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Recently, at a monthly club meet up, a few guys who didn't show up last time I was there. They were mostly nice people, but I had some trouble with one guy. Here's what happened, and I want some advice to reduce the annoyance. There is another game shop that they dont go to fortunately.

First off, he decided to bring his 6 and 9 year old sons along , who decided that their dad's orks could use a few transformer allies. It was sort of cute, until he assualted my dire avengers with shockwave and optimus They also started playing with my extra stuff, thank god I stopped them before they went farther than a drone stand.

Second was his codescending attitude and his "complete knowledge" of the game. Everytime I said that what he was doing was wrong, such as measuring from the front of the model and the back of the base touching the 6 inch mark for moving, he'd say, "hey, how loonnggg have you been playing this game? Yea, I've been playing for 15 years" It isn't excuseable from the local opinion either, his excuse was to make the game shorter, yeah, it does, cause your ghazkull can move an extra 4 inches and get in assualt on a 7 rather than an 11! Everybody else was measuring accurately and still having a good time.

I know that sounds like a minor rule breakage, especially with orks, but here are some more serious ones

He insisted that my farseer damaged himself because he had runes(both) and I rolled a 1 5 and 6. This when I aked a guy to look at the FaQ, he got a worried expression on his face and said "Yea, I'll give it to you"(in a frankly rude manner of tone)

He also tried to get out of dominate by saying the orks are fearless, and after I explained it to him, he had to have 1 other guy explain it to him and he had to look at it himself AFTER the other guy sayed I was correct.

Not knowing the rules is one thing, but claiming you know all of them for armies you dont play and p. powers you don't use and then being belittling and rude is another.
Also, there is the problem of the children.

The way to deal with it is to not play against him again.

Life's to short to play people who aren't fun

 insaniak wrote:


Life's to short to play people who aren't fun

This man knows what he is talking about.

 insaniak wrote:
The way to deal with it is to not play against him again.

Life's to short to play people who aren't fun

Yes, but the other guys who only play there are fun too, and If they have already decided to play specific people, I may have to play him again. So I want to know what to do. " O, I see your ork blob that was 12 to 20 inches to my fire warriors move from 6 to 8. I guess I will just move back from 6 to 12 18 to 14"

Also, another thing we did was remove troops from the back, even after we called him on it once.

That's not a casual gamer.

The first time he does something, correct him and assume it's a mistake.

The next time he does it, he's cheating.

Personally, I wouldn't play him again if that's his attitude. Number of years playing a game is no excuse for bad behavior.

FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote:
Yes, but the other guys who only play there are fun too, and If they have already decided to play specific people, I may have to play him again.

Unless you're in a tournament, or a league with assigned games, you never have to play someone.



If you tried explaining what he was doing wrong with no result, you're only real options are to put up with it and play him anyway, or not play him. If enough people refuse to play against him and tell him why, then maybe he'll change his ways. And if he doesn't, well, you're still not playing games that aren't fun for you.

No-one can make you play anyone. If he's the only opponent left, then just say you're not interested. If he asks why you could politely point out that you just didn't enjoy the last game.

 insaniak wrote:
The way to deal with it is to not play against him again.

Life's to short to play people who aren't fun

Yes this is the way to deal with it.

When I read the title, I thought it was going to be a WAAC player bashing people who aren't WAAC. Thank the Emprah it isn't.

Honestly, just don't play him again. You can't really do anything about his kids, they don't know any better (unless their dad has them learn it...), but he should think twice about bringing them again without educating them on things. Also, I love the whole "Oh well I have been playing much longer than you" excuse. That doesn't work, editions and codices change ya know. 5th to 6th alone brought quite a few major changes, but if the last edition the guy played was 3rd or so then he is gonna have issues. We had a guy at my FLGS brag about knowing so much of the game since he had been playing for 16 years, but what he didn't tell us was that he was a few editions behind the curve....

If you get everyone who saw this/has had issues not play him, he will eventually run out of opponents. This will either do one of two things.

1) He will leave the club
2) He will change his ways

Either way it's a win-win.

If you have to play him again, his "I've been playing for 16 years!" line is actually your "in", because your response is "Yeah, and here in 6th Ed, you're doing it wrong" and then you show him on the page how it's done. I'd also bring the appropriate FAQs and such, either on laptop or printed or w/e, just so he can realize that he's a bit out of the loop...

