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That guy isn't a casual gamer, OP.

He's an [bad word that Dakka won't let me post, rhymes with esshole]

Yeah he is more -----> "That Guy".

I played that guy several times. It was my very 1st game(5th ed) and a league game at the store. I still don't know if he was right. The Mawlocs blast template can only hit the 1st level and nothing on the 2nd -- the same for his melee attacks. He was moving everything about 8 inches and when I called him on it he said that almost that exact thing you were told, "I am your elder both in real life and the game and it goes how I say it goes. You will respect me". Also in placement I infiltrated a unit of genestealers and decided to move them somewhere else and he said it was like chess once you placed a unit it was down even tho I hadn't placed anything else yet. At the end of the game we counted kill points and what do you know my very 1st game I had tied a veteran. When I went to get the league sheet a guy watching the game pulled me on the side and said recount you have 8 kill points of his units he only has 7 of yours. He lied about his total losses - what do you know it had never even dawned on me that someone would lie about their game. A real super more mosest unfunerest of guys (he is maybe a Nurglite even tho I saw no diseases and smelled no rot). I have a special Grey Knight list I keep that is tailored to use vs his sisters - (it took 9 months, 6th ed., and the next league before this guy played me again but it was worth it.). Tabled is all I can say. Go go Fortress of Redemption, Coteaz, Inquistor, 16 Jokearos, and 6 plasma cannon Servitors. He even complained at the start he couldn't win especially since both the Inq. and Coteaz had rolled ignores cover.

 Mythra wrote:

The Mawlocs blast template can only hit the 1st level and nothing on the 2nd -- the same for his melee attacks.

Well I'm pretty sure you can target a level above for CC but is it a Blast or a Template? Templates are limited, Blasts target a specific level and Barrage target the top... in fact pretty sure it's been that way for awhile. People pulling the age card should at least make sure they're remotely accurate

 Mythra wrote:
Also in placement I infiltrated a unit of genestealers and decided to move them somewhere else and he said it was like chess once you placed a unit it was down even tho I hadn't placed anything else yet.

If you want to play Chess then go play Chess. WH40K is not Chess. I mean it's hard to move a unit and then take the move back and remeasure a new one sometimes but I would let you move infiltrated units around the board till your arm fell off as long as the first turn hadn't actually started. Heck a few times I might even walk away to grab something while you place because it certainly doesn't matter.

The lying part... well sounded like he was full of them anyway. I guess winning is fun but I really don't get how lying to win is actually still a fun game. Some people certainly don't seem to play games for fun though. I had a guy in another game tell me he wanted to use my dice to roll something and that the rules said I couldn't deny him. You know, because you're not being a douche enough by asking nicely, but he was never nice if he wasn't winning...and then he wasn't really "nice" he was bouncing off the walls, making you want to pack up just to get out of there, happy

 Jimsolo wrote:
I understand that I love him unconditionally, but that's no reason anyone else should have to.)

Amen to that. Exalted right there. The world would be a much better place if people took this attitude with their offspring. Instead of just laughing, shrugging and saying "kids will be kids" when your child is running around unsupervised in a restaurant, or throwing a tantrum in a store, or messing with my models.

Just wanted to agree with a few things said here:

1 This guy ain't a "casual gamer". Wouldn't be a bad idea to change the topic as it's not exactly accurate and may be slightly inflamatory. nearly 20 years since my first 40k purchase, I'm still a "casual gamer", and you'd be hard pressed to find someone more pleasant and cordial to play with, even if I have to ask you to help me with the rules occasionally.

This guys a strait-up TFG. If he had 5 more years under his belt, I'd call him a Grongonard, but he's not experienced enough yet.

2) The guys kids aren't necessarily the problem, it's the fact that they have a TFG for a father who hasn't drilled the "no touchey" rule into their head yet.

3) Your solution. Easy. Either don't play with him, or make it clear before the game that you're not going to put up with his shenanigans.

4)As for his kids. Ask him to take handle his kids and if he can't get management to send him and his kids away. Some parents have no choice but to bring the kids along, but that doen''t give them the right to allow their children to be unsupervised and unruly.

