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 Lynata wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:Because Warcraft is a shallow, two-bit ripoff of Warhammer Fantasy?

I was more referring to the "sex sells" fanservice.
Unfortunately, this aspect has gotten a lot stronger over the years. WC3 feral amazons > WoW girly cheerleaders who dropped their xenophobia and magophobia overnight

So is the fact that nearly all of my WoW characters are females make me a sexist bastard?

I though almost all female characters in MMORPGs were played by men?

Another reason why I think those who say men won't buy "female" minis to play with have just got no idea.............

 Mr Morden wrote:
I though almost all female characters in MMORPGs were played by men?

Another reason why I think those who say men won't buy "female" minis to play with have just got no idea.............

MMORPG: Mostly Men Online, Role-Playing Girls.

*nods*

... I kid, though. I know a lot of women, mostly stay-at-home moms with very young children, who are into MMOs as a past-time that they can walk away from when family needs demand.

 Lynata wrote:

Not to mention that at least in the case of GW's miniature as well as FFG's character class, both are intended to portray battlefield Commissars, even if such a hypothetical noncom-commissar ("noncommissar"? ) would exist.

Commissars jobs also include propaganda work IIRC. Propaganda is not carried out greatly on the battlefield.

t

Corporal_Reznov wrote: It can be proven using any of the materials. Its just you and your usual dance of going on and on about GW and how other sources are bad or not good? cause not made by GW directly.

There's quite a lot of material that doesn't even touch the subject with a ten foot pole - which is what presumably led quite a number of dakkanauts in this thread to proclaim the Imperium as sexist as they got the impression from whatever they read.

Mr Morden wrote:Not always - opinion is pretty divided about the changes in the information in the recent Necron and Grey Knights Codex's and often gets a little inflamed.............

True, but on average ... how many people can agree on novel X, and how many people can agree on Codex fluff? There are exceptions to this rule, but in general I think the Codex will be more popular simply because it's read more often compared to some random novel out of the hundreds of books that BL is selling.

Amaya wrote:So is the fact that nearly all of my WoW characters are females make me a sexist bastard?

Nah. Playing a different gender is just like playing a different profession or a different species. You won't be sexist unless you actually believe in a flawed, sexist portrayal of the respective gender.

As far as staring at naked or semi-naked bodies is concerned, if this is something to condemn people for, then I guess we're all sexist. On some level that's probably true, but that is a matter of biology, and not psychology like the stuff that really concerns society.

Funny observation: Lots of men like playing lesbian women. Lots of women like playing gay men. Live and let live.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Commissars jobs also include propaganda work IIRC.

Where did you read that?

Not saying it's wrong, just that GW portrays it differently. Unless we're talking intra-regimental propaganda, I guess.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Codexes are for the most part just recycle of data being printed on new paper.

Okay, that is your opinion and I'll respect it. I could just as well counter it with a Goto novel, though.

All in all, I think more people will agree on Codex fluff simply because more people will have read it. Isn't the novel audience much smaller, owing to that there is a much higher amount of novels, and that they are always completely new whereas a Codex may, as you pointed out yourself, repeat existing fluff again and again?

 Lynata wrote:

Mr Morden wrote:Not always - opinion is pretty divided about the changes in the information in the recent Necron and Grey Knights Codex's and often gets a little inflamed.............

True, but on average ... how many people can agree on novel X, and how many people can agree on Codex fluff? There are exceptions to this rule, but in general I think the Codex will be more popular simply because it's read more often compared to some random novel out of the hundreds of books that BL is selling.

IIRC, the Bl books particularly the HH series are listed on the New York times best seller or something? Also, all the fluff arguments about the HH era and so on that use novels.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Commissars jobs also include propaganda work IIRC.

Where did you read that?

Not saying it's wrong, just that GW portrays it differently. Unless we're talking intra-regimental propaganda, I guess.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
Because Warcraft is a shallow, two-bit ripoff of Warhammer Fantasy?

Did you really have to go there?

Yes. Yes I did.

Lynata wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:The Commissariat has non-combat commissars too: being halfway to an intelligence agency it has plenty of desk jobs and ceremonial officers.

That sounds like some BL "extension"? The original description indeed only knows one type of Commissar - so much so that they train their cadets on the battlefield.
Not to mention that at least in the case of GW's miniature as well as FFG's character class, both are intended to portray battlefield Commissars, even if such a hypothetical noncom-commissar ("noncommissar"? ) would exist.

The Cain series is the primary reference, but the way the Commissariat is mentioned elsewhere supports the idea that it's its own agency, with central organization and the like. Like how the Adeptus Arbites has its own central command and organizational structure detached from its field operations. It's not necessarily a large fraction of the total commissars, but even a small percent is still a rather large number.

