PP: Warmachine/Hordes New Releases: Huge update on page 77!

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**Grimtuff**

Also Stormfall Archers.

And Aiyana and Holt, Blyth and Bull, Great Bears, Withershadow Combine, Blackfrost Shard, B13, Visgoth Rhoven, Commodore Cannon, Herne and Jonne, TAC, Chephalyx overlords, Sons of Bragg, Tyrant commander and Std.

Just a few.

**malfred**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
azreal13 wrote:
Well, I can't speak for the French, but all the pig women I've seen in the UK have only had one pair of breasts. (But usually multiple chins and stomachs)

You do not live in the countryside, do you ? Well, neither do I, but look at the picture !

AduroT wrote:
And yeah, dynamic mono pose models of something that you're going to take multiples of is something PP does that I hate.

Is there any unit in the whole Privateer Press range that does not come with some “perfect twins” ?
Also, it is the reason why I want to buy the blitzer older metal model :
http://privateerpress.com/hordes/gallery/trollbloods/privateer-exclusives/classic-dire-troll-blitzer
Yeah, distinct body pose from the other dire trolls !

You can build a set of Steelheads without perfect twins.

Because once you're done, A BUNCH OF THEM are going to be horribly disfigured.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Grimtuff wrote:
Also Stormfall Archers.

And Aiyana and Holt, Blyth and Bull, Great Bears, Withershadow Combine, Blackfrost Shard, B13, Visgoth Rhoven, Commodore Cannon, Herne and Jonne, TAC, Chephalyx overlords, Sons of Bragg, Tyrant commander and Std.

Just a few.

Most of those are character units of 2 or 3 models, so not very good counterexamples. But Stormfall Archers (and Cephalyx Overlord, even though they are only 3) are a good counterexamples. I guess any rules has its exceptions then

.

**Souleater**

AduroT wrote:
Did they say there would be a different version of the resculpt coming later? I think that would be a first for them as usually their con sculpts don't get a second wide release version like that. They usually just sit as limited availability during events.

I think this is more like the Convergence Steelsoul Protector. It has a standard sculpt and a Limited Edition one.

**Grimtuff**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Grimtuff wrote:
Also Stormfall Archers.

And Aiyana and Holt, Blyth and Bull, Great Bears, Withershadow Combine, Blackfrost Shard, B13, Visgoth Rhoven, Commodore Cannon, Herne and Jonne, TAC, Chephalyx overlords, Sons of Bragg, Tyrant commander and Std.

Just a few.

Most of those are character units of 2 or 3 models, so not very good counterexamples. But Stormfall Archers (and Cephalyx Overlord, even though they are only 3) are a good counterexamples. I guess any rules has its exceptions then .

I know, hence the

I was ribbing you.

**AduroT**

Souleater wrote:
AduroT wrote:
Did they say there would be a different version of the resculpt coming later? I think that would be a first for them as usually their con sculpts don't get a second wide release version like that. They usually just sit as limited availability during events.

I think this is more like the Convergence Steelsoul Protector. It has a standard sculpt and a Limited Edition one.

Nah, from what I've heard since asking that they Are doing a non limited resculpt that will have a different soul trail without the dice in it.

**highlord tamburlaine**

Well if that Goreshade will return sans dice and dragging a Bane back into action, I think I'll hold off until May.

It seems too nice and dynamic of sculpt for them to waste on a one off con exclusive- most of the previous exclusives seemed more light hearted and fun.

It's great for me as I'd been wanting a Goreshade, and was never too impressed by the original.

Guess I'll have to start in on that pile of Banes I haven't bothered building yet to await the Bastard's return.

**.Mikes.**

skullking wrote:
Wow! Quite a line up for PP! overall, I'm pretty happy with all of this stuff.

New Hordes book:.

Noob question incoming. I'm only just getting into Warmachine/Hordes. Am I reading this right that there will be a Mk3 Primal book coming soon?

**Cyporiean**

.Mikes. wrote:

Noob question incoming. I'm only just getting into Warmachine/Hordes. Am I reading this right that there will be a Mk3 Primal book coming soon?

Not for another few years, this is another expansion book.

**.Mikes.**

Cyporiean wrote:
.Mikes. wrote:

Noob question incoming. I'm only just getting into Warmachine/Hordes. Am I reading this right that there will be a Mk3 Primal book coming soon?

Not for another few years, this is another expansion book.

Ah cool, thanks mate. I can continue my planned Circle army then. Much obliged.

