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Just finished a read through of the codex. What I'm loving is that pretty much any mono-god list is looking nasty if you build it right:

Khorne gives you, for 200 points, 20 models dishing out 40 S5 ap3 attacks on the charge, 60 if you put a herald in with them. Heralds themselves seem specifically built to destroy anyone stupid enough to challenge them. Hounds now have 2 wounds each, and will hit most troops on 3s with 3 S5 attacks each on the charge. Then there is the new bloodthirster stats (is he in range to assault you? yes? then you lose!), the S8 ap5 cannon that ignores cover, and the fact that it is free to make a Khorne souldgrinder, saving you precious points. Even bloodcrushes, nerfed as they are, can now move fast enough to charge the enemy before he can krak them to death.

Tzeentch gives you the ability to spam Divination powers, either with cheap lvl 3 heralds or powerful DPs and LoCs. If you're doing Daemonzilla, its probably gonna be tzeentch based Fateweaver could potentially have a re-rollable 2++, to say nothing of what pink horrors can do with all the prescience floating around, and Heralds that can make them strength 6. Screamers and Flamers got nerfed, but they are still powerful enough to smash infantry or wreck LRs.

Slaanesh: One word, RENDING. Cheap as hell rending! MCs and Vehicles with armor 12 and below now have to fear even your basic lighting fast troops, which with heralds stuck in them go at initiative TEN. Cheap as hell seekers mean your opponent won't be putting any stuff near the edges. The masque can turn any deathstar unit into chumps (whats that? Paladins? Oh look, now they have even worse BS than orks and can't overwatch, or can only hit you on 5s and move slower than nurgle).

Then there is Nurgle, with troops that have 2+ cover saves and FNP if you put a herald with them, beasts that can charge your opponent on HIS turn, Soul Grinders than can get 3+ cover saves, fast tough flies that can glance vehicles on a 6 (necrons who?) and of course, we have a biomancy powered EW, T10 GUO that WILL NEVER DIE.

What the new dex also got me thinking is, if mono lists are already this powerful, what happens when you mix and match the best from each?

One drawback with mono lists would be rolling the wrong number on the Warpstorm chart and absorbing a lot of warp bombardment. (I'm thinking of the god-specific hits.)

OTOH, the flexibility a mono-god build gives you as far as allocating your Heralds (e.g., joining troop units where/when they will do the most good) will make a daemon army more adaptable.

And adaptability will be particularly useful given that important aspects of the army (rolling on the gifts table and so on) won't sort themselves out until just before the first turn

 tinfoil wrote:
One drawback with mono lists would be rolling the wrong number on the Warpstorm chart and absorbing a lot of warp bombardment. (I'm thinking of the god-specific hits.)

OTOH, the flexibility a mono-god build gives you as far as allocating your Heralds (e.g., joining troop units where/when they will do the most good) will make a daemon army more adaptable.

And adaptability will be particularly useful given that important aspects of the army (rolling on the gifts table and so on) won't sort themselves out until just before the first turn

If you're genuinely afraid of that, take a 10-man Lesser Daemon squad with an Instrument. Hide them, use them as Objective holders, and re-roll any cases of "Oops, my god just shot you in the back"

I am thinking the exact opposite and feel that the codex is actually more effective with multi-god lists. Taking troops from all four powers and giving them instruments will help alleviate the increased chance of getting a unit hit with the Warpstorm chart, but even if you do get one of those results, you'll likely only have 2-3 units that could even be targeted (instead of the entire freakin' army).

Additionally, it really feels to me that mono lists really have some large gaps that the other god units can easily fill. Not saying a mono list can't be used effectively, just that multi god armies will probably be more so.

Slannesh seems good until you remember that you lack grenades meaning you will often be smacked around before getting your precious rending attacks.

LValx wrote:
Slannesh seems good until you remember that you lack grenades meaning you will often be smacked around before getting your precious rending attacks.

Give them the locus that reduces enemy initiative by 5.

 Evileyes wrote:

LValx wrote:
Slannesh seems good until you remember that you lack grenades meaning you will often be smacked around before getting your precious rending attacks.

Give them the locus that reduces enemy initiative by 5.

Which means you'll still be hitting together, and it means not taking the far better "Reroll all hits"

 Evileyes wrote:

LValx wrote:
Slannesh seems good until you remember that you lack grenades meaning you will often be smacked around before getting your precious rending attacks.

Give them the locus that reduces enemy initiative by 5.

You arent going to have enough of those for all of your squads and those heralds are mighty fragile. I'm not saying there arent ways to mitigate it, but the lack of grenades is both baffling and awful.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
I am thinking the exact opposite and feel that the codex is actually more effective with multi-god lists. Taking troops from all four powers and giving them instruments will help alleviate the increased chance of getting a unit hit with the Warpstorm chart, but even if you do get one of those results, you'll likely only have 2-3 units that could even be targeted (instead of the entire freakin' army).

Additionally, it really feels to me that mono lists really have some large gaps that the other god units can easily fill. Not saying a mono list can't be used effectively, just that multi god armies will probably be more so.

