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You have to discover it first, though, and on a silly WP of PanO... visors can't always make up for it. And in a 150 pts game, how many visors can you fit and still have 10 orders? Not that many, I guarantee.
GamesWorkshop wrote: And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
Bah even with pan'o wip 12 you have a 45% chance to discover a camo marker.
Also jsut a note if you are playing Pan'O vs Ariadna at 150pts Ariadna will have a severe advantage. Now that you are a few games in you prob want to go to 300pts.
Craftworld Uaire-Nem pics "Like shimmering daggers of light our fury shall rain down and cleanse this battlefield." Autarch of Uaire-Nem
BlueDagger's Nomad pics - "Morality, my friend, is merely a price tag." - BlueDagger, Contraband Dealer. Holo-recording played during the murder trial of an undercover PanOceania officer. Court Record 9002xaB, . Infinity Nomads - Come see what it's all about! |Looking for War-gaming matches in the Colorado area? Colorado Infinity
Without knowing what models you have here is a quick 150 pt Pan O list i threw together. It should be pretty handy at dealing with camo in both the active and reactive turns.
You just got two visors making unmodified discover rolls on WIP 13. And two more regulars making sensor checks on unmodified WIP 13. Thats not too shabby for Pan O. I even left 2 points over so you could upgrade the combi bagh mari to Stephen Rao for WIP 14 and an Assault Pistol if things get up close and personal. That is some pretty decent camo hunting on your active turn. And you got 4 minelayers! That is way more than any other faction in the game could field! So even if you don't the first turn you get to deploy knowing where most of your opponents markers are going to go and put a minefield in front of them. That will also put a dent in any rambo tactics as they will have to tread very carefully to get past the mines. And if you're worried about smoke you could swap out the bagh mari sniper for a nisse HMG. Even more damage in the active turn and can still ARO through any smoke shenanigans.
And getting 10 models at 150 pts means that the average cost of the models is 15 points per model. Even Ariadna doesn't have camo models that cheap (well excluding Metros which are only AVA 2). If there are more expensives units in the list there are going to be a lot of basic grunts to stay under 150 points.
I haven't been playing mines at all. The Bagh-Mari have, in my experience, very little staying power. Croc-Man I used to play but he gets killed (yes, even through TO and cover) very fast.
I've tried to get into the Ariadna frame of mind. With very little SWC, I come up with 6 camo markers and 4 cheerleaders.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And don't go thinking I am trying to be a Debby Downer, I'm just not seeing any options.
I could try the mines, but in the long run that's four more minis I have to buy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/10 01:50:35
GamesWorkshop wrote: And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
Next time you guys play take a pic of the board if you could please. If you could also provide the list you play and the list he plays we can try to analyze what is going on a lil better
Craftworld Uaire-Nem pics "Like shimmering daggers of light our fury shall rain down and cleanse this battlefield." Autarch of Uaire-Nem
BlueDagger's Nomad pics - "Morality, my friend, is merely a price tag." - BlueDagger, Contraband Dealer. Holo-recording played during the murder trial of an undercover PanOceania officer. Court Record 9002xaB, . Infinity Nomads - Come see what it's all about! |Looking for War-gaming matches in the Colorado area? Colorado Infinity
Mainly just want to get a better idea of what your boards and lists look like. Something isn't adding up so it'll help for suggestions.
Craftworld Uaire-Nem pics "Like shimmering daggers of light our fury shall rain down and cleanse this battlefield." Autarch of Uaire-Nem
BlueDagger's Nomad pics - "Morality, my friend, is merely a price tag." - BlueDagger, Contraband Dealer. Holo-recording played during the murder trial of an undercover PanOceania officer. Court Record 9002xaB, . Infinity Nomads - Come see what it's all about! |Looking for War-gaming matches in the Colorado area? Colorado Infinity
Mathieu Raymond wrote: The Bagh-Mari have, in my experience, very little staying power. Croc-Man I used to play but he gets killed (yes, even through TO and cover).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I could try the mines, but in the long run that's four more minis I have to buy.
