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Indifferent to the Ultramarines. Not my favorite... not my least favorite. Just another chapter.

But I can see why people would hate. They're just too... perfect.

 Traejun wrote:
Indifferent to the Ultramarines. Not my favorite... not my least favorite. Just another chapter.

This is my opinion too...and those " UM are the best " lines (which degrade other chapters) need to be ignored...simple

I like the Ultramarines I have seen Dark Angels being savaged as well.

I wasn't wild about their color scheme, their punny name, or their "We're Scottish Romans!" fluff, but they started to grow on me after Know No Fear.

2 words...poster boys

 DarthMarko wrote:

 Traejun wrote:
Indifferent to the Ultramarines. Not my favorite... not my least favorite. Just another chapter.

This is my opinion too...and those " UM are the best " lines (which degrade other chapters) need to be ignored...simple

What's hilarious is the 'Ultramarines are the best' stuff comes right from Rick Priestley in the 2nd edition Ultramarines codex. Ward's just repeating bad old fluff.

^ Ultra - Marines....Funny, even in that CGI movie the starting line was: "...and the best of them are....UM"

Well as a friend called em: "Movie-marines" they are basically the "goody-goody two shoes perfect space marine" kind of deal, at least in the games i have seen so far.

And they happen to beat a tyranid fleet, a orc fleet, and a few other races ( by some: at the same time ) and seemly they have a wardsave of 1+ on any character that doesnt have a helmet.

I guess thats where the msot of the hate come from.

Personally: just another target to shoot down or eat.

They don't have all the tricky undercosted garbage that crutch up the niche chapters.

Pretty much what a few others have said; its that they're pushed down our throats as the 'model' chapter, when they have nothing in particular that makes them special....
They're just warriors, and that's it, whilst other chapters have something else to go with being warriors. Space Wolves are warriors and viking werewolves, Blood Angels are vampire angels, Dark Angels are ultra secretive monks etc.

Plus, I just don't like blue, but that's a pretty weak reason, but it's still a reason...

Mhm how to make a godlike chapter even more godlike... *thinks* ohh i know! *writes random codex*



Excellent.

Reason? It was their Primarch's brilliant idea to minimize the size of the Adeptus Astartes Legions and turn them into Chapters. bs!

 tundrafrog1124 wrote:
Reason? It was their Primarch's brilliant idea to minimize the size of the Adeptus Astartes Legions and turn them into Chapters. bs!

This idea plainly worked. There hasn't been an Astartes insurrection on nearly the same scale as the Horus Heresy in ten thousand years. It took like three hundred for half the Legions to rebel.


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 beej138 wrote:
Pretty much what a few others have said; its that they're pushed down our throats as the 'model' chapter, when they have nothing in particular that makes them special....
They're just warriors, and that's it, whilst other chapters have something else to go with being warriors. Space Wolves are warriors and viking werewolves, Blood Angels are vampire angels, Dark Angels are ultra secretive monks etc.

Plus, I just don't like blue, but that's a pretty weak reason, but it's still a reason...

So because they're not special snowflakes, lol?

You know, the Ultramarines are the "model" chapter because they don't have crippling genetic flaws that render them insane, nigh-mindless killers (Space Wolves, Blood Angels), or crippling paranoia that has made them abandon their duties to the Imperium to fulfill their own secret agenda (Dark Angels). In the case of the Space Wolves, they have also subverted Imperial authority on many occasions, and actually started a war with the Inquisition. So yeah, lacking the severe baggage of the chapters you named, baggage that is often a hindrance, I can really see why the Ultramarines are looked at as the "model" chapter.

You say baggage, I say balls to stand up for themselves. TO MAY TO, TO MAH TO.

I would hardly call the potential side effects of the Canus Helix on the weak a crippling side effect. If anything, it avoids letting the crippling, undeserved weaklings through. Given the prevalence of such...quirks...of the various Gene Seeds, including ones believed to be from Guilleman, I doubt the Ultramarines are free of them, just hide them better. The Space Wolves are too bad ass to have to worry about it, and every one knows it. The Blood Angels well...that's just creepy.

 Badger_Bhoy wrote:
You say baggage, I say balls to stand up for themselves. TO MAY TO, TO MAH TO.

Is that why 90%+ marine chapters conform to the Ultramarine Primarchs' vision?

To-ma-to.

It IS easier to follow the herd after all. Safer since the Inquisition is scaaaaary.

 Badger_Bhoy wrote:
It IS easier to follow the herd after all. Safer since the Inquisition is scaaaaary.

Considering the Inquisition has killed off several chapters of the Space Marines due to heretical leanings (As in, not worshipping the Emporer Properly) . The fact they haven't culled the worthless monsters of SW already is a bit off. Course then again, the space puppies are a bit "special".

Damn right. So special we've schooled the Inquisition. Using just a single Great Company...

Saying we've been spared because we're not worth it, is like having a bigger kid push you off the swing and comforting yourself by trying to convince yourself that you were done swinging anyway.

It's basically because they are the poster boy's. Therefore, despite there being hundred's of cool chapters and armies out there, the ultramarines seem to get an undue amount of attention in both the fluff, and in other GW products. The game space marine is a good example, there are a ton of cool chapter's of space marines, but as usual, you end up being an ultramarine. Those, and the blood raven's, are the only two that seem to exist in videogame terms.

It's also got the opposite of the underdog effect. Everyone enjoy's rooting for the underdog in a fight, and ultramarines have been written as the opposite of an underdog, they almost always "win". That isn't fun to watch. It's always awesome to see a little guy win a fight against a huge guy if provoked, but it's not as fun to watch the huge guy just pummel everyone without breaking a sweat, and that's what the ultramarines tend to come across like.