Whatever you do, sorry you had a douchebag ruin your gaming evening. Better luck next time.

i'd just refuse to play against him.

Its one thing to just not know the rules that well, its another to insist your right without proof or quotes. Any funky rule thats not super straight forward i try to remember the exact wording in the book (not easy mind you, cuz theres so many) so i can quote the damn thing.

For an assaulty army the whole extra inch for measuring front to back is a big deal. Theres what 2 pages with pictures in the BRB talking about how to do it correctly? Yea this guy needs to reread his rules he knows so well.
15 years means nothing. Each edition the game is basically completely reworked. All it means is youve been collecting for awhile.

Sorry off topic as hell but dammit vineheart what is that avatar from? iv been trying to figure it out quietly for like a month.

Either just dont care, let him play with his handicap, OR use the "in sixth edition we play it like this,"-line OR tell him you dont want to play next time he offers.

The hobby is full of weird people. The wargaming crowd is more full of manic compulsives than pen and paper roleplaying is... I let shyte slide all the time, just because you meet those types of guys so often I cant let it ruin my day.

At our game store we have TFG who is just plain rude and critiques everything.Tactics, paint jobs, and will show up to rules lawyer you in the middle of a game he's not involved in. It is very annoying.

Desubot wrote:Sorry off topic as hell but dammit vineheart what is that avatar from? iv been trying to figure it out quietly for like a month.

Rofl second person to do that. Good avatar i guess
Its Krystal from Starfox, its just some random eye-grabbin gif i found i think it was on Deviantart some eons ago.
EDIT: Actually third, my friend irl found me on these forums since i use this name on multiple platforms (ok every platform) and asked me wtf the dancing chick was lol

ShatteredBlade wrote:At our game store we have TFG who is just plain rude and critiques everything.Tactics, paint jobs, and will show up to rules lawyer you in the middle of a game he's not involved in. It is very annoying.

Sometimes those rule-interveners are needed, ive had a couple times when both of us got something horribly wrong but the bystander was like "WHOA WHOA WHOA" lol. But when he does that for every single rule, then it gets annoying. I usually just let him go on because im not mr. perfect on rules. Neither is he but hes still better than i am lol.

DeviantArt huh? Wouldn't happen to have an FA account vine?

Though Desubot you got a cool avy and sig too.

But on topic yeah I couldn't play with TFG it'd drive me nuts. I don't mine rules nazis, but don't go kicking peoples paintjobs unless they show up with no paint at all.

And some people don't play to outright win. Some of my favorite games are games I've lost, it's not tactics that matter it's story. Much more fun to play for fun then to play to win. Tactics are a guidepost for the most part.

Actually no i dont, even though i am a furry (yea, hate all you want, dont care im sure you have equally weird interests you dont reveal) surprisingly.

Lol man i derailed this thread with my avy didnt i?

On topic: Another type of player that irritates me is one that adds rules that "make sense" to the game. Unless Shrouded or Stealth is applied, nothing in the rule book says cover is additive for instance. Yet occationally one of the local players will try to pull the 2+ cover because youre shooting over an aegis, around a corner, and by a tree. Yes, it makes sense since i can barely see you, but this game doesnt make sense in a LOT of ways so we cant start accepting new rules that "make sense"

No worries I'm open about being a fur, to me it's no big deal but I like meeting my fellows out there.

Anyways yeah I'll nod my head when someone goes on about 'makes sense' logic, then just point to the rulebook and move on. The other thing that annoys me is when there is a rules conflict, and yog just go ahead let the ye olde dice decide who is right, they still complain throughout the whole game.

