanting to get First Blood. My opponent had a gameplan. It just didn't work out the way he intended.
One of these days I'll just go for it, but it's a long voyage from rural Maine 
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
In addition, I cant stand when the odds are not necessarily going against the norm but when they go flat out crazy it kind of takes things away from the game.
. Nothing I did there to make that happen. Just the dice happened to agree with me staying there. 
2500pts 
2000 
1500
