Kaldor Draigo, Champion of Slaanesh?

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**Corporal_Reznov**

Unit1126PLL wrote:
KonTheory wrote:
This is doing exactly what the writer wants,
everyone is getting hyped, and the next thing thats going to be written is the grey knights side of things, and draigo is going to start a fight or something, and its just going to go back and forth and he will never be corrupted..

Or is corrupted and never knows/admits it . . .

which is another wonderful thing about 40k fluff - you CAN have it both ways!

Agreed!

**Garvy**

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
Unit1126PLL wrote:
KonTheory wrote:
This is doing exactly what the writer wants,
everyone is getting hyped, and the next thing thats going to be written is the grey knights side of things, and draigo is going to start a fight or something, and its just going to go back and forth and he will never be corrupted..

Or is corrupted and never knows/admits it . . .

which is another wonderful thing about 40k fluff - you CAN have it both ways!
Agreed!

Yep +1

**Omegus**

Psienesis wrote:
Dreadclaw69 wrote:
purplefood wrote:
How does this thread have 7 pages?

Because there were too many for 6 pages, and too few for 8 pages

Because this is 40K, let's see if we cannot crank it up to 11.

Personally, I kinda would prefer this to be Draigo, for a number of reasons.

One, up until recently, GK did not enjoy an auto-pass against the corruption of Chaos. They were resistant, yes, because of their special gifts, but it was their dedication and prayers and such, including dark rites and rituals, that kept them free from corruption. They weren't immune to it, they just knew the best ways to avoid it, and took the appropriate steps to ensure that they were as defended as possible from it... a virtual immunity, if you will, based on the lengths they were willing to go to ensure it. If this is Draigo, this brings the GK back down to a less-OTT level, and back into the grimdark.

Two, Slaanesh is the Chaos God of Perfection. As they say, pride goeth before the fall, and you can bet that Draigo's own human frailties, in this case, probably his ego, gave Slaanesh the "in" S/he needed to tempt him. One cannot strive for perfection without attracting Hir attention.

Three, it was hoped that Draigo would be the one to put paid to the Ruinous Powers themselves. As the saying goes, hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. Nietzsche warned about gazing into the abyss... I don't suppose he ever considered having to warn people not to leap willingly into it! He also warned that he who fights monsters must take care that he does not become a monster himself.

I strongly disagree, Grey Knights do not get an "auto-pass", hence [poorly written] stories like the Bloodtide that demonstrate what lengths they go to preserve themselves from the influence of Chaos.

Anyway, as much as the idea of Matthew's latest Marty Stu becoming Slaanesh's butt-boy amuses me, I reject the whole concept of Draigo dancing around in the Warp at all. Even Magnus was not capable of traveling the warp in his physical form, why should some punk-ass Space Marine do so? Like in every other instance of exposure to pure warp energy, Draigo was flayed alive. All the tall tales of his supposed exploits in the Warp are just that, Chapter legends. Him manifesting on the battlefield is no more than a psychic echo, like the ghost knights of that other grand master, or Sanguinor, etc.

**Selym**

Omegus wrote:
Psienesis wrote:
Dreadclaw69 wrote:
purplefood wrote:
How does this thread have 7 pages?

Because there were too many for 6 pages, and too few for 8 pages

Because this is 40K, let's see if we cannot crank it up to 11.

Personally, I kinda would prefer this to be Draigo, for a number of reasons.

One, up until recently, GK did not enjoy an auto-pass against the corruption of Chaos. They were resistant, yes, because of their special gifts, but it was their dedication and prayers and such, including dark rites and rituals, that kept them free from corruption. They weren't immune to it, they just knew the best ways to avoid it, and took the appropriate steps to ensure that they were as defended as possible from it... a virtual immunity, if you will, based on the lengths they were willing to go to ensure it. If this is Draigo, this brings the GK back down to a less-OTT level, and back into the grimdark.

Two, Slaanesh is the Chaos God of Perfection. As they say, pride goeth before the fall, and you can bet that Draigo's own human frailties, in this case, probably his ego, gave Slaanesh the "in" S/he needed to tempt him. One cannot strive for perfection without attracting Hir attention.

Three, it was hoped that Draigo would be the one to put paid to the Ruinous Powers themselves. As the saying goes, hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. Nietzsche warned about gazing into the abyss... I don't suppose he ever considered having to warn people not to leap willingly into it! He also warned that he who fights monsters must take care that he does not become a monster himself.

I strongly disagree, Grey Knights do not get an "auto-pass", hence [poorly written] stories like the Bloodtide that demonstrate what lengths they go to preserve themselves from the influence of Chaos.