There's also Commissariat officers attached to non-combat positions, like the Schola Progenium instructors.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:Because Warcraft is a shallow, two-bit ripoff of Warhammer Fantasy?

I was more referring to the "sex sells" fanservice.
Unfortunately, this aspect has gotten a lot stronger over the years. WC3 feral amazons > WoW girly cheerleaders who dropped their xenophobia and magophobia overnight

I know, it was pretty clear from the context. But everything in Warcraft is just a watered-down version of something from WFB: Warhammer has female elves who charge into battle wearing nothing but the blood of sacrifices, Warcraft has elves who wear bikinis and do table dances.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:IIRC, the Bl books particularly the HH series are listed on the New York times best seller or something? Also, all the fluff arguments about the HH era and so on that use novels.

"Selling a lot" and being consistent is not necessarily related. Don't the HH novels have a Primarch switching his hair colour from one book to another?
And what do you mean with the fluff arguments?

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Their unique position allows them unfettered access to and member of the Imperial Guard or any of its facilities, and they mete out their brutal punishment without doubt, secure in the knowledge that what they do is for the ultimate betterment of the Imperium as a whole.

Deviating interpretations aside, even this description doesn't sound like a desk job to me. This is a character class that people are supposed to play in active combat with a squad of grunts, leading from the front.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Also the book 15 hours.

Didn't read it, what does it say?

Corporal_Reznov wrote:So what about Goto? Is that supposed to be a threat?

More like a bet.
I bet you'll find more people willing to go by the new GK Codex than C.S. Goto's novels.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:So repetition is good then according to you?

In a way, yes! Repetition means consistency over the years.
Don't get me wrong, I also like to read new stuff. But when some stuff is repeated, chances are the new stuff needs to fit in with the old, so that the book is internally consistent.
And compared to Black Library, GW has been remarkably consistent over the years. This is not in any way surprising, however - the more authors and less coordination between them you have, the less overlap you'll see between their books.

I still have an email in my inbox from my editor, asking “Why didn’t you reference X in your novel?”
I also have my reply. It says, quite simply, “Because X sucks, and so does the guy who wrote it.”
That’s show business for you.
- Aaron Dembski-Bowden, author of The First Heretic (and others)

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:The Cain series is the primary reference, but the way the Commissariat is mentioned elsewhere supports the idea that it's its own agency, with central organization and the like. Like how the Adeptus Arbites has its own central command and organizational structure detached from its field operations. It's not necessarily a large fraction of the total commissars, but even a small percent is still a rather large number.
There's also Commissariat officers attached to non-combat positions, like the Schola Progenium instructors.

The Cain novels depict a completely different Schola Progenium (no gender segregation, the instructors aren't tough-as-nails Drill Abbots but corrupted emissaries of various Imperial Adepta, young Sisters and Commissars are trained on-site rather than in their respective organisations) and a different Commissariat training. Going by a White Dwarf article from GW:

"It is the duty of the Commissars in the Imperial Guard to maintain the highest standards of discipline and inspire the troops by their own example. [...] Personnel selected to become Cadet Commissars are drawn from schools run by Missionaries of the Ministorum. [...] The Commissar-General of an Imperial Guard Regiment selects the most promising recruits from those recommended to him by the schools of the Ministorum. After basic Imperial Guard training, these become Cadet Commissars and proceed to special training for their demanding responsibilities as Commissars. [...] The Commissar Training Squad accompanies Imperial Guard forces into battle and takes part in some of the fiercest fighting. [...] "

Generally, I really don't doubt that the Commissariat has some clerks running their paperwork, never having seen a battlefield in their life. But they won't be called Commissars, and won't get to wear fancy hats.

 Lynata wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:IIRC, the Bl books particularly the HH series are listed on the New York times best seller or something? Also, all the fluff arguments about the HH era and so on that use novels.

"Selling a lot" and being consistent is not necessarily related. Don't the HH novels have a Primarch switching his hair colour from one book to another?

What? We were talking about who reads them. What consistency are you talking about? GW has never cared about consistency or do retcons not exist in your GW centric world that you always post about.

Edited by Manchu. Please keep in mind that Rule Number One is Be Polite. Thanks.

Deviating interpretations aside, even this description doesn't sound like a desk job to me. This is a character class that people are supposed to play in active combat with a squad of grunts, leading from the front.

