Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

New tactic. Take CSM as primary detachment. Huron is warlord. Infiltrate GUO.

Any reason this can't be done?

NamelessBard wrote:
New tactic. Take CSM as primary detachment. Huron is warlord. Infiltrate GUO.

Any reason this can't be done?

You can only infiltrate Infantry units, not MCs.

 Sasori wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:
New tactic. Take CSM as primary detachment. Huron is warlord. Infiltrate GUO.

Any reason this can't be done?

You can only infiltrate Infantry units, not MCs.

Ahhh, right!

Some Dakka members... Evileyes in particular... wanted to know the outcome of a GK VS Daemons game between two tourney level players.

The GK won overall, but it was much much closer than either player thought it would be.

From the game we came away with the following info...

Mobs of Slaaneshi units are best for taking out Terminators. Just flood the board with them, especially Daemonettes. I'm talking hordes of Daemonettes. We saw 20 strong units tear through the GK with consummate ease.

Always give your heralds and unit leaders a magic weapon. The AP2 works wonders.

Don't bother with Greater Daemons, they die in one combat vs GK.

Take the obligatory Plaguebearers to grab objectives.

Nurglings are your friends vs shooting. They make awesome meat shields vs GK shooting.

Gang up on your opponent... 2 vs 1.

On the other side...

Terminators are your friends. Paladins less so due to points cost. The elite level MEQ GK were awesome due to the amount of Psycannons.

The baby carrier was great against the big things but totally rubbish vs the little things.

Take halberds. You need these.

Puscifer wrote:
Some Dakka members... Evileyes in particular... wanted to know the outcome of a GK VS Daemons game between two tourney level players.

The GK won overall, but it was much much closer than either player thought it would be.

From the game we came away with the following info...

Mobs of Slaaneshi units are best for taking out Terminators. Just flood the board with them, especially Daemonettes. I'm talking hordes of Daemonettes. We saw 20 strong units tear through the GK with consummate ease.

Always give your heralds and unit leaders a magic weapon. The AP2 works wonders.

Don't bother with Greater Daemons, they die in one combat vs GK.

Take the obligatory Plaguebearers to grab objectives.

Nurglings are your friends vs shooting. They make awesome meat shields vs GK shooting.

Gang up on your opponent... 2 vs 1.

On the other side...

Terminators are your friends. Paladins less so due to points cost. The elite level MEQ GK were awesome due to the amount of Psycannons.

The baby carrier was great against the big things but totally rubbish vs the little things.

Take halberds. You need these.

Seems to confirm what I've said: unless a GK player tailors his list against Daemons its not gonna be the curb stomp battle most imagine...

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
Some Dakka members... Evileyes in particular... wanted to know the outcome of a GK VS Daemons game between two tourney level players.

The GK won overall, but it was much much closer than either player thought it would be.

From the game we came away with the following info...

Mobs of Slaaneshi units are best for taking out Terminators. Just flood the board with them, especially Daemonettes. I'm talking hordes of Daemonettes. We saw 20 strong units tear through the GK with consummate ease.

Always give your heralds and unit leaders a magic weapon. The AP2 works wonders.

Don't bother with Greater Daemons, they die in one combat vs GK.

Take the obligatory Plaguebearers to grab objectives.

Nurglings are your friends vs shooting. They make awesome meat shields vs GK shooting.

Gang up on your opponent... 2 vs 1.

On the other side...

Terminators are your friends. Paladins less so due to points cost. The elite level MEQ GK were awesome due to the amount of Psycannons.

The baby carrier was great against the big things but totally rubbish vs the little things.

Take halberds. You need these.

Seems to confirm what I've said: unless a GK player tailors his list against Daemons its not gonna be the curb stomp battle most imagine...

Agreed. Also, I bet the Daemons list hasn't been fully optimized yet, given the amount of time the book has been available.

I think Daemons do have massive weaknesses vs certain armies.

Guard, some GK armies, Tau and Dark Eldar specifically are going to be hard games.

Even matches will come against Nids and possibly Orks.

Elite armies such as Eldar, MEQ and TEQ are going to be better for us.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Daemons list played out its first game against GK and it was in no way tourney standard broken.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean competitive not broken.

Puscifer wrote:
I think Daemons do have massive weaknesses vs certain armies.

Guard, some GK armies, Tau and Dark Eldar specifically are going to be hard games.

Even matches will come against Nids and possibly Orks.

Elite armies such as Eldar, MEQ and TEQ are going to be better for us.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Daemons list played out its first game against GK and it was in no way tourney standard broken.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean competitive not broken.

I'm not seeing how Tau are going to be trouble for Daemons.

