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Awhile back I did a thread on crafting in video games. I always intended to do more and here we are a year latter with dialog systems in video games Lets get at it. What experiences have you had with game dialog systems? How did the systems work out and how do they compare to other systems you have seen? Do you have ideas that you think would be neat to see?

I'll kick off with a game no one else will mention. The sims 3 is a game that revolves around relationships and because of that, it ends up with a rather in depth system. The as part I like best is the trait system. When you make your character, you don' t have sliders where you fin detail the attributes of your charter. instead you pick four traits from a selection of dozens. You can be strong, weak, flirty, and even crazy. Maybe all four.

The traits you have then unlock dozens of options in the game. Flirty characters get more options to flirt. Crazy people get the ability to do and say crazy things. NPC also get in to the act and have traits of there own. NPCs get traits that alter interactions. A grumpy NPC is less responsive to being nice. NPC traits are random so things can play different each time. It's a system that offers unrivaled customization and role-play and I think it would be a good add-on to a more conventional system.

The only games that I've played with dialog systems have been;
Mass Effect Series
Oblivion
Fallout 3
Fallout New Vegas
Dragon Age Origins

Out of all these I much prefer the Mass Effect system. You are easily able to tell which responses are good, neutral or bad and when you get the ability which are the paragon and renegade choices. This makes choosing the right response for your character much easier than some other systems. Plenty of times I've chosen an answer that, reading the text, should have been delivered one way but seemed to be delivered another once selected (sarcasm vs compliment for example).
Also what helps makes Mass Effect stand out is the quality of the voice acting, for me this helped so much more with the immersion than the silent protagonist in the others I listed. I'm currently playing Dragon Age Origins and while I really enjoy the story and gameplay the dialog scenes bore me to tears because Mass Effect did them so much better.

I like RPG dialogue systems. An opportunity to ask what you want out of a list.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
The only games that I've played with dialog systems have been;
Mass Effect Series
Oblivion
Fallout 3
Fallout New Vegas
Dragon Age Origins

Out of all these I much prefer the Mass Effect system. You are easily able to tell which responses are good, neutral or bad and when you get the ability which are the paragon and renegade choices. This makes choosing the right response for your character much easier than some other systems. Plenty of times I've chosen an answer that, reading the text, should have been delivered one way but seemed to be delivered another once selected (sarcasm vs compliment for example).
Also what helps makes Mass Effect stand out is the quality of the voice acting, for me this helped so much more with the immersion than the silent protagonist in the others I listed. I'm currently playing Dragon Age Origins and while I really enjoy the story and gameplay the dialog scenes bore me to tears because Mass Effect did them so much better.

Mass effect has a nice system. The old school crowed will complain about the lack of responses, but it works. It's fast fluid and I never really felt like I needed more then the three responses.

Oh, also, I love Pokemon dialog systems.

No audio, easy to skim read and allows you to define the character well.

 BlapBlapBlap wrote:
Oh, also, I love Pokemon dialog systems.

No audio, easy to skim read and allows you to define the character well.

Yeah, everyone that isn't you is a tool.

The Mass Effect series is easily the best that I've seen in terms of interacting with an NPC character and feeling like you're actually having a fluid conversation. Throw in the mid-conversation paragon/renegade triggers from the later games and it becomes reasonably complex and interesting, having to make snap decisions that potentially effect the rest of the series.

Most other game systems (especially Eldar Scrolls, as much as I love them) are wooden and boring in comparison.

Fry Cry 3 has great dialogue and PC/NPC interaction but unfortunately it has no actual dialogue system. Basically everything is pre-scripted.

I like the one from fallout 1 - 2 the most I guess. So much nonsense.

To be honest, in this day and age, silent protagonists are starting to bug me. Sure, they can be handled well like in Half life 2 when you don't really notice.

But Fallout and Amalur? Since technology and things have moved on so much, it starts feeling to me that all the NPC's are actually crazy people talking to their imaginary friends.

In what possible way are you silent in Fallout? All you do is talk.

Silent protagonists =/= no voice acting.

A bit pedantic but anyhow, point taken.

No voice acting makes me feel now that all NPC's in modern games like Fallout 3, New Vegas and Kingdoms of Amalur are actually just crazy people talking to themselves. Comparing this to something like mass effect where voice acting ends up affecting the pacing and allowing more 'things' to happen during dialogue scenes, games with protagonists with no voice acting just feel out of date.

I can stand no voice acting when the game is first person because you silently read your own parts. I gets odd in other games that have more 3d conversations because you see yourself not talking and it's too awkward.

Oh any one recall that conversation pie from oblivion. That was crazy.

 Soladrin wrote:
I like the one from fallout 1 - 2 the most I guess. So much nonsense.

I was going to say the same... the sheer range of dialogue and choices that depended on stats etc i think makes it far deeper then something like ME

Also found dragon age 2 annoying at points when you pick a prompt and what your character says seemed utterly different or wrong from the choice you thought you might be making. Nothing like tear in fallout 2, what you picked was what you said.

No dialog system is the best system. Mass Effect got a *horrid* system. It's "Good Option - Neutral Option - Evil Option". That's it. No need to actually read text, if you go Paragon, just click the top one. Renegade, bottom one.

The best solution is just a few lines of text in no specific order. But gods beware, what are our poor ADHD CoD-generation children going to do when they are actually forced to "read" text in computer games? Ridiculous!

/rant

 Sigvatr wrote:
No dialog system is the best system. Mass Effect got a *horrid* system. It's "Good Option - Neutral Option - Evil Option". That's it. No need to actually read text, if you go Paragon, just click the top one. Renegade, bottom one.