Yeah ive always dropped any argument solved by high or low dice, usually everyone in the group does but once in awhile fml seriously fml.
Theres just too many things that technically should happen by "makes sense" to even allow one. Take Ramshackle for instance - why doesnt it cause Rams or Tankshocks, friend or foe? It just doesnt, no reason lol. Quite frankly i think if the rules made sense 100% of the time the game would be stale and gimicky.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah ive always dropped any argument solved by high or low dice, usually everyone in the group does but once in awhile fml seriously fml.
Theres just too many things that technically should happen by "makes sense" to even allow one. Take Ramshackle for instance - why doesnt it cause Rams or Tankshocks, friend or foe? It just doesnt, no reason lol. Quite frankly i think if the rules made sense 100% of the time the game would be stale and gimicky.

what about flamers not being able to shoot through your own guys in the shooting phase, but in the assault phase for overwatch thats perfectly fine, even if the flamer itself was out of range?

I think every verhicle that loses all its hull points should ramshackle, would make the game alot more fun.

 ShatteredBlade wrote:
At our game store we have TFG who is just plain rude and critiques everything.Tactics, paint jobs, and will show up to rules lawyer you in the middle of a game he's not involved in. It is very annoying.

commenting upon paint jobs is never a good idea- you might get a response like ' off, can you do better yourself...' etc. When someone commented upon my Heldrake paint job as being 'nice' i was taken aback in a nice way...

Tactical commentary can be of assistance when you have a 'new' player who needs a little bit of direction to what they are doing, otherwise let people get on with it and have a laugh/troll people when they make silly errors (yes a lot of trolling happens at my club, its an art you know ). Rules lawers are highly useful, at my club we all know the rules pretty much inside out when an issue comes up, though sometimes in games you simply forget about things. And we usually ask when we need some help

Otherwise cheaters are not tolerated, and once there was a long term campaign against a player who was known to cheat, he got to face our best players at regular intervals, he eventually got the message

and due to a few developments we have been having discussions about our policy about new players who turn up (since my club has joined the gcn we can advertise in GW ... ). I raised the question 'you do realise we might get a few noobs/ cheaters so what is our policy to playing these people' mostly referring to the fact that we who help to run the 40k side, are a 'competitve' bunch who also like to have fun. The discussion ended with the conclusion- we have no problem with noob bashing, as long as they show themselves to be decent people etc and don't cheat (troll alert )

just my humble view

 ShatteredBlade wrote:
At our game store we have TFG who...
...will show up to rules lawyer you in the middle of a game he's not involved in. It is very annoying.

I hear this alot on dakka regarding folks offering unsolicited advice, rulings, general unpleasantness, etc, and -trying not to be rude here- why do people have such a hard time saying "My friend, step back this is not your game." or "I'm sorry, that kind of behavior is not acceptable.?

Is it that folks don't want to hurt someone's feelings, or mess with the vibe, or sound like their parent or what? Cause those are pretty weak reasons for allowing that kind of behavior to continue. Every time folks don't step up and prune this kind of behavior in the small situations, it reinforces that it's ok to behave as such.

I'm not advocating return-rudeness, or telling anybody off, but I moderate a small club e-group and nipping that sort of unpleasantness in the bud is KEY to a pleasant environment for all.

I recently played a guy using an outdated Imperial Armor IG list. We played the scouring on the long deployment. Every one of his tanks had this little twenty point upgrade that allowed them to fire twice if they didn't move, so he said. Ten templates turned into twenty, and it was all downhill from there. Not to mention he didn't bring said Imperial Armor book with him. Or that his tanks weren't WYSIWYG. He didn't understand indirect fire in the slightest, and the values of cover that was decided upon at the beginning of the game were suddenly disputable. We spent the game in and out of the rulebook, and it was simply miserable. By the end of his first turn, I had no interest in continuing. By turn five I almost won on objectives, as I had one solid objective, slay the warlord, and line breaker. Then four Leman Russes and two basilisks fired on my last unit, two shots apiece.

The problem I had was not wanting to just quit in the middle of the game. I won't play him again for sure, but how do you get out of that situation while its in progress without being rude?