While I do like the Ultramarines, the above makes the point. I think people can't relate as well to them, because of the apparent ease and righteous arrogance with which they succeed. We all respect a person or group that has suffered significantly, fought tooth and nail to earn their success. Not that the Ultramarines haven't deserved it, they just don't seem to have worked as hard.

A common statement seems to be the argument of the Ultramarines position as 'poster boys.' This was not always the case. Previously the Blood Angels and Crimson Fists were very much the 'poster boy' for 40k, but that hate doesn't follow them. The Rogue Trader book featured the Crimson Fists last stand as their cover, as did the 3rd? edition codex for Space Marines. A fair amount of the images for Space Marines are Crimson Fists. The old Space Hulk computer game was Blood Angels, as was the 2nd Space Hulk game. One of the original boxed starter sets was Blood Angels and Orks. So I question the 'poster boy' attitude unless people are jumping on the band wagon very late.

If it's about Fluff, the Ultramarines are painted as better than everyone? Mephiston shrugs off the Black Rage and gets heralded as the heir to Sanguinius. I think that rates as pretty over the top, and that's been around since 2nd edition. Looking at books there are a great number of books on Blood Angels, and Space Wolves. In fact I think one of their first books released back in the day was a Space Wolves book, so they got the literary lime light first.

And lastly the 'they always win.' If you read the history of the Ultramarines and the history of say the Blood Angels, the Blood Angels win a LOT more. The Ultramarines lost their homeworld and their 1st company and had to cry to the Blood Angels for help. Facts are being picked and chosen to come to a conclusion against one group without fulling taking into account the full scope of things.

Just saying...

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Considering the Inquisition has killed off several chapters of the Space Marines due to heretical leanings (As in, not worshipping the Emporer Properly) . The fact they haven't culled the worthless monsters of SW already is a bit off. Course then again, the space puppies are a bit "special".

If I remember correctly, the majority of Space Marines don't worship the Emperor at all.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Considering the Inquisition has killed off several chapters of the Space Marines due to heretical leanings (As in, not worshipping the Emporer Properly) . The fact they haven't culled the worthless monsters of SW already is a bit off. Course then again, the space puppies are a bit "special".

If I remember correctly, the majority of Space Marines don't worship the Emperor at all.

Yes, but one Inquisitor caught a space marine group that venerated the Emporer in a slightly odd way, and eventually got out to cause them to declare heresy on said group (Can't remember name, sorry about it)

It's mostly that they're generic, they need things that make then unique. The Tyranid wars thing is one such thing and is great. I also liked the old fluff where other chapters accused them of standing by the side and waiting out the heresy.
Or that the other primcarchs felt that guilliman took over after the heresy (I'm sure the idea hadn't even occurred to guilliman).

I like the ultras and guilliman as those people who does things their way and never even considered other may have another opinions...

I hate the ultras cause most of that got shifted to The lion and the dark angels in favour of making Guilliman and the ultras more flawless.

 TheDungen wrote:
It's mostly that they're generic, they need things that make then unique. The Tyranid wars thing is one such thing and is great. I also liked the old fluff where other chapters accused them of standing by the side and waiting out the heresy.
Or that the other primcarchs felt that guilliman took over after the heresy (I'm sure the idea hadn't even occurred to guilliman).

I like the ultras and guilliman as those people who does things their way and never even considered other may have another opinions...

I hate the ultras cause most of that got shifted to The lion and the dark angels in favour of making Guilliman and the ultras more flawless.

Actually as odd at it sounds, Deathwatch gives them a major issue.

Pride.

They are prideful, they believe they need to lead. That at times the Book of Guilliman outweights all other tactical decisions. That the blood angels do not know how to fight. That the Space Wolves would only botch the issue.

When they have their issue in Deathwatch (the RPG), they actually take control as team leader, and make all the others WORSE at what they are currently doing, because his pride will not allow him to stand down to let another deal with it. And if they do not gain the Team Leader Status, they actually start performing very badly as resentment runs through them.

They have no flaws, but those that they bring upon themselves. I thought it was pretty neat.

They're so dull that their empire is named after a Gas Station Franchise

I think Ultras are more of a standing joke than an actual object of hatred.

Hospy wrote:
I'm hazy on this point, but another point of contention is that the Ultramarines didn't exactly do a whole lot during the Horus Heresy compared to other legions, yet Gulliman somehow ends up dictating to others how they should run their outfits.

Sounds a bit like the French at the Treaty of Versaille .

In terms of the whole poste rboy thing, I don't think any army should be a poster boy. Its frustrating that almost all new comers (kids or not) get pushed towards Marine armies. The starter boxes for instance as far as i'm aware always include marines. But not just that, the Marines horrendously outmatch the opposing force. It would be nice to see the more people playing some of the other armies.

 Badger_Bhoy wrote:
Damn right. So special we've schooled the Inquisition. Using just a single Great Company...

Saying we've been spared because we're not worth it, is like having a bigger kid push you off the swing and comforting yourself by trying to convince yourself that you were done swinging anyway.

While I may disagree with some of your statements, I love the way that you use the Royal we, as if you actually are a Space Wolf.

I'm not taking the piss either.. I wish I could get as excited about the hobby at 33 as I did as a lad.

You need to! I turn 30 this year! Play SW, get excited! Wooooo!

Seriously, I love this hobby, everything about it, even the Ultramarines. Just wish I got to play more often! Maybe I'll do up some Ultramarines as allies. Look at it like they need supplemental training from the SW, so they can learn what being a Space Marine is all about. FOR RUSS!