**Some_Call_Me_Tim?**

Are there more Cephalyx units that PP hasn't previewed yet? I ask since I REALLY like their aesthetic and would love it if they get more models than just what was shown in the keynote address.

~Tim?

**Laughing Man**

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
Are there more Cephalyx units that PP hasn't previewed yet? I ask since I REALLY like their aesthetic and would love it if they get more models than just what was shown in the keynote address.

~Tim?

Not entirely sure, but barring the existing models I don't think there'll be too much more in the inital Forces Of Warmachine book. We're probably looking at something very similar to the Mk I Pirates of the Broken Coast release.

**Surtur**

To be fair, this is about how much they showed of Cyris when they were first announced.

**Laughing Man**

Also while you're here Surtur, methinks the thread title needs updating.

**Surtur**

Yes indeedy! I also fixed the title to get rid of the excess words and put the videos in the first post.

**frozenwastes**

In the latest No Quarter there's a tier list that makes the Cephalyx that already exist make sense in a Cryx army. At tier 1 they get one more added to their field allowance and all Cephalyx units have their points costs reduced by one. Tier 2 gives drudges advanced deployment. Tier 3 is a +1 to starting roll. and Tier 4 is a thing of beauty. Offensive upkeeps are placed on enemy non-warlock/warcaster models/units that they'd normally be able to target. And you can take Deathjack and Nightmare as well as some prime-era units and solo staples like warwitches and a skarlock.

And the best part? It's an Wraith Witch Deneghra tier list.

So I'm going to be expanding my Cryx into mecs with this tier lists for sure.

**Laughing Man**

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that list is going to sell a lot of Drudges. Good way to get people into the new Merc contract, too.

**RiTides**

Wehrkind wrote:
RiTides wrote:
Bah, organic models using only one body sculpt being made as modular restic kits means that they're all doomed to have their left fist raised, right fist lowered... just doesn't cut it from a modeling point of view with these big models, imo:

Totally agree. Even a different set of legs in the kit would at least allow for one different pose. *sigh* Sometimes PP seems a little cheapo on the model side of things, like they don't really try.

Still, I will take great rules and mediocre models over the opposite any day. (At least till I find better models to use )

The problem is, PP "culture" doesn't allow converting. Very glad our local group does, but sux for everybody else.

Surprised how many people chimed in to agree with this last page (a lot!). PP obviously brings in a lot of sales, at this point in their life cycle they should able to do much better. If anything, they're regressing from a modeling perspective- the OOP troll sculpts were all unique for beasts.

It's frustrating, because the potential is there, but the fact that they are confident people will buy that faction with every large model in an identical, distinctive pose, is a real problem.

**Wehrkind**

Yea, if PP ever puts out a subpar ruleset, they are going to be hosed for new players. Miniatures are definitely not something you want to be skimping on, especially in a lowish model count game. Fielding 3 identical models that are big centerpieces is not exciting, and not many people want to do the kind of converting necessary. I say that based on how many people complain about it vs how many actually convert, so I might be a bit off.

**Tanakosyke22**

RiTides wrote:
Wehrkind wrote:
RiTides wrote:
Bah, organic models using only one body sculpt being made as modular restic kits means that they're all doomed to have their left fist raised, right fist lowered... just doesn't cut it from a modeling point of view with these big models, imo:

Totally agree. Even a different set of legs in the kit would at least allow for one different pose. *sigh* Sometimes PP seems a little cheapo on the model side of things, like they don't really try.

Still, I will take great rules and mediocre models over the opposite any day. (At least till I find better models to use )

The problem is, PP "culture" doesn't allow converting. Very glad our local group does, but sux for everybody else.

Surprised how many people chimed in to agree with this last page (a lot!). PP obviously brings in a lot of sales, at this point in their life cycle they should able to do much better. If anything, they're regressing from a modeling perspective- the OOP troll sculpts were all unique for beasts.

It's frustrating, because the potential is there, but the fact that they are confident people will buy that faction with every large model in an identical, distinctive pose, is a real problem.

Kind of speaking as a fan, but we do allow conversions to a degree, but not at the level one might be familiar with the GW side of things. This being due they have to be able to tell what the model is clearly so no confusing comes about in a tournament setting, which I can understand in that mind set. Also, you have to identify (both you and your opponent) in your squad who is the leader kind of easily.

However, do kind of agree as I concur with Wehrkind. I say at least give use an extra arm or so (well, can be anything in that realm but you get the pic) with a different pose just to change it up from model to model. That being said, the rules enough keep me in the game enough to tolerate the models (that and bit of handiwork on the model a bit) and to make me still do the hobby aspect of it.