... though his method of measurement has never been kosher, to my knowledge, and I've been playing longer than he has. =p

I'm one of those guys who brings my 7-year-old to the shop, but only when I know it's temporary (waiting for my wife to come pick him up or something) and I always bring something for him to do and set him up on a chair nearby. He's pretty content to just watch, and even at 7 gets basic concepts like not blobbing your guys together so they're less vulnerable to blasts.

So, I can forgive a little bit when it comes to kids, but there's a point where I'm probably harsher on parents than non-parents are because I know how it is (or know as well as I can).

If you're not having fun playing with him, then don't play with him.

If you have fun with him, but he constantly cheats, you have a few options: 1) Point it out to him with page references and get upset when he repeats himself 2) Point it out to him, and if he continues to do it, say something along the lines of, "Okay... if you're going to play that way, I'm going to play that way. Just know that others might not be so okay with it."

Afterall, we're commanding plastic minis across plywood, foam, and felt. The fluff is silly, at best. It's pretend, with rules... it's supposed to be fun.

As for the "I've been playing forever, I know all the rules," argument... I've been playing D&D since 1st Ed, and occasionally I'll remember an older rule instead of the current one. But I'll admit where I'm wrong and bow to someone who knows better.

Well if it is supposed to be casual fun then just measure and play the way he does whats he going to say? your doing it wrong?

FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote: I may have to play him again.

No you don't. You don't HAVE to play a game with anyone you don't want to.

If the situation comes up again, just politely tell him that you won't play a game that's not played by the rules. It needn't be emotional. It needn't be complicated.

That and take a few chill pills yourself. We're talking about a dice game with toy soldiers. From the sheer amount of orkmoticons you're using, it really looks like you're taking 40k to seriously.

Even if you weren't, the better reaction is pity, not anger.

I will never understand people who bring kids younger then 11, and even worse have them play half their game for them.
It frustrates me to no end. Especially when its is pretty easy to teach the not to touch. One time a kid reached for my models, the father stopped him, and you know what he did? He stopped trying to touch them.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will never understand people who bring kids younger then 11, and even worse have them play half their game for them.
It frustrates me to no end. Especially when its is pretty easy to teach the not to touch. One time a kid reached for my models, the father stopped him, and you know what he did? He stopped trying to touch them.

Your only option is to beat him with a dread-sock (the old Chaos metal ones) until he accepts the error of his ways.

Matney X wrote:
I'm one of those guys who brings my 7-year-old to the shop, but only when I know it's temporary (waiting for my wife to come pick him up or something) and I always bring something for him to do and set him up on a chair nearby. He's pretty content to just watch, and even at 7 gets basic concepts like not blobbing your guys together so they're less vulnerable to blasts.

Future Sneaky gamer hear

Based simply on the attitude I would never even think about playing another game with them. Additionally the "I played for x years" would have prompted me to start packing my models. Arrogance like that just blows my mind.

Thats before the kids even come into the scope...

First, change that title, because nothing you said implies he's a "casual" gamer. Using that in your title makes you sound elitist and will make people think you're just some fat guy sperginging out on the internet (that picture of the guy screaming "DONT TOUCH ME YOU FILTHY CASUAL" comes to mind) Removing it will keep people from coming in here with the wrong impression.

What you ran into was a TFG, which has nothing to do with "casual" or "hardcore" gamers. You either

A. Confront him, prove he's wrong, and he sees his error of his ways, or

b. Dont play him again. Seriously. Yes, there will be days you dont get games in, just paint or spectate another guy's game. If TFG gets upset. put on your big boy pants and say "you are not an enjoyable opponent to play against, sorry. I'd prefer to play against someone else." Be polite, but firm. If nobody will play with him. He'll get the message and either change or leave, so its a win win either way.

You encountered TFG. Fortunately you are a private club, so you can simply tell him he is no longer welcome and the problem will be solved.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
First, change that title, because nothing you said implies he's a "casual" gamer. Using that in your title makes you sound elitist and will make people think you're just some fat guy sperginging out on the internet (that picture of the guy screaming "DONT TOUCH ME YOU FILTHY CASUAL" comes to mind) Removing it will keep people from coming in here with the wrong impression.

Well in OP's defense, what is worse than a CASUAL GAMER *vomit*

Well I guess"have fun" is one of the first rules. If you want to measure bases completely wrong per the BRB I guess you technically can, but you don't just do it and not say anything to the other guy.

Overall the guy kind of sounds like a jerk. Having played a game 16 years ago has nothing to do with anything when rules and armies change...and you're playing it wrong. If you claim experience it helps to actually be right.

