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I have to admit, it's a sweet looking model. Especially with the Punisher cannons.
But looking at the Vendetta, and compairing it to a Vulture, seems like an auto choice
almost.

The two popular builds I keep hearing is Punisher cannons, or 4 MRPs. For the price you
pay, it seems there are better, and cheaper, options.

I'd love to hear other folks experiences or opinions.

 alarmingrick wrote:
The two popular builds I keep hearing is Punisher cannons, or 4 MRPs. For the price you
pay, it seems there are better, and cheaper, options.

Like? Name a unit that does better than twin-linked BS 4 (and pinning) punisher cannons for a mere 155 points. And I can guarantee you that unit isn't going to be on an AV 12 3 HP flyer with vector dancer.

 alarmingrick wrote:
I have to admit, it's a sweet looking model. Especially with the Punisher cannons.
But looking at the Vendetta, and compairing it to a Vulture, seems like an auto choice
almost.

The two popular builds I keep hearing is Punisher cannons, or 4 MRPs. For the price you
pay, it seems there are better, and cheaper, options.

I'd love to hear other folks experiences or opinions.

Punisher Vulture:
Delicious anti-horde, instakills AV11 and down, 12/12/10, and oh yeah, it flies.

I think that it is a really fun unit. I like to use vector dancer to unload punisher fire on vulnerable models. It can be useful every turn after it arrives, unlike a vendetta which has to disengage or have poor targets.

I like having a proper gunship too.

If your club allows FW, a Vulture is almost an auto-buy for me. You bring one, or god forbid two, of those things and you have all the anti-horde and light armor killing you could possibly ever need. For the fun of it I brought 2 against my Green Tide friend and it was hilarious to try and watch him kill it while they are vector dancing all over his orks

Punisher on back armor of leman russ squad;
18 hits and 6 glances or better and that is a target you shouldn't fire at.
MEQ;
4 dead
TEQ;
2 dead
GEQ;
10 dead(4+ cover; 8 dead)
Yeah that is even with cover so if they have troops and if not then vector dance
There is one list it doesn't do well against; the landraider DA list. Period.
Btw due to vector dancer they actually can take a vendetta with reasonable reliability.

Well, I'll have 2 with Punisher cannons. The 3rd one is kind of the reason for this thread.
My first thought was 4 MRPs. It won't do anything against fliers, and I'm not sure I'll face
enough hordes to warrant it. I was looking at the other load outs and anything other than
the 2 mentioned don't seem like they're a better choice than the Vendetta.
Thanks for the input.

 alarmingrick wrote:
Well, I'll have 2 with Punisher cannons. The 3rd one is kind of the reason for this thread.
My first thought was 4 MRPs. It won't do anything against fliers, and I'm not sure I'll face
enough hordes to warrant it. I was looking at the other load outs and anything other than
the 2 mentioned don't seem like they're a better choice than the Vendetta.
Thanks for the input.

You need a scoring unit in a flyer. It's such a fantastic capability to have.

I'm building :
- a Punisher one (because .... because GATLINGS !)
- a 4 MRP one (because ... because BLASTS !)
- a TLAC + 6HK missiles (because it's a dual purpose anti-tank / anti-air and I hate vendettas and refuse to use them)

Don't plan on using all threes at once in friendly / regular games, but in bigger games / tournaments, sure

In asnwer to the original Q, yes, it does

It was originally meant to be used it how its used in IA:8 as a heavy escort to Valks, or as the heavy firepower in an air-cav style list when you arent taking Russes and the like.

Now its just plain awesome on its own but it does compete for the HS slot with Russes (unless its been re-classified in the Death from the Skies book)

The key benefit of Vultures is the Vector Dancer. It makes it so much easier for it to remain on the table every turn and allows you to get in behind enemy vehicles.