*sigh*

IMPERIAL COMMISSARS

With so many worlds and cultures feeding the armies of the Imperial Guard, it can be a daunting task for commanders
to unite and control the soldiers in their armies. Often feral world savages will be asked to fight alongside refined
noble regiments from powerful hive worlds or penal soldiers expected to serve the very authority which sentenced
them. Divided by language and customs, this can lead to disruption among regiments and more importantly poor
morale within the regiments themselves, as Guardsmen forget why they have been torn from their home worlds and
ferried across the void. The Imperial Commissariat exists to ensure control over the regiments of the Imperial Guard
and remind every Guardsman of his duty both to the Imperium and to the God-Emperor. Practically every company
in the Imperial Guard, regardless of the world from which they hail, will have at least one Commissar attached as an
advisor to its company command group. It is the Commissars’ job to keep the commanders and their men true to the
God-Emperor’s cause and make sure their duty to the Imperium is done. As Commissars exist outside the command
structure at the regimental level, answering instead to the Departmento Munitorum, they have the power to remove
commanders if they are not performing their duty (often violently through the use of a bolt pistol). However, a good
Commissar knows when to use fear and when to use inspiration to motivate men, and alongside the many cruel and
brutal Commissars there are those who lead by example, standing atop trenches in the face of enemy fire to stir their
company to courage and show scorn to their enemies.

A combination morale officer and political operative,
Commissars are tasked with making sure that every Guardsman
does his sworn duty to the God-Emperor and the Imperium.
Commissars are constantly watching, always on the lookout
for weakness or corruption among their charges. They
stalk among the ranks of the soldiery and the officers alike,
conspicuous in their peaked hats and ornate coats. Through
webs of informants and the use of propaganda, they
control the hearts and minds of the Imperial
Guard, moulding both the rank-and-file
Guardsmen and their officers into model
soldiers, free of doubt or mercy for
their enemies. Their unique position
allows them unfettered access to any
member of the Imperial Guard or
any of its facilities, and they mete out
their brutal punishment without doubt,
secure in the knowledge that what they do is for the
ultimate betterment of the Imperium as a whole.

I'm not saying that Commissars don''t have a combat role. But they do have other duties like monitoring officers or observing what will be printed on propaganda leaflets, etc

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Also the book 15 hours.

Didn't read it, what does it say?

It has a Commissar not working the front lines presumably cause he doesn't want to get killed, I'm not sure as he's not a character, who checks out the people who print propaganda leaflets. He's their boss.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:So what about Goto? Is that supposed to be a threat?

and people are willing to go by other novels than C.S goto novels. so what's your point?
Seriously Lynata, why don't you go and become the boss of GW and then declare anything not codexes to be non-canon. That way you can be happy.

In a way, yes! Repetition means consistency over the years.
Don't get me wrong, I also like to read new stuff. But when some stuff is repeated, chances are the new stuff needs to fit in with the old, so that the book is internally consistent.
And compared to Black Library, GW has been remarkably consistent over the years. This is not in any way surprising, however - the more authors and less coordination between them you have, the less overlap you'll see between their books.

Retcons don't exist in your world then? You really have an obsession with consistency.

I still have an email in my inbox from my editor, asking “Why didn’t you reference X in your novel?”
I also have my reply. It says, quite simply, “Because X sucks, and so does the guy who wrote it.”
That’s show business for you.
- Aaron Dembski-Bowden, author of The First Heretic (and others)

And so what?


And done. Anyway, getting off as I have a lot of work to do :-(.

This will be addressed in my upcoming novel: Of Love and Scything Talons.


It will be a riveting tale of forbidden love, between a workaholic Hive Tyrant and an unusually spirited Hormagaunt. Set against the backdrop of the Battle for MacCragge, the turning tides of battle will reflect on their deep seated, repressed urge to elope from the Hive and live as bug and...bug.

The critical point is when the Hive Tyrant is offered wings by the Bio-ship, if he agrees to a transfer to Hive Fleet Gorgon. But this would mean separation from his beloved Hormagaunt, a stubbornly patriotic citizen of Hive Fleet Behemoth. In the end, he accepts the wings and attempts to flee with her. But just as they reach the sector border, they are intercepted by a Grey Knight commander, who unleashes his repressed sexual jealousy against their newfound freedom.

It should be done in about June. Expect a lot of steamy yet PG13 scenes.

Sounds hawt.

 Lynata wrote:
But they won't be called Commissars, and won't get to wear fancy hats.

Well yes, but why are you repeating yourself?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
Anyway, hello Melissia, still playing 40k TT? What are your armies? Just curious.

Only occasionally. I still have most of my models from before, although I have sold some to help pay for college so they're smaller armies. Too lazy to re-calculate points, but I have Sisters Orks, and Guard still.

I hope you didn't sell off any of your Sisters. That is just an evil and vile thing to do.

Tyranidfreek01 wrote:
This will be addressed in my upcoming novel: Of Love and Scything Talons.