Its not cool for anyone to cheat or be TFG but its also not cool to be a whiny baby. If he is moving his models incorrectly and you don't want to call him out, F it, move yours the same way. If hes the only one your able to play you might as well try to have some fun. Just make sure you give him a hard time about everything, mock his rules knowledge or threaten to look up everything he tries to do to make sure its legal but in a fun way. If he makes a mistake you could say something like " I guess you didn't learn a whole lot in the 15 years you've been playing" but say it with a smile and make sure he knows your joking...mostly. If you can manage to get over yourself you can find a way to have fun in any situation you just have to learn to make the best of it.

 ghastli wrote:
I recently played a guy using an outdated Imperial Armor IG list. We played the scouring on the long deployment. Every one of his tanks had this little twenty point upgrade that allowed them to fire twice if they didn't move, so he said. Ten templates turned into twenty, and it was all downhill from there. Not to mention he didn't bring said Imperial Armor book with him. Or that his tanks weren't WYSIWYG. He didn't understand indirect fire in the slightest, and the values of cover that was decided upon at the beginning of the game were suddenly disputable. We spent the game in and out of the rulebook, and it was simply miserable. By the end of his first turn, I had no interest in continuing. By turn five I almost won on objectives, as I had one solid objective, slay the warlord, and line breaker. Then four Leman Russes and two basilisks fired on my last unit, two shots apiece.

The problem I had was not wanting to just quit in the middle of the game. I won't play him again for sure, but how do you get out of that situation while its in progress without being rude?

It's a tough one. It's hard to leave a game unfinished without feeling like the bad guy. You kind of have to do your homework ahead of time. As in can I see your army list, rulebooks and codex before we start? If you can't see those from the beginning then it might be best not to take the game.

If you're stuck in a game with a TFG, it's just up to balance whether it's worth it to risk a bit of rudeness or waste and afternoon. If he's clearly cheating, or is naming rules he doesn't can't show you in a book, then I think you're in the clear to leave now.

Maybe you can phrase it as "surrendering to his excellent generalship" in the hopes that the compliment will make your escape easier?

Or maybe it's simply best to honestly say, "I'm sorry, but I'm not enjoying this and I don't feel I can effectively play against someone who doesn't have the necessary rulebooks. Have a nice day."

 ghastli wrote:
I recently played a guy using an outdated Imperial Armor IG list. We played the scouring on the long deployment. Every one of his tanks had this little twenty point upgrade that allowed them to fire twice if they didn't move, so he said. Ten templates turned into twenty, and it was all downhill from there. Not to mention he didn't bring said Imperial Armor book with him. Or that his tanks weren't WYSIWYG. He didn't understand indirect fire in the slightest, and the values of cover that was decided upon at the beginning of the game were suddenly disputable. We spent the game in and out of the rulebook, and it was simply miserable. By the end of his first turn, I had no interest in continuing. By turn five I almost won on objectives, as I had one solid objective, slay the warlord, and line breaker. Then four Leman Russes and two basilisks fired on my last unit, two shots apiece.

The problem I had was not wanting to just quit in the middle of the game. I won't play him again for sure, but how do you get out of that situation while its in progress without being rude?

If you claim some rediculous rule like that and dont bring the book proving its legal, i wouldnt allow it. Something minor like RPJ or something, big whoop its an inch...firing piplates TWICE? thats a big thing, they have enough shots as it is but firing twice just because he didnt move? yea, that wouldnt fly withme unless you put the rules under my nose to read. Dice roll wouldnt solve that either because thats literally game right there.
If he didnt back down on the rule or provide said rule for me to read, i'd just say "OK" and grab my models and leave. I have no issue being a dick to TFG type people.
Same goes for "It's in the FAQ" if you dont have the FAQ and youre playing a race i dont read the FAQ often on, im not going to believe it if its a HUGE impact on the game. Minors i'll accept.
EDIT: Or have a phone that can bring it up, since as of right now mine cant (damn korean phones)

I call out cheats in front of my group. We had an ork player just shout out how many shots he had without saying what weapons. We caught that was trying to give all his slugga boyz Big Shootas. he Only had a 15 boy mob. But kept arguing with me(also playing orks.) So I brought it to the attention of the other friends in my FLGS. he was flatly told if he wants to play follow rules and argue with a rulebook, or not play.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I call out cheats in front of my group. We had an ork player just shout out how many shots he had without saying what weapons. We caught that was trying to give all his slugga boyz Big Shootas. he Only had a 15 boy mob. But kept arguing with me(also playing orks.) So I brought it to the attention of the other friends in my FLGS. he was flatly told if he wants to play follow rules and argue with a rulebook, or not play.