Yep, just one of the many reasons why I can't stand Mass Effect. Hell, almost every game with a 'dialogue system.' They're all little more than "pick the right choice to fill in the good or evil bar." Despite the options you're given, it's all still completely one-dimensional.

 Fafnir wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
No dialog system is the best system. Mass Effect got a *horrid* system. It's "Good Option - Neutral Option - Evil Option". That's it. No need to actually read text, if you go Paragon, just click the top one. Renegade, bottom one.

Yep, just one of the many reasons why I can't stand Mass Effect. Hell, almost every game with a 'dialogue system.' They're all little more than "pick the right choice to fill in the good or evil bar." Despite the options you're given, it's all still completely one-dimensional.

Funnily the side effect of fully voiced player characters

No mention of Deus Ex: Human Revolution yet? Where dialogue events are, in a way, boss fights of conversation that are very tense and involving.

I rather liked HR's dialog fights. Whats really neat is that they unfold different each time. Not drastically, but enough that you can't memorize the right combo of choices.

Funny that I just got around reading this comic of Darth and Droids!




Anyways has no one here played Point and Click games like the Monkey Island Series or Sam and Max? Now those are dialog trees!

Having a complex dialogue tree doesn't necessarily mean that the game has any more depth than something like Mass Effect.

For me personally, the characters in Mass Effect came to life precisely because of the way the dialogue system worked. If you want to min-max your good or evil bar then of course it's going to be boring, that stands for any game, but I prefer to play in my characters shoes and try to decide what I would do in that situation, stats notwithstanding. So sometimes I might pick paragon and sometimes I might hit renegade, even if it means a penalty for me down the track.

A dialogue system is more than just how many options it gives you to say something. Deus Ex: Human Revolution is quite a good example.

Edit: Monkey Island and the like are quite good examples too as conversation was often the point of the game and gave the characters a full personality. Fallout I feel is a bad example. Your PC does not have a personality, even though the whole series are right up the top of my list of favourite games. I will forever remember my version of Shepherd for his uncompromising attitude and willingness to get his hands dirty to get the right thing done. I won't remember any of my fallout or eldar scrolls characters, because there is zero dialogue to give them personality.

 Paint_To_Redemption wrote:
Having a complex dialogue tree doesn't necessarily mean that the game has any more depth than something like Mass Effect.

For me personally, the characters in Mass Effect came to life precisely because of the way the dialogue system worked. If you want to min-max your good or evil bar then of course it's going to be boring, that stands for any game, but I prefer to play in my characters shoes and try to decide what I would do in that situation, stats notwithstanding. So sometimes I might pick paragon and sometimes I might hit renegade, even if it means a penalty for me down the track.

A dialogue system is more than just how many options it gives you to say something. Deus Ex: Human Revolution is quite a good example.

Edit: Monkey Island and the like are quite good examples too as conversation was often the point of the game and gave the characters a full personality. Fallout I feel is a bad example. Your PC does not have a personality, even though the whole series are right up the top of my list of favourite games. I will forever remember my version of Shepherd for his uncompromising attitude and willingness to get his hands dirty to get the right thing done. I won't remember any of my fallout or eldar scrolls characters, because there is zero dialogue to give them personality.

The main problem with Bioware games is the infamous "Bioware option". In way too many cases, there's an option that clearly is the best. That's terrible writing. The Witcher 2 had a *way* better storyline that Bioware could even dream of, mostly because of you having to make decisions you may not like. ME3 had very few of those, e.g. when you had to sacrifice Mordin or even had to shoot him in the back. when curing (or not) the Genophage. But other than that, most decisions are just bland and have very predictable results. Paragon options should sometimes lead to catastrophic results. That's how life works. But in the ME universe, you're just awesome.

Wasteland 2 is bringing back the key system. I reamber I used a system like that once and by used I mead tried a few words all of which had no responses.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Paint_To_Redemption wrote:
Having a complex dialogue tree doesn't necessarily mean that the game has any more depth than something like Mass Effect.

For me personally, the characters in Mass Effect came to life precisely because of the way the dialogue system worked. If you want to min-max your good or evil bar then of course it's going to be boring, that stands for any game, but I prefer to play in my characters shoes and try to decide what I would do in that situation, stats notwithstanding. So sometimes I might pick paragon and sometimes I might hit renegade, even if it means a penalty for me down the track.

A dialogue system is more than just how many options it gives you to say something. Deus Ex: Human Revolution is quite a good example.

Edit: Monkey Island and the like are quite good examples too as conversation was often the point of the game and gave the characters a full personality. Fallout I feel is a bad example. Your PC does not have a personality, even though the whole series are right up the top of my list of favourite games. I will forever remember my version of Shepherd for his uncompromising attitude and willingness to get his hands dirty to get the right thing done. I won't remember any of my fallout or eldar scrolls characters, because there is zero dialogue to give them personality.

The main problem with Bioware games is the infamous "Bioware option". In way too many cases, there's an option that clearly is the best. That's terrible writing. The Witcher 2 had a *way* better storyline that Bioware could even dream of, mostly because of you having to make decisions you may not like. ME3 had very few of those, e.g. when you had to sacrifice Mordin or even had to shoot him in the back. when curing (or not) the Genophage. But other than that, most decisions are just bland and have very predictable results. Paragon options should sometimes lead to catastrophic results. That's how life works. But in the ME universe, you're just awesome.

The only good options In ME were the ones that resulted in as many dead people as possible...