But why are they dying so easily? You want to mainly use your bagh maris on your active turn. The sniper would be good for long range AROs but is still vulnerable to camo attacks. So keep them out of LOS during your opponents turn. With their visors and mimetism they should have a definite advantage in your active turn. If they are still dying in your active turn then that is just bad luck. And the croc's best defence is his camo status. Any skirmisher that is left revealed during your opponents turn is squishy, TO camo or not, especially if there a lot of big templates around. If he's still a marker your opponent has to burn orders to either try and discover or use an order to try an intuitive attack. And he can use his mines to at least try and take down anyone that tries to get close enough to use a template on him. Against lists with a lot of camo you have to accept that you are going to take some losses that there is not much you can do about. But you have to be prepared for that and try to minimise your losses and make them work hard for each kill. To be honest i wouldn't particularly want to learn the game against a list spaming camo, highlanders and dog warriors. Just think of it as learning the hard way!
Oh, and try proxying stuff instead of buying new things?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BlueDagger wrote: Next time you guys play take a pic of the board if you could please. If you could also provide the list you play and the list he plays we can try to analyze what is going on a lil better
What BD says. Its easy to speculate about what you are playing against, what sort of table you are playing on etc but you'll get much better advice if people can see what you're up against.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/10 02:31:00
I can tell you what geos wrong: I deploy like a 3 year old, apparently.
My Bagh-Mari have all died because I didn't have enough orders to do something productive with them, so I tried to hug cover and it did me a lot of fat good. The time was a bit more aggressive with one, he got his head blown off as soon as it poked out a hatch on a roof, trying to dislodge a camo dude. Pretty cinematic... wait a minute... is this 40K?
GamesWorkshop wrote: And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
Von Skyfury wrote: And you guys know infiltrators need to pass a PH roll if they want to deploy further than half the board right ?
12" deployment vs 24" deploy infiltrator = 12" distance between front liners and halfwaypoint deployed infiltrator.
Craftworld Uaire-Nem pics "Like shimmering daggers of light our fury shall rain down and cleanse this battlefield." Autarch of Uaire-Nem
BlueDagger's Nomad pics - "Morality, my friend, is merely a price tag." - BlueDagger, Contraband Dealer. Holo-recording played during the murder trial of an undercover PanOceania officer. Court Record 9002xaB, . Infinity Nomads - Come see what it's all about! |Looking for War-gaming matches in the Colorado area? Colorado Infinity
I can tell you what geos wrong: I deploy like a 3 year old, apparently.
My Bagh-Mari have all died because I didn't have enough orders to do something productive with them, so I tried to hug cover and it did me a lot of fat good. The time was a bit more aggressive with one, he got his head blown off as soon as it poked out a hatch on a roof, trying to dislodge a camo dude. Pretty cinematic... wait a minute... is this 40K?
From what you're saying its still difficult to tell what going on. So pictures and lists would definitely help. I'm confused how you can be simultaneously pinned in your deployment zone right from the off and then need to spend a lot of orders to take out his infiltrators? And what does he have that is pinning you down? Against a bagh mari/ nisse i don't think ariadna has any infiltrators that are that scary in ARO, except maybe the cateran sniper but he is still at a major disadvantage against a bagh mari in the active turn if it AROs. If he's generating multiple AROs and you're not able to move during your active turn to isolate them 1 on 1 then i would look at the terrain again.
I appreciate the thought...
... but that video is still cringe-worthy. I mean, the song is ok... but the 80s videos... oh my.
Like I said, I'm not giving up the game, I like Ironbovin too much and really, really cherish any time he can spend with me.
Von Skyfury, can you tell me where you got those objective cards? Adding a narrative element to the game might change things a bit, slow things down so to speak.
GamesWorkshop wrote: And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
I couldn't recommend YAMS more. It is a very good system that makes Infinity play the way it should be played. You will see that simple Annihillation missions are boring after playing a couple of YAMS. Also, YAMS gives you a chance to fulfil your objectives even if you are losing the shooting contest, something I have done many times.
Could not agree more! Please keep it up guys! bring him back into the game!
from memory; here is what our lists looked like:
Pan-O:
-spitfire Hexa
-2 Bagh mari
-2 auxiliary with bots
-HMG fusillier
-fusilliers filler (3?)
Ariadna:
-Grey with shotgun
-paracommando with rifle
-SAS with A.pistol
-Chasseur with rifle
-Chasseur with sniper
-kasak filler (3?)