Yes there are still large Gaps, but I feel now that some mono-god lists can do things you couldn't before. Khorne, for example, now has a long range cannon, giving you some much needed firepower and basically giving you assault grenades when you charge any unit it hits. Tzeentch units can now actually do some damage in CC with a lucky dice roll, Nurgle now has fast moving cavalry. Slaanesh is the only one I see where you still have some trouble with things, but seekers and basic troops are so cheap now you can just horde up and throw them at your enemy until you roll enough 6s.

Well you can take the khornecannon and negate the effects of charging into terrain entirely...

I'm thinking that Nurgle is the way to go. Herald with bearers and soulgrinders behind an aegis, flies and more bearers as troops. Tough as nails and lots of dakka.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Well you can take the khornecannon and negate the effects of charging into terrain entirely...

Yes I have the feeling we'll be seeing the cannons a lot is khorne and slaaenesh lists

Mono Khorne could have some serious problems if they face transports and tanks.
Letters and crushers dont do well just hanging around waiting for the bloodthirster to smash all the AV open.

Say you face IG flamer veterans in transports -Ouch!

 Fayric wrote:
Mono Khorne could have some serious problems if they face transports and tanks.
Letters and crushers dont do well just hanging around waiting for the bloodthirster to smash all the AV open.

Say you face IG flamer veterans in transports -Ouch!

Cannons? S8 and BS5. It's also free to make Soul Grinders Khorne.

and of course, we have a biomancy powered EW, T10 GUO that WILL NEVER DIE.

Have you ever met Dark eldar? Or tyranids? xD Poison will still eat GUO's ...

Well nids hilariously have tons of psykers, so I can't wait to say "Your tervigon is now a hearld!)

As to the whole biomancy thing, you can't make sure you will get the power, so upgrading to level 3 becomes a points sink.

anatholos wrote:

and of course, we have a biomancy powered EW, T10 GUO that WILL NEVER DIE.

Have you ever met Dark eldar? Or tyranids? xD Poison will still eat GUO's ...

You would think, of all thing's, that a great unclean one, would be immune to poison. It's poisonous itself xD

 Evileyes wrote:

anatholos wrote:

and of course, we have a biomancy powered EW, T10 GUO that WILL NEVER DIE.

Have you ever met Dark eldar? Or tyranids? xD Poison will still eat GUO's ...

You would think, of all thing's, that a great unclean one, would be immune to poison. It's poisonous itself xD

necrons would like to have a word with you.

there must be something the DE can grind up to play haywire with anything with a toughness.

 Evileyes wrote:

anatholos wrote:

and of course, we have a biomancy powered EW, T10 GUO that WILL NEVER DIE.

Have you ever met Dark eldar? Or tyranids? xD Poison will still eat GUO's ...

You would think, of all thing's, that a great unclean one, would be immune to poison. It's poisonous itself xD

Maybe they use antibiotics?

anatholos wrote:

and of course, we have a biomancy powered EW, T10 GUO that WILL NEVER DIE.

Have you ever met Dark eldar? Or tyranids? xD Poison will still eat GUO's ...

Don't the GK have a a heavy 6 gun that hurts daemons on a 4+? That might make an appearance if daemons get really popular.

I think Grey Knights will be just fine. S5 storm bolters backed by Preferred Enemy are going to shred swarms of T3 lesser daemons, and the S8 dreads will massacre T4 multiwound models.

Looking at the codex if I wher to compose a army i think these are the winners:

Blood thirster will be quite good as will the Lord of Change backed up by Divination he will be able to shoot and to beat!

Karanak with 20 hounds will just eat anything on the charge and with some luck you have that turn 1...

Plaguebearers with heralds using biomancy and FNP loci will be very good
Spammable units of 20 Bloodletters with a herald will eat about anything they touch

Screamers are still very good

And in heavy i would never doubt, but for 300 points you get 3 Burning chariots sporting lascannons and mean flamers


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
I think Grey Knights will be just fine. S5 storm bolters backed by Preferred Enemy are going to shred swarms of T3 lesser daemons, and the S8 dreads will massacre T4 multiwound models.

Yeah they will do fine, S5 stormbolters, S8 autocannons, Forceweapons now hurt deamons hard, altough Nemesis part is redundant now..., Prefered enemy, psyk out grenades on the charge. I still think they got the edge and last but no least, Dark Excommunication will wreck face now... Fear that Dreadknight puny deamons

 felixcat wrote:

I'm thinking that Nurgle is the way to go. Herald with bearers and soulgrinders behind an aegis, flies and more bearers as troops. Tough as nails and lots of dakka.

The soulgrinder is too big to get cover from the aegis.

Almost forgot about Karanak and 20 Hounds, its shaping up to be to be the big Khorne deathstar this codex (440 points for 80 S5 wounds on the charge seems worth it though). Also won't have much to fear from GK with a 4+ Deny the Witch (3+ if you stick a herald with them, though of course you'll need to put it on a juggernaut to keep up))

I agree completely with Classic Carraway