And having the kid play with other peoples models is just plain rude but playing on the table to? No thanks. Nothing against kids having fun but I would find it very hard to take super humans and aliens fighting it out amongst dark gods seriously with transformers on the table. Yeah, I said it.

As others have said, he's not a 'casual' gamer, he's a douche. He obviously doesn't know how to behave in public, hence his children. Assuming his experience is accurate, it's unlikly he'll change. He's probably gone around to various shops/sites until people get fed up with letting him steamroll them.

This is a game, and a hobby. It's supposed to be fun, not an opportunity to belittle other people to caress your own self esteem issues. It's tough sometimes to stand up to someone and outright refuse to play them publicly even when they deserve it, but I imagine with this guy, that's the only route. I tend to be easy going and get along well with most anybody, but I wouldn't have finished the game with this guy.

We spend a lot of time and effort modeling, learning the game, and all that. He obviously doesn't care about it, and it's frankly insulting. Don't let him ruin your favorite shop.

The " " implies that he is not a casual gamer. Anyway, thanks for the advice. So this is my general battle plan.

A) Play another game. Call him on everything he does wrong, If he improves, off the watch list. Ask him before the game to try to keep the kids off the table in a polite manner. If this works, or he fulfills at least one of the 2 conditions, he is just watched more carefully. Its more enjoyable than annoying at this point, but if I let this continue, I see deterioration.

B) Casually just staying away, If he asks just say I'm enjoying watching another match. Just wait till someone is done and take the game before them. Keep my younger brother(11, 2 weeks from 12) away from him. He seems to making him a role model when it comes to this game, and he doesn't realize how he cheats(he's a smart kid, just hasn't studied the rules very much) because, before my first game against him, I asked if he could teach my brother while he played.

I take the game seriously, but I don't put a lot emotionally into it. I come from flames of war, the game were sometimes if you ask to measure first, move rest, you are met with an evil glare.Or at least in my experience.

I just woudn't play him if he refuses to use the current rules and continues to be confrontational about it.

On a side note I dont have a problem with parents brinign there kids if they behave. Some of the people in my club have kids and even let them roll the dice for them so they aren't bored. Plus it peeks their interested in what mommy or daddy is doing and opens the door for them to do things together. I'm a parent but I dont bring my child becuase I can't trust her to behave in that enviroment. She's very active and constantly moving. I wouldn't be able to do anything but keep an eye on her, I won't begrudge other parents from including there kids though.

FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote:


I take the game seriously, but I don't put a lot emotionally into it. I come from flames of war, the game were sometimes if you ask to measure first, move rest, you are met with an evil glare.Or at least in my experience.

Yeah, I'm going to once again advise you spend some time in front of a mirror. Hate to say it, but you're kind of coming across as nitpicky, whiny, overbearing, and condescending.

A conflict is something that happens between two people, and it's not always just one party that's to blame...

As for kids in stores, yeah, it's dumb to bring something that is genetically predestined to grab things into a place where it's full of things to grab. Assuming that kids can be told not to do something and that they'll always actually not do it... well... those people haven't had kids yet.

Of course, at some point it does make sense to let the tagalongs tag along. I guess it's a judgement call on the part of the parents.

I can't get mad about someone bringing children to play space barbies, even though I know it is really serious business.

The cheating is an issue, though. Refuse to play people that act like dicks. They go away eventually.

He doesn't sound like casual gamer, and if he is, it certainly isn't the problem. The issue is he's TFG and a cheater to boot. As others have said, there is no one and nothing forcing you to play this individual again. Simply tell him that you don't want to play against him unless he wants to play using that actual rules.

That being said, if someone refuses to corral their crotch-droppings, then it can ruin your good time regardless of whether or not you choose to play him. I'd recommend asking (gently!) the local community what the feelings are about children at the game. It may be that someone needs to talk to him about the behavior of his spawn, especially if they're endangering someone else's models. If the community doesn't support you, though, there's nothing you're going to be able to do.

(I'm not allowing my son to play 40k until he's old enough and composed enough to not make a horse's rear out of himself or me. I understand that I love him unconditionally, but that's no reason anyone else should have to.)

 Jimsolo wrote:
...I understand that I love him unconditionally, but that's no reason anyone else should have to.)

Brilliant! Having kids myself, I definitely agree with this sentiment!

 Ailaros wrote:
A conflict is something that happens between two people, and it's not always just one party that's to blame...

But when one of those people is blatantly cheating it's just one party to blame. It isn't nitpicking or condescending or whatever to expect your opponent to refrain from cheating and get upset if they don't.