I prefer the MRPs on mine, but its a fair point that it removes the AA utility of the thing. I'm actually a bit sad that they changed the MRPs to being the same as the Valkyrie ones. They were great fun when each MRP was a 2-shot small blast weapon. 8 blasts out of one model


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, it may compete with Russes in the HS slot, but is it not actually more resilient given the lower preponderance of anti-aircraft weapons? The 6 to hit rule really helps bring the survivability up, especially against the kinds of high S weapons that would be threatening Russes.

 Flinty wrote:
Also, it may compete with Russes in the HS slot

It doesn't. Vultures are fast attack.

Even better

 Peregrine wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
Also, it may compete with Russes in the HS slot

It doesn't. Vultures are fast attack.

Unless you are running Elysian's then there are heavy choice for them.

Plus it has Strafing Run. So that BS 4 re-rolling with the Punisher on most things.

 Panzer1944 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
Also, it may compete with Russes in the HS slot

It doesn't. Vultures are fast attack.

Unless you are running Elysian's then there are heavy choice for them.

Plus it has Strafing Run. So that BS 4 re-rolling with the Punisher on most things.

Plus bs4 bolter. Plus all of it is pinning. I always forget the pinning though.

 Trickstick wrote:

Plus bs4 bolter. Plus all of it is pinning. I always forget the pinning though.

Do you think the Pinning makes much of a difference? It's pretty much irrelevant against most hordes out there (I'm thinking gants, orks and IG to a certain extent).

To OP - this is odd, but my Ex-girlfriend was from Moore OK so I know the place reasonably well. Where do you play 40k? Obviously from my IP you can see I'm not there any more, but I never found a 40k community there...

I managed to luck out and pin a BA Librarian that was about to jump in and annihilate my CCS. Needless to say he didn't survive the next round of shooting I wouldn't base a whole strategy around it, but it can occasionally be put to good use. Best not to forget about it, certainly.

 Griddlelol wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

Plus bs4 bolter. Plus all of it is pinning. I always forget the pinning though.

Do you think the Pinning makes much of a difference? It's pretty much irrelevant against most hordes out there (I'm thinking gants, orks and IG to a certain extent).

It is a way to force multiple LD checks in a single phase. Pinning a unit denies them movement, so can help you win battles if use correctly.

 Trickstick wrote:


It is a way to force multiple LD checks in a single phase. Pinning a unit denies them movement, so can help you win battles if use correctly.

Indeed, I understand how pinning works, and why it's potentially useful. However, I asked whether it's relevant. In the early game the Vulture is going to be targeting hordes to make use of that beautiful 20TL BS:4 shots. Most hordes are immune or can get around pinning.
Late game, when you're picking less optimal targets, i.e. not hordes, it could be useful, but those less optimal targets also tend to have immunity, or high Ld.

I also don't see the relevance of forcing >1 Ld check. The unit is just as likely to pass one as it is to pass two.

Ork boys can be pinned if you hit them twice with the vulture or if you have anything else firing at the mob to knock them under the 10 for fearless. Guard blobs can be pinned and require an order from the CC to stand back up (if he is in range, removes a use of BiD or FoMC) and most 4+ save models do not have fearless. While not optimal, it still wipes 5 T4 t+ save models off the board or 6 T3, forcing probably 2 ld checks to make them be much less useful.


I dont think people realize how strong vector dancer is. Since the weapons are wing mounted, there is no flier in the game that you cannot rear armor when it comes on (angle the move 36 from the corner, vector dancer turn, 45* arch). That the Vulture has vector dancer that not even the DE fliers get is just stupid. Also the free upgrade to AV12 from AV11 made it one of the strongest forgeworld unit. If you are questioning its usefulness you really need to go look at the stats again.

 Griddlelol wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:


It is a way to force multiple LD checks in a single phase. Pinning a unit denies them movement, so can help you win battles if use correctly.

