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Made in us
Powerful Ushbati





Manhatten, KS

 Dozer Blades wrote:
@ TK - I like your list because it has some real character (e.g., evil daemon prince) and is not bland like we see sometimes on the top tables.


Thanks, the prince is definitely a wrecking ball to swing at opposing armies. I should have picture up of the entire come early april. Getting them painted up now.

TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)

TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)

TK- 2014 to Date: http://www.torrentoffire.com/rankings 
   
Made in us
Psychic Novitiate selected by a Gatherer



indianapolis. in

Surveys went out. If you haven't filled one out please do so.

Thanks Spaguatyrine
   
Made in us
Powerful Ushbati





Manhatten, KS

spaguatyrine wrote:
Surveys went out. If you haven't filled one out please do so.

Thanks Spaguatyrine


Dont have it... did you send to the right email?

TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)

TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)

TK- 2014 to Date: http://www.torrentoffire.com/rankings 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut



Berlin

Thanks for the effort with the reports - I enjoyed them tremendously.
Just one questio - why is the Daemon Prince Tzeentch and not Nurgle? Seems that Tzeentch helps against small arms fire, but Nurgle would help much more against the bigger stuff.
Any particular reason you went for Tzeentch?

Cheers, M.
   
Made in be
Deranged Necron Destroyer






Nurgle = Slow & Purposfull = the suck!!

You have ruled this galaxy for ten thousand years
Yet have little of account to show for your efforts
Order. Unity. Obedience.
We taught the galaxy these things

And we shall do so again.

4500 pts


 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut



Berlin

Right, forgot about that ...
Thanks.
   
Made in us
Powerful Ushbati





Manhatten, KS

Mutter wrote:
Thanks for the effort with the reports - I enjoyed them tremendously.
Just one questio - why is the Daemon Prince Tzeentch and not Nurgle? Seems that Tzeentch helps against small arms fire, but Nurgle would help much more against the bigger stuff.
Any particular reason you went for Tzeentch?

Cheers, M.


Actually the main reason is small arms fire is the leading cause of death for just about any mc. With so many armies out there swapping more shots for less ap it seems pretty legit to improve my save by that much more. In addition, nurgle doesnt help me in combat or when making grounding saves. Tzeentch does...

You can see in two of my games I got +1 AS.. Giving the prince a re-rollable 2+ save.

TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)

TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)

TK- 2014 to Date: http://www.torrentoffire.com/rankings 
   
Made in us
Powerful Ushbati





Manhatten, KS

Ouch! My training for tomorrow got canceled but as such there is no way I can get cleared and too Adepticon before a 0900 Champs SP time. Never seen a GT start on a Thursday Morning. :( Came close to making the event. Best of luck to all involved.

TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)

TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)

TK- 2014 to Date: http://www.torrentoffire.com/rankings 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

That's too bad. It would've been fun to see how the Ugly Misfits fare against other top-notch talent once again.

Maybe I'll try to make it to Adepticon next year. Or Nova.





6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Fickle Fury of Chaos



Vt

Nice series of games! A lot of fun to read. Seeing some of those scenarios and the decisions you made reminds me how far I have to go in the world of 40k.

You mentioned that Daemons get crushed by Grey Knights now, in an earlier post, TK, and I'd be interested to know what Grey Knights lists you're thinking about. I've faced termie spam a decent number of times with my version of the MTO list and I have never felt that the advantages my opponent has against my Daemons outweighed the advantages they have against him.

For reference, my list (at 2k; I also posted this in your list building thread a while back) is the following:

BT (Big Threat) List w/ CSM Allies
Fateweaver: 300pts
Lord of Change w/ Exalted Reward, Greater Reward: 280pts
CSM Daemon Prince w/ Daemon of Tzeentch, Wings, Armor, Black Mace: 265pts
5 Chaos Space Marines w/ Melta Gun, 3 regs have CCW replacing boltgun: 85pts
w/ Chaos Rhino: 35pts
2*10 Pink Horrors: 180pts
Helldrake w/ Baleflamer: 170pts
3* Soul Grinders w/ Tzeentch, Phlegm Bombardment: 510pts
Forgefiend: 175pts

1999+1pts

I'm afraid I don't have his termie spam list memorized. It's Terminators, Paladins, 2-3 Psyfleman Dreadnoughts, and 0-1 Dreadknights depending on how he's tooled it out at any given point. My list tends to do quit well because of the amount of maneuverable AP 2 that I have access to, and I've found his anti-psyker defenses to be less effective against the few Psykers I have because of the +3 leadership modifier that Tzeentch daemons get for casting (meaning, even against that Aegis, my guys are still only casting at a -1 penalty). He's mentioned bringing Null Rod (I assume inquisitors are the only ones who can get it? I can't find it anywhere else in the codex) to counter my Bolt of Change, but I don't see that as being an unstoppable upgrade against the list above. Is there some other non-termie Grey Knights list that's more prevalent today and massacres Daemons left and right? Honestly, it was the termies that looked scariest to me, as AP3 is even more prevalent in my list and the only thing that I seem to bounce off of is AV14 spam, which I don't seem to see much of in Grey Knights.

 
   
Made in us
Powerful Ushbati





Manhatten, KS

zamnath wrote:
Nice series of games! A lot of fun to read. Seeing some of those scenarios and the decisions you made reminds me how far I have to go in the world of 40k.

You mentioned that Daemons get crushed by Grey Knights now, in an earlier post, TK, and I'd be interested to know what Grey Knights lists you're thinking about. I've faced termie spam a decent number of times with my version of the MTO list and I have never felt that the advantages my opponent has against my Daemons outweighed the advantages they have against him.