 ghastli wrote:
I recently played a guy using an outdated Imperial Armor IG list. We played the scouring on the long deployment. Every one of his tanks had this little twenty point upgrade that allowed them to fire twice if they didn't move, so he said. Ten templates turned into twenty, and it was all downhill from there. Not to mention he didn't bring said Imperial Armor book with him. Or that his tanks weren't WYSIWYG. He didn't understand indirect fire in the slightest, and the values of cover that was decided upon at the beginning of the game were suddenly disputable. We spent the game in and out of the rulebook, and it was simply miserable. By the end of his first turn, I had no interest in continuing. By turn five I almost won on objectives, as I had one solid objective, slay the warlord, and line breaker. Then four Leman Russes and two basilisks fired on my last unit, two shots apiece.

The problem I had was not wanting to just quit in the middle of the game. I won't play him again for sure, but how do you get out of that situation while its in progress without being rude?

Did you play that dude on vassal?

Anyway, he cheated, in a big way.

Only leman Russ could take that upgrade, it only applied to Ord weapons and could not fire anything else, the reason I.know this is because this is all familiar to me.
/
This dude had 3 executioners ( the 3 plasma cannon ones) each had plasma cannon sponsons, he fired 15 plasma cannon shots for the unit and then claimed ( due to the armoured co upgrade) that they shoot twice, 30 plasma cannon shots eat pretty much anything.

Suffice to say I checked after the game and was very...irked

Yup, perfect example of "Show me the rule or no youre not doing that" like i was talking about.
30 Plasma cannons? Thats rediculous....wtf could face that amount of painful fire every turn without the opponent rolling 1s like theres no tomorrow?

I had someone tell me I was wrong that you resolve overwatch before you move models in to combat. This is with the rulebook in my hand at the right page. I hold it up an his response is " your reading it wrong" was like what? I didn't even know how to respawned to that.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
firing piplates TWICE? thats a big thing, they have enough shots as it is but firing twice just because he didnt move? yea, that wouldnt fly withme unless you put the rules under my nose to read. Dice roll wouldnt solve that either because thats literally game right there.

The rule exists (well, existed). For 20 points you could upgrade any tank in an armored battlegroup army to allow you to fire an ordnance weapon at the cost of not being able to move or fire any of your other weapons that turn.

Of course the rule was first created back in 4th edition and, because it was intended to represent special elite tank crews, was probably not expected to be a common event. Unfortunately it was way better than any other ace crew upgrade, and people were happy to throw away fluff and spam it as much as possible. Nobody at all was surprised when FW finally got around to updating the list and it was removed entirely.

That rule sounds much more broken than an extra 2 inches on ghazkull a turn.

Why are you asking for assistance, simply explain and prove why a rule works the way it does, and explain why you are not going to play him again.

Oh man some one posted something really good for this it was like 4 or 5 months ago

To really dick with him make a chaos army i think its slaanesh, i could be wrong but they have a unit that lets YOU move the other players model

so what you do is get some cheetos start eating them b4 the game and get all that nice cheese powder on your fingers maybe lick them a little to get some moister on them.

Use the ability to control the other players unit and find his best painted model and move it with your cheese cover hands, problem solved he will never want to play with you again

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Oh man some one posted something really good for this it was like 4 or 5 months ago

To really dick with him make a chaos army i think its slaanesh, i could be wrong but they have a unit that lets YOU move the other players model

so what you do is get some cheetos start eating them b4 the game and get all that nice cheese powder on your fingers maybe lick them a little to get some moister on them.

Use the ability to control the other players unit and find his best painted model and move it with your cheese cover hands, problem solved he will never want to play with you again

Or instead of being TFG yourself you could just say "you cheat, I'm not playing with you".