**plastictrees**

In general they haven't taken advantage of anything that plastic offers except reduced cost, which is past on in a pretty marginal way to the consumer.
Multi-part that isn't multi-pose, no additional parts squeezed in to the sprue. Like you said, frustrating.

**Azreal13**

I'm willing to start playing either Warmachine or Hordes as soon as they release a faction/models that really grab me.

Hasn't happened yet, but I remain optimistic.

**plastictrees**

It's a really good game. Prone to giving you the most miserable gaming experience you can possibly have, but a good game given good people to play it with.

None of the factions grab me 100%, Cygnar come the closest but have enough duff models that I question why I'm putting time in to assembling/ painting them sometimes.

**Azreal13**

plastictrees wrote:
It's a really good game. Prone to giving you the most miserable gaming experience you can possibly have, but a good game given good people to play it with.

None of the factions grab me 100%, Cygnar come the closest but have enough duff models that I question why I'm putting time in to assembling/ painting them sometimes.

That's essentially my issue, I've a friend who's an ex-40K playing PP evangelist (he's a Pressganger and everything) so I've played a few starter level games, and while I won't likely tour around the country to play competitively like he does, I can comfortably see myself adding a standard size force to play the odd game.

However, my armies nearly always evolve from a painting/modelling perspective, rather than a gameplay one, so I just don't have it in me to start an army if I don't love the models, or at least most of them. As it stands with PP just now, I simply don't love anything they make enough to start collecting.

I've seen a few of the recent releases that I'm really liking though, man-on-rhino looks good, as do the KS exclusive casters, so, like I say, I remain optimistic. Really, I need them to drop something awesome this time next year so my queue is relatively empty!

**angryboy2k**

Agamemnon2 wrote:
Dais wrote:
At least monstrosities should be plastic kits and easy to re-pose.

From working on the plastic Mercenary Warjack, I'd say nothing about Privateer plastics is easy. It's a nightmarish material to work with, it doesn't even sand well.

Too right. I'd happily pay a premium for these things if they were in metal but I'll be damned if I waste good money on their gakky (and dirt-cheap) plastic.

The fact that there are multiple models with the same posing and basic body simply demonstrates that PP's willingness to sacrifice quality for profitability extends beyond raw materials as they are clearly getting two models sculpted for the price of one and a bit.

**Yodhrin**

Well that's disappointing, I was hoping to use a few of the Monstrosities as Ogryns/Mutilators for my Dark Mechanicus, but not if it's just a single-pose kit that builds minor variations; I've seen what happens when you try to convert PP plastics, it isn't pretty, they've somehow managed to combine all the negatives of resin(breaks too easily, warping) with all the negatives of metal(hard to cut, sometimes soft detail), and made it almost as annoying and fruitless to file/sand as Green Stuff on top of that.

Ah well, maybe I'll at least be able to pick up a few of the character models cheap through an online discounter to harvest the "evil" servo-arms from.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

RiTides wrote:
The problem is, PP "culture" doesn't allow converting.

Well, there is always a long discussion about conversions on the Steamroller.