For reference, my list (at 2k; I also posted this in your list building thread a while back) is the following:

BT (Big Threat) List w/ CSM Allies
Fateweaver: 300pts
Lord of Change w/ Exalted Reward, Greater Reward: 280pts
CSM Daemon Prince w/ Daemon of Tzeentch, Wings, Armor, Black Mace: 265pts
5 Chaos Space Marines w/ Melta Gun, 3 regs have CCW replacing boltgun: 85pts
w/ Chaos Rhino: 35pts
2*10 Pink Horrors: 180pts
Helldrake w/ Baleflamer: 170pts
3* Soul Grinders w/ Tzeentch, Phlegm Bombardment: 510pts
Forgefiend: 175pts

1999+1pts

I'm afraid I don't have his termie spam list memorized. It's Terminators, Paladins, 2-3 Psyfleman Dreadnoughts, and 0-1 Dreadknights depending on how he's tooled it out at any given point. My list tends to do quit well because of the amount of maneuverable AP 2 that I have access to, and I've found his anti-psyker defenses to be less effective against the few Psykers I have because of the +3 leadership modifier that Tzeentch daemons get for casting (meaning, even against that Aegis, my guys are still only casting at a -1 penalty). He's mentioned bringing Null Rod (I assume inquisitors are the only ones who can get it? I can't find it anywhere else in the codex) to counter my Bolt of Change, but I don't see that as being an unstoppable upgrade against the list above. Is there some other non-termie Grey Knights list that's more prevalent today and massacres Daemons left and right? Honestly, it was the termies that looked scariest to me, as AP3 is even more prevalent in my list and the only thing that I seem to bounce off of is AV14 spam, which I don't seem to see much of in Grey Knights.


I would have to say that purifiers and even shrikes can preform well against daemons. They have better deny the witch roles. Preferred enemy against daemons. Force weapons that auto-kill your multi-wound daemons. I am not a big fan of the soul grinders as they are just expensive battle tanks in your army. A leman russ has better armor, longer range, and is only 150pts. Also the list only has 3 really soft troops at 2000pts. The list does have some threats in it but I feel like they dont exactely jive together. The CSM daemon prince is tough but he is built for combat when the rest of your army is built for shooting. You only have 2 or 3 units that actually want to assault anything. Not counting the grinders as usually a melta-gun keeps them at a distance.

TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)

TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)

TK- 2014 to Date: http://www.torrentoffire.com/rankings 
   
Made in us
Fickle Fury of Chaos



Vt

Am I missing somewhere where the Purifiers have a better Deny the Witch than other units in the Grey Knights codex? 5+ DTW has proven to be annoying but not amazing to me, and a regular Aegis still leaves my Horrors casting at LD 9 (7-1+3) and my GDs at LD 10 (9-1+3). Purifiers have 3+s, too, which like going up against Soul Grinders significantly less than the 2+ Termies and Paladins have. I've considered that Purifiers might be more frightening offensively per point, due to psybolt ammo on Storm Bolters on relatively cheaper platforms, but that still only works as a legitimate threat against my non-vehicles.

The Soul Grinders have actually been performing admirably for me. A Leman Russ is cheaper and more shooty, sure, but it's not a walker and it doesn't have a 5+ invuln save re-rolling ones (the Grinder gets edged out with abilitiy to abuse cover because the Russ is easier to hide, but the Grinder has a better save when it is in cover, and the Russ can never hide itself from shooting by locking itself in assault). I don't recall hearing that Russes have the ability to ignore shaken/stunned results, either. As Daemons, my Soul Grinders are also legitimate targets for my Grimoire, when I bring it, and they become pretty insanely hard to kill whenever the +1 to invulns gets rolled on the warp storm table (usually early, while Fatey's still alive). Throw a grimoire on a Grinder and he's not that scared of charging at a melta unit. Only about one in fiveish glance/pens will have any effect on him, at that point, or 1 in 36 if you can get him down to a 2+ invuln. I'd say that, when placed in the proper list, a Soul Grinder is nearly as good or better than a Russ. There's a lot of potential support that the list I mentioned can throw onto any given model at critical moments.

The point of the Daemon Prince is, specifically, to provide close combat and anti-horde support. In a lot of games I've used it similar to the way you used yours in your last game, annihilating one particularly dangerous target in a suicide attack and then soaking up some of the next turn's firepower/baiting. Nothing else I have is particularly adept at that sort of maneuver, other than (maybe) my Lord of Change, so the Daemon Prince provides tactical flexibility. Maybe my gaming group plays with too much big, LOS blocking terrain, but I have yet to lose any of my original scoring units in my 6+ games with this specific list. Three anemic troops stinks, certainly, but I can take great advantage of reserves with them (especially with Fateweaver's re-roll) and, if the scenario really seems to demand better scoring troops, I can always switch Grimoire out for Portalglyph to give me (effectively) 4+ scorers a game. I've considered switching out the CSM w/ Rhino for two 10 man Cultist units and some points to spend elsewhere, but I have yet to ever need that extra scoring unit. Grey Knights, especially, just don't seem to have the extra firepower to waste on troops turn 2+ when I have ~5 vehicles with decent armor and invuln saves and 3 monstrous creatures in their face.

I dunno. Sorry to hijack your thread. I just don't think you're giving Daemons proper credit against Grey Knights and, to a certain extent, in general, too. They've got some bad matchups and they'll struggle to beat the very best lists consistently, but I think we're going to see them proving to be pretty high up there competitively.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/18 06:14:43


 
   
 
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