Indeed, I understand how pinning works, and why it's potentially useful. However, I asked whether it's relevant. In the early game the Vulture is going to be targeting hordes to make use of that beautiful 20TL BS:4 shots. Most hordes are immune or can get around pinning.
Late game, when you're picking less optimal targets, i.e. not hordes, it could be useful, but those less optimal targets also tend to have immunity, or high Ld.

I tend to aim at smaller, more elite units or light vehicles. The ability to force a lot of saves on a unit is great.

 Griddlelol wrote:
I also don't see the relevance of forcing >1 Ld check. The unit is just as likely to pass one as it is to pass two.

Passing two LD checks has a lower probability than passing one. Every chance may have the same probability, but taking multiple tests increases the likelihood that you will fail one, the same as armour saves.

 Trickstick wrote:


I tend to aim at smaller, more elite units or light vehicles. The ability to force a lot of saves on a unit is great.

That's true, the sheer number of hits the vulture can get is pretty crazy.

Passing two LD checks has a lower probability than passing one. Every chance may have the same probability, but taking multiple tests increases the likelihood that you will fail one, the same as armour saves.

I suppose, but it's only two checks. It's not the equivalent of making a terminator take 15 saves.

However, ld8 (most common ld) is 27% chance to fail. Therefore its very similar to a 3+ save. Making a marine take 2 saves is quite effective at killing it. Even ld 9 is 17% chance to fail, meaning its ~2+ armor. While ld9 will fail significantly less, this has the potential to incapacitate an entire unit. Making a terminator take 2 saves to remove his whole unit's threat for a turn is pretty strong.

 Griddlelol wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

Plus bs4 bolter. Plus all of it is pinning. I always forget the pinning though.

Do you think the Pinning makes much of a difference? It's pretty much irrelevant against most hordes out there (I'm thinking gants, orks and IG to a certain extent).

To OP - this is odd, but my Ex-girlfriend was from Moore OK so I know the place reasonably well. Where do you play 40k? Obviously from my IP you can see I'm not there any more, but I never found a 40k community there...

Basically, either New World at 29th and Sunnylane(depending on when you were here, it was at 44th & Sunnylane), or Game HQ at 89th and Penn. Game HQ had a period where they kinda went "Meh" to 40k, but things are better of late.

OT:
So would they work well squadroned in pairs? That's alot of shots at one target, but probably a dead one too.
The only reason I ask would be to free up room for a pair of Vendettas.

The Vulture is a death machine with two twin-linked punisher cannons; never doubt it.
Plus it is the most awesome model Forge World have ever made which is a bonus.

But you can't give it 2 tl punishers. It only comes with one.

 zephoid wrote:
That the Vulture has vector dancer that not even the DE fliers get is just stupid. Also the free upgrade to AV12 from AV11 made it one of the strongest forgeworld unit. If you are questioning its usefulness you really need to go look at the stats again.

And the sad thing is despite all those benefits it's still probably not as good as a Vendetta. You can call it overpowered if you want, but really the Vulture is just the bare minimum you have to offer to get an IG player to even consider taking a flyer that isn't a Vendetta.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 alarmingrick wrote:
So would they work well squadroned in pairs?

You can't squadron them.

One of the funnier applications for a buddy of mine was an a dual role infantry suppression and interceptor. 20 twin liked shots into the back of most any flyer is gonna get you a kill in one or two turns, less if you have a ADL. Then once the air is clear you can hit ground targets of opportunity (infantry OR light vehicles. All around really good flyer.

 Flinty wrote:
But you can't give it 2 tl punishers. It only comes with one.

This is incorrect. You replace the weapons under each with with two (I.E. twin linked) Punisher gatling cannons. Check Forge World.

Cheesedoodler wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
But you can't give it 2 tl punishers. It only comes with one.

This is incorrect. You replace the weapons under each with with two (I.E. twin linked) Punisher gatling cannons. Check Forge World.

Err, that's what they said. You replace all weapons with a single twin-linked punisher cannon, not two single punisher cannons.