Players must be unambiguous about model representation. The following rules must be followed when using converted models in organized play. These rules are meant not to limit a player’s modeling options but rather to allow creativity without generating an environment that could become confusing during game play. At his discretion, an EO can make exceptions to these rules to approve any reasonable conversion.
A converted model must contain a majority of parts from the WARMACHINE or HORDES model for which the rules were written. For example, a Testament of Menoth conversion must be composed mostly of parts from the Testament of Menoth model. The end result of any conversion must be clearly identifiable as the intended miniature and must accurately represent its weapons and equipment as listed in its rules.
Any conversions must be clearly pointed out to the opponent before the game to avoid confusion.
On warrior models, converting and swapping weapons is acceptable as long as the new weapon represents the same type of weapon as the one replaced (such as swapping one sword for another). Any feature relating to a weapon’s specific rules must be maintained to avoid confusion on the tabletop. For example, a weapon with Chain Weapon must still be modeled as a chain-style weapon, and a weapon’s length must be comparable when converting weapons with Reach.
Weapons cannot be swapped on warjack and warbeast models. Since many of the ’jacks utilize the same chassis and many of the beasts utilize the same torso, the weapons are the most identifiable part of the model when looking across the tabletop. Converting warjacks and warbeasts is still encouraged, but the aesthetics of the weapons must be maintained. Modifying weapons is permitted as long as the end result is easily identifiable as the intended warjack’s or warbeast’s proper weapon.
Models and units with available upgrade kits are an exception to the standard model conversion rules in three ways. First, because upgrades define an entirely separate set of stats and abilities, these parts must be clearly visible on the model or unit matching the upgrade stat card. For example, a helljack with one claw and one harpoon is not Malice; the model must have the correct head, harpoon blade, and all three spirit parts from the Malice upgrade in order to be considered Malice.
Second, once a model or unit has been converted, it can only be fielded as that model or unit. For example, a Warpwolf with the parts from the Ghetorix upgrade is not an acceptable conversion for use with a Warpwolf Stalker stat card.
Third, in the case of a unit attachment or weapon attachment upgrade, the model(s) that use the upgrade stat card must follow these rules, but the base unit follows the standard conversion policy for warrior model conversions described above. For example, a Black Dragon Officer & Standard must always use the Black Dragon upgrade stat card and an Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard must always use the Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard stat card, but an Iron Fang Pikemen unit without a unit attachment uses its standard stat card whether or not they have Black Dragon shields (or any other reasonable conversion).
Miniatures must be on appropriately sized WARMACHINE or HORDES bases, but scenic details can be added. The base’s perimeter must always be considered when modeling scenic details. While it is acceptable for scenic elements to overhang the base’s edge, the base itself is used for all measurements, not the scenic elements. The edge of a model’s base must not be obscured to the point that accurate measuring becomes difficult or impossible.

Emphasis mine. It is mainly common sense in a competitive environment.
Of course, PP being a private company, they are not going to welcome competitors model stand-in, hence the italic part, but I am pretty sure any tournament not organized by Privateer Press will allow you to use GW grotesques or other third-party parts in your Monstrosities, as long as you respect all the other rules listed here. Especially if you use the official weapons in the conversion !
And since there will likely be no character Monstrosity yet, it makes things easier.

azreal13 wrote:
However, my armies nearly always evolve from a painting/modelling perspective, rather than a gameplay one, so I just don't have it in me to start an army if I don't love the models, or at least most of them. As it stands with PP just now, I simply don't love anything they make enough to start collecting.

Maybe the solution will come from reading faction books and looking for fluff or models that gives you an idea for a force with a strong theme. That is how it worked with my “Military cap, cigars and middle-finger” shooty trollblood warband.

**Wehrkind**

azreal13 wrote:
plastictrees wrote:
It's a really good game. Prone to giving you the most miserable gaming experience you can possibly have, but a good game given good people to play it with.

None of the factions grab me 100%, Cygnar come the closest but have enough duff models that I question why I'm putting time in to assembling/ painting them sometimes.

That's essentially my issue, I've a friend who's an ex-40K playing PP evangelist (he's a Pressganger and everything) so I've played a few starter level games, and while I won't likely tour around the country to play competitively like he does, I can comfortably see myself adding a standard size force to play the odd game.

However, my armies nearly always evolve from a painting/modelling perspective, rather than a gameplay one, so I just don't have it in me to start an army if I don't love the models, or at least most of them. As it stands with PP just now, I simply don't love anything they make enough to start collecting.

I've seen a few of the recent releases that I'm really liking though, man-on-rhino looks good, as do the KS exclusive casters, so, like I say, I remain optimistic. Really, I need them to drop something awesome this time next year so my queue is relatively empty!

Yea, I hear you on that. I would recommend, if you like the rules (which are really satisfying I find) just to make your own armies and write what each model is on the base or something. I do counts as for a lot of stuff and the local guys don't mind, if only because many used to play GW games and are old enough to remember when armies had ~60% of the models released. I might not be able to play in PP sponsored tournaments, but smaller local ones no one seems to mind (or notice half the time) and the general games with the lads go fine.

**Platuan4th**

I'm excited for the Cephalyx, monopose Monstrosities or not.

I really need to find a ninja shopper for Lock & Load.

**frozenwastes**

I have an entire hordes army made of Reaper bones miniatures. It's a skorne army using giants from reaper instead of the elephant titans and various other miniatures instead of the skorne infantry. I got told "no" by a tournament at a convention when I jokingly inquired about playing it, but "yes" at a small store tournament-- probably because I bought the miniatures there.

There's also never been any confusion as to what things are because everything is armed exactly right and I did some conversion and painting to make it extra obvious. The "bronzeback" literally has metal shoulder and back plate armour I added with grey-stuff and it is painted bronze.