"Lictor?"

"Sure did!"

 Evileyes wrote:
What I never liked, was the fact that one in 1000 humans or something similar, are psyker's. And all of them, every single damn one, is male. Hell of a coincidence that.

I mean, I would absolutely adore, a special character for any imperial army whatsoever, who was a female psyker of such power, that they ignored their usual recruiment and rigorous bio-engineering traditions, in favour of harnessing the ability of said psyker.

But apparently, being able to shoot lightning from your hands on a whim, is something you need to be a tank of a man to do. Or, be an eldar, which in my mind, is just a cop-out. You would think the imperium would notice the eldar has a number of incredibly powerfull female psykers and think "Maybe we shouldn't kill every female psyker for having ladyparts.

Then again, I found a way round being a female gamer, with no cool character's (Without being an eldar in spandexarmour, or space-nun's in, again, spandex plate that is), and that was in playing an androginous/genderless race, in daemon's. Nurgle daemon's don't really have a gender, even if they were once men, such as in the case of plaguebearers, khorne stuff is just killy incarnate, gender doesn't come into it, tzeentch is made up of amorphous blob's of warpstuff, so again, genderless, and slaanesh stuff, is a different gender and appearance, depending on who is viewing them.

On a side note, I always wondered if sister's of battle fighting daemonettes, saw something along the lines of these guy's.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2730082a_99120201016_WoCHellstriders01_873x627.jpg

That is an epic idea. A special character female psyker. I'm sure with the right artist they could make an amazing model!

Or a terrible, mannish looking one.

BlaxicanX wrote:
Or a terrible, mannish looking one.

Putting aside the almost crippling irony of this statement given the title and context of the thread, it's interesting to note that people with androgynous appearance are typically rated as being more attractive and more likeable in studies on the subject, particularly in studies where the participants are aware that their answers will be anonymised and so do not feel constrained to adhere to traditional notions of gender and sexuality. So, if a less "bewb-corset" focused female Commissar were to be released, it looking a little "mannish" might not be a bad thing. EDIT: Or a psyker, for that matter - I should pay more attention

I'm not referring to androgonyous looking people.

I'm referring to a sculpt of a woman who's face resembles a man's and whose body type resembles a man's, because GW sculps tend to look like crap.

Looking like a man =\= androgynous. An androgynous person, by definition, can not look like a man.

lol @ jumping to conclusions and assuming I was referring to bust size/sexiness, though.

BlaxicanX wrote:
I'm not referring to androgonyous looking people.

I'm referring to a sculpt of a woman who's face resembles a man's and whose body type resembles a man's, because GW sculps tend to look like crap.

Looking like a man =\= androgynous. An androgynous person, by definition, can not look like a man.

lol @ jumping to conclusions and assuming I was referring to bust size/sexiness, though.

Yes, silly me, for failing to interpret your six word response in a manner other than the obvious given the subject of the thread. Also, "mannish" is typically used to refer to women who look like men, or women who lack particularly feminine characteristics, the latter of which definitions would include androgynous features.

Actually I'd like to see a female Imperial psyker as well, or at least a female farseer model.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Also, "mannish" is typically used to refer to women who look like men, or women who lack particularly feminine characteristics, the latter of which definitions would include androgynous features.

The people who use the latter definition are using the word wrong.

Have the common decency to refrain from assuming others don't know what they are talking about.

 Melissia wrote:
Actually I'd like to see a female Imperial psyker as well, or at least a female farseer model.

Wait.

The Farseer model isn't female?!

Guess I never looked closely at it.

Nope, the farseer model is genderless tending towards male. For the most part they all are, although I (and some other friends) generally agree that the one holding a sword point down and a shuriken pistol in the other hand is female (this one). Just something about the swish of the robes around the hips, I guess?

Also thirding the vote for a female Imperial Psyker model. Maybe something like;Alice Boone from the Ragged Edges Dark Heresy comic?

Eldar are a slender race, so minis like that could be said to be of either gender... but given the preponderance of male minis in the line, eh, not sure it quite makes the grade.

The shoulders on that model are really too wide for my taste.

I tend to think of Eldar as feminine, so I suppose I assume a model that could go either way would be female. The actual model does seem a tad broad for a woman though.

Heh... what a choice of words... but, I agree. The Farseer in the linked image appears too wide in the shoulders to be what I would think of as an Eldar female. I'd have to side-by-side with a Banshee or Harlequin to really judge. Still, I've always pictured Eldar females as willowy.

I've always pictured eldar in general as lithe, but the males still tend to have broader shoulders while the females have more slender shoulders.

So maybe something more along the lines of this one?

Without the breasts plate, yes.