 Sasori wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
I think Daemons do have massive weaknesses vs certain armies.

Guard, some GK armies, Tau and Dark Eldar specifically are going to be hard games.

Even matches will come against Nids and possibly Orks.

Elite armies such as Eldar, MEQ and TEQ are going to be better for us.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Daemons list played out its first game against GK and it was in no way tourney standard broken.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean competitive not broken.

I'm not seeing how Tau are going to be trouble for Daemons.

Same here, and while mech/air force guard is gonna be a problem, blob guard will be chumps if you max out on Khorne Cannons.

My bad... put them in the wrong section.

Puscifer wrote:
I think Daemons do have massive weaknesses vs certain armies.

Guard, some GK armies, Tau and Dark Eldar specifically are going to be hard games.

Even matches will come against Nids and possibly Orks.

Elite armies such as Eldar, MEQ and TEQ are going to be better for us.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Daemons list played out its first game against GK and it was in no way tourney standard broken.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean competitive not broken.

Dark Eldar Venom Spam is the only real bad matchup at this point.

If the Guard player doesn't cripple the daemon player very early on, he is done. That one is not a bad matchup.

 Generalian wrote:
25% hidden of the FACING of the vehicle from the FIRER = 4+ cover save in ruins or other applicable cover save listed on page 18.

That means that anything shooting at a ground level to the soul grinder will give the cover save, but anything like a flyer or model higher up will ignore it.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/07/40k-vehicles-and-cover-saves-in-6th.html

That article is great when your talking about a nice rectangle block like a rhino.
The soulgrinder not a rectangle.

It's generally quite hard to determine whether 25% of the volume is covered in edge cases for non-boxes.

I think you may want to move the Soulgrinder Topic to YMDC, if you want to continue discussion on it, so we don't clutter this thread with it.

EDIT:


Hmm, it appears that that the Disruptive song on Fiends, stacks per model, instead of per unit like I thought at first. That could be really handy.

Had a little game Saturday with my newly acquired Nurgle allies for my CSM and I must say I really like the book

I teamed up with another Daemon player against Tau and a BA/GK mix, and I must say we performed quite well.

What I liked was a combo of Nurglings accompanying the GUO(for whom I rolled Iron Arm and Warp speed, which was very, very ridiculous ). I found that Nurglings are a good countercharge unit with their mass of poison attacks, or good to eat Overwatch if the GUO should miraculously be low on wounds.

Plague Bearers performed admirably as Objective campers, I even welcomed the deep stiking crisis suit/Dread Knight, as they were curteous enough to be close enough for the defensive grenades to kick in so I didn't even have to go to ground for a 2+ cover save. After the game I realized the GUO had them as well, a really good thing to know against Powerfistsor close range firepower like Meltaguns etc.

What do you guys think is a good delivery system for the GUO, as he is slow as hell on foot?

I was thinking about using 2x10 Plaguebearers with icon/instrument to deep strike and then have the GUO come in automatically without scattering.

Of course he could also simply deepstrike on his own, but I like the Plaguebearers for countercharges/accuracy.

Any further ideas?

 Evileyes wrote:
My Great unclean one, for instance, is taking 2 biomancy powers, and one nurgle power. I could have had 3 biomancy, or 3 nurgle if I wanted though.

This isn't true. A Daemon Psyker can take up to half (rounding up) of his powers from his God's discipline. So a Level 3 GUO can take: 3 book, or 2 book 1 plague, or 1 book 2 plague. You cannot take 3 plague.

 Malthor wrote:
Had a little game Saturday with my newly acquired Nurgle allies for my CSM and I must say I really like the book

I teamed up with another Daemon player against Tau and a BA/GK mix, and I must say we performed quite well.

What I liked was a combo of Nurglings accompanying the GUO(for whom I rolled Iron Arm and Warp speed, which was very, very ridiculous ). I found that Nurglings are a good countercharge unit with their mass of poison attacks, or good to eat Overwatch if the GUO should miraculously be low on wounds.

Plague Bearers performed admirably as Objective campers, I even welcomed the deep stiking crisis suit/Dread Knight, as they were curteous enough to be close enough for the defensive grenades to kick in so I didn't even have to go to ground for a 2+ cover save. After the game I realized the GUO had them as well, a really good thing to know against Powerfistsor close range firepower like Meltaguns etc.

What do you guys think is a good delivery system for the GUO, as he is slow as hell on foot?

I was thinking about using 2x10 Plaguebearers with icon/instrument to deep strike and then have the GUO come in automatically without scattering.

Of course he could also simply deepstrike on his own, but I like the Plaguebearers for countercharges/accuracy.