The map was relatively packed, and there was no LOF across all the table.
The intense "pinned down" feeling came from the fact that my two chasseurs on rooftops covered his whole army between them, right from deployment. The sniper downed one guy, and scared his Hexa (passed armor, failed guts), the rifle chasseur downed one or two others. That was just his first turn.
One of the main reason why this game is hard to learn is that the random level is SOOOOO high. if you get kicked, it's hard to know if you made a mistake or simply were unlucky...
I am beginning to wonder if playing a few games with both players fielding EXACTLY the same list would not be a good teaching tool. With or without objective cards. That would remove the "it's not fair" feeling, as we both have the exact same figures, and it would maybe show a bit more what to do and what not to do with our troops.
Super, and a incredible way to add a narative to the game.
only one question, though:
If we deploy the crate and civvie on the center line; it creates two 16" randomly placed interdiction zones for the infiltrators... That pretty much kills the infiltrator skill, does it not? here is yet another ugly diagram (YAUD):
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Hadn't thought of that. It would, and at random, weird places because of the d20'' placement.
Are the ZoC of the Civvie and Crate essentially useless (or less useful) since they can't be interacted with in Turn 1 anyway?
It depends on the board size you are using.
Chemical printed off the YAMS cards, and that's pretty much what we used to play games until I had to take a break. They do make the game fun, but, personally, I've gotten a little frustrated with them when I have eliminated all but one unit and still end up losing. Of course, that's my fault for not paying more attention to my objectives, and terrible die rolls when I do.
But, back to the original question; No, I don't think either the Civvie or the Create are essentially useless. Maybe adjusting for board size could be considered.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/12 13:34:32
I didn't say they were useless, but that the ZoC around them was not as useful, since you can't interact with them.
Although it does seem like it counteracts Infiltrators a bit, my thought is that if there was something on the board that prevented deployment of those unit (impassable terrain, say) it would be the same thing, no?
GamesWorkshop wrote: And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
well, yes, but in this case, the two interdiction zone are IN ADDITION to any other impassable terrain, becasue i guess that the crate and civvie cannot be deployed there...
anyway, it was a minor point, but still...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/12 13:49:15
Now, we have been doing it wrong, but I definitely remember one game where my opponent deployed his infiltrator outside that ZoC and then was able to move into BtB contact with the crate on his turn.
Although, like I said, we may have been doing it wrong.
I think you can move up to it, but can't interact with it on first turn.
And yeah, I had assumed that there would be no impassable terrain elsewhere on the board. It's kinda rare on an urban battlefield. Even on stacks of books and cd towers.
GamesWorkshop wrote: And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
Personally I'm more of a fan of TAOS then YAMS. YAMS is great, don't get me wrong, but the fact that you can draw conflicting cards right off the bat can get a bit annoying in addition to some of the missions being incredibly hard vs incredibly easy.
IE: Sync with the civvie and keep it safe for the entire match vs you get points for the civvie dying by any means.
Craftworld Uaire-Nem pics "Like shimmering daggers of light our fury shall rain down and cleanse this battlefield." Autarch of Uaire-Nem
BlueDagger's Nomad pics - "Morality, my friend, is merely a price tag." - BlueDagger, Contraband Dealer. Holo-recording played during the murder trial of an undercover PanOceania officer. Court Record 9002xaB, . Infinity Nomads - Come see what it's all about! |Looking for War-gaming matches in the Colorado area? Colorado Infinity
BlueDagger wrote: Personally I'm more of a fan of TAOS then YAMS. YAMS is great, don't get me wrong, but the fact that you can draw conflicting cards right off the bat can get a bit annoying in addition to some of the missions being incredibly hard vs incredibly easy.
IE: Sync with the civvie and keep it safe for the entire match vs you get points for the civvie dying by any means.
TAOS?
You lost me there.
I'm guessing it is a mission system we can download...somewhere?
PANOCEANIA
2x REGULAR Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife (14 | 0.5)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:12 PH:10 WIP:13 ARM:0 BTS:0 W:1
BAGH-MARI MULTI Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife (34 | 1.5)
2x FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife (10)
CROC MAN Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife (34 | 0.5)