Anyway, as much as the idea of Matthew's latest Marty Stu becoming Slaanesh's butt-boy amuses me, I reject the whole concept of Draigo dancing around in the Warp at all. Even Magnus was not capable of traveling the warp in his physical form, why should some punk-ass Space Marine do so? Like in every other instance of exposure to pure warp energy, Draigo was flayed alive. All the tall tales of his supposed exploits in the Warp are just that, Chapter legends. Him manifesting on the battlefield is no more than a psychic echo, like the ghost knights of that other grand master, or Sanguinor, etc.

Seems fair enough to me.
Though 'ol Wardy probably didn't intend for that to be the "truth" of Draigo... (But screw it, who cares!

One way he gets flayed alive, the other, he becomes the new butt-boy of Slaanesh

)

**Popenfresh**

This has already been mentioned in the threat but I feel it's necessary to point this out again.

I don't understand why some GK fanboys are so staunchly opposed to the possibility that the Grey Knights might not be as completely infallible as Mr. Ward makes them out to be.

Characters are likable not in spite of their flaws but because of them.

If Grey Knights can be corrupted but the fact they haven't been so far is all the more a testament to their faith and strength of character.

If it required no effort at all from them to shrug off any attempted moral or physical corruption then why the hell should I care about what happens to any of them anyway?

Part of what defines a "hero" are the challenges they have to overcome. However, if the writer just hands over worfs to you so you can effortlessly show off how awesome you are, it sucks out all the likeability and sympathy I might have for any main character.

A more formidable opponent and threatening challenge will make their struggle all the more meaningful and remarkable.

Also:

Spoiler:

**Selym**

Popenfresh wrote:
This has already been mention in the threat but I feel it's necessary to point this out again.

I don't understand why some GK fanboys are so staunchly opposed to the possibility that the Grey Knights might not be as completely infallible as Mr. Ward makes them out to be.

Characters are likable not in spite of their flaws but because of them.

If Grey Knights can be corrupted but the fact they haven't been so far is all the more a testament to their faith and strength of character.

If it required no effort at all from them to shrug off any attempted moral or physical corruption then why the hell should I care about what happens to any of them anyway?

Part of what defines a "hero" is the challenges they have to overcome. However, if the writer just hands over worfs to you so you can effortlessly show off how awesome you are, it sucks out all the likeability and sympathy I might have for any main character.

A more formidable opponent and threatening challenge will make their struggle all the more meaningful and remarkable.

Also:

Spoiler:

+1

**AlmightyWalrus**

Popenfresh wrote:
This has already been mention in the threat but I feel it's necessary to point this out again.

I don't understand why some GK fanboys are so staunchly opposed to the possibility that the Grey Knights might not be as completely infallible as Mr. Ward makes them out to be.

Probably for the same reason that GK haters ignore the fact that the Daemon Codex states that no Grey Knight has fallen. Both sides are dumb.

Your argument is true, though.

**DarthMarko**

Am I the only one who thinks that repairing the bad fluff only makes it worse???

**Selym**

DarthMarko wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks that repairing the bad fluff only makes it worse???

Depends how you define "repairing bad fluff".

**DarthMarko**

Selym wrote:
DarthMarko wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks that repairing the bad fluff only makes it worse???

Depends how you define "repairing bad fluff".

You know counter balancing, one author writes some bad stuff, then the second author explains it as some alternative.....

**Popenfresh**

The difference being, the Chaos fluff is suggestive and open to interpretation (as 40k fluff should be) whereas Wards's fluff sounds more like a 7 year old's fanwank.

**Selym**

Popenfresh wrote:
The difference being, the Chaos fluff is suggestive and open to interpretation (as 40k fluff should be) whereas Wards's fluff sounds more like a 7 year old's fanwank.

Yup. When reading about chaos fluff, you get an "artists impression" of things. You know that these could be the insane whispers of Slaanesh, an accurate reporting by an Inquisitor, or a corrupted data-log. Anything can be read into these things.

Ward presents his "fluff" as the only true cannon, and that everything must be good for his new favourite army.

**Blackcrusader**

But how is that possible they have the dreaded shield of matt ward fluff writing that makes them incorruptible. JK

In all honesty though you might be right.

**Georgefancy**

He is a follower of Slaanesh. Just watch...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfJUi4cB4oc

Video belongs to Flashgitzanimation

**Gabrial Seth**

thenoobbomb wrote:
Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
My bet is that this is Lucius.