Any further ideas?

I've been considering this as well. A unit of Plaguedrones with an Icon could be good. 12" move, 2D6 Jetpack move in the Assault Phase. GUO can Deepstrike up to 6" from the Icon. An average of 25" across the board on turn 2.

People are referring to Nurgling poisoned attacks and I can't see where this is stated in the Codex?

 lindsay40k wrote:
People are referring to Nurgling poisoned attacks and I can't see where this is stated in the Codex?

Ha, thanks for pointing this out, since every other Nurgle unit has poison attacks I attributed it automatically to Nurglings

I'm in the "Too early to tell" camp. We'll see.

 Generalian wrote:


The unkillable GUO that is created with biomancy, two greater powers, and the grimore of true names

Grimoire can't target the guy holding it. A model cannot raise its own Invuln.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Generalian wrote:

We measured the model and the Aegis line and then did the math.
The aegis walls (not the raised parts) covers a little more (by almost 3cm) then 25% of the model and is therefore legally giving it cover.

"25%" does not mean, "25% of the total height of the model." It means "25% of the mass of the model." The Soul Grinder is extremely top-heavy. The legs are spindly and only make up about 33% of the total model. That means you'd have to cover about 75% of the legs (all the legs must be completely unseen from the shooter) to gain the Obscured.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Evileyes wrote:
if they shoot at anything through the nurgling's, I get big cover saves

Cover saves are based on True LoS. Nurglings are so short that there's a good chance they won't block anything. Shooting "through" a unit has no meaning in this edition.

Elric Greywolf wrote:

 Generalian wrote:


The unkillable GUO that is created with biomancy, two greater powers, and the grimore of true names

Grimoire can't target the guy holding it. A model cannot raise its own Invuln.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Generalian wrote:

We measured the model and the Aegis line and then did the math.
The aegis walls (not the raised parts) covers a little more (by almost 3cm) then 25% of the model and is therefore legally giving it cover.

"25%" does not mean, "25% of the total height of the model." It means "25% of the mass of the model." The Soul Grinder is extremely top-heavy. The legs are spindly and only make up about 33% of the total model. That means you'd have to cover about 75% of the legs (all the legs must be completely unseen from the shooter) to gain the Obscured.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Evileyes wrote:
if they shoot at anything through the nurgling's, I get big cover saves

Cover saves are based on True LoS. Nurglings are so short that there's a good chance they won't block anything. Shooting "through" a unit has no meaning in this edition.

The new nurgling bases are pretty tall. I can see them giving cover saves.

Samurai_Eduh wrote:

Elric Greywolf wrote:

 Generalian wrote:


The unkillable GUO that is created with biomancy, two greater powers, and the grimore of true names

Grimoire can't target the guy holding it. A model cannot raise its own Invuln.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Generalian wrote:

We measured the model and the Aegis line and then did the math.
The aegis walls (not the raised parts) covers a little more (by almost 3cm) then 25% of the model and is therefore legally giving it cover.

"25%" does not mean, "25% of the total height of the model." It means "25% of the mass of the model." The Soul Grinder is extremely top-heavy. The legs are spindly and only make up about 33% of the total model. That means you'd have to cover about 75% of the legs (all the legs must be completely unseen from the shooter) to gain the Obscured.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Evileyes wrote:
if they shoot at anything through the nurgling's, I get big cover saves

Cover saves are based on True LoS. Nurglings are so short that there's a good chance they won't block anything. Shooting "through" a unit has no meaning in this edition.

The new nurgling bases are pretty tall. I can see them giving cover saves.

BRB, pg 18:

If a target is partially hidden from the firer's view by models from a third unit... It receives a 5+ cover save in the same way ask if it was behind terrain. Similarly, if a model fires through the gaps between models in an intervening unit, the target is in cover, even if it is completely visible to the firer.

 lindsay40k wrote:

BRB, pg 18:

If a target is partially hidden from the firer's view by models from a third unit... It receives a 5+ cover save in the same way ask if it was behind terrain. Similarly, if a model fires through the gaps between models in an intervening unit, the target is in cover, even if it is completely visible to the firer.

That's the way I've always played it and the way I'm sure the writers intended for it to be played.

Puscifer wrote:
I think Daemons do have massive weaknesses vs certain armies.

Guard, some GK armies, Tau and Dark Eldar specifically are going to be hard games.

Even matches will come against Nids and possibly Orks.

Elite armies such as Eldar, MEQ and TEQ are going to be better for us.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Daemons list played out its first game against GK and it was in no way tourney standard broken.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean competitive not broken.

I don't think it's nearly as cut and dry with our 'bad/good' match-ups as other armies due to the popularity mono-god or heavily themed lists.