Makes more sense.

thats what i was thinking

**Robbo97**

Georgefancy wrote:
He is a follower of Slaanesh. Just watch...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfJUi4cB4oc

Video belongs to Flashgitzanimation

love this vid haha

**TiamatRoar**

I don't know if anyone brought it up yet, but the astartes in that fluff piece goes through several temptation trials that a grey knight probably wouldn't go through. For one thing, if I recall correctly (my memory could be wrong), there's a time where he's PUBLICALLY CONGRATULATED IN FRONT OF A ROARING CROWD by the high lords of Terra. The grey knights are a secretive organization that isn't even supposed to officially exist, thus an actual grey knight would never run into a temptation like this.

At another time, he's tempted by visions of his past life BEFORE HE BECAME AN ASTARTES. Grey Knights have their memories of their lives before becoming astartes wiped specifically so they never have to face this sort of temptation against Chaos. I'll admit that this deep in Slaanesh's realm, it's possible that Slaanesh managed to rekindle these memories, but that's kind of a stretch and even if it were true, you'd think that astartes would have realized something was odd when he was suddenly recalling memories that were supposed to have been wiped clean from his brain.

In the end, it probably isn't a grey knight, unless the fluff writers screwed up (which admittingly is possible).

**Selym**

TiamatRoar wrote:
I don't know if anyone brought it up yet, but the astartes in that fluff piece goes through several temptation trials that a grey knight probably wouldn't go through. For one thing, if I recall correctly (my memory could be wrong), there's a time where he's PUBLICALLY CONGRATULATED IN FRONT OF A ROARING CROWD by the high lords of Terra. The grey knights are a secretive organization that isn't even supposed to officially exist, thus an actual grey knight would never run into a temptation like this.

At another time, he's tempted by visions of his past life BEFORE HE BECAME AN ASTARTES. Grey Knights have their memories of their lives before becoming astartes wiped specifically so they never have to face this sort of temptation against Chaos. I'll admit that this deep in Slaanesh's realm, it's possible that Slaanesh managed to rekindle these memories, but that's kind of a stretch and even if it were true, you'd think that astartes would have realized something was odd when he was suddenly recalling memories that were supposed to have been wiped clean from his brain.

In the end, it probably isn't a grey knight, unless the fluff writers screwed up (which admittingly is possible).

It's not about what the GK would actually go through, it's about what he wants when he's in the gardens of slaanesh.
IMO, it's showing that Draigo was feling quite proud of his achievements, and wanted acknowledgement, rather than just being a footnote in the IOM's archives.
Bearing in mind this is the warp, the bit about seeing his past life could still happen. Just because Draigo doesn't remember it, doesn't mean the warp wont show it to him. It may have triggered a recall of his memories, and then had an effect on him. As for thinking it was odd, Draigo was in the warp, and had been for a while. He'd probably already lost all sense of reality and reason, just like when you're in a dream, you don't question the fact that there's a giant bunny eating godzilla, who's on fire and reciting your fictional history.

**Alfndrate**

If you read the Emperor's Gift, the main character of the novel has flashes of his childhood before he became a Grey Knight, it's never much, but he does remember pieces, enough pieces in fact...

Spoiler:

.

So it's possible for a Grey Knight to remember bits and pieces of his childhood, it's probably just really rare, and something that the majority of them don't dwell on. Actually there's a fantastic line in Mark of Calth where someone writes about the Legiones Astartes and their past, it's in reference to the Space Marines being simply weapons, but it's a good quote nonetheless.

Mark of Calth, page 293 wrote:To rise into the ranks of the Legiones Astartes means casting all else aside. You family is dead. Your youth is meaningless. As far as the galaxy is concerned, you were never born. You forfeit any lingering pretensions of humanity.

I was also going to include a point about Argel Tal remembering his childhood, as well as Talos from the Night Lords Trilogy...

Actually the more I think about this, the more it seems that Aaron Dembski-Bowden is trying to inject the idea that we as readers seem to forget is that these Astartes were once humans, he makes his Space Marines as human as I've seen... seems strange.

**JWhex**

Popenfresh wrote:
The difference being, the Chaos fluff is suggestive and open to interpretation (as 40k fluff should be) whereas Wards's fluff sounds more like a 7 year old's fanwank.

Which is why people should just ignore his stuff.

**Gabrial Seth**

We march of matt ward and shall know no game balance.

It is good for Space Marines to feel human, makes them easier to connect to.

**daedalus-templarius**

Well, this totally changes how I have to finish the series of pictures I've been working on...