For example, a mono or heavy Slaanesh army will laugh at TEQ's. A similarly themed Tzeentch army will hate seeing TEQ spam. (lack of ap2 outside of characters hurts big time!)

Nurgle will shrug-off most gunlines, especially if they take advantage of chain-summoning off of Plaguedrones w/Icon + Instrument.

Khorne on the other hand eats MEQ's like no tommorow, while Tzeentch can simply drown it in saves from Flamers/Herald-buffed Horrors. (heck, I had just two units of Horrors and 1 Herald wipe-out a Deathwing Command Squad in one shooting phase, while just 3 Flamer templates took out 2 more Termies the next round)


I'd say our good/bad match-ups will depend solely on the overall composition of each individual player's force, unlike how say 'Nids for example know they're pretty boned vs GK's or DE for example.

Samurai_Eduh wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:

BRB, pg 18:

If a target is partially hidden from the firer's view by models from a third unit... It receives a 5+ cover save in the same way ask if it was behind terrain. Similarly, if a model fires through the gaps between models in an intervening unit, the target is in cover, even if it is completely visible to the firer.

That's the way I've always played it and the way I'm sure the writers intended for it to be played.

But largely academic on an army with 5++ universally..

Will help with other Nurgle units with shrouding, but I intend them more as a 'deal with me now, or I'll tie you up in CC until my big gribblies get here to rip face, oh look, while you we're dealing with me they've already got here!' type unit.

Experiment 626 wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
I think Daemons do have massive weaknesses vs certain armies.

Guard, some GK armies, Tau and Dark Eldar specifically are going to be hard games.

Even matches will come against Nids and possibly Orks.

Elite armies such as Eldar, MEQ and TEQ are going to be better for us.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Daemons list played out its first game against GK and it was in no way tourney standard broken.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean competitive not broken.

I don't think it's nearly as cut and dry with our 'bad/good' match-ups as other armies due to the popularity mono-god or heavily themed lists.

For example, a mono or heavy Slaanesh army will laugh at TEQ's. A similarly themed Tzeentch army will hate seeing TEQ spam. (lack of ap2 outside of characters hurts big time!)

Nurgle will shrug-off most gunlines, especially if they take advantage of chain-summoning off of Plaguedrones w/Icon + Instrument.

Khorne on the other hand eats MEQ's like no tommorow, while Tzeentch can simply drown it in saves from Flamers/Herald-buffed Horrors. (heck, I had just two units of Horrors and 1 Herald wipe-out a Deathwing Command Squad in one shooting phase, while just 3 Flamer templates took out 2 more Termies the next round)


I'd say our good/bad match-ups will depend solely on the overall composition of each individual player's force, unlike how say 'Nids for example know they're pretty boned vs GK's or DE for example.

I got Daemons tomorrow night with my DW.

Not looking forward to it as I'm outnumbered at least 4-1 and that is 4-1 of effective troops, not 4-1 of just anything.

Hey I just realized something, Daemons of Tzeentch get +3 to their Ld when casting powers, LoCs have a base Ld of 9. Obviously they still peril if they roll 2 or 12, but does this mean the powers still go off if they roll an 11?

Puscifer wrote:
I think Daemons do have massive weaknesses vs certain armies.

Guard, some GK armies, Tau and Dark Eldar specifically are going to be hard games.

Even matches will come against Nids and possibly Orks.

Elite armies such as Eldar, MEQ and TEQ are going to be better for us.

I've only played two games with the new codex so far. One against a vanilla Space Marine army which I won handily, and the onther against my son's Tyranids (Lots of MCs) which I lost horribly. Shadow in the Warp (and Runes of Warding against Eldar) are going to throw a huge wrench in our shooting, now that most of it is Psychic.

In the game against my son, he went first and flew his Flyrants close enough to get my Horror units inside the Shadow of the Warp bubble. With that move he was able to just shut down almost all of my shooting. The only decent ranged weapons I had were a single Soulgrinder and an ADL Quad Gun. I managed to kill a Trygon, but he had done so much damage in the first two turns that the game was unwinnable.

My game against the SM guy was almost the opposite. I got amazing gifts for my DP and LoC, including a ranged S:8 AP:1 Lance attack. I ran over that guy, pretty easily.

Overall my thoughts on this new codex are mixed. I don't mind if the power level goes up or down, that's to be expected. I'm just so very disappointed that the things that attracted me to this army are all gone. It plays like an entirely different army that just happens to use the same models.

Are the swords that heralds and other get Gifts? If so, Dark Excommunication (I think that's what the